Author Topic: Ergo-Clear questions...  (Read 34141 times)

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 06:28:52 »
For some reason, this is how my ergoclears sound like. (if anyone is interested - this is the mp3 file. listen for the initial click of (belonging to a logitech g9x) as a guide to see how loud your speakers should be). http://www.filedropper.com/dscf0478

They sound similar to mine :)

Offline Larken

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 06:31:46 »
Good to know Jocelyn. I thought it was the acrylic plate in the ergodox and DSA caps, cuz my filco browns' clacking bottom out sounds really unpleasant in comparison.



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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 06:38:24 »
When I put only oil inside that one center hole at the bottom, it greatly dampens the bottom-out noise. Of course it has to be high viscosity oil. Slider was still lubed with grease/oil mixture. And if you use only oil on everything, it'll also reduce some of the noise from the keys popping back up.

Offline Larken

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 07:09:19 »
When I put only oil inside that one center hole at the bottom, it greatly dampens the bottom-out noise. Of course it has to be high viscosity oil.

I actually skipped the center holes for almost all my switches.  I'll try that when I lube the other set. When you say high viscosity oil, are you using krytox 103 for that?

Just to be clear, by 'putting oil inside the center hole', you mean the way you brush a coat of oil into the opening (like in your lubing video), and not actually squeezing a drop of oil into the hole.

And if you use only oil on everything, it'll also reduce some of the noise from the keys popping back up.

I assume you're referring to just using 103 on everything (including sliders) as a alternate method from mixing it with a grease?

@ Aranair, pm sent.
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Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 07:17:48 »
I believe he is talking Victorinox for the center holes. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #55 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 07:26:12 »
I actually skipped the center holes for almost all my switches.  I'll try that when I lube the other set. When you say high viscosity oil, are you using krytox 103 for that?

Just to be clear, by 'putting oil inside the center hole', you mean the way you brush a coat of oil into the opening (like in your lubing video), and not actually squeezing a drop of oil into the hole.

All oil means victorinox on the center hole, full spring, and that one center part of the switch stem that sticks out (the part that inserts into the bottom center hole). Then krytox 103 on sliders.

Yeah when you put oil in that center hole, just brush the excess on there, a drop is way too much. You can experiment around with it, but you'll notice that if you put too much in that hole, it'll actually make a small pop noise, similar to something sticky or a bubble popping. So it ends up being more noisy if you put too much.

Offline Larken

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 07:28:22 »
Ah, got it. Thanks, VesperSAINT and WFD.
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Offline Aranair

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 08:51:27 »
man, I'll never have imagined oiling that hole would* change the sound @@..

And now that I'm abit more into the lubed feeling, I bought a Poker 2 that I must desolder before I can lube ):
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 May 2013, 08:56:30 by Aranair »

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 05 June 2013, 21:47:41 »
I have a follow-up question to this discussion.

I've had the pleasure of playing with 4 Clear switches, thanks to Jocelyn, and I've been swapping in 55g and 62g springs and trying them out.  So from my observations, the bump on the Clears is very extended.  It feels like a period of extended resistance.  Lighter springs accentuate this bump, making it feel longer when the switch is popping back up.  Thus that sticky feeling.  I was definitely getting it with 55g springs (so I didn't like them at all in the Clears), and somewhat with 62g springs too.  Stock springs feel most responsive in terms of a faster downward stroke and the fastest response of the switches popping back up into reset position. 

So anyway, this made me frustrated with Clears: at stock, they are kind of clanky, not quiet, and have this weird unfriendly bump (vs a faster more defined bump in Browns and Blues). 

My question is: how does proper lubrication change this?  Is the bump still very long?  It's going to make the switches reset faster, right?  I don't know how to improvise lubrication, as I don't have anything on-hand right now, beyond WD-40 and petroleum jelly.  I plan on getting some more proper lube, at least starting with Super Lube. 

What I was hoping to get with Clears was a more defined quick bump (rubber-dome style, but obviously not at the top)--not a longer frictiony bump.  But I got the latter with the enhanced bump over Browns. 
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Offline Larken

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 06 June 2013, 01:02:36 »
Quick questions - before I give you a proper answer:

1. How are you testing your modded clear switches? Mounted on a plate/pcb? Or just putting a keycap on a switch hanging free and pressing that one switch down?

2. In normal usage of your current board e.g. typing, gaming (and not a situation where you are actively trying to feel for the bump) - are the bumps in the mx browns you have just right, or do they actually start to feel linear to you?

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 06 June 2013, 01:12:57 »
Thanks!

1. I mounted the switches into a wooden block in a WASD cluster.  I also tried individual switches held firmly by large pliers resting on my desk to imitate plate mounting.  I have tried them by just holding in my hands too.

2.  No my browns don't feel linear.  In fact I dislike MX Reds for being linear and boring and too light.  I like vintage MX Black.  Those are distinctly linear, even those that Ive tried with a lot of friction (unworn brand new MX Blacks). My Browns don't have much friction, luckily, vs my first board with Browns, and the bump has a light rounded feeling when pressing down quickly.  Slowly--it's more rubbing/with more friction, but still, I feel the bump well.

I guess the best way I can compare Clears with Browns would be by noting that the bump in Clears feels like pressing down a Brown switch slowly, and the effect being magnified a bit.
« Last Edit: Thu, 06 June 2013, 01:15:35 by Photoelectric »
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Offline Larken

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 06 June 2013, 02:00:23 »
Whatever I can tell you would be rather very subjective, with exception to your question about lube.

I have experienced the same sticking feeling with 55g ergoclears on the upstroke that you described , and while lube does help, it doesn't totally get rid of the problem on 55g springs.


Here's the basics -
for ergo clears - the lighter the spring, the larger the bump. Therefore lighter spring = more tactility, where more tactility = larger bump (or in your words, a 'longer' bump)
lube decreases tactility.

so yes, lubing will indeed reduce the bump in ergoclears - but the I wouldn't say it makes it a 'shorter' bump. The more accurate term would be that it makes the bump smoother (which of course means there's less tactility).  So yes, by lubing and using heavier springs, the tactility can be decreased to a point where it is sharper, but keep in mind that the substantial bump in the ergoclear switch is what most people who aim for when performing the mod, so that wouldn't go away too much. Whether it suits you in the end is a question only you can answer after trying them out.

Imo, if you don't mind heavier switches, try 62gs lubed, then try 65gs or even panda clears. The heavier the spring, the smaller the bump, the 'quicker' it should feel.

If you're looking for light variants with a quick bump - you're out of luck with ergoclears. You could try ordering some korean 45g springs and swapping them into browns instead. The same theory should apply, if the korean 45gs are lighter than the default cherry 45gs. (please note I haven't done this mod myself yet (nor do I have any 45g springs at). Its an idea I plan to try in the future, so take this with a pinch of salt).





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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 06 June 2013, 02:04:29 »
Thank you.  Someone recommended MX White with a lighter spring.  I should try that--maybe that will be more what I'm looking for.
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Offline raspiguy

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 18:32:40 »
Okay, I just finished swapping springs for a bunch of clears with 55g LL springs from Calavera's GB and this thing I keep hearing about ergo clears sticking with light springs seems to be untrue or at least exaggerated a little. The 55g LL springs actuate at around 40-42g (lower than reds/browns/blues)...

If you're looking for light variants with a quick bump - you're out of luck with ergoclears. You could try ordering some korean 45g springs and swapping them into browns instead. The same theory should apply, if the korean 45gs are lighter than the default cherry 45gs. (please note I haven't done this mod myself yet (nor do I have any 45g springs at). Its an idea I plan to try in the future, so take this with a pinch of salt).

Pretty telling remarks between these two comments, for brown-switch-preferring n00bs like me (without any equipment or component supplies) that are spending time researching the 'ergo-clear game' without realistically considering either what they're getting into or what they're really after / how little sense it might make for one's true preferences.

One thing I can't help but note -- even with the direct answers to the OP (which made perfect sense at first) and all the other spring-related specifics -- is just how difficult it is to keep track of the different spring references.  Would've been nice to read this thread with full actuation/bottom-out metrics provided throughout (e.g. "40act/55btm").

Still not clear on where, if anywhere, these 40g-actuation springs (first referred to as "55g LL", later referred to as "50g LL" when "55g 5S" came into the picture, and lastly referred to (by Larken) I think as "45g") can be purchased for potential future mods of / experimentation with browns.  Or maybe blues...  Hoping WFD's Universal Plate GB comes back for round two sometime soon for those that missed it so that I can get into this modding, "sans-lube/desoldering".

Larken, if you were hypothetically decided on & all set to try this 40g-actuation brown switch mod and were placing an order for the springs tomorrow, what and from where would you be buying them?  Jocelyn was talking about a GB, so unless that comes back, there doesn't seem to be a clear avenue for people looking to stock up / give it a try in the future.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:12:53 »
Has anyone tried the 45 G springs in the clears yet, does it come back up with no problem?

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:14:46 »
Has anyone tried the 45 G springs in the clears yet, does it come back up with no problem?

45g as in stock red/blue/brown springs? If so, I've had no problems but mine were lubed with Krytox mix.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:18:24 »
Has anyone tried the 45 G springs in the clears yet, does it come back up with no problem?

45g as in stock red/blue/brown springs? If so, I've had no problems but mine were lubed with Krytox mix.

no, the super special 45g that they sold out of from the GB, I think sherry also sells them now

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:18:57 »
Raspiguy, I'll tackle your question a little later. I'm not at home right now.

Has anyone tried the 45 G springs in the clears yet, does it come back up with no problem?
Bottom or actuation force?

no, the super special 45g that they sold out of from the GB, I think sherry also sells them now

I have a few that WFD gave me (Both 45g and 45g(50g) from Calavera). I think they stick aka do not reset, but I'll check again for sure when I get home.
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:24:25 by Jocelyn »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:19:28 »
Raspiguy, I'll tackle your question a little later. I'm not at home right now.

Has anyone tried the 45 G springs in the clears yet, does it come back up with no problem?
Bottom or actuation force?

bottom

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:20:49 »
Has anyone tried the 45 G springs in the clears yet, does it come back up with no problem?

I doubt theses would be very good. I sometimes have sticking issues with the 55g kirkle clears I have in my poker now.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:23:02 »
Has anyone tried the 45 G springs in the clears yet, does it come back up with no problem?

I doubt theses would be very good. I sometimes have sticking issues with the 55g kirkle clears I have in my poker now.

Whats kirkle

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:25:58 »
a very special kind of ergo-clears
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Offline Sifo

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:26:45 »
Kirkle Clears are very nice, however I still prefer my 62g #goldsprings.
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Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:26:49 »
a very special kind of ergo-clears

:))

Kirkle Clears are very nice, however I still prefer my 62g #goldsprings.

You and your gold spring promotion ~  >:D I'ma come and rob you and all your eva shirts.


Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #75 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:31:20 »
Both 45g and 45g(50g) from Calavera's GB are too light imo, lubed or not. 50g LL, which actuate at around 40-42g, are what I'll be using for my GH60.

PS - raspiguy, this should clear up some of the confusion. There is no 55g LL, meaning I made a typo.
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:32:54 by Jocelyn »

Offline calavera

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:38:39 »
Generally Korean modders don't recommend anything lower than 50g for clears. Anything above that and you should be clear, no pun intended. ;)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:39:52 »
Both 45g and 45g(50g) from Calavera's GB are too light imo, lubed or not. 50g LL, which actuate at around 40-42g, are what I'll be using for my GH60.

PS - raspiguy, this should clear up some of the confusion. There is no 55g LL, meaning I made a typo.
Show Image


so they don't pop back up?? What's happens

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #78 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 19:45:40 »
Generally Korean modders don't recommend anything lower than 50g for clears. Anything above that and you should be clear, no pun intended. ;)

This^  45 and 45g(50g) are not sticking for me (They pop back up fine), but it's simply too much tactility. Of course this is nothing more than my opinion :)

Offline Larken

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 21:31:07 »
that's a little disappointing, though not unexpected. thanks for trying it, Jocelyn.
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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 21:34:12 »
that's a little disappointing, though not unexpected. thanks for trying it, Jocelyn.

WFD only sent me three of each and while there isn't any sticking or reset problems, I don't like how it feels. It's like a big huge mountain of a bump on the way down :)

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #81 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 21:36:57 »
that's a little disappointing, though not unexpected. thanks for trying it, Jocelyn.

WFD only sent me three of each and while there isn't any sticking or reset problems, I don't like how it feels. It's like a big huge mountain of a bump on the way down :)

Oh wow... this might appeal to me :))

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #82 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 21:50:21 »
Too light, and the way up when the switch is resetting feels like it takes too long.  It slows down on the bump part.  Hence the sticky feeling.  It's most responsive with stock springs, but the lighter you go, the more difficult it is for the spring to overcome the bump and reset the switch.  Lubrication helps, I'm sure, but you still can't go too light without the bump becoming cumbersome and slowing down switching between keypresses.  Without lubrication, I found 62g Korean springs (~2g heavier than springs in Reds/Browns/Blues) to be the minimum I would be comfortable with. 
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Offline Larken

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #83 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 21:53:11 »
Its more the bump on the way up that bothers me on ergoclears. But I'll still probably try it anyway, once kbdmod restocks the 45gs. If all things fail, super light browns!

@raspiguy, sorry I missed your post the first time. lack of coffee.

I agree about the springs labelling getting confusing at a certain point, but Jocelyn's posting of the pic from Furuya cleared it up pretty well.

To make things clear - pun unintended - all springs I'll be referring to would be korean springs based on bottom out (largely because the stock mx springs are already 'well documented', so to speak).

Calculating actuation is a iffy way to go about it, as the tactile bumps on mx stems does add force required to actuation (compared to linear stems). Actuation force with a clear stem would differ from that with a red stem. But in the contained topic that is ergoclears alone, I am thankful that someone (Jocelyn) took the trouble to measure actuation. Though I'd stick to the bottom out measurements in the picture for reference.

When I say 45g, I mean the 45gs in the picture, from korea. Not the cherry mx 45g springs, or any other variant.

The 45gs I'm planning on getting would be via a proxy, though it should be mentioned that kbdmod themselves doesn't have stock for these as of now. I notice originative has these in stock, so if you're interested, you could probably get it from there.

@Jocelyn - any chance of some nickel tests with the 45g springs? :D There's some hearsay that it actuates at 30g, if true, it would make for a very nice light touch switch.
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 June 2013, 22:08:42 by Larken »
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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 23:06:00 »
Yes I can do that Larken. FWIW I've been doing all coin actuation measurements with black stems. I feel there would be too many uncontrolled variables using clear stems, the most uncontrolled being how used or bent the leaf is.

Edit - Can't find my black stems, but I'll look more tomorrow.
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 June 2013, 23:18:21 by Jocelyn »

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #85 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 23:25:20 »
Testing actuation with linear switches are ok, but like Larken mentioned, it's very hard to get accurate actuation with tactile switches. Especially using nickels is a terrible method for tactile switches because this method is a static standstill until you overcome the friction of the stem and inner rails of the switch. Right at the tactile part, there is more friction to overcome, so it'll require more nickels overcome the threshold. Under real typing conditions, no one stops right at the tactile bump, then start typing again.

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 23:27:58 »
Testing actuation with linear switches are ok, but like Larken mentioned, it's very hard to get accurate actuation with tactile switches. Especially using nickels is a terrible method for tactile switches because this method is a static standstill until you overcome the friction of the stem and inner rails of the switch. Right at the tactile part, there is more friction to overcome, so it'll require more nickels overcome the threshold. Under real typing conditions, no one stops right at the tactile bump, then start typing again.

Umm I agree. This is why I do it with linear stems as mentioned above. All of my nickel actuation tests have been done with black stems ;)

#Vintageblacks?

lol no, I just swap out my Poker clear/gold 62g springs with black and whatever spring I'm using :)
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 June 2013, 23:30:27 by Jocelyn »

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 23:28:31 »
Testing actuation with linear switches are ok, but like Larken mentioned, it's very hard to get accurate actuation with tactile switches. Especially using nickels is a terrible method for tactile switches because this method is a static standstill until you overcome the friction of the stem and inner rails of the switch. Right at the tactile part, there is more friction to overcome, so it'll require more nickels overcome the threshold. Under real typing conditions, no one stops right at the tactile bump, then start typing again.

Umm I agree. This is why I do it with linear stems as mentioned above. All of my nickel actuation tests have been done with black stems ;)

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Offline raspiguy

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 10 June 2013, 19:23:33 »
Both 45g and 45g(50g) from Calavera's GB are too light imo, lubed or not. 50g LL, which actuate at around 40-42g, are what I'll be using for my GH60.

PS - raspiguy, this should clear up some of the confusion. There is no 55g LL, meaning I made a typo.
No worries on the typo.  Didn't want you to think I hadn't read the entire thread -- I did see that photo earlier, but without the clarification on the rarity of actuation metrics in the spring references, I was still scratching my head at that wondering how anybody was supposed to discern stock-Cherry (act) vs Korean (btm).  That and the frustration of not knowing 50g LL GB ~= Sherryton (50g) == Originative (50g).  Should have done more searching, but I'm getting it now.
Its more the bump on the way up that bothers me on ergoclears. But I'll still probably try it anyway, once kbdmod restocks the 45gs. If all things fail, super light browns!

@raspiguy, sorry I missed your post the first time. lack of coffee.

I agree about the springs labelling getting confusing at a certain point, but Jocelyn's posting of the pic from Furuya cleared it up pretty well.

To make things clear - pun unintended - all springs I'll be referring to would be korean springs based on bottom out (largely because the stock mx springs are already 'well documented', so to speak).

Calculating actuation is a iffy way to go about it, as the tactile bumps on mx stems does add force required to actuation (compared to linear stems). Actuation force with a clear stem would differ from that with a red stem. But in the contained topic that is ergoclears alone, I am thankful that someone (Jocelyn) took the trouble to measure actuation. Though I'd stick to the bottom out measurements in the picture for reference.

When I say 45g, I mean the 45gs in the picture, from korea. Not the cherry mx 45g springs, or any other variant.

The 45gs I'm planning on getting would be via a proxy, though it should be mentioned that kbdmod themselves doesn't have stock for these as of now. I notice originative has these in stock, so if you're interested, you could probably get it from there.

@Jocelyn - any chance of some nickel tests with the 45g springs? :D There's some hearsay that it actuates at 30g, if true, it would make for a very nice light touch switch.
I'm not gonna lie, between the first few posts following mine with nothing but two-digit references and then not getting something your first time posting back, I was feeling pretty dispirited... :-[  haha.  But appreciate you coming back around and explaining as it really helped.  A good lesson in 'keeping the faith'.  That originative page was going to be my next helpless 'exhibit A' plea before you beat me to it and confirmed.  For someone not realizing that aftermarket/Korean springs are all titled based on bottom-out force, "62g" is the only product listing that really sticks out.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 10 June 2013, 23:45:08 »
Both 45g and 45g(50g) from Calavera's GB are too light imo, lubed or not. 50g LL, which actuate at around 40-42g, are what I'll be using for my GH60.

PS - raspiguy, this should clear up some of the confusion. There is no 55g LL, meaning I made a typo.
No worries on the typo.  Didn't want you to think I hadn't read the entire thread -- I did see that photo earlier, but without the clarification on the rarity of actuation metrics in the spring references, I was still scratching my head at that wondering how anybody was supposed to discern stock-Cherry (act) vs Korean (btm).  That and the frustration of not knowing 50g LL GB ~= Sherryton (50g) == Originative (50g).  Should have done more searching, but I'm getting it now.
Its more the bump on the way up that bothers me on ergoclears. But I'll still probably try it anyway, once kbdmod restocks the 45gs. If all things fail, super light browns!

@raspiguy, sorry I missed your post the first time. lack of coffee.

I agree about the springs labelling getting confusing at a certain point, but Jocelyn's posting of the pic from Furuya cleared it up pretty well.

To make things clear - pun unintended - all springs I'll be referring to would be korean springs based on bottom out (largely because the stock mx springs are already 'well documented', so to speak).

Calculating actuation is a iffy way to go about it, as the tactile bumps on mx stems does add force required to actuation (compared to linear stems). Actuation force with a clear stem would differ from that with a red stem. But in the contained topic that is ergoclears alone, I am thankful that someone (Jocelyn) took the trouble to measure actuation. Though I'd stick to the bottom out measurements in the picture for reference.

When I say 45g, I mean the 45gs in the picture, from korea. Not the cherry mx 45g springs, or any other variant.

The 45gs I'm planning on getting would be via a proxy, though it should be mentioned that kbdmod themselves doesn't have stock for these as of now. I notice originative has these in stock, so if you're interested, you could probably get it from there.

@Jocelyn - any chance of some nickel tests with the 45g springs? :D There's some hearsay that it actuates at 30g, if true, it would make for a very nice light touch switch.
I'm not gonna lie, between the first few posts following mine with nothing but two-digit references and then not getting something your first time posting back, I was feeling pretty dispirited... :-[  haha.  But appreciate you coming back around and explaining as it really helped.  A good lesson in 'keeping the faith'.  That originative page was going to be my next helpless 'exhibit A' plea before you beat me to it and confirmed.  For someone not realizing that aftermarket/Korean springs are all titled based on bottom-out force, "62g" is the only product listing that really sticks out.


don't for get they all lose 5g after a while.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 00:06:19 »
Probably not 5g but some percent of initial stiffness.  That would depend on material and coil shape.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 00:08:16 »
Probably not 5g but some percent of initial stiffness.  That would depend on material and coil shape.

I would be depressed if it loses more than 5g

Offline raspiguy

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 00:24:51 »
don't for get they all lose 5g after a while.
Yeah, I'm thinking that that (along with my complete lack of preparedness) is a good enough reason to maybe hold off on the sherryton 45gs for 'ultra-light' browns and instead stay on the lookout for the 50g LL springs coming back in stock.

I will say, though, that the 45gs could be an interesting ultra-light mod for blues.  I've only ever used (stock) MX blues and browns extensively, and since I know that I highly prefer browns for extended typing (writing) sessions due to earlier fatigue experienced with the blues, blues might be a safer try / better match, for my tastes.  Given the smaller tactile bump on the stem, I would also think the change for the action wouldn't be nearly as big of a factor as it apparently is for clears.
« Last Edit: Tue, 11 June 2013, 13:03:03 by raspiguy »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 00:59:41 »
don't for get they all lose 5g after a while.
Yeah, I'm thinking that that (along with my complete lack of preparedness) is a good enough reason to maybe hold off on the sherryton 45gs for 'ultra-light' browns and instead stay on the lookout for the 50g LL springs coming back in stock.

I will say, though, that the 45gs could be an interesting ultra-light mod for blues.  I've only ever used (stock) MX blues and browns extensively, and since I know that I highly prefer browns for extended typing (writing) sessions due to earlier fatigue experienced with the blues, blues might be a safer try / better match, for my tastes.  Given the smaller tactile bump on the steam, I would also think the change for the action wouldn't be nearly as big of a factor as it apparently is for clears.

i think with brown it might be fine, because there's little chance of it not popping back up or sticking... with clears, this is not the case, if the spring loses enough force, it has a much higher potential to stick.

Offline Larken

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 01:54:13 »
FWIW, I don't think originative ever carried the 50g LL springs, or ever will. Even kbdmod, where the springs are supposedly from in the first place, doesn't have 50g springs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those LL springs came from a korean gb. You gotta 'know somebody' to get your hands on those, so to speak. Or if anyone can point me in the direction where I can get some easily, I'd gladly be wrong :D
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Offline raspiguy

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 07:58:22 »
FWIW, I don't think originative ever carried the 50g LL springs, or ever will. Even kbdmod, where the springs are supposedly from in the first place, doesn't have 50g springs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those LL springs came from a korean gb. You gotta 'know somebody' to get your hands on those, so to speak. Or if anyone can point me in the direction where I can get some easily, I'd gladly be wrong :D
Fair point -- I was just sort of assuming sherryton could occasionally access them / stock them up, given the range currently available on originative.

I'll ask and see what s/he says.

Offline kenmai9

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 14:14:27 »
I just wanted to bump this so I can vouch lubed ergo clears.
I just lubed mine yesterday and



Using an ergonomic mixture of 67g, 65g and light springs.
It feels like butter now. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED EVEN THO IT TAKES FOREVER.

Offline Sifo

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 18:02:40 »
Don't think your Clear stems are supposed to feel like butter :rolleyes:
I love Elzy

Offline kenmai9

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 22:50:31 »
Don't think your Clear stems are supposed to feel like butter :rolleyes:

Tactile butter.

Offline keymaster

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Re: Ergo-Clear questions...
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 22:59:18 »
Don't think your Clear stems are supposed to feel like butter :rolleyes:

That pretty much describes what Topre feels like.


Don't think your Clear stems are supposed to feel like butter :rolleyes:

Tactile butter.