A brief discussion on Ergo-Clears

[Comment]

I have been loving my browns for a couple of years now and I am looking to making the leap into an Ergo-Clear. The only thing I'm confused on is that the natural definition for an ergo-clear is a clear stem with a Red Blue or Brown spring in it. But everywhere I look, I see people with 62g Ergo-Clears instead of the normal (45g?). Does anyone know why its so common to find that? Is it because the 45g are too soft to push the stem back past the activation point?

[SpAmRaY]

yes

[Sifo]

Common confusion.

45g is the actuation force (for reds). Koreans go by bottom out force, thus a brown/red/blue spring would actually be 60g.

The reason why peple choose 62g is because yes, with 60g sometimes you'll get an issue that people describe as feeling "sticky". The spring is just a little bit too light to use with clear stems.

Ergo-Clear by definition is 60g (stock red/brown/blue) springs + a clear stem.

62g Clears is 62g springs with a clear stem.

[Comment]

Common confusion.

45g is the actuation force (for reds). Koreans go by bottom out force, thus a brown/red/blue spring would actually be 60g.

The reason why peple choose 62g is because yes, with 60g sometimes you'll get an issue that people describe as feeling "sticky". The spring is just a little bit too light to use with clear stems.

Ergo-Clear by definition is 60g (stock red/brown/blue) springs + a clear stem.

62g Clears is 62g springs with a clear stem.

Awesome, thank you for the insight! So should I just order some 62g springs from Originative and do the springs and stems all together rather than be disappointed if they start sticking with the 60g?

[Sifo]

If that's what you'd like, it's subjective ^_^

I recommend anywhere between 62g-65g if you want lighter clears.

[Melvang]

I have stock well used springs from browns (about 2 years old when I made the switch) and granted I applied a very small amount of lube to the slider of the stem I have not had any issues with keys not coming back up yet.  And this is with both thick and thin PBT caps.  If I remember right I did leave the space bar as a stock clear stem but did lube that one as well.  I actually have 5 different combonations of springs/stems in my current keyboard.

[Comment]

I have stock well used springs from browns (about 2 years old when I made the switch) and granted I applied a very small amount of lube to the slider of the stem I have not had any issues with keys not coming back up yet.  And this is with both thick and thin PBT caps.  If I remember right I did leave the space bar as a stock clear stem but did lube that one as well.  I actually have 5 different combonations of springs/stems in my current keyboard.

Ohh ok, can you explain your reasoning for having different switches on different parts of your board? i.e. having a clear on your space bar

[noisyturtle]

and much of the sticking issues with ergo-clears can be corrected with a proper lube job as well. The sticking can be very noticeable, especially with doner switches that have been used a bit. I might even recommend going with panda-clears, as that extra little bit of force will eliminate the issue altogether and they feel amazing.

[Comment]

those have the black spring in them right? how heavy is the bottom out force on those?

[Melvang]

I have stock well used springs from browns (about 2 years old when I made the switch) and granted I applied a very small amount of lube to the slider of the stem I have not had any issues with keys not coming back up yet.  And this is with both thick and thin PBT caps.  If I remember right I did leave the space bar as a stock clear stem but did lube that one as well.  I actually have 5 different combonations of springs/stems in my current keyboard.

Ohh ok, can you explain your reasoning for having different switches on different parts of your board? i.e. having a clear on your space bar

I went with a stock clear on the space bar mostly because that cap is heavier so I wanted the apparent feel relativly close to the same and I feel I actually got pretty close.  The rest are just different combinations of brown stems, blue stems, brown springs and clear springs with some having no lube and others having lube.  I would say the ones that surprised me the most were the brown spring/brown stem with lube.

[nubbinator]

and much of the sticking issues with ergo-clears can be corrected with a proper lube job as well. The sticking can be very noticeable, especially with doner switches that have been used a bit. I might even recommend going with panda-clears, as that extra little bit of force will eliminate the issue altogether and they feel amazing.

I would disagree on that.  There are some weights that will run into sticking or hanging issues regardless of whether they're properly lubed or not.  45g is too light and you can get sticking even if you use Krytox.  55g generally won't stick with Krytox (though some still do), but you can get hanging issues where the switch can catch on the return and hang for a second before returning to its resting position.  I noticed that even some 62g lubed Clears can hang sometimes.  65g solves almost all the problems, but 67g are the perfect Ergo Clear weight to me.

Everyone has different tastes on Ergo Clears, but there are some that are just unpleasant.

[Jocelyn]

and much of the sticking issues with ergo-clears can be corrected with a proper lube job as well. The sticking can be very noticeable, especially with doner switches that have been used a bit. I might even recommend going with panda-clears, as that extra little bit of force will eliminate the issue altogether and they feel amazing.

I would disagree on that.  There are some weights that will run into sticking or hanging issues regardless of whether they're properly lubed or not.  45g is too light and you can get sticking even if you use Krytox.  55g generally won't stick with Krytox (though some still do), but you can get hanging issues where the switch can catch on the return and hang for a second before returning to its resting position.  I noticed that even some 62g lubed Clears can hang sometimes.  65g solves almost all the problems, but 67g are the perfect Ergo Clear weight to me.

Everyone has different tastes on Ergo Clears, but there are some that are just unpleasant.

I'm using lubed Clears w/50g springs (42.5 actuation) and I've never experienced any "sticking" whatsoever . You may have had a different experience, but I personally find the whole "ergo clears stick" thing to be totally overblown.

Edit - The only exception would be with used/old clears with a screwed up leaf area aka a broken switch.

PS - I'll PM you about the yellow caps eventually lol

[nubbinator]

Maybe it's just the ratios I have for Krytox or how the leaf is on some of my Clears, because some stick with 45g and even 55g springs.  It's not an every time stick, but something like 1:50-1:100.  Trying different stems in different housings does help though.  The bigger issue for me is the hanging Clears that will come up, hang for fractions of a second on the leaf, then pop past it.  That drives me nuts.

[vivalarevolución]

Common confusion.

45g is the actuation force (for reds). Koreans go by bottom out force, thus a brown/red/blue spring would actually be 60g.

The reason why peple choose 62g is because yes, with 60g sometimes you'll get an issue that people describe as feeling "sticky". The spring is just a little bit too light to use with clear stems.

Ergo-Clear by definition is 60g (stock red/brown/blue) springs + a clear stem.

62g Clears is 62g springs with a clear stem.

King of Springs speaks.

[1pq]

and much of the sticking issues with ergo-clears can be corrected with a proper lube job as well. The sticking can be very noticeable, especially with doner switches that have been used a bit. I might even recommend going with panda-clears, as that extra little bit of force will eliminate the issue altogether and they feel amazing.

I would disagree on that.  There are some weights that will run into sticking or hanging issues regardless of whether they're properly lubed or not.  45g is too light and you can get sticking even if you use Krytox.  55g generally won't stick with Krytox (though some still do), but you can get hanging issues where the switch can catch on the return and hang for a second before returning to its resting position.  I noticed that even some 62g lubed Clears can hang sometimes.  65g solves almost all the problems, but 67g are the perfect Ergo Clear weight to me.

Everyone has different tastes on Ergo Clears, but there are some that are just unpleasant.

I'm using lubed Clears w/50g springs (42.5 actuation) and I've never experienced any "sticking" whatsoever . You may have had a different experience, but I personally find the whole "ergo clears stick" thing to be totally overblown.

Edit - The only exception would be with used/old clears with a screwed up leaf area aka a broken switch.

PS - I'll PM you about the yellow caps eventually lol

I think the lube makes a huge difference. I tried to use stock mx blue springs with clear stems on my filco without lube in order to wear down the stems for maximum smoothness--and the thing was not even usable! Almost every switch stuck.

[Jocelyn]

I think the lube makes a huge difference. I tried to use stock mx blue springs with clear stems on my filco without lube in order to wear down the stems for maximum smoothness--and the thing was not even usable! Almost every switch stuck.

Definitely and sorry if I wasn't very clear. I don't use refuse to use unlubed switches, so everything I said above applies only to lubed ergo clears

[Larken]

I think the lube makes a huge difference. I tried to use stock mx blue springs with clear stems on my filco without lube in order to wear down the stems for maximum smoothness--and the thing was not even usable! Almost every switch stuck.

The source and condition of the clear stems used is an notable factor in whether an ergo clear sticks when lubed. Having gotten clears switches from different sources, namely an old g80-8113 (well used), clears that came with my ergodox, and switches I purchased elsewhere, I found none of the switches from the 8113 to stick with stock mx red springs, even when unlubed.

The brand new clears on the other hand, had 1-2 stuck switches when lubed and using 62g springs.

The older clears are now in my daily board with 55g korean springs lubed with krytox and none of them stick. In fact, they feel smoother than the 62g switches which I haven't used enough to wear down.

That said, all variants of ergo-clears should always be lubed imo.

[tp4tissue]

Ergo-Clears..

Go with the 62g  you can even use the 55g korean Springs.. The whole "too little force" concept only relates to brand-new-switches.. They are a bit rough, coming from the factory..

Once broken in... even 55g (bottomout) springs is enough to push the ergo clear back up.. (this may not be true of the space bar, since it's much heavier.)

[Oobly]

I haven't had any problems with sticking on my lightly lubed new 62g ones. It's worth getting the 'limited' Originative ones since they have less variance between springs. 

Originative 62g are the sweet spot for me. They feel great!

[Fullcream]

I wanted to do ergo clears with 62g springs from Originative but according to the website they have been out of stock, and for quite some time now. when I inquired about the 62g limited springs (also out of stock), I was told that they will not be back in stock. So I went ahead with stock mx brown springs and lube and there is no sticking/reset problems.

[gameaholic]

I have two clear boards.  One unlubed with red springs and one lubed with 62g springs.  I find I prefer the unlubed one.  It has broken in nicely over the past year.  I feel like the tactile bump on the lubed one is too subtle for me.  It almost feels like a brown.  What I really what to try is 55g clears since I feel like I prefer a lighter switch.  I know there are two lube formulas at originative and one is recommended for clears (thick formula) and the other for linear switches (thin formula).  Has anyone tried the thin formula on 55g clears?   

[Melvang]

I have two clear boards.  One unlubed with red springs and one lubed with 62g springs.  I find I prefer the unlubed one.  It has broken in nicely over the past year.  I feel like the tactile bump on the lubed one is too subtle for me.  It almost feels like a brown.  What I really what to try is 55g clears since I feel like I prefer a lighter switch.  I know there are two lube formulas at originative and one is recommended for clears (thick formula) and the other for linear switches (thin formula).  Has anyone tried the thin formula on 55g clears?

I used the stuff I got from mkawa with my ergo clears.  With stock brown well used springs and mixing the krytox very thin I don't have any issue and they don't seem to impact the bump that much.  I only applied the lube to the slider of the stem.