Do you believe in 'karma'?

[Air tree]

So I was talking with some friends, and they see to think it is extremely odd that I don't believe in such a thing.

They continued to hound me for saying "You'll come to realise it exists later in life" but for the life of me, I can't think of any logic in the rather supernatural type theory of it.

Just because someone is not a good person, doesn't mean the universe will give them **** for, just like how good people aren't going to get rewarded for their good actions.

I don't understand how they couldn't grasp why I couldn't believe in such a thing..

[phoenix1234]

Just because someone is not a good person, doesn't mean the universe will give them **** for, just like how good people aren't going to get rewarded for their good actions.

But most of the time, sooner or later, the bad person will receive bad results due to their bad actions and vice versa.
If you don't believe in karma, this could be explained as "Cause and Consequence"
And yes, sometimes, good people did not to get rewarded for their good actions immediately but who knows they will get the reward later in their life.

[RabRhee]

Go round being nice to everyone and eventually you might be naturally nice to someone for no reason who later on can help you along your way.

And go round being a prick, or a bigot, or losing your temper too often, and you will eventually do it to someone who might have the ability to help you and choose not to. Its karma, of sorts.

Or you could be this guy - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2960791/Commuter-swears-man-way-interview-man-recruiter.html

[Air tree]

I believe in cause and effect, but I don't believe in unrelated events happening to a person because of their past attitudes how they acted.

[nubbinator]

Nope.  I think people have to live with what they become and can influence their actions to create karmic type events in their lives due to a sense of guilt, but there is no such thing as karma.  The notion of karma is an idea of petty revenge that people who do wrong will get what's coming to them so that you feel better about your own life.  I prefer to be happy knowing that bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people and accept the fact that I have no control over any of it other than making myself a better person.

[Photekq]

I think karma is a strange mix of optimism and superstition. Optimism is cowardice, superstition is illogical, so I don't believe in it.

[dutC4]

 

[Belfong]

Here is something I read that goes along this line: "if you want to see the cause you made in the past, look at the present. And if you want to see the effect of your future, look at what you are doing now".
The cause (good or bad) that you created in the past is reflected in who you are now, today. And therefore, you can influence your karma in the future by the actions that you take now.

And karma is actually sanskrit for words, thoughts and actions.

[fohat.digs]

I think karma is a strange mix of optimism and superstition. Optimism is cowardice, superstition is illogical, so I don't believe in it.

I completely agree with the first sentence but not the second.

Karma is a theoretical "thing" while optimism and superstition are emotions. Humans need to feel that they are not just "flapping in the breeze" hence all manner of explanations (religious and quasi-mystical in all sorts of ways) for both positive and negative occurrences in their lives. And optimism or hope does not derive from fear, but is often rather an emotion to aid the striving for an improvement to your situation.

While I accept that there are almost sure to be "supernatural" forces that we cannot detect or recognize, I am enough of an atheist to suppose that there is no sentient will behind them.

Ultimately, I think that the net sum of "good" and "bad" in the universe is zero.

But, of course, there are horrible people in the world who seem to live charmed lives, and excellent people who suffer at every turn. But that is coincidence just as flipping a coin and getting heads or tails 10 times in a row would be.

[tp4tissue]

Well,  if we had enough processing power,   we can correlate anything with everything..

So,  karma is a quantifiable propagation.


There's really nothing Magical or Serendipitous about it..  **** just happens as it happens..

[baldgye]

Ghosts, monsters, God, the afterlife and magic are all nonsense and don't exist, but karma does? rokay...

[RabRhee]

Ghosts, monsters, God, the afterlife and magic are all nonsense and don't exist, but karma does? rokay...

No, its all nonsense except magic. That's real 

[iri]

No.

[FrostyToast]

There's a thing called quid pro quo.
But then again, most of the world's most powerful people are psychopaths/sociopaths.

[Geroximo]

No. I don't believe in karma.
I don't believe in religion.
Actually, I think those are things people are making up in their minds just to feel more comfortable with the cruel reality.

[tp4tissue]

There's a thing called quid pro quo.
But then again, most of the world's most powerful people are psychopaths/sociopaths.

Ok, possibly,  but maybe "that's the way to go"  ,  One can't say for sure.

[tp4tissue]

No. I don't believe in karma.
I don't believe in religion.
Actually, I think those are things people are making up in their minds just to feel more comfortable with the cruel reality.

Your issue is with how people are imprecise when they Talk-about-karma.


One can not simply deny Karma in general, because it is itself merely an unperceived propagation.


Anything that happens because of something else happening which you DON'T SEE,  is karma..


There is an infinite number of that occurring constantly.

[jbondeson]

The way some people view karma, the cosmic balancing act making sure good and bad "get what's coming" is verifiably false. Plenty of great people get screwed throughout their life and die miserable and alone. And plenty of "evil" people live happy successful lives.

Now, what the average joe terms "karma" is more a gamble on cause and effect: do good and you may just get that payoff, do bad and you may just get screwed.

In the end I think it's just our brains doing what they always do, try and make sense out of the incomprehensible and try to make a universe of infinite complexities obey some simple rule we can wrap our heads around.

[FrostyToast]

No. I don't believe in karma.
I don't believe in religion.
Actually, I think those are things people are making up in their minds just to feel more comfortable with the cruel reality.

While it's fine to say that you don't believe in religion, it is simply naive to say such a thing about it.

I used to, as an atheist, think the same things and to an extent still do like:
"Religion is simply a coping mechanism"
"It was used to control people"
"It's for collecting money"
"Religions are used to justify war"

But at the end of the day it's simply something to believe in.
It may seem illogical to have faith but if you take an interest in philosophy at all you would realize that knowledge and science are simply subdivisions of faith.
To be fair, science is simply an extremely popular form of religion.

Classical religion gives us morals, community, hope, as well as various other great things.

If you think this sounds ridiculous, read about Plato's allegory of the cave and then come back to me.
Mind you, I say all of this as what one might call, an atheist; a term that I don't quite like to identify with.

[engicoder]

I don't base my actions, decisions or opinions on "karma", but I have no idea if it exists or not. If someone else believes in it, I can't say they are wrong.

[engicoder]

Mind you, I say all of this as what one might call, an atheist; a term that I don't quite like to identify with.

People often confuse "atheist" with and "anti-theist".

[Geroximo]

I know Platos allegory of the cave.
I'm not saying there is no karma, I'm not saying there is no god. I'm just saying, that believing in things that are not proven to exist, is just a way of making our lifes a bit more comfortable. It's a way of giving sense to life, where there may be no sense. I don't know. We cannot know.
Why is this even a discussion. In my oppinion you cannot discuss things that are not proven to exist or to not exist.
To be honest, my english at this point is too bad to have a serious discussion about this topic.
I guess, I'm an agnostic.

[fohat.digs]

it's simply something to believe in.

This is where I have to raise an objection.

People should not have to "believe in" things.

If it is true, it is true. If it isn't true, it isn't. If there is doubt, and it is important to you, then you need to strive to ascertain the truth.

You don't have to believe in gravity - gravity is.

To quote Stevie Wonder: "People believe in things they don't understand and they suffer."
Truer words have never been spoken.

[jbondeson]

Why is this even a discussion. In my oppinion you cannot discuss things that are not proven to exist or to not exist.

This doesn't make much sense. All of science moves forward by "discussing things not proven to exist." The number of things we have "proven" is so minuscule as to be inconsequential next to the vast amount of the unproven or unprovable.

Not even to bring into the discussion the things that have been "proven" only to be thrown away and relegated to the past.

[skycrimes]

Idk if I believe in karma exactly but I believe if you do good you'll be happy no matter what. Even if you don't get some kind of "reward" from those you do good too or w/e but just knowing that you are a decent human being is a reward in of itself.

[FrostyToast]

Why is this even a discussion. In my oppinion you cannot discuss things that are not proven to exist or to not exist.

This doesn't make much sense. All of science moves forward by "discussing things not proven to exist." The number of things we have "proven" is so minuscule as to be inconsequential next to the vast amount of the unproven or unprovable.

Not even to bring into the discussion the things that have been "proven" only to be thrown away and relegated to the past.

This.
I have to say that I despise the Aristotelian thought.
To only advocate for empirical understanding while clearly showing signs of platonic rationalism is hypocritical.
The search for the unknown comes in many forms. It's just that some have more "religious" connotations as opposed to "scientific" connotations.
Either way, we're both searching for an unknown.

Plus, to compliment what jbondeson said, the only thing we can ever know is that we know nothing.

[ice31000]

I'm not a very superstitious person, but, karma is one thing that I do believe in. The world has a mysterious way of dishing out punishment or rewards for those who deserve them.

[ripwallet]

Strangely enough im not a very superstitious person when it comes to old saying like splitting poles or walking under ladders. But i when it comes to karma i am a big believer of you get what's coming to you and what you deserve. I always try to treat people well because you never know when it could come back to really help you.

[Belfong]

The way some people view karma, the cosmic balancing act making sure good and bad "get what's coming" is verifiably false. Plenty of great people get screwed throughout their life and die miserable and alone. And plenty of "evil" people live happy successful lives.

This could be true if you are looking at things in one life time. But many (read Buddhist) who believed in karma looks at the eternity of life which spans across generations. Then, the karma will catch up to the evil people. Granted, it’s hard to buy this idea if you don’t have the faith, which is why it is faith.

I like what @fohat quoted above about the presence of some super natural power, just that it has no will. In Buddhist term, it’s the law of the universe - just a law much like gravity is.

[jbondeson]

The way some people view karma, the cosmic balancing act making sure good and bad "get what's coming" is verifiably false. Plenty of great people get screwed throughout their life and die miserable and alone. And plenty of "evil" people live happy successful lives.

This could be true if you are looking at things in one life time. But many (read Buddhist) who believed in karma looks at the eternity of life which spans across generations. Then, the karma will catch up to the evil people. Granted, it’s hard to buy this idea if you don’t have the faith, which is why it is faith.

I like what @fohat quoted above about the presence of some super natural power, just that it has no will. In Buddhist term, it’s the law of the universe - just a law much like gravity is.

Yes, certainly. I simply excluded it due to the intro, it didn't sound like they were talking about Buddhist rebirth or Judaeo-Christian afterlife.

[fohat.digs]

I simply excluded it due to the intro, it didn't sound like they were talking about Buddhist rebirth or Judaeo-Christian afterlife.

Jews don't really have a specific afterlife, but their offshoot derivatives made sure that Heaven and Hell are a core part of the process.

How better to control behavior than to instill a rigid and inevitable and eternal karmic system with an omniscient arbitrator?

[jbondeson]

Jews don't really have a specific afterlife, but their offshoot derivatives made sure that Heaven and Hell are a core part of the process.

How better to control behavior than to instill a rigid and inevitable and eternal karmic system with an omniscient arbitrator?

Looking at it, it does look like Reform Judaism and pre-100BC Jewish teachings there was no afterlife or Olam Ha-Ba in Jewish teaching. Learn something new every day.

So the new phrase'll be Pharisee-Judaeo-Christian Afterlife )

[yowaffle]

I sort of view karma the same way poker players view luck. You create your own luck [but luck isn't guaranteed]. Something to keep in mind though is that [in poker] bad things also happen to people who play 'correct' as well. You hear some professional players say "Why is bad play rewarded?". So while I believe in karma I don't expect good things to happen to me just because I do the right thing. I do believe though that the likelihood of something good happening to me increases.

[alexjd99]

I sort of view karma the same way poker players view luck. You create your own luck [but luck isn't guaranteed].

I think this is the best way to look at it.
People who are bad, will get bad results from their actions, and vice versa.

[GenKaan]

I am a strong believer in karma. Once (not sober) I got a vision, a very visually charge image of two boxes. One was white and almost empty, one black that was full with black objects sticking out over the top. The two boxes was placed on a very basic scale. As I explored them people was lining up to fill the boxes, with the black box having a line that stretched beyond the horizon while the white only had a few people in it


Someone told me that the boxes represented positive and negative, good and bad. Also that the universe always try to keep them balanced and that every object within the universe puts items in both boxes regardless of their intent. In order to be happy you need to focus on putting as much as possible in the white box, sadly the action of a few fills the black box to the breaking point

After a bit of exploring the "boss" of this place relived itself to me saying "karma is a universal truth, everything revolves around it and nothing can escape it". I asked him "if this is true, why dont more evil men get more severely punished?", it answered "because the universe is bigger than the individual and to think your actions only affect you is naive. Everything, both reward and punishment, is handed out on a larger scale than you can grasp". This made me think and after some time I asked "If I am not going to reap the reward or face punishment, why should I care?", the answer I got stayed with me and I dont think I can ever forget it

The answer was: "Unless you try to add more positive than negative to the universe you will never find true peace with yourself. If you only think of yourself, you will miss so much passive joy from other peoples achievements and happiness. If you expect instant reward for good deeds you will never reach the end goal because you are too focused on short term gains, missing the greater picture. However you are human and your question was expected. Just know that a reward handed out after the end of your existence isnt a waste"

After sobering up and coming back to this reality I analyzed my life and the conclusion was... that its pretty damn great. I would consider myself lucky, healthy, wealthy and in love. Not that my life has been a fairy tale but where I am now is great and I have focused on being a good person, sharing and avoid negative emotions and actions as much as possible (like greed, envy, hate and so on).

Sorry if it got to trippy/hippie for a keyboard forum but this is off-topic after all

[gadzkun]

i believe god exist.
i believe god is righteous.
i believe in what is right and what is wrong.
i believe in god!
and i believe everything what ive done for now is the best choice for myself right now. 

[Oobly]

Why is this even a discussion. In my oppinion you cannot discuss things that are not proven to exist or to not exist.

This doesn't make much sense. All of science moves forward by "discussing things not proven to exist." The number of things we have "proven" is so minuscule as to be inconsequential next to the vast amount of the unproven or unprovable.

Not even to bring into the discussion the things that have been "proven" only to be thrown away and relegated to the past.

This.
I have to say that I despise the Aristotelian thought.
To only advocate for empirical understanding while clearly showing signs of platonic rationalism is hypocritical.
The search for the unknown comes in many forms. It's just that some have more "religious" connotations as opposed to "scientific" connotations.
Either way, we're both searching for an unknown.

Plus, to compliment what jbondeson said, the only thing we can ever know is that we know nothing.

Well said. As I've posted previously (in a tp thread of all places), science is dependent on faith. Without faith there is no science. To accept a theory as "truth" requires you to make the step of believing the theory (based on the evidence shown and the reasoning given). And although I can't speak for other people, my "Faith" is based on evidence and reason and I've followed scientific methods to arrive where I am in it, so it's as scientific as the theory of gravity to me and "proven" internally (which in fact makes it even more real to me). Science and faith are certainly not the enemies that people like Richard Dawkins try to paint them as.

In fact, to take faith out of science is like taking the engine out of a car. It's an essential, fundamental component of the system.

I recommend reading "God's Undertaker: Has science buried God?" by John C Lennox if you are a human being interested in this topic. It's a clear and scientific analysis of the major competing theories in this arena.

The way I see it, "karma" has two components:
1. Social cause and effect. You do good to / for others, sometime in future one of those (or some other decent human being) does something good to / for you. The more good you do, the more people there are who feel indebted to "pass it forward". Sometimes this goes full circle and you reap the good you've sown. Sometimes people just take the good and pass on s**t.
2. Spiritual / philosphical long term cycle of "rewards". Universe / God rewards you for the good you've done. In Christianity this is a little different than most other belief systems in the sense that your reward in this life on earth is seen as inconsequential compared to that of the afterlife, so in that sense, karma is not part of the Christian belief system as such. Storing up "treasures in heaven" negates the desire for earthly reward and encourages doing good simply because it's what you should be doing (part of living as the body of Christ and bringing God's "kingdom" on earth), without being greedy for the reward you may get from social cause and effect (which is just a bonus) and removes the dependence of rewards on other people. The greatest reward is seen as simply being in the presence of the Creator of the universe.

[beehatch]

karma is for squares

[CannabisWeekly]

Huge believer in Karma.