I've found that I bottom out no matter what...

[TheMightySM]

It doesn't bother me that much but that's just my typing style. I press with enough force to complete the entire key movement. So what would be a good switch for me?

I've been having a hard time trying to find a switch. I currently have blues in my black widow but I would like to get a quieter board. I tried the browns but I didn't like them at all. I also have a sampler kit here with about Reds, Blacks, Blues, and Browns on it. I honestly cannot tell the difference really unless I actually pay attention. Like close attention. Idk if my hands are strong or what but I feel like the switch actually doesn't matter since I bottom out as a part of my style.

Anyone have any advice? I'd like to pick up a tenkeyless soon, but I've had Clears on my radar and those are about as common as not at all.... So if the switch ultimately doesn't really matter then I could pick up a board I really like. I was thinking maybe blacks since they have no click or bump and they have the most actuation force and are common. Idk

TL;DR

I can't seem to pick a quieter switch from my blues. I didn't like the browns. I think I bottom out enough in my typing style that the switch might not matter but idk. I was looking at clears because they are heavier.

[Defect]

Ghost Blacks (Black Stem, Clear Spring) and lubed is god tier for gaming.  Ok for typing, but I prefer tactile or Buckling spring for typing.

Ghost black wasd cluster tho...

Drool

[Pacifist]

I use 100% stock blacks and I bottom out each time, and it feels glorious

[katushkin]

I don't really rate switch testers, because you only really know how a board will feel when you type at least a few words on it.

I would say clears are quite heavy if you don't want to mod springs and stuff. But you may find that you end up pressing the keys harder as the resistance rises. And then when you go back to your blues, you may find yourself smashing the keys down. Clears are quieter though, provided you don't get a squaky stabiliser or crappy caps... Grumble...

Other than that, I would suggest conciously trying to not bottom out. That's what I've been doing recently because people get annoyed on skype and work as well...

[Razor Lotus]

I think clears and blacks are worth a try if you're concerned on bottoming out.

If you're adventurous enough you can try modding the board and changing the switches. That way you're not limited by stock switches.

If you really really want, you can try linear greys. Which I don't suggest.

Like you, I also have a switch sampler and I too felt as though they wasn't much differences between the switches. But play with it a little more. Give yourself some time and let your fingers appreciate the different feels from the different switches.

Lastly, no one said that bottoming out was a crime. So it doesn't matter anyways as well haha. But since you've been using blues and want to give linear switches a try, I recommend going for blacks

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

Maybe try something other than Cherry like Topre or Matias.

[Defect]

Maybe try something other than Cherry like Topre or Matias.

Topre has a rough bottom out, since there is little support after the dome collapses.  This could be great for OP in that Topre embraces the bottom out.  Or could go horribly poorly if OP is trying to practice NOT bottoming out.

[TheMightySM]

Well I know bottoming out isn't a crime haha. I don't bottom out very hard either. I just complete the entire key movement all the way to the bottom. So I was just seeing if anyone else had a similar typing style and could recommend a switch they really like that is a little quieter than the blues. I will probably look at O-Rings too.

The noise isn't a giant issue, but it's just a quality of life thing I'm looking to explore since I'm looking to buy a new tenkeyless board down from this Full Blackwidow.

[tbc]

Maybe try something other than Cherry like Topre or Matias.

Topre has a rough bottom out

?

i say the exact opposite.

it has the softest bottom out because there is the rubber to absorb shock.

[1391406]

Why worry about bottoming out? I bottom out all the time. It feels natural. I type a lot slower when making a conscious effort not to.

[TheMightySM]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to bottom out. I accept it, I'm using it as a point to help narrow down my search for the right switch for me.

[Defect]

Maybe try something other than Cherry like Topre or Matias.

Topre has a rough bottom out

?

i say the exact opposite.

it has the softest bottom out because there is the rubber to absorb shock.

What I meant is that its impossible to not bottom out on a Topre, at least 55g.  With Ghost Blacks, the spring cushions your fingers and help slow you down as you bottom out, sometimes stopping the bottom out entirely.  Throw on o-rings (I dislike, personally) and its really really cushion-y.

I should pick words more carefully.  Sorry, I type on my phone most of the time here and get distracted easily.

[1391406]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to bottom out. I accept it, I'm using it as a point to help narrow down my search for the right switch for me.

If bottoming out isn't really an issue, in what way does it factor into your search?

[jester_]

Try tactile or linear MX greys. Very high actuation force and no click. I bottom out constantly as well and love my Filco w/ tactile greys. Can buy a 110-pack from MechanicalKeyboards and then have someone swap them all for you.

[TheMightySM]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to bottom out. I accept it, I'm using it as a point to help narrow down my search for the right switch for me.

If bottoming out isn't really an issue, in what way does it factor into your search?

Because I didn't like the Brown switches really, and I'm looking for a quieter switch than blues. It is hard to test and try all of the switches though in the right environment without spending money I don't have. So I was hoping someone else who has a heavier hand or typing style could vouch for a switch that they find comfortable or enjoyable to use.

Unfortunately google searches tend to yield results where people just say the features of the switches and what the consensus is that each switch is designed for. Their opinion also tends to be a restatement of what the key is or it doesn't make qualifying comparisons that give me an idea of what the switch feels like.

This switch has a harder spring to press than this one. That doesn't really help me. What does that mean? Do I fatigue faster? What kind of typist are you that causes you to say the harder spring/switch causes you to fatigue faster.

Sorry, don't mean to sound irritated. I just don't really have the means to try every single key to find what I'm looking for so I have to rely on other's experiences. It's also hard because this is a niche market so there is no real place for me to go and try this stuff and talk to people near me.

[tbc]

you're looking for something that's impossible.

it's the exact same problem as describing audio and color across the internet.

you DO need to test things in real life; if someone says you don't need to, they're lying.

you can get close, but chances are, you'll need to take 2 or 3 shots at it.


seriously.  just try clears or greys.  there's no way for us to give you a better answer until you do it yourself.

just keep in mind that no switch choice will be better than just learning not to bottom out.

[Defect]

I understand your frustration, and you're going to hate the answer everyone is giving.

But if you look around the forums, a lot of discussion and even debates rise because switch feel all comes down to personal preference.  And even within personal preference, mood can affect the feel as well.  For example, at work I an more likely to press harder on my keyboard so the Panda Clears feel amazing.  When I get home at night I need a lighter switch, so I rock my 62g blacks or my 62g clears.

Then there are days I need my buckling spring with all its glory.  Then a day later the noise is too irritating and I want linear switches again.

Your curiosity is either going to turn you into a keyboard fanatic like the rest of us, or maybe you'll somehow figure out how to exit this game.

I still recommend buckling spring if you're ok with noise (seems like you're not).  After that, as far as stock switches go, I recommend clears (and consider getting thick pbt caps).  And of course ghost blacks if you are able to try them (I do not recommend jumping straight into them.  They're god tier gaming, mediocre typing.  Try first).

Edit:
Force Graph:

Credit: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449

[Razor Lotus]

Because I didn't like the Brown switches really, and I'm looking for a quieter switch than blues. It is hard to test and try all of the switches though in the right environment without spending money I don't have. So I was hoping someone else who has a heavier hand or typing style could vouch for a switch that they find comfortable or enjoyable to use.

Unfortunately google searches tend to yield results where people just say the features of the switches and what the consensus is that each switch is designed for. Their opinion also tends to be a restatement of what the key is or it doesn't make qualifying comparisons that give me an idea of what the switch feels like.

This switch has a harder spring to press than this one. That doesn't really help me. What does that mean? Do I fatigue faster? What kind of typist are you that causes you to say the harder spring/switch causes you to fatigue faster.

Sorry, don't mean to sound irritated. I just don't really have the means to try every single key to find what I'm looking for so I have to rely on other's experiences. It's also hard because this is a niche market so there is no real place for me to go and try this stuff and talk to people near me.

Clears then

[D01]

I'm heavy handed and tend to bottom out most of the time.  If you don't mind the bottoming out then I think it really doesn't play into your switch choice.  If you don't really care for the browns, and don't like the sound of the blues if it was me I'd try something linear.

[Pacifist]

I find that even with stock clears, I bottom out. It feels quite nice too

[TheMightySM]

Haha alright, I appreciate all of your guys feedback and responses. I will probably be joining your fanatic ranks. I think first I'm going to give the clears a shot since this is on sale and the clears are harder to find:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al

I understand that it's tough for people to explain and stuff. I think I'll start with the clears and go from there. What do you guys think?

[Razor Lotus]

Haha alright, I appreciate all of your guys feedback and responses. I will probably be joining your fanatic ranks. I think first I'm going to give the clears a shot since this is on sale and the clears are harder to find:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al

I understand that it's tough for people to explain and stuff. I think I'll start with the clears and go from there. What do you guys think?

tbh im not sure if anyone has tried that cause I think it just came out haha

[TheMightySM]

Yea I know, but would waiting to see what people think before I buy be too long and do you think it would go out of stock?

[Pacifist]

Yea I know, but would waiting to see what people think before I buy be too long and do you think it would go out of stock?

Its preorder, but clears are pretty hot due to hype. If you truely want clears, order now

[TheMightySM]

Alright, thank you for the advice 

[rowdy]

Model M

I bottom out all the time, and seem to prefer greens or blacks.  Or Model M.

[aref]

I bottom-out all the switches I've owned; MX Red/Brown/Blue/Black/Green, Topre 45g and 55g/ IBM BS SSK. I switched to an MX Red keyboard and although I continue to bottom-out much of the time, I am using a lighter touch and the key switch is much quieter, if an MX switch can approach quiet, than the other Cherry switches I've owned. I haven't tried Clears, but I'm sure I'd bottom-out Clears, too.

The Corsair MX Red keyboard has been the best so far; I like more than a CMQFR I had with MX Red switches. The only difference between the K65 pictured and mine is that I just changed the key caps to all WASD black w/ white lettering. Actually, the WASD key caps feel nicer and I am typing more efficiently with them. It may be the caps' cylindrical profile.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Buckling Spring, Matias - maybe click, maybe quiet click, and/or possibly also Space Invaders.

Some suggestions because it sounds to me like you aren't actually an MX person but have only used those.

[Oobly]

.... I think I'll start with the clears and go from there. What do you guys think?

My first thought when I read the thread title was: Clears.

I think you've made the right decision. Clears are harder to bottom out than other MX switches and they actually feel better, IMO, when you do bottom out.

If you're okay with modding the switches, adding little pieces of rubber in the switches (trampoline mod) really helps the bottom out feel (better than orings), but try orings first to see if they help.

You may also like Matias Quiet switches.

[Tony]

Anyone migrating from membrane will bottom out most of the time - that's how membrane works.

I am very happy with 50% bottom out on my Filco brown. For blues, it should be 30%.

Don't try to not bottom out all the time, it breaks the typing flow.

[blackbox]

good luck with clears! I also wanted something heavier than mx browns on my Coolermaster quickfire xt and I switch swapped it with tactile greys. It helped alot. Clears might also help.

[0100010]

As others have suggested, try buckling spring.

[tp4tissue]

w

you're looking for something that's impossible.

it's the exact same problem as describing audio and color across the internet.

you DO need to test things in real life; if someone says you don't need to, they're lying.

you can get close, but chances are, you'll need to take 2 or 3 shots at it.


seriously.  just try clears or greys.  there's no way for us to give you a better answer until you do it yourself.

just keep in mind that no switch choice will be better than just learning not to bottom out.

with keyboards.. the break in period is around 10000 keypresses...  so.... consider that in your trial period...

[berserkfan]

Well I know bottoming out isn't a crime haha. I don't bottom out very hard either. I just complete the entire key movement all the way to the bottom. So I was just seeing if anyone else had a similar typing style and could recommend a switch they really like that is a little quieter than the blues. I will probably look at O-Rings too.

The noise isn't a giant issue, but it's just a quality of life thing I'm looking to explore since I'm looking to buy a new tenkeyless board down from this Full Blackwidow.

You should be one of the rare people who like tactile grays. Go ahead and buy one. EK.com seems to have them in stock still.

[allocerveau]

I don't quite understand why bottoming out is poorly looked upon. I believe it's just a different typing style.

[Defect]

I don't quite understand why bottoming out is poorly looked upon. I believe it's just a different typing style.

I think it's more that you don't HAVE to bottom out with MX switches,  so people want to see if they can take advantage of that and learn a new style.  Challenge is fun, new is fun.

[allocerveau]

I don't quite understand why bottoming out is poorly looked upon. I believe it's just a different typing style.

I think it's more that you don't HAVE to bottom out with MX switches,  so people want to see if they can take advantage of that and learn a new style.  Challenge is fun, new is fun.

Indeed. I had the feeling a lot of people tend to think not bottoming out is more "elite" somehow, which I don't think it is. But that's like, my opinion.

[tbc]

it's undeniably more quiet.  which is a quality a lot of people look for.

[rowdy]

it's undeniably more quiet.  which is a quality a lot of people look for.

O-rings.

[Melvang]

While bottoming out is not wrong persay, but it does promote RSI if you type for long periods of time.  If you can teach yourself to type without bottoming out, even with much heavier switches, it can lead to eased RSI symptoms.

[rowdy]

While bottoming out is not wrong persay, but it does promote RSI if you type for long periods of time.  If you can teach yourself to type without bottoming out, even with much heavier switches, it can lead to eased RSI symptoms.

Would you say that applied to Topre too?  I bottom out all the time, but on Topre (HHKB, 45g) it doesn't feel as rough as bottoming out on MX.

[Melvang]

While bottoming out is not wrong persay, but it does promote RSI if you type for long periods of time.  If you can teach yourself to type without bottoming out, even with much heavier switches, it can lead to eased RSI symptoms.

Would you say that applied to Topre too?  I bottom out all the time, but on Topre (HHKB, 45g) it doesn't feel as rough as bottoming out on MX.

It should apply to any key switch where you have impact stresses at the bottom of the keystroke.  Though depending on the design of the key switch, the stresses may be reduced.  I have not used Topre switches so I can't speak for the way bottoming out those feels.

[rowdy]

While bottoming out is not wrong persay, but it does promote RSI if you type for long periods of time.  If you can teach yourself to type without bottoming out, even with much heavier switches, it can lead to eased RSI symptoms.

Would you say that applied to Topre too?  I bottom out all the time, but on Topre (HHKB, 45g) it doesn't feel as rough as bottoming out on MX.

It should apply to any key switch where you have impact stresses at the bottom of the keystroke.  Though depending on the design of the key switch, the stresses may be reduced.  I have not used Topre switches so I can't speak for the way bottoming out those feels.

Topre switch is sort of opposite to MX - all the resistance is at the top of the stroke.  Once you have overcome that, the switch just glides to the bottom of the stroke.  Then the rubber dome decompresses as the switch rises, resulting in that oh-so-nice thock as the key returns to its upper position.

[False_Dmitry_II]

While bottoming out is not wrong persay, but it does promote RSI if you type for long periods of time.  If you can teach yourself to type without bottoming out, even with much heavier switches, it can lead to eased RSI symptoms.

Yeah, but near as I can tell, some people are disposed towards developing RSI symptoms, and others aren't.

[daerid]

Yeah, but near as I can tell, some people are disposed towards developing RSI symptoms, and others aren't.

QFT. I've been using standard typing on standard staggered QWERTY boards for 20+ years now and have never dealt with RSI, while I have friends who can't use a keyboard for more than a few hours at a time because of it

Topre switch is sort of opposite to MX - all the resistance is at the top of the stroke.  Once you have overcome that, the switch just glides to the bottom of the stroke.  Then the rubber dome decompresses as the switch rises, resulting in that oh-so-nice thock as the key returns to its upper position.

I always  heard the thock on the downstroke (the sound of the air escaping coupled with the acoustic dampening caused by the rubber). The upstroke just always sounded like a typical clack to me

[CPTBadAss]

I regularly type on Greens and Buckling Springs, I always bottom out. Same thing with Clears.

OP, if you're willing to be patient, you can always try and attend a meetup to try out keyboards without buying anything. That's how I tried many switches.