Author Topic: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy  (Read 7939 times)

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Offline vivalarevolución

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Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 16:13:00 »
Thank god.  Can we stop acting like we live in a democracy now?

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 16:58:25 »
hahahahahaha..

I think this probably comes as a shock to lower income people, that their votes don't matter..


But middle income and above,  they're all quite aware of THE GAME...

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 16:58:43 »
this is news?
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Offline digi

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 17:00:49 »

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 17:04:19 »
this is news?

Especially since it's Carter.  Now if it was a Bush or the ghost of Reagan, that would be huge.

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 17:41:55 »
*distant snickering*
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 18:08:10 »
this is news?

I thought it was interesting that a former president openly admitted it, rather than the usual ra-ra patriotic nonsense we hear from the top politicians.

But now that I think about, anybody at the top of the pile knows this place is an oligarchy that to get to the top of the pile.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 18:47:53 »
I thought it was interesting that a former president openly admitted it,

Jimmy Carter is the only president in my lifetime willing to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

That is why so many people have tried so hard, unsuccessfully, to denigrate him.

I would be hard-pressed to name a human being who I admire more, even though I think that his religious beliefs are ridiculous.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline kurplop

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 19:07:54 »


I would be hard-pressed to name a human being who I admire more, even though I think that his religious beliefs are ridiculous.


That funny. I would be hard pressed to name a human being who I admire more, even though I think his political beliefs are ridiculous!

Offline ConscienceDrop

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 19:59:24 »
Oligarchy is probably better anyways tbh.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 21:21:40 »
Oligarchy is probably better anyways tbh.

Only if they were perfectly moral and ethical people. The problem is when an oligarchy is run by people trying to remain in power and retain and grow their wealth.  I don't know of a single oligarchy that didn't devolve into a group of people trying to maintain their power at the expense of those they're over. 

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 31 July 2015, 22:56:37 »
Oligarchy is probably better anyways tbh.

Only if they were perfectly moral and ethical people.

The same can be said about democracy. Scumbags voting for scumbags = scumbag gov't.

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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 01 August 2015, 07:26:15 »
Oligarchy is probably better anyways tbh.

Only if they were perfectly moral and ethical people.

The same can be said about democracy. Scumbags voting for scumbags = scumbag gov't.

Vote for Trump!
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Offline Ngt

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 01 August 2015, 07:58:05 »
We don't have ethical people at the head of the government plus they can be funded by other non-ethical big money guys. So you just end up with a bunch of jerks ruling the world and serving their own interests. That's why so many problems haven't found solution in multiple decades.

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Offline Lord of Narwhals

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 01 August 2015, 08:27:52 »
How to US capitalism:
  • ****ty voting system.
  • Little to no regulations on big companies.
  • Legally allowed bribes (known as lobbying).
With these three steps an oligarchy is inevitable.

Regarding the problem with people voting for ****ty candidates the explanation is simple: people are selfish and easily manipulated.
I can recommend watching the fantastic documentary series The Century of the Self.
Episodes:
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  • About how Freud's theories influenced both companies and politics.

  • About the counter culture and how they ironically became even better and more easily manipulated customers.
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    About how/why politics in the US/UK became more and more like a business in which voters are seen more as customers and less as citizens.
« Last Edit: Sat, 01 August 2015, 08:29:49 by Lord of Narwhals »
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 11:26:26 »
Of course... basically every government in the world is an oligarchy, as they are all ran by the same group of 1% of the richest people... the only exception is dictatorships who don't give a ****.

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 11:30:05 »
Vote for Trump!

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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 12:28:41 »
Of course... basically every government in the world is an oligarchy, as they are all ran by the same group of 1% of the richest people... the only exception is dictatorships who don't give a ****.

Not necessarily true, and certainly not inevitable.

But citizens who do not vote are helping to ensure the worst possible outcomes for their countries.

Worse, they are squandering the precious votes that hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people fought and gave their lives to win, over the course of nearly 2 and a half centuries.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 12:48:16 »
Of course... basically every government in the world is an oligarchy, as they are all ran by the same group of 1% of the richest people... the only exception is dictatorships who don't give a ****.

Not necessarily true, and certainly not inevitable.

But citizens who do not vote are helping to ensure the worst possible outcomes for their countries.

Worse, they are squandering the precious votes that hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people fought and gave their lives to win, over the course of nearly 2 and a half centuries.


Fohat.. They didn't win democracy,  perhaps most of them FOUGHT for it.. but it has always been an oligarchy, regardless what any pieces of paper says.


As soon as Some guy gets cushy,  and doesn't have to work as hard as his fellow man for greater pay..  THAT GUY becomes corrupt.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 13:51:52 »
As soon as Some guy gets cushy,  and doesn't have to work as hard as his fellow man for greater pay..  THAT GUY becomes corrupt.

I am getting really angry at the blind arrogant infantile stupidity of every post-Vietnam generation.

They pretend that they are so ****ing wise and insightful that they need to climb onto a pedestal of apathy to protest the ugliness of the world.

Your are an idiot and deserve whatever Republican you help to put into office by not supporting the true champions of the true citizens of this country.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline saturnotaku

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 14:28:10 »
Your are an idiot

A+

Quote
and deserve whatever Republican you help to put into office by not supporting the true champions of the true citizens of this country.

You mean those two 70+ year old, white douchebags running on the dem side? The ones that took $27 million from Goldman Sachs and $44 million from Soros Fund Management?

And if Plugs Biden enters the race, among him, Clinton and Sanders, they will have been in Washington a combined total of 94 years as of January 2017.
« Last Edit: Sun, 02 August 2015, 14:32:52 by saturnotaku »

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 14:43:52 »

You mean those two 70+ year old, white douchebags running on the dem side? The ones that took $27 million from Goldman Sachs and $44 million from Soros Fund Management?

And if Plugs Biden enters the race, among him, Clinton and Sanders, they will have been in Washington a combined total of 94 years as of January 2017.

How dare you call Bernie Sanders a douchebag.

But, to answer your unwritten question, yes, absolutely anything is better than the alternative.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 14:52:08 »
Your are an idiot

A+

Quote
and deserve whatever Republican you help to put into office by not supporting the true champions of the true citizens of this country.

You mean those two 70+ year old, white douchebags running on the dem side? The ones that took $27 million from Goldman Sachs and $44 million from Soros Fund Management?

And if Plugs Biden enters the race, among him, Clinton and Sanders, they will have been in Washington a combined total of 94 years as of January 2017.

Sanders practices what he preaches and doesn't take corporate sponsors.  I don't agree with him on some things, but he is worlds better than the likes of Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Donald Trump, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, and Rand Paul. 

Also, I strongly dislike Clinton.  She'll change her tune based on the political climate and her corporate sponsors.  If it was between her and one of the crazy Republicans, I'd probably vote Green Party or Libertarian because they're all terrible options.

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 14:54:50 »
As soon as Some guy gets cushy,  and doesn't have to work as hard as his fellow man for greater pay..  THAT GUY becomes corrupt.

I am getting really angry at the blind arrogant infantile stupidity of every post-Vietnam generation.

They pretend that they are so ****ing wise and insightful that they need to climb onto a pedestal of apathy to protest the ugliness of the world.

Your are an idiot and deserve whatever Republican you help to put into office by not supporting the true champions of the true citizens of this country.



But  fohat..   You're part of the corruption..  you've silently accepted the general exploitation of lesser nations by bathing in American abundance..

Whatever your beliefs, whatever you say,  is at best an attempt to ameliorate your own guilt.

Because in truth,  your actions are Aligned with the Pyramid down agenda..

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 15:05:09 »
If it was between her and one of the crazy Republicans, I'd probably vote Green Party or Libertarian because they're all terrible options.

Whatever you do, don't do that!

Locked in a 2-party system, you must ALWAYS choose the lesser of the 2 evils!

And I totally agree with you, Hillary Clinton is personally repugnant and this country really needs at least 2 more viable parties.

But as I said earlier, people MUST stop voting for people and start voting for ideas.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 15:15:37 »

As soon as Some guy gets cushy,  and doesn't have to work as hard as his fellow man for greater pay..  THAT GUY becomes corrupt.

I am getting really angry at the blind arrogant infantile stupidity of every post-Vietnam generation.

They pretend that they are so ****ing wise and insightful that they need to climb onto a pedestal of apathy to protest the ugliness of the world.

Your are an idiot and deserve whatever Republican you help to put into office by not supporting the true champions of the true citizens of this country.

Huh. So stereotyping an entire generation or two is somehow not a similarly stupid thing to do? Got it.  :thumb:

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 15:23:23 »

As soon as Some guy gets cushy,  and doesn't have to work as hard as his fellow man for greater pay..  THAT GUY becomes corrupt.

I am getting really angry at the blind arrogant infantile stupidity of every post-Vietnam generation.

They pretend that they are so ****ing wise and insightful that they need to climb onto a pedestal of apathy to protest the ugliness of the world.

Your are an idiot and deserve whatever Republican you help to put into office by not supporting the true champions of the true citizens of this country.

Huh. So stereotyping an entire generation or two is somehow not a similarly stupid thing to do? Got it.  :thumb:

It is general practice to wait for the incumbent power holders to DIE..

But, TBH,  the world doesn't really change,  once a human is in a position of power, he behaves quite predictably..


This is a shortcoming of man,  not really the fault of choice....  it will happen regardless of who we put in the hot seat.




Except Tp4...  Tp4 guarantees rights... and Ergodoxes for all.. covered under Tp4 Cares.

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 15:24:06 »

Jed Blush, Ted Snooze, Don't Trump/Dankald Mememp, ****e ****abee, Flobby Kenndal, Frick Perry, Tick Sanpoorum, Marco Doobieo, Snott Walker, and Bland Pul.
i have taken this oppurtunity to make poorly thought out not funny names
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👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good **** go౦ԁ ****👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌**** right👌👌th 👌 ere👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯  i say so 💯  thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good ****

Offline kurplop

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 15:29:06 »
While it is not a pure democracy, the representative republic that we in the US enjoy is probably a good compromise and one worth protecting while trying to improve it.  I agree with fohat that we must resist apathy and instead, participate in the system that we have. Part of our responsibilities as citizens is to become well informed about the candidates and issues so that our voting decisions are based on thoughtful analysis and not just clever slogans, which way the winds are blowing, or which celebrity is endorsing them.

To become well informed means more than watching your favorite news show or reading a certain political blogster. I would recommend spending at least 2 hours following sources that differ from your present position for every hour among "allies". Make yourself a little uncomfortable. You may find that the so called other side has some good points that shouldn't be so quickly dismissed. The worst indoctrination comes from an exclusive diet from sources you already agree with. They reinforce possible misconceptions you may have and probably mischaracterize the opposing position. This exercise will also give you a broader base to understand the positions you finally adopt.


Offline kurplop

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 15:36:20 »


But, TBH,  the world doesn't really change,  once a human is in a position of power, he behaves quite predictably..


This is a shortcoming of man,  not really the fault of choice....  it will happen regardless of who we put in the hot seat.




"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."  Abraham Lincoln

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 15:49:11 »
While it is not a pure democracy, the representative republic that we in the US enjoy is probably a good compromise and one worth protecting while trying to improve it.  I agree with fohat that we must resist apathy and instead, participate in the system that we have. Part of our responsibilities as citizens is to become well informed about the candidates and issues so that our voting decisions are based on thoughtful analysis and not just clever slogans, which way the winds are blowing, or which celebrity is endorsing them.

To become well informed means more than watching your favorite news show or reading a certain political blogster. I would recommend spending at least 2 hours following sources that differ from your present position for every hour among "allies". Make yourself a little uncomfortable. You may find that the so called other side has some good points that shouldn't be so quickly dismissed. The worst indoctrination comes from an exclusive diet from sources you already agree with. They reinforce possible misconceptions you may have and probably mischaracterize the opposing position. This exercise will also give you a broader base to understand the positions you finally adopt.



Until you get drafted, and they send you to fight for the pride of the rich men that care not for your death.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 15:49:27 »


But, TBH,  the world doesn't really change,  once a human is in a position of power, he behaves quite predictably..


This is a shortcoming of man,  not really the fault of choice....  it will happen regardless of who we put in the hot seat.




"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."  Abraham Lincoln


Offline kurplop

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 16:04:46 »

Until you get drafted, and they send you to fight for the pride of the rich men that care not for your death.

I guess I was misinformed. I thought the draft ended in 1971.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 16:11:43 »

So stereotyping an entire generation or two is somehow not a similarly stupid thing to do?


Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 16:53:07 »

Until you get drafted, and they send you to fight for the pride of the rich men that care not for your death.

I guess I was misinformed. I thought the draft ended in 1971.

They don't call it a draft no more..  They call it poverty stricken lower class.. What choice do these people have.

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 17:48:55 »
Part of our responsibilities as citizens is to become well informed about the candidates and issues so that our voting decisions are based on thoughtful analysis and not just clever slogans, which way the winds are blowing, or which celebrity is endorsing them.

To become well informed means more than watching your favorite news show or reading a certain political blogster. I would recommend spending at least 2 hours following sources that differ from your present position for every hour among "allies". Make yourself a little uncomfortable. You may find that the so called other side has some good points that shouldn't be so quickly dismissed. The worst indoctrination comes from an exclusive diet from sources you already agree with. They reinforce possible misconceptions you may have and probably mischaracterize the opposing position. This exercise will also give you a broader base to understand the positions you finally adopt.

Well said.  I know I've said it here before, but informed voting is far more important than voting for the sake of voting.


So stereotyping an entire generation or two is somehow not a similarly stupid thing to do?

Now show me the percentages of each age range that actually did their research and knew what they were voting for.  It very well might prove your point, and I hope it does, but again - voting for the sake of voting is not better than not voting!  You don't prove anything by telling me that the older generations took the time to get in their cars and go fill out a form.   :rolleyes:   The thought that that would mean anything is just absurd, and frankly devalues your other arguments.

Offline demik

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 17:50:57 »

Until you get drafted, and they send you to fight for the pride of the rich men that care not for your death.

I guess I was misinformed. I thought the draft ended in 1971.

They don't call it a draft no more..  They call it poverty stricken lower class.. What choice do these people have.

Draft them to war or draft them to jail
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 17:59:35 »
this is news?

I thought it was interesting that a former president openly admitted it, rather than the usual ra-ra patriotic nonsense we hear from the top politicians.

But now that I think about, anybody at the top of the pile knows this place is an oligarchy that to get to the top of the pile.

Why hasn't he been assassinated yet?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 18:38:41 »
and frankly devalues your other arguments.

Your responses continue to perplex me.

My "argument" is that my great country is going to hell because millions of people (and disproportionally more younger people) are, for whatever reasons, refusing to participate in the process of steering their own civil government, and thereby allowing it to be steered, by those who do not have their best interests at heart, in directions that do them great harm.

The voter turnout for the last election was 36% which means that 19% of eligible voters selected the people who actually rule our society.

Yet time and again, the responses put forth to my pleas for engagement are the most stupid and pathetic variations of "it doesn't matter anyway"
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline digi

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 18:40:00 »
Hey, I voted for the black guy....the white guy sucked.

Offline kurplop

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 18:55:22 »

Until you get drafted, and they send you to fight for the pride of the rich men that care not for your death.

I guess I was misinformed. I thought the draft ended in 1971.

They don't call it a draft no more..  They call it poverty stricken lower class.. What choice do these people have.

Draft them to war or draft them to jail

I don't question that the best option for many young people is to join the military, although many join for reasons other than that they lacked other opportunities.

I admit (confess) that I'm an Orange County resident and because of that, some have a prejudice against me and my opinions. In spite of that, I've known a quite a few young guys who have joined the military and it turned out to be a good career move for them. These were people who did have other options.

Be careful with your flippant generalization. Someone may take you seriously.

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:01:07 »
We don't have ethical people at the head of the government plus they can be funded by other non-ethical big money guys. So you just end up with a bunch of jerks ruling the world and serving their own interests. That's why so many problems haven't found solution in multiple decades.

The desire to run for office should be the first disqualifier to run for office.
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Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:19:40 »

and frankly devalues your other arguments.

Your responses continue to perplex me.

My "argument" is that my great country is going to hell because millions of people (and disproportionally more younger people) are, for whatever reasons, refusing to participate in the process of steering their own civil government, and thereby allowing it to be steered, by those who do not have their best interests at heart, in directions that do them great harm.

The voter turnout for the last election was 36% which means that 19% of eligible voters selected the people who actually rule our society.

Yet time and again, the responses put forth to my pleas for engagement are the most stupid and pathetic variations of "it doesn't matter anyway"

But if all those people who voted only voted the way they did because of the little 'D' or 'R' next to the name, or because one ****ty attack ad was better than another, is that really what's best for the country? Quality over quantity is all I'm pushing for.

Quantity quality would be best, of course, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm just arguing against the "civil duty to vote" point you seem to be making. If you don't know what you're voting for, stay home. Don't go and vote just to push a bar higher on a graph. That's all I'm saying.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:47:00 »

I'm just arguing against the "civil duty to vote" point you seem to be making.


Well, I did say:

"refusing to participate in the process of steering their own civil government"
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:50:29 »
Note that there has been a very deliberate attempt by Republicans to depress voter turnout by young people and minorities, and substantial erosion of voter rights over the last 50 years. Charts showing low turnout aren’t just about “the apathy of those lazy kids”.

People involved in the political system deserve much of the blame for failing to deliver on their promises, redrawing congressional districts to make them completely uncompetitive, turning the congress into a do-nothing gridlock, and passing laws handed to them by campaign donors without even reading the damn things, much less considering their other constituents.

If young people are drowning in debt, working ****ty jobs and have zero savings, are unable to afford to buy houses or raise families, or are disgusted and disempowered by a political process that doesn’t give a damn about them, blaming them for low turnout is futile or even counterproductive.

As far as I can tell, most the ills of this country are caused by the rapacious greed, entitlement and self indulgence, missing critical thinking, and lack of empathy of folks older than 50, and especially the so-called baby boomers, the “**** you, I got mine” generation. (Not speaking of anyone in specific here, just the general trend.)

Maybe if everyone over 55 stopped voting, this country would have a chance.
« Last Edit: Sun, 02 August 2015, 20:09:20 by jacobolus »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 20:04:22 »
Note that there has been a very deliberate attempt by Republicans to depress voter turnout by young people and minorities, and substantial erosion of voter rights over the last 50 years. Charts showing low turnout aren’t just about “the apathy of those lazy kids”.

People involved in the political system deserve much of the blame for failing to deliver on their promises, redrawing congressional districts to make them completely uncompetitive, turning the congress into a do-nothing gridlock, and passing laws handed to them by campaign donors without even reading the damn things.

If young people are drowning in debt, working ****ty jobs and have zero savings, are unable to afford to buy houses or raise families, or are disgusted and disempowered by a political process that doesn’t give a damn about them, blaming them for low turnout is futile or even counterproductive.

I agree with all of that except for the last sentence.

Why are they in denial about the efficacy of using their one simple fundamental tool that takes an hour or less, on rare occasions, and costs nothing?

And unless they were asleep during history and civics classes, they should remember that a whole lot of people fought and died to give them that right.

It is an insult to those ancestors who made those gargantuan sacrifices to squander their basic civil responsibilities.

And, anyway, it was set up to be "us" not "them"

Take it Back!

Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 20:12:51 »
I’m mostly just trolling you. I think making sweeping generalizations and trying to blame people for their social circumstances without actually knowing what their experience is like is counterproductive, whether or not the criticism is valid.

Better would be to get out there and do some voter recruitment drives, throw time and money behind attempts to get money out of politics, and agitate to return the tax system to what it looked like in the 70s before Saint Reagan sold us out to the billionaires.

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Former President Jimmy Carter admits the US is an oligarchy
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 02 August 2015, 20:15:24 »

Locked in a 2-party system, you must ALWAYS choose the lesser of the 2 evils!

But as I said earlier, people MUST stop voting for people and start voting for ideas.

Not saying you are jaded, fohat, but it's easy to become jaded and cynical on the issue of politics and voting.  There are more effective solutions than complaining about it, however.  I will admit that it's hard to feel like you are doing anything to improve the system.

We are locked in a two party system because a plurality, winner-take-all voting system doesn't lend towards an actual diverse debate.  Given the choice between two uninspiring candidates, I can understand why many of us don't even bother, especially in places like my state which essentially is a one party state at this point. 

There are more effective voting systems that don't make people feel like they are wasting their vote by voting for a smaller party.  The key is to allow your voters to ranking candidates or parties on the ballet, so you can actually put the guy or gal you really want to win at the top of the ballot.  Maybe your 2nd or 3rd choice wins the election, but you can vote without feeling like your vote is "wasted" on a smaller party. (No vote is wasted, by the way).

A friend from college runs this organization:  http://www.electology.org

The voting system is only one of the deeply embedded problems, but plurality voting benefits the current parties in power, so we will not see the largest government entities making a change towards different voting systems.  It starts from the bottom.  Don't expect those in power to change a system that benefits them.

And don't forget your sense of humor, the people in power need a reminder of how ridiculous they can be sometimes.
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