polarizing topic of the day: IOC is homophobic

[sth]

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/olympic-committee-confirms-it-will-punish-athletes-who-support-lgbt-rights-russia

honestly... any argument in their defense is probably just gonna make me think you're a piece of **** but whatever

[tp4tissue]

The olympics is a business. a very large and expensive international advertising campaign.

Things such as gay rights, etc, are such potent topics that they can thwart the core ad-messages of the olympic sponsors.

Think of it that way...

No one really cares if a boy wants to kiss another boy...

They only care that the above fact might make you miss the point of buying nike shoes.

[sth]

The olympics is a business. a very large and expensive international advertising campaign.

Things such as gay rights, etc, are such potent topics that they can thwart the core ad-messages of the olympic sponsors.

Think of it that way...

then **** them, i hope they go bankrupt.

[demik]

boycott all things russia and IOC

[CalmB4tehPwn]

There's much bigger arguments than business here, and point blank, the olympics would be making a more sound -business- decision to stay away from russia, because then they'd be sending a message to the entire world, that they accept homosexuality and bisexuality, which would help people, homosexuals and supporters, want to buy more nikes.

Now, the other side of this, is that even though it's a business, it's a VERY political business, and that being said we need to send a message to Russia. That this bull**** isn't going to stand, and that the world will not stand with them. What about the gay olympians (i can name a couple, historically)? are they just not going to go to the olympics because they aren't allowed to be a gay person where the olympics are?

I couldn't give two ****s about Russia, and we need to avoid them like the plague. Pull the Olympics, and let them suffer the millions of dollars they've put into preparations, and lose out on the tourism they expected in return. Show them that the world wont watch this happen, and that there are consequences of subjugating a class, race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. This is absurd that this is even still a ****ing question. That this needs to be discussed. How many civil rights movements do we need to hold before WE'RE ALL ****ING EQUAL. ****, guys. In 30 years, we'll look back on the people who opposed this the same way that we look back now on the people who opposed women's rights, or black rights. Let's just pull their ****ing right to vote while we're at it. Love another dude? Let's take your license away from you. Can't be a land owner!

What the ****, people?

[demik]

also, IOC punishes athletes that speak out against a country's laws. So it's not so much that they are homophobic, as they are a bunch of little *****es.

[vun]

The olympics is a business. a very large and expensive international advertising campaign.

Things such as gay rights, etc, are such potent topics that they can thwart the core ad-messages of the olympic sponsors.

Think of it that way...

then **** them, i hope they go bankrupt.

Agreed, there is no defence for what they are doing. I can only hope that this stirs up some real **** eventually, hopefully enough of a storm that something like this never happens again. But realistically? I don't think the big money's going to care.

[noisyturtle]

I've seen enough lesbian Russian pr0n to know this isn't completely true.

[sth]

*****es.

[demik]

female dogs?

[tp4tissue]

also, IOC punishes athletes that speak out against a country's laws. So it's not so much that they are homophobic, as they are a bunch of little *****es.

They're a business where the athletes get the worst end of the deal, that's for sure.


But if you look further, Being an athelete is not really more rigorous than many minimum wage jobs, so in that respect their market value isn't much higher, despite their social status.

So... the athletes will have to boycott the olympics for anything to happen..

This is not so easy for atheletes, because if they denounce their most grand competition, then that would deminish whatever they gained once their demands are met.

To complain about the olympic company is doubly bad, which is why change can not come from attrition on part of the athelets.

[vun]

also, IOC punishes athletes that speak out against a country's laws. So it's not so much that they are homophobic, as they are a bunch of little *****es.

They're a business where the athletes get the worst end of the deal, that's for sure.


But if you look further, Being an athelete is not really more rigorous than many minimum wage jobs, so in that respect their market value isn't much higher, despite their social status.

So... the athletes will have to boycott the olympics for anything to happen..

This is not so easy for atheletes, because if they denounce their most grand competition, then that would deminish whatever they gained once their demands are met.

To complain about the olympic company is doubly bad, which is why change can not come from attrition on part of the athelets.

A lot of the top athletes could probably stand up and still live comfortably until they get things in order again, considering how bad LGBT++ people are having it in Russia it really is a cause worth taking a hit for.

[noisyturtle]

Nothin' homophobic here boyz. Just slap that meat on the griddle.

[tp4tissue]

also, IOC punishes athletes that speak out against a country's laws. So it's not so much that they are homophobic, as they are a bunch of little *****es.

They're a business where the athletes get the worst end of the deal, that's for sure.


But if you look further, Being an athelete is not really more rigorous than many minimum wage jobs, so in that respect their market value isn't much higher, despite their social status.

So... the athletes will have to boycott the olympics for anything to happen..

This is not so easy for atheletes, because if they denounce their most grand competition, then that would deminish whatever they gained once their demands are met.

To complain about the olympic company is doubly bad, which is why change can not come from attrition on part of the athelets.

A lot of the top athletes could probably stand up and still live comfortably until they get things in order again, considering how bad LGBT++ people are having it in Russia it really is a cause worth taking a hit for.

There is no solid data that LGBT acceptance in Russia is any "worse" than say USA.

You can't just look at sensationalistic Journalism on the News.


For example, the current hot topic has been the controversial ban of Gay rights activism around "CHILDREN"


You can not talk about gay rights without talking about sex, and that subject could become explicit quite easily.


There is certainly a need to shield children from the more explicit topics until they have acquired the necessary context to understand sexuality....


THIS was the purpose for the Russian ban.

These gay rights protests are usually mobs of "morons" headed by intellectuals that capitalizes on their stupidity.

Not always the case, but THIS is one such case.

[sth]

There is no solid data that LGBT acceptance in Russia is any "worse" than say USA.

lol

For example, the current hot topic has been the controversial ban of Gay rights activism around "CHILDREN"
You can not talk about gay rights without talking about sex, and that subject could become explicit quite easily.
There is certainly a need to shield children from the more explicit topics until they have acquired the necessary context to understand sexuality....

lol

THIS was the purpose for the Russian ban.
These gay rights protests are usually mobs of "morons" headed by intellectuals that capitalizes on their stupidity.
Not always the case, but THIS is one such case.

lol and also lol

[iri]

i'm still very curious about why the word "homophobic" is used for someone who doesn't like gays.

[iri]

There is no solid data that LGBT acceptance in Russia is any "worse" than say USA.

You can't just look at sensationalistic Journalism on the News.


For example, the current hot topic has been the controversial ban of Gay rights activism around "CHILDREN"


You can not talk about gay rights without talking about sex, and that subject could become explicit quite easily.


There is certainly a need to shield children from the more explicit topics until they have acquired the necessary context to understand sexuality....


THIS was the purpose for the Russian ban.

These gay rights protests are usually mobs of "morons" headed by intellectuals that capitalizes on their stupidity.

Not always the case, but THIS is one such case.

what is your source of information? is this from chinese news?

[Leslieann]

IOC is all about the money.
Whoever pays them the most and will spend the most on the celebrations is who gets the Olympics. If you think they give two sh*ts about what else happens you are wrong. They only care about how things look, and how much money they can make in the process.

As a business in the city hosting, it's illegal to even mention the Olympics without a permit. Did no one notice how London became a police state during the Olympics, this is actually normal. The only oddball part was rocket batteries on the rooftops, but expect serious firepower from here on out.
Salt Lake City nearly lost hosting due to the fact that how much they spent bribing officials got out. The official limit is $200 per official, SLC spent over $1mil per member in bribes after losing out 4 times prior.
Rio is currently going through and systematically wiping out the ghetto in order to make things "look" better. This includes slash and burn to wipe it out.

It took Greece over 5 years to recover what they spent to host the games. It's taken nearly 30 years for Montreal to pay off the stadium they built to host the games. Switzerland had the chance to host and after seeing what all they would give up, and how much it would cost, told the IOC to get lost.


On the bright side, whether they like it or not, Russia and the IOC may have just caused the biggest human rights campaign in history.

[baldgye]

Polarizing? If you side with Russia (anti-gay) then you have serious problems and shouldn't be taken seriously lol

[tp4tissue]

IOC is all about the money.
Whoever pays them the most and will spend the most on the celebrations is who gets the Olympics. If you think they give two sh*ts about what else happens you are wrong. They only care about how things look, and how much money they can make in the process.

As a business in the city hosting, it's illegal to even mention the Olympics without a permit. Did no one notice how London became a police state during the Olympics, this is actually normal. The only oddball part was rocket batteries on the rooftops, but expect serious firepower from here on out.
Salt Lake City nearly lost hosting due to the fact that how much they spent bribing officials got out. The official limit is $200 per official, SLC spent over $1mil per member in bribes after losing out 4 times prior.
Rio is currently going through and systematically wiping out the ghetto in order to make things "look" better. This includes slash and burn to wipe it out.

It took Greece over 5 years to recover what they spent to host the games. It's taken nearly 30 years for Montreal to pay off the stadium they built to host the games. Switzerland had the chance to host and after seeing what all they would give up, and how much it would cost, told the IOC to get lost.


On the bright side, whether they like it or not, Russia and the IOC may have just caused the biggest human rights campaign in history.

I totally already said this 

you plagiarized me, this is start of an international incident i tells ya. HAHAHAHAHAHA 


The only people who care about gay rights are gay or parents of gays...

Most other people,  it's a non-issue...


That's the problem.. from the perspective of businesses, Gays' are too much of a minority to bother pleasing..

What they need to do is somehow make more gay people.. I don't know how they'd do this, but that's really the only way..

 

[sth]

i'm still very curious about why the word "homophobic" is used for someone who doesn't like gays.

are you really curious? reeeeeaaaaaally?
because you're on this site, i assume you're at least somewhat nerdy, or at least inclined toward refining your own knowledge of things... and at the very least, you know how to use google. and the top two results for 'homophobia' are preeeeeeeeeeetty cut and dry. one is the wikipedia entry and the other is the dictionary.com entry.

 note that 'irrational fear' is almost last on the list of possible manifestations.

note that both the dictionary.com definition and the world english definition mention antipathy and not just irrational fear.

geekhack is no place for ignorance, we're all pretty sharp at at least a couple of things here. it's one thing to really be unaware of something you're not familiar with; it's another thing to willingly maintain ignorance, or the appearance thereof, on a pretty big social concern worldwide.

[Leslieann]

The only people who care about gay rights are gay or parents of gays...

Most other people,  it's a non-issue...


That's the problem.. from the perspective of businesses, Gays' are too much of a minority to bother pleasing..

What they need to do is somehow make more gay people.. I don't know how they'd do this, but that's really the only way..

Gays have more buying power than most minorities and are slowly gaining more political clout through lobbyists because of that monetary influence. This is also why Fortune 500 companies took note of them years ago. It's local businesses who have yet to realize it. You don't need more people for your cause, you just need money and lobbyists.

As for who cares, seems to me it's about families more than just the parents and gays themselves. Most people know one, which is why it's become such an issue.

[jdcarpe]

Anytime some group or individual starts making laws against certain behaviors, you have to wonder if maybe it's because they see those tendencies in themselves, and are afraid of what that means.

[tp4tissue]

Anytime some group or individual starts making laws against certain behaviors, you have to wonder if maybe it's because they see those tendencies in themselves, and are afraid of what that means.

That's exactly what laws are for?

Every one here has downloaded an MP3, Especially YOU JDCarpe, we know for a fact you got an indecent library there.

So that also means, Everyone here has criminal intent "somewhere" in them..


THATS why we have laws that say , crimes are illegal..


In your post, You've only outlined the basic purpose behind making laws in the first place,  WHICH, is to modulate our own natural propensity to harm the self and one-another

[tp4tissue]

The only people who care about gay rights are gay or parents of gays...

Most other people,  it's a non-issue...


That's the problem.. from the perspective of businesses, Gays' are too much of a minority to bother pleasing..

What they need to do is somehow make more gay people.. I don't know how they'd do this, but that's really the only way..

Gays have more buying power than most minorities and are slowly gaining more political clout through lobbyists because of that monetary influence. This is also why Fortune 500 companies took note of them years ago. It's local businesses who have yet to realize it. You don't need more people for your cause, you just need money and lobbyists.

As for who cares, seems to me it's about families more than just the parents and gays themselves. Most people know one, which is why it's become such an issue.

They have greater buying power relative to their population sure.

but THEY do not make up the majority of the consumer market.


Having lots of money doesn't actually make you a HUGE consumer..

[iri]

The only people who care about gay rights are gay or parents of gays...

i could care, i just don't know, which gay rights are violated here?

[iri]

i'm still very curious about why the word "homophobic" is used for someone who doesn't like gays.

are you really curious? reeeeeaaaaaally?
because you're on this site, i assume you're at least somewhat nerdy, or at least inclined toward refining your own knowledge of things... and at the very least, you know how to use google. and the top two results for 'homophobia' are preeeeeeeeeeetty cut and dry. one is the wikipedia entry and the other is the dictionary.com entry.

 note that 'irrational fear' is almost last on the list of possible manifestations.

note that both the dictionary.com definition and the world english definition mention antipathy and not just irrational fear.

geekhack is no place for ignorance, we're all pretty sharp at at least a couple of things here. it's one thing to really be unaware of something you're not familiar with; it's another thing to willingly maintain ignorance, or the appearance thereof, on a pretty big social concern worldwide.

[Leslieann]

The only people who care about gay rights are gay or parents of gays...

Most other people,  it's a non-issue...


That's the problem.. from the perspective of businesses, Gays' are too much of a minority to bother pleasing..

What they need to do is somehow make more gay people.. I don't know how they'd do this, but that's really the only way..

Gays have more buying power than most minorities and are slowly gaining more political clout through lobbyists because of that monetary influence. This is also why Fortune 500 companies took note of them years ago. It's local businesses who have yet to realize it. You don't need more people for your cause, you just need money and lobbyists.

As for who cares, seems to me it's about families more than just the parents and gays themselves. Most people know one, which is why it's become such an issue.

They have greater buying power relative to their population sure.

but THEY do not make up the majority of the consumer market.


Having lots of money doesn't actually make you a HUGE consumer..

It doesn't matter if you make up a majority, as a business, you would have to be pretty foolish to ignore any segment with decent, disposable income and political clout.

Considering your political views (unless you're just a troll), it doesn't surprise me that you have no idea how much these companies actually do cater to and try to appeal to this "minority" consumer market. Subaru is a great example, they went after lesbians so much that it became a cliche (Lesburu) to own one.

[Lanx]

The only people who care about gay rights are gay or parents of gays...

i could care, i just don't know, which gay rights are violated here?

In Russia it is now illegal to even speak about homosexuality around minors, much less openly display gay pride. Technically the ban is against "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations" around minors, but the implication for openly gay individuals is clear. Public displays of affection by gays, including holding hands or displaying symbols like a rainbow flag, are now banned. Violators face steep fines and jail time; foreigners face similar penalties plus deportation.

So what will happen to openly gay athletes and fans, as well as any vocal supporters or protestors, when Russia hosts the Winter Olympics next year in Sochi?

This week, comments by a lawmaker from St. Petersburg set off a firestorm online when he said that fans and athletes would not be immune from prosecution during the games.

from
http://abcnews.go.com/International/russian-lawmaker-suggests-gay-athletes-prosecuted-2014-winter/story?id=19829868

abc says gays can't PDA, hell they can't even hold hands. two guys can't hold hands and walk down the street!,

that's bad for straight islamic/indian men who regularly hold hands with each other.

ugh, now russia is only good for youtube dash cam videos, otherwise it's a crappy country, i guess that's what you get when you loose to America.

[iri]

In Russia it is now illegal to even speak about homosexuality around minors

wrong.

much less openly display gay pride

wrong. (and what's the point of being proud of own sexual preference? and displaying such pride?).

Technically the ban is against "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations" around minors

right.

Public displays of affection by gays, including holding hands or displaying symbols like a rainbow flag, are now banned

wrong.

Violators face steep fines and jail time

wrong. no jail time, though $130 fine may be steep for someone.

foreigners face (...) deportation.

right. i dream of millions of immigrants from central asia spreading donkey sex propaganda around russian kids.

So what will happen to openly gay athletes and fans

nothing.

as well as any vocal supporters or protestors

violation of this rule 50 of olympic charter, apparently.

This week, comments by a lawmaker from St. Petersburg set off a firestorm online when he said that fans and athletes would not be immune from prosecution during the games.

most likely wrong.

that's bad for straight islamic/indian men who regularly hold hands with each other.

obviously almost no indian men here. local islamic men don't do so. though chechens like to do the group men kissing on meetups, would be fun if they get prosecuted for that.

[vivalarevolución]

I'm still astonished that tp4tissue talks with the authority of an expert on any subject.  Quite a talent.

Anyways, the Track and Field World Championships are going on right now.  An American, Nick Symmonds, won the silver medal is the 800 meters (the first medal for an American in that event in 16 years, btw).  He had some thoughts on Russia's recent policies.  If more athletes speak up in this manner, it will make the IOC and Russian lawmakers look like the clowns they are.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3755462

[tp4tissue]

I'm still astonished that tp4tissue talks with the authority of an expert on any subject.  Quite a talent.

Anyways, the Track and Field World Championships are going on right now.  An American, Nick Symmonds, won the silver medal is the 800 meters (the first medal for an American in that event in 16 years, btw).  He had some thoughts on Russia's recent policies.  If more athletes speak up in this manner, it will make the IOC and Russian lawmakers look like the clowns they are.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3755462

Gay rights does  not matter to enough people for policy makers to care.

SO.. their strategy is to tact themselves onto other groups and social issue to gain traction.

Like how the extreme feminists who view all form of sex as rape (anti-pr0n)  tact onto the abortion agenda with the religious conservatives.

The main conflict here of is that the religious conservatives will eventually bury these feminists, because of their conflicting views on abortion..

Just like how the athelets when threatened to have their medals taken away would immediately distance themselves from the Gay debate.

[sth]

i'm still very curious about why the word "homophobic" is used for someone who doesn't like gays.

are you really curious? reeeeeaaaaaally?
because you're on this site, i assume you're at least somewhat nerdy, or at least inclined toward refining your own knowledge of things... and at the very least, you know how to use google. and the top two results for 'homophobia' are preeeeeeeeeeetty cut and dry. one is the wikipedia entry and the other is the dictionary.com entry.

 note that 'irrational fear' is almost last on the list of possible manifestations.

note that both the dictionary.com definition and the world english definition mention antipathy and not just irrational fear.

geekhack is no place for ignorance, we're all pretty sharp at at least a couple of things here. it's one thing to really be unaware of something you're not familiar with; it's another thing to willingly maintain ignorance, or the appearance thereof, on a pretty big social concern worldwide.

Show Image

that's your answer? really?

[hashbaz]

that's your answer? really?

Is it any worse than "lol"?  Just sayin.

There is no solid data that LGBT acceptance in Russia is any "worse" than say USA.

lol

For example, the current hot topic has been the controversial ban of Gay rights activism around "CHILDREN"
You can not talk about gay rights without talking about sex, and that subject could become explicit quite easily.
There is certainly a need to shield children from the more explicit topics until they have acquired the necessary context to understand sexuality....

lol

THIS was the purpose for the Russian ban.
These gay rights protests are usually mobs of "morons" headed by intellectuals that capitalizes on their stupidity.
Not always the case, but THIS is one such case.

lol and also lol

[sth]

that's your answer? really?

Is it any worse than "lol"?  Just sayin.

There is no solid data that LGBT acceptance in Russia is any "worse" than say USA.

lol

For example, the current hot topic has been the controversial ban of Gay rights activism around "CHILDREN"
You can not talk about gay rights without talking about sex, and that subject could become explicit quite easily.
There is certainly a need to shield children from the more explicit topics until they have acquired the necessary context to understand sexuality....

lol

THIS was the purpose for the Russian ban.
These gay rights protests are usually mobs of "morons" headed by intellectuals that capitalizes on their stupidity.
Not always the case, but THIS is one such case.

lol and also lol

whoops, you got me. i do tend to get flippant with people who try to logic away their/others' homophobia. a terrible character flaw of mine.

[iri]

racism! you forgot racism!

[sth]

racism! you forgot racism!

i try not to. nobody's perfect.

[Excaliborg]

obviously almost no indian men here. local islamic men don't do so. though chechens like to do the group men kissing on meetups, would be fun if they get prosecuted for that.

I don't consider systematic marginalization and oppression of ways of life that fall outside of cultural norms "fun" but that's just me.

Going back to your statement on pride just think about how much awareness was needed throughout the civil rights era in the U.S. (sorry if that's not a helpful example but it's the only thing that I can think of right now). If you are attacked openly for your way of life/ethnicity/sexual orientation, widespread awareness and visibility is one way to go about changing the situation that you find yourself in.

[iri]

obviously almost no indian men here. local islamic men don't do so. though chechens like to do the group men kissing on meetups, would be fun if they get prosecuted for that.

I don't consider systematic marginalization and oppression of ways of life that fall outside of cultural norms "fun" but that's just me.

never heard about someone SYSTEMATICALLY oppressed for such behaviour (actually a norm for caucasian nations). and yes, barely anything could be funnier than OMON crew chasing a group of chechens who kissed when meeting!

If you are attacked openly for your way of life/ethnicity/sexual orientation, widespread awareness and visibility is one way to go about changing the situation that you find yourself in.

it surely will make sense in iran. but what is the meaning of "Pride" in sweden, canada, netherlands, etc? where same-sex marriage is a norm?

[tinlong117]

hmmm....

No comment.

[vun]

it surely will make sense in iran. but what is the meaning of "Pride" in sweden, canada, netherlands, etc? where same-sex marriage is a norm?

Despite the fact that there are several European countries where same-sex marriages are both legal and normal there is still quite a bit of stigma around it in at least some of those countries. Although the pride deal is a double-edged sword, I'm not sure if it's the best way to go about things.

[Excaliborg]

Of course "pride" will vary country to country but that is true for almost any issue/topic related to culture (pretty much anything). You always have to take culture and history of an area into consideration and I try not to generalize, especially in conversations like this. By oppression I just meant that I know that I would hate to be beaten in the street or fired from a job for being who I am/existing.

I can see how pride could be viewed as an impediment to improvement but I believe that when you seek awareness/improvement something is better than nothing. I believe that the ability to create change starts with awareness and visibility. Again there are probably examples on both sides positive/negative. But when an individual believes that the society in which they live works against what they believe is right they are bound to speak up eventually. Personal/societal beliefs will determine how much or little acceptance there will be around any given topic and how the topic will be addressed once the awareness stage is reached.

Of course this is all my opinion and some might completely disagree but I just wanted to chime in with a human rights/socio-cultural perspective.

[vun]

I can see how pride could be viewed as an impediment to improvement but I believe that when you seek awareness/improvement something is better than nothing. I believe that the ability to create change starts with awareness and visibility. Again there are probably examples on both sides positive/negative. But when an individual believes that the society in which they live works against what they believe is right they are bound to speak up eventually. Personal/societal beliefs will determine how much or little acceptance there will be around any given topic and how the topic will be addressed once the awareness stage is reached.

I wasn't saying that pride is bad and that they should stop, like I said it's a double edged sword; both creating awareness while also giving those who disagree with them a bit of ammunition. The last part of my post was more of a hypothetical remark; there might be a way to raise awareness that is equally or more effective with less drawbacks, but that's pretty much just a philosopher's puzzle rather than an issue that can be easily solved.

[Excaliborg]

I wasn't saying that pride is bad and that they should stop, like I said it's a double edged sword; both creating awareness while also giving those who disagree with them a bit of ammunition.

That's a really good point to take into consideration in deciding how best to handle the awareness aspect. There is definitely no clear answer as to best go about things in issues like this, as there will always be strong voices on both sides. I love getting different views in conversations like this as I had not considered the "ammunition" aspect when I was typing that.

[kurplop]

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/olympic-committee-confirms-it-will-punish-athletes-who-support-lgbt-rights-russia

honestly... any argument in their defense is probably just gonna make me think you're a piece of **** but whatever

Becoming sensitive to others is a process. We begin life as egocentric beings. As we grow we become aware that others have needs,values and perspectives that are unlike our own. We may choose to ignore another's needs and values, we may even wish them ill, or we may choose to seek common ground, find the good in them and experience true empathy toward them.

Some here may think I'm a piece of **** because of my Christian perspective. Like you, I have a set of values and standards that are uncompromising and sometimes conflict with other peoples views. I also struggle internally with values I  embrace which seem contrary to other views I hold dear. An example would be hating war but also hating being conquered by an oppressive enemy. We live in an imperfect world and life isn't simple.

I am troubled by the perception, not entirely untrue, that those who oppose the LGBT agenda are hateful, bigoted, ignorant and hypocritical. I know many who would fit at least one of those descriptions, even myself. It's likely that every group has individuals within that do not reflect the best that group has to offer. I know that I need to concentrate more on improving myself and less on judging others.

The impasse we seem to find ourselves at seem to have less to do with tolerance and more with indoctrination. From my perspective, the LGBT movement does not appear to be satisfied with the rest of the world tolerating their freedom of expression, a position I do not have an issue with, but rather, forcing everyone to reject their own convictions and heartily embrace lifestyles they believe are wrong.   How is that different than what the "traditional values" people have been accused of doing?

I don't know what the solution is but I think a good first step is to try to avoid hurtful and inflammatory speech that further polarizes us. Only then wiil we be able to approach one another with reasonable concessions that respect every side.

[sth]

The impasse we seem to find ourselves at seem to have less to do with tolerance and more with indoctrination. From my perspective, the LGBT movement does not appear to be satisfied with the rest of the world tolerating their freedom of expression, a position I do not have an issue with, but rather, forcing everyone to reject their own convictions and heartily embrace lifestyles they believe are wrong.   How is that different than what the "traditional values" people have been accused of doing?

because the people with those 'traditional values' are literally assaulting, harassing, raping and murdering people who don't share those beliefs.
because the people with those traditional values that are NOT murdering people who don't share those beliefs provide direct and indirect support to those who do.

[iri]

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/olympic-committee-confirms-it-will-punish-athletes-who-support-lgbt-rights-russia

honestly... any argument in their defense is probably just gonna make me think you're a piece of **** but whatever

Becoming sensitive to others is a process. We begin life as egocentric beings. As we grow we become aware that others have needs,values and perspectives that are unlike our own. We may choose to ignore another's needs and values, we may even wish them ill, or we may choose to seek common ground, find the good in them and experience true empathy toward them.

Some here may think I'm a piece of **** because of my Christian perspective. Like you, I have a set of values and standards that are uncompromising and sometimes conflict with other peoples views. I also struggle internally with values I  embrace which seem contrary to other views I hold dear. An example would be hating war but also hating being conquered by an oppressive enemy. We live in an imperfect world and life isn't simple.

I am troubled by the perception, not entirely untrue, that those who oppose the LGBT agenda are hateful, bigoted, ignorant and hypocritical. I know many who would fit at least one of those descriptions, even myself. It's likely that every group has individuals within that do not reflect the best that group has to offer. I know that I need to concentrate more on improving myself and less on judging others.

The impasse we seem to find ourselves at seem to have less to do with tolerance and more with indoctrination. From my perspective, the LGBT movement does not appear to be satisfied with the rest of the world tolerating their freedom of expression, a position I do not have an issue with, but rather, forcing everyone to reject their own convictions and heartily embrace lifestyles they believe are wrong.   How is that different than what the "traditional values" people have been accused of doing?

I don't know what the solution is but I think a good first step is to try to avoid hurtful and inflammatory speech that further polarizes us. Only then wiil we be able to approach one another with reasonable concessions that respect every side.

hello. i like you.

[Leslieann]

The impasse we seem to find ourselves at seem to have less to do with tolerance and more with indoctrination. From my perspective, the LGBT movement does not appear to be satisfied with the rest of the world tolerating their freedom of expression, a position I do not have an issue with, but rather, forcing everyone to reject their own convictions and heartily embrace lifestyles they believe are wrong.   How is that different than what the "traditional values" people have been accused of doing?

Most gays I know, l have no issue with someone not liking their lifestyle, to each their own. They don't want to convert your children, or corrupt you. They just want to be treated fairly.

The problem is (like Russia) we have teachers, pastors, governors, congressmen and even presidential candidates calling not just for laws opposing marriage, but some advocating putting gays and lesbians in jail, some go so far as to say they should even be executed. These aren't fringe people either, these are well respected people with lots of followers.


It seems to me, Jesus would have not only tolerated them, but walked with them and welcomed them. Not shunned them, fired them, threw them out of their homes, beaten bullied, stoned or murdered them. Would he approve of their lifestyle, maybe, maybe not, but he would NEVER do what many religious groups have done and continue to try and do to them.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/olympic-committee-confirms-it-will-punish-athletes-who-support-lgbt-rights-russia

honestly... any argument in their defense is probably just gonna make me think you're a piece of **** but whatever

Becoming sensitive to others is a process. We begin life as egocentric beings. As we grow we become aware that others have needs,values and perspectives that are unlike our own. We may choose to ignore another's needs and values, we may even wish them ill, or we may choose to seek common ground, find the good in them and experience true empathy toward them.

Some here may think I'm a piece of **** because of my Christian perspective. Like you, I have a set of values and standards that are uncompromising and sometimes conflict with other peoples views. I also struggle internally with values I  embrace which seem contrary to other views I hold dear. An example would be hating war but also hating being conquered by an oppressive enemy. We live in an imperfect world and life isn't simple.

I am troubled by the perception, not entirely untrue, that those who oppose the LGBT agenda are hateful, bigoted, ignorant and hypocritical. I know many who would fit at least one of those descriptions, even myself. It's likely that every group has individuals within that do not reflect the best that group has to offer. I know that I need to concentrate more on improving myself and less on judging others.

The impasse we seem to find ourselves at seem to have less to do with tolerance and more with indoctrination. From my perspective, the LGBT movement does not appear to be satisfied with the rest of the world tolerating their freedom of expression, a position I do not have an issue with, but rather, forcing everyone to reject their own convictions and heartily embrace lifestyles they believe are wrong.   How is that different than what the "traditional values" people have been accused of doing?

I don't know what the solution is but I think a good first step is to try to avoid hurtful and inflammatory speech that further polarizes us. Only then wiil we be able to approach one another with reasonable concessions that respect every side.

It's funny. Let's bring up Christianity for a moment.
I'm Christian, or have considered myself one for many years, and I do what I can to do what the bible tells me, and I've begun looking around me, at other Christians, and on this issue specifically, and realized that I can't call myself Christian any longer. The term's been warped. It means "To be like Christ" right? Well, none of use could be Christian than anyways, so we all must try to be like Christ, but when I see people red faced and screaming (and I have) about a man's right to visit his significant other on his death bed in the hospital, then I have to take a step back and re-evaluate. God calls us to put aside sin, which has infected us all, and treat each other as equals. Love the sinner, hate the sin, right? Well, I don't see a lot of love coming from the Christian nation. I see intolerance. And what Christians seem to misunderstand, is that they don't get to make the laws for a nation, or a world. Christians didn't invent Marriage, nor do we OWN marriage. We don't get to make laws regarding marriage for people who aren't christian. We wouldn't try and keep two straight athiests from getting married, WHICH IS A SIN according to the bible, but we throw our arms up in the air when two gay athiests try to get married. WHICH IS A SIN ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. No sin is greater than any other, yeah? So let's calm the hell down, and let people life the life they want to live.

Also, Nobody's telling you that you have to be gay. That you even have to raise your son to believe it's okay.

"From my perspective, the LGBT movement does not appear to be satisfied with the rest of the world tolerating their freedom of expression, a position I do not have an issue with, but rather, forcing everyone to reject their own convictions and heartily embrace lifestyles they believe are wrong.   How is that different than what the "traditional values" people have been accused of doing?"

Is your problem right there. They don't have the world tolerating their freedom of expression, so how in the world do you think they are or are not satisfied with it?
And people of "Traditional values" I assume you mean the Christian nation that seems to think they own the laws of this country? No, nobody is asking you to embrace their lifestyles which you think are wrong, they're asking you to climb off your entitled horse and accept the fact that you don't get a say in how their live their life. You're not entitled to a vote on how they live. You are not entitled to say in whose bed they sleep in. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO HOW THEY LIVE. You are entitled to a say on whether or not you embrace their lifestyle, but them being allowed by law, in a country that houses HUNDREDS of religions, not being forced by the law of ONE RELIGION is not you embracing it, it's you letting your Christian stranglehold on this nation go. WE DON'T OWN THIS COUNTRY.

[iri]

it surely will make sense in iran. but what is the meaning of "Pride" in sweden, canada, netherlands, etc? where same-sex marriage is a norm?

Despite the fact that there are several European countries where same-sex marriages are both legal and normal there is still quite a bit of stigma around it in at least some of those countries.

in 50 years some of those countries will become islamic, and any controversion about "gay pride" there will be solved automatically.