Romer-G mechanical switches

[korrelate]

Okay... I just tried out that new board of Logitech's and I have to say that these switches feel pretty damn good.

Those keycaps though, man what a tragedy. I thought it was impossible for someone to make a board that looked more stupid than the BW (or the latest Cherry Boards for that matter) but boy did Logitech suprise me.

I don't really even care about the backlighting. I want a decent set of caps, loose switches and a pcb for these like STAT.


Cheers,

K

[munch]

that good? very interesting. I haven't looked them up much but... they're linear right?

[Hyde]

They're tactile like MX Brown.  I'm curious to try them out too lol.

[tp4tissue]

I'm more excited for the laptop magnet keys..

Wish that came in an ergo form factor..

[munch]

ahh. tactile hmmmm. well that saves me the trouble.

[_PixelNinja]

Is it me or has there been very little feedback from the community on the G930 and the Omron Romer-Gs? 

[Puddsy]

Is it me or has there been very little feedback from the community on the G930 and the Omron Romer-Gs?

Still new. People are avoiding it because it's not MX.

[SpicyLobotomy]

Is it me or has there been very little feedback from the community on the G930 and the Omron Romer-Gs?

Still new. People are avoiding it because it's not MX.

I wanted to pick one up, but like the OP said, you can't swap out the caps at this point. Not much point in buying a board for 200 bucks if I can't make it pretty right? 

I did go to the local Bestbuy to try it out and it didn't feel like anything special to me. Granted that was like 3 key presses before I had to shuffle along.

[FrostyToast]

Like OP said, the caps look like ****.
Most gaudy ****ing thing that I have ever laid eyes upon and I don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole; since of course no one can type with a 10-foot pole. Would be glad to try it out at the least.

[korrelate]

LOL... I thought the g710 was gaudy until I noticed this thing: this is like watching a Unicorn take three hits of acid AFTER 4 hours of nasty sex and then getting annihilated-drunk on Zima in cheap bar in Tahoe. Whatever happens next you know it ain't gonna pretty.

Next to that the g710 seriously looks conservative.

And one more thing... is that "G" thing really working for anybody? Is that supposed to look tough? Jes*s F***ing Chr*st who was the focus group for this thing? Wham? And I don't mean fans of Wham: I mean Wham.

[RoflCopter4]

I don't get it. Not using MX switches should be an excellent reason to buy the thing, not a reason to avoid it.

[Oobly]

I don't get it. Not using MX switches should be an excellent reason to buy the thing, not a reason to avoid it.

ROFL:ROFL:ROFL:ROFL
         _^___
 L    __/   [] \   
LOL===__        \
 L      \________]
         I   I
        --------/

I like my (very heavily modifed) MX Clears! Vintage Blacks are also okay, but I don't like linear switches, so... It's only the Clears I bother with nowadays. Really interested to try these Romer-G switches, but I'm not paying to bring a board that looks like that into my house and I don't care too much for backlighting. I quite like what they've done with the shape of the keycap tops in terms of how they must feel to use, but I suppose I'm in the minority there.

Is the bump more "present" than on Browns? If so, this could be a nice switch. Hopefully they bring out another, cheaper, less gimmicky board with them,

[korrelate]

I don't get it. Not using MX switches should be an excellent reason to buy the thing, not a reason to avoid it.

See the OP: I love the switches; I'm just disgusted by everything else about this board (and pretty much by the looks of everything Logitech is making these days). I mean look at the G9x (apart from the running-man LED that thing looks amazing : compare that to these new G-series mice and all I have to say is "BARF.").

[korrelate]

@ Oobly,

I started with browns and have 55g Clears now (I wish I would have gone straight to 55g and just bypassed 62g... VesperSaint was right all along) so I think we look for some of the same characteristics in our switches.

That said, these felt more tactile than I remember browns being and perhaps a little less tactile than my currently configured clears. Very different switch. If they can manage to get these things into a respectable board then they might have something here.... but until then I bet a lot of 13 year olds are going to ask for this for Xmas (but not many others).


Cheers,

K

[FrostyToast]

It would really help if these things were compatible with cherry caps.
Would it make it harder and more expensive?
Yes.

Would it be impossible?
**** no, in fact I can clearly see that they can put an mx stem on the god damn thing.

[Findecanor]

It would really help if these things were compatible with cherry caps.

I don't think that is a bad thing. The Romer-G switch has backlighting in the centre, done precisely right.
Backlit Cherry keycaps often have the legends in weird places just to make it possible that they would be lit from a LED in that weird place and there is a lot of light bleed.

[FrostyToast]

It would really help if these things were compatible with cherry caps.

I don't think that is a bad thing. The Romer-G switch has backlighting in the centre, done precisely right.
Backlit Cherry keycaps often have the legends in weird places just to make it possible that they would be lit from a LED in that weird place and there is a lot of light bleed.

One way around it like Cherry did in collaboration with corsair was to make the housing transparent. That wouldn't be a perfect solution, but if you wanted that gaudy look to it, that would work just fine.
I like innovation in the space, but stems are a thing that we really need a universal solution for.

[Findecanor]

One way around it like Cherry did in collaboration with corsair was to make the housing transparent.

That is not at all around it. Well, yes, it is technically lighting around the part of the key that you want to light.
Transparent switches have more lightbleed, not less.

A better solution would have been to have a transparent light guide from the PCB through the switch to a corner, or to a side, with black plastic all around, ... but Cherry cheapened out and changed nothing but the plastic of the keycap housing.

[Jumpjet]

I'm tempted to do a full review of the G910, as I've got one sitting here alongside a Corsair K95 RGB (MX Brown), and my rather wonderful Filco Multicam MX Blue board with Filco doubleshot caps. Ideally I'd like a Topre board to try against the G910, but never mind.

Briefly then, the board is aimed squarely at gaming, and it does this extremely well. Certainly the Corsair is an extremely nice board to use for typing and gaming, as is the Filco of course, the G910 responsiveness is noticeably sharper than either of the other two. The switch feel radically different from the MX Brown. My initial impression was that Logitech/Omron had created a mechanical rubber dome! After a few minutes of typing, I really started to warm to the Romer switch. On the down stroke, there's an initial resistance as you push through a soft tactile bump, before the stroke quickly becomes linear. The stroke distance is shorter than a Cherry, and bottoming-out feels satisfyingly dampened: More of a 'thump' than a Cherry 'thock!' The Romer stroke has a slightly chalky feel compared to the smooth travel of a Cherry, but it's in no way unpleasant. The caps are very stable and feel extremely sturdy. The typing experience has a 'meaty' sensation, while at the same time feeling extremely light and responsive.

I dismissed the Romer when I heard that Logitech was 'developing their own switch', but when I realised that Omron was involved with that development, it hinted that something a bit special might be happening. Judging by the switches in the K910, I can't wait to see what comes next. I gather that Logitech has an exclusivity on the Romer initially. How long that lasts depends on how deep that design partnership was of course. These switches are no flash-in-the-pans though, They're a stone-cold serious bit of design.

To very quickly compare the three board together (as well as the dismal, appalling Razer Chroma with its joke switches), the G910 comes out on top as a gaming device, and not by a nose, but by a wide margin. The Corsair is a stunningly nice board, but those Cherry RGB switches spill light everywhere, making it very hard to achieve any sort of practically distinctive short cut zones. It's not helped by the Cherry's inability to light up anything on the lower half of a key cap. The G910 absolutely nails the RGB as a gaming tool. It's nowhere near as pretty or artistic as Corsair's, but it's a damned sight more useful for either gaming or typing.



Hmm...Well, it's not quite as mad-looking in reality. With the lights off, it's surprisingly restrained for Logitech!

[CPTBadAss]

Serious question: Does anyone want to pool money to buy a board and then do a tour within the buyer pool?

[johndavis33]

I'm tempted to do a full review of the G910, as I've got one sitting here alongside a Corsair K95 RGB (MX Brown), and my rather wonderful Filco Multicam MX Blue board with Filco doubleshot caps. Ideally I'd like a Topre board to try against the G910, but never mind.

Briefly then, the board is aimed squarely at gaming, and it does this extremely well. Certainly the Corsair is an extremely nice board to use for typing and gaming, as is the Filco of course, the G910 responsiveness is noticeably sharper than either of the other two. The switch feel radically different from the MX Brown. My initial impression was that Logitech/Omron had created a mechanical rubber dome! After a few minutes of typing, I really started to warm to the Romer switch. On the down stroke, there's an initial resistance as you push through a soft tactile bump, before the stroke quickly becomes linear. The stroke distance is shorter than a Cherry, and bottoming-out feels satisfyingly dampened: More of a 'thump' than a Cherry 'thock!' The Romer stroke has a slightly chalky feel compared to the smooth travel of a Cherry, but it's in no way unpleasant. The caps are very stable and feel extremely sturdy. The typing experience has a 'meaty' sensation, while at the same time feeling extremely light and responsive.

I dismissed the Romer when I heard that Logitech was 'developing their own switch', but when I realised that Omron was involved with that development, it hinted that something a bit special might be happening. Judging by the switches in the K910, I can't wait to see what comes next. I gather that Logitech has an exclusivity on the Romer initially. How long that lasts depends on how deep that design partnership was of course. These switches are no flash-in-the-pans though, They're a stone-cold serious bit of design.

To very quickly compare the three board together (as well as the dismal, appalling Razer Chroma with its joke switches), the G910 comes out on top as a gaming device, and not by a nose, but by a wide margin. The Corsair is a stunningly nice board, but those Cherry RGB switches spill light everywhere, making it very hard to achieve any sort of practically distinctive short cut zones. It's not helped by the Cherry's inability to light up anything on the lower half of a key cap. The G910 absolutely nails the RGB as a gaming tool. It's nowhere near as pretty or artistic as Corsair's, but it's a damned sight more useful for either gaming or typing.

Did I say 'briefly then'?

Does the RGB backlighting really help with gaming, in anyway? I mean, I could see how different lighting zones could be useful for a simulator like ARMA 3 with a lot of different keymappings, but wouldn't it do more to distract most gamers who already know where the keys are?

[CPTBadAss]

Does the RGB backlighting really help with gaming, in anyway?

It gives +50 APM or +50 accuracy. Duh.

[Jumpjet]

Definitely, In games like Elite: Dangerous, DCS, Il2 there are a lot of short-cuts that are handy to know but seldom used. Being able to define them in some visual way is a good thing. Besides, gaming keyboards, RGB lighting...it's all part of the performance of gaming isn't it? Useful yes, but never truly essential. For me, the Romer switches are the most interesting thing about the G910.

[bhtooefr]

For me, it feels like a MX brown that can't take an off center hit well. And seeing as I'm no fan of the MX brown...

The keycaps on the left hand feel a bit like sphericals, though, so it has that going for it, but the right hand caps don't...

And, MX compatibility completely misses the point of what the switch is for, and that's optimized backlighting. Mind you, I don't actually care about backlighting, but this is the best backlighting I've seen on a mechanical board by far, and it can't be done with MX sliders (even clear ones wouldn't work well).

I reviewed the board over here: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/logitech-g910-orion-spark-t9232.html

[Jumpjet]

In my side by side test with Cherry Blues and Browns, I found the Romer to be a much better gaming switch.  I don't think it should be dismissed as some sort of budget MX Brown variant. It's definitely bringing something new to the table.

[Altis]

It is interesting to see quite a few are judging this keyboard for it's gaming looks and gaming feel (especially the keycaps)... it seems to me we have tons of plain-looking serious-typing keyboards already.

I'm happy they are trying new things that might work in a specific application. I think the channeled keycaps might actually be good for gaming (while miserable for typing), in addition to the more shorter strokes.

The backlighting is pretty neat too. It's no different than people putting different color keycaps on WASD, for example. It might not actually help you, but it might make it more unique or fun somehow.. and that's really what it's all about.

The looks are a bit over the top for me personally, but it's always interesting to see something new and different come along for those who do like that type of thing. It's definitely a funky looking board purpose built for gaming, and I think it's cool that some people are actually trying to develop new switches.

[hwood34]

Wow, you weren't kidding. That thing is atrocious looking

[Hellcatz]

Is it me or has there been very little feedback from the community on the G930 and the Omron Romer-Gs?

Still new. People are avoiding it because it's not MX.

perhaps they will make a mx compatible version kinda like wat cooler master did

[Findecanor]

How do the switches feel on off-centre key presses?  If you press one of the 1.5u wide keys at the edge, is the key action as smooth as ever or does it lock up like on a Microsoft rubber dome?

[Hellcatz]

How do the switches feel on off-centre key presses?  If you press one of the 1.5u wide keys at the edge, is the key action as smooth as ever or does it lock up like on a Microsoft rubber dome?

Linustechtips on youtube did a review and said that they kinda feel like rubber domes mix with mx reds

[Jumpjet]

How do the switches feel on off-centre key presses?  If you press one of the 1.5u wide keys at the edge, is the key action as smooth as ever or does it lock up like on a Microsoft rubber dome?

Funnily enough I've just been testing offset strikes against my Filco blue. There's no lock-up and very little binding if you apply pressure to any of the four sides. Under normal typing pressure, the feel of the switch is practically the same wherever the keycap is struck. That's a bit of an achievement given the wide surface area of the stem.

Regarding the feel of the switch compared to rubber domes, there is that impression initially, but the action is Much more sophisticated. The initial tactile bump moves into linear travel that then ramps up in resistance as the spring compresses and the switch bottoms out. This contributes to the dampening felt when the switch reaches the end of its travel.

While it sounds very rubber dome-ish, the switch action is unmistakably mechanical and feels very stable and sturdy. The shorter travel distance and very fast actuation gives the switch a very distinctive character.  If I were to choose a comparison with another type of switch, it wouldn't be a rubber dome, but rather a tactile Cherry Red, but not a Brown!

For me, after years of Cherries and and the occasional Alp, it's really refreshing to see a decent new switch. Sitting here with Browns and Blues to compare agains, I'm not thinking that the Romer are inferior in quality by any means; just very different. I love that.

[RoflCopter4]

I have to say, even though I have not tried this keyboard yet, I don't know why anyone would want to quickly dismiss it. What is wrong with developing new kinds of switches? Isn't that exactly the sort of thing we should be encouraging? Trying out new, differnt switches is, after all, probably the most exciting aspect of mechanical keyboards. I don't see why anyone would care whether or not a keyswitch is MX compatible. Why does it matter?

Furthermore, confirmation bias is a hell of a drug; if you go into trying it with the expectation that it will suck then it will. I don't think that should even need to be said.

[berserkfan]

How do the switches feel on off-centre key presses?  If you press one of the 1.5u wide keys at the edge, is the key action as smooth as ever or does it lock up like on a Microsoft rubber dome?

Funnily enough I've just been testing offset strikes against my Filco blue. There's no lock-up and very little binding if you apply pressure to any of the four sides. Under normal typing pressure, the feel of the switch is practically the same wherever the keycap is struck. That's a bit of an achievement given the wide surface area of the stem.

Regarding the feel of the switch compared to rubber domes, there is that impression initially, but the action is Much more sophisticated. The initial tactile bump moves into linear travel that then ramps up in resistance as the spring compresses and the switch bottoms out. This contributes to the dampening felt when the switch reaches the end of its travel.

While it sounds very rubber dome-ish, the switch action is unmistakably mechanical and feels very stable and sturdy. The shorter travel distance and very fast actuation gives the switch a very distinctive character.  If I were to choose a comparison with another type of switch, it wouldn't be a rubber dome, but rather a tactile Cherry Red, but not a Brown!

For me, after years of Cherries and and the occasional Alp, it's really refreshing to see a decent new switch. Sitting here with Browns and Blues to compare agains, I'm not thinking that the Romer are inferior in quality by any means; just very different. I love that.

Based on the stuff I have been hearing it seems that Romer G are really not bad at all. But Logitech's skimping on the keycaps is the killer. Many companies just don't 'get it'. Buyers and users don't interact with the plate and other internals. They interact only with the keycaps. If they are likely to break the keycaps, they will feel the keyboard is fragile and lousy.

[ComradeSniper]

Serious question: Does anyone want to pool money to buy a board and then do a tour within the buyer pool?

I'd definitely be interested in this.

[bhtooefr]

For what it's worth, I don't think the G910 caps would be likely to break, and pulling them is extremely easy (even without any keypuller) and unlikely to cause damage.

However, they are translucent plastic with a coating, and then the coating lasered away to form the legend, so they are prone to the legends wearing off, and that will look ugly before too long.

[LinkPro]

Even if the switches are good, the keycaps don't look so much that for me. I don't like the new G series design either, but I guess it's what sells, can't blame Logitech for that. 

[Puddsy]

I think I'm gonna try and get one of these. A buddy of mine (online) got one, and has been raving about it moreso than I do about the KUL. I think I need to get one to see what all the hype is about.

[Lunatique]

Regarding the usefulness of backlit keys in full color--it can be as useful as you want it to be--if you are a visual person and play games that have lots of shortcuts, and especially if you're just learning a new game's controls.

For example, I tend to customize the RGB keys with this approach:

-WASD are usully in white.
-Movement modifiers (walk/run, crouch, prone, peeking, etc) are in brown color (I associate brown with dirt, and we walk on dirt).
-Health potion/med kit shortcuts are in red/pink.
-Magic/mana potions are in blue/purple.
-Inventory/Map/Journal are in shades of green, teal, yellow-green.
-Weapons are in orange and yellow. If there are a wide range of firearm and melee weapons, then more hue variants will help differentiate them.
-Flashlight in pale yellow

You get the idea.


-Inventory and maps are in green/yellow

[RoflCopter4]

So are they "tactile" (no number of scare quotes is adequate) like MX Brown or are they actually tactile like Alps black or orange/salmon?

[Huxley2500]

What is the difference?

[Jumpjet]

So are they "tactile" (no number of scare quotes is adequate) like MX Brown or are they actually tactile like Alps black or orange/salmon?

The tactile element sits so high in the travel that you blow though it as soon as you hit the key.

[Jumpjet]

Well, I've spent a month with the G910 now, so I guess I can offer up a fairly useful medium term conclusion, and it's this: I'm still not sure about it!

The short travel makes it a better FPS switch than Topre or Cherry, and the same short travel makes for a rapid typing experience. There's a chalkiness to the switches though, and this never faded through use. If the G910 was your only board, then I doubt you'd notice it, but unfortunately for the Romer, I've got a gaggle of Cherries and Realforce sitting around. The Romer feels very unrefined in comparison. Mind you, the Cherries feel unrefined compared to the Realforce!

The lighting, robustness of the build, and general design of the G910 has been fine to live with. I've got a real soft spot for it in fact, and I do really like what Logitech has done with the Romer, but this is a game controller first and foremost.

My exceptionally nice Topre HiPro now lives permanently on my desk and handles both games and work with equal ability. The G910 held it off for longer than I'd have expected though....

[gmorf33]

I've been out of the loop on keyboard news the last year, and I ran into this keyboard at best buy yesterday.  I was intrigued by it and initially really liked how it felt.  I was confused though because i didn't know there was a new player in the market and it obviously felt different to anything else i'd tried previously (browns, blacks, blues, reds).  When i pulled off a keycap to investigate i was like "um, say what???"   so i checked out the box to see what these new fangled switches were.

The main thing i didn't like about the Romer-g's was how high the reset point felt.  While i loved the feel of the romer-g's on the initial key press and typing, i didn't like how it felt for quick repeated "tapping", which i do a lot of in RTS gaming.  It felt like i had to slow down to reset the key and tap again.  Maybe it's just because i'm used to MX Browns (filco & wasdkeyboards) that it was enough of a difference to throw me off?

Anyway, very interesting switch.  Definitely worth trying out, even if the keyboard is excessively gaudy and excessively priced.  Hopefully we see some keyboards with these switches at a better price point.

[CaplockJack]

The G910 is a great gaming keyboard!

[computernut]

I tried a Logitech G910 that was out on demo at the local computer store and I was quite impressed by the key switches. I wasn't too fond of the shaped key caps but if the keyboard goes on a good sale I might pick one up.

[RominRonin]

So are they "tactile" (no number of scare quotes is adequate) like MX Brown or are they actually tactile like Alps black or orange/salmon?

What is the difference?

Yeah (having never used alps/matias linears), what is the difference?

So are they "tactile" (no number of scare quotes is adequate) like MX Brown or are they actually tactile like Alps black or orange/salmon?

The tactile element sits so high in the travel that you blow though it as soon as you hit the key.

I actually love how close the tactile bump is to the top. I bought this keyboard after trying all the boards in the shop (20-30) - I preferred this to the blue, red and brown (and membrane) boards on display. They just felt so quick to type on.

My desire for custom layouts led me to invest in gateron browns (recommended to me by many as 'closest to romer-g'). Different, but close.

I now prefer gateron yellows to browns due to how quick they are to type on - although I occasionally miss the slight, high bump.

Reading through this post and what I've just written, I think I might actually prefer romer-g's still. I need to try them. I still have the board.

Has anyone successfully harvested the switches and made their own board? I don't like legacy layouts at all.

[Lunatique]

I got a G410 a few days ago, and to me, the Romer-G feels like something between brown and clear Cherry MX, but with higher actuation point and shorter travel, as well as softer landing.

[quasistellar]

So are they "tactile" (no number of scare quotes is adequate) like MX Brown or are they actually tactile like Alps black or orange/salmon?

What is the difference?

Yeah (having never used alps/matias linears), what is the difference?

So are they "tactile" (no number of scare quotes is adequate) like MX Brown or are they actually tactile like Alps black or orange/salmon?

The tactile element sits so high in the travel that you blow though it as soon as you hit the key.

I actually love how close the tactile bump is to the top. I bought this keyboard after trying all the boards in the shop (20-30) - I preferred this to the blue, red and brown (and membrane) boards on display. They just felt so quick to type on.

My desire for custom layouts led me to invest in gateron browns (recommended to me by many as 'closest to romer-g'). Different, but close.

I now prefer gateron yellows to browns due to how quick they are to type on - although I occasionally miss the slight, high bump.

Reading through this post and what I've just written, I think I might actually prefer romer-g's still. I need to try them. I still have the board.

Has anyone successfully harvested the switches and made their own board? I don't like legacy layouts at all.

The high tactile point, actuation, and soft landing is exactly why I like them.  I just wish the frame and keycaps were nicer :/

[daerid]

If you want to get your hands on Romer-G but without the atrociously tacky looks, give the G810 a shot:



Amazon.

[Lunatique]

If you want to get your hands on Romer-G but without the atrociously tacky looks, give the G810 a shot:

Show Image

Amazon.

If they had that as a TKL, I would've gotten it instead of the ugly G410 with that idiotic angled wrist rest. It is completely useless because your wrist can't even actually rest on it. It only reaches to about half of your palm, so how the hell can it be a wrist rest? It's not even a hand rest. This "gamer aesthetic" BS is just so pointless and silly, and I hate it with a passion. I don't mind when it's actually ergonomic and functional, but when it's done for useless or obtrusive visual flare, it pisses me off.