Dialect Discussion

[romevi]

Mod Edit: This thread was split from a group buy thread into its own discussion. Replies 1-20 are from said thread.

The standard universal American dialect with no accent, the one used in most automated voice recordings and such, is taken from somewhere in Ohio.

[E3E]

The standard universal American dialect with no accent, the one used in most automated voice recordings and such, is taken from somewhere in Ohio.

I thought that was Iowa.

[trenzafeeds]

The standard universal American dialect with no accent, the one used in most automated voice recordings and such, is taken from somewhere in Ohio.

I thought that was Iowa.

praise be to E3E the only other person posting on geekhack at this hour. Sorry I don't even know what thread this is I'm so tired.

[axtran]

The standard universal American dialect with no accent, the one used in most automated voice recordings and such, is taken from somewhere in Ohio.

I thought that was Iowa.

Yeah Iowa or Nebraska, I thought too.

[E3E]

The standard universal American dialect with no accent, the one used in most automated voice recordings and such, is taken from somewhere in Ohio.

I thought that was Iowa.

praise be to E3E the only other person posting on geekhack at this hour. Sorry I don't even know what thread this is I'm so tired.

Pff, Trenza. True E3Es only post at night. The E3E that posts during the day time is a fake. 

[ika]

Drew Carey's from Ohio. I always thought the "broadcasting" accent was an Ohio/midwestern accent too. It's probably all the same.

[E3E]

Drew Carey's from Ohio. I always thought the "broadcasting" accent was an Ohio/midwestern accent too. It's probably all the same.

Yeah, it stretches out a bit. I have met some Ohioans that have that weird vowel shift that I've heard in people from Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the Dakotas, That accent kind of stretches really far too. They're not all exactly the same, but they sound really similar to me.

The accents we have down here are really weird too, but I like em. Mine is, I don't know. I don't socialize enough so it's prrrroooobably a little less influenced by where I live. My mom, neighbors here, and people in this town have pretty strong accents. Mom's got that n'awlins accent. Neighbors have some interesting accent that's more rural, but yeah.

The people you hear that sound like Southerners here with that twang... Usually aren't from New Orleans.

[romevi]

Drew Carey's from Ohio. I always thought the "broadcasting" accent was an Ohio/midwestern accent too. It's probably all the same.

Yeah, it stretches out a bit. I have met some Ohioans that have that weird vowel shift that I've heard in people from Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the Dakotas, That accent kind of stretches really far too. They're not all exactly the same, but they sound really similar to me.

The accents we have down here are really weird too, but I like em. Mine is, I don't know. I don't socialize enough so it's prrrroooobably a little less influenced by where I live. My mom, neighbors here, and people in this town have pretty strong accents. Mom's got that n'awlins accent. Neighbors have some interesting accent that's more rural, but yeah.

The people you hear that sound like Southerners here with that twang... Usually aren't from New Orleans.

I thought it was Ohio. I haven't looked it up in a while. I'll have to dig for more info.

[CPTBadAss]

Yep we invented flight because it's the fastest way out of Ohio.

Ever saw this meme njbair? I feel that way like 50% of the time.

Drew Carey's from Ohio. I always thought the "broadcasting" accent was an Ohio/midwestern accent too. It's probably all the same.

The Ohio accents seem to be a toned down version of the Midwest accents. Like Iowa and Minnesota accent. What always gets me about living near Kentucky is their accents.

[E3E]

Yep we invented flight because it's the fastest way out of Ohio.

Ever saw this meme njbair? I feel that way like 50% of the time.

Show Image

Drew Carey's from Ohio. I always thought the "broadcasting" accent was an Ohio/midwestern accent too. It's probably all the same.

The Ohio accents seem to be a toned down version of the Midwest accents. Like Iowa and Minnesota accent. What always gets me about living near Kentucky is their accents.

I have some friends from North KY that stay in Ohio now and they do have that trademark Southern drawl, maybe not as thick as some, but it's there.  Then I have friends in Ohio that have that twang that sounds Southern, but in a weird way. Hahahaha. Oh my descriptions are golden.  :-X

[njbair]

Yep we invented flight because it's the fastest way out of Ohio.

Ever saw this meme njbair? I feel that way like 50% of the time.

Show Image

Drew Carey's from Ohio. I always thought the "broadcasting" accent was an Ohio/midwestern accent too. It's probably all the same.

The Ohio accents seem to be a toned down version of the Midwest accents. Like Iowa and Minnesota accent. What always gets me about living near Kentucky is their accents.

I had not seen that meme before. But I've made that joke in the past when I first learned that statistic about Ohio and astronauts.

Honestly, though, Ohio is a great place to live. The worst "natural disaster" we have is snow. Also, no scorpions or killer bees. I guess we're so boring it makes people want to leave and do crazy things like go to space.

[BlueNalgene]

Also, no scorpions or killer bees.

*yet

[E3E]

Thanks Ohio, for giving us all the hurricanes that were too bored with you to bother.

[njbair]

Also, no scorpions or killer bees.

*yet

They've tried migrating northward, they die in the winter.

[HoffmanMyster]

I always thought the "broadcasting" accent was an Ohio/midwestern accent too. It's probably all the same.

smh.  Not all Midwestern accents are the same, man!  Minnesota and northern WI have a very distinct accent that SE WI does not have.  I adopted the MN accent when I lived there.    (I'm from SE WI and did not have this accent before)

The Ohio accents seem to be a toned down version of the Midwest accents. Like Iowa and Minnesota accent. What always gets me about living near Kentucky is their accents.

Oh ****, CPT just equated Iowa and MN.    I think I just felt the entire state of MN twitch.  )

But seriously, IA doesn't really have the same accent. 

[E3E]

I always thought the "broadcasting" accent was an Ohio/midwestern accent too. It's probably all the same.

smh.  Not all Midwestern accents are the same, man!  Minnesota and northern WI have a very distinct accent that SE WI does not have.  I adopted the MN accent when I lived there.    (I'm from SE WI and did not have this accent before)

The Ohio accents seem to be a toned down version of the Midwest accents. Like Iowa and Minnesota accent. What always gets me about living near Kentucky is their accents.

Oh ****, CPT just equated Iowa and MN.    I think I just felt the entire state of MN twitch.  )

But seriously, IA doesn't really have the same accent. 

Haha, generalizations happen when you aren't familiar with a region, I think. I'm sure a lot of people think everyone from the South sounds the same. There's a lot of characteristics I hear in Midwestern accents much like how there's a lot of defining characteristics for your typical Southern too.

The way people pronounce words with a long o sound in certain areas of the midwest always gets me, haha. It's like one of the most defining things that stand out to me.

[romevi]

Looked it up. I guess General American is mostly Midwestern, but a lot of the broadcasters and automated recordings are from Michigan and Ohio.

Oh, and Midwestern accents are not the same! Ever watch Fargo? That's rural Minnesota. Chicago has an annoying nasal accent which I'm glad I never adopted, and Wisconsin and the other "I"-states have their own regional accents. It seems Michigan and Ohio, for the most part, have a clear dialect. I'm sure, however, they have their own in different regions; I've just never heard them or heard of them.

[E3E]

Looked it up. I guess General American is mostly Midwestern, but a lot of the broadcasters and automated recordings are from Michigan and Ohio.

Oh, and Midwestern accents are not the same! Ever watch Fargo? That's rural Minnesota. Chicago has an annoying nasal accent which I'm glad I never adopted, and Wisconsin and the other "I"-states have their own regional accents. It seems Michigan and Ohio, for the most part, have a clear dialect. I'm sure, however, they have their own in different regions; I've just never heard them or heard of them.

Yep. There's been several Michigan..ders? I've met down here, and I can always tell that they're from Michigan. It's a very distinct accent that I wouldn't exactly call clear. I've met a few people with very neutral accents though. Some from California, some from Indiana, some from Ohio (these days, there's a lot more neutral or ambiguous sounding accents that can be found, probably from the internet or a lot of travel), but there's always something they say that has a tell. I'm sure practically no one can escape their accent 100%.

I mean down here, a lot of people I know pronounce buffet as "boofey," which is still a correct pronunciation, just a less heard one.  It wasn't until I hung out with a friend I made through an ex of mine in Georgia that she made fun of the way I said it.

Lol, I had no idea that was an odd pronunciation. I say it the typical way now. I refuse to call soda "pop" and I refuse to call apricot "ape re cot," lol. XD I love dialect and accent discussion.

Another interesting thing is when some people from other countries pick up either a British English accent or an American English accent. I know Chyros is Dutch, but his English is fantastic and his accent is more on the British side. I know another Dutch person who sounds American when he speaks English. It's all very intriguing. Of course that has to do more with what you learn and where you learn.

[romevi]

I refuse to call soda "pop"

fite me irl

Another interesting thing is when some people from other countries pick up either a British English accent or an American English accent. I know Chyros is Dutch, but his English is fantastic and his accent is more on the British side. I know another Dutch person who sounds American when he speaks English. It's all very intriguing. Of course that has to do more with what you learn and where you learn.

I lived in London for half a year and didn't realize how much I picked up until I returned home. All of my friends remarked not only on the colloquialisms I used, but also how I phrased some of my sentences and inflected my questions.

We have a friend who was born and raised in Chicago and moved to North Carolina a few years ago. She now has a southern drawl; I didn't even know people from North Carolina had that strong a southern accent until we visited.

[HoffmanMyster]

Michigan..ders?

Michigander, yep.  Michiganite is also technically correct, but you'd be hard pressed to hear a Michigander call themselves that. 

I refuse to call soda "pop"

Smart man.  Calling a thing something that it is not is silly. 

[jdcarpe]

Should a mod split this OT banter into a new topic? Midwest Musings?

[HoffmanMyster]

Should a mod split this OT banter into a new topic? Midwest Musings?

What off topic banter?  We're in the Dialect Discussion thread!

[trenzafeeds]

Lol my early morning posting somehow got me split into this as well

[romevi]

Midwest Musings?

More like "Midwest a Best," amirite?

[BlueNalgene]

I got teleported to this thread because of entomological threats, but I have some input. 

I have often heard that I "don't have an accent."  This comes from both locals and outsiders.  The expectation is that, as a white male born and raised in Oklahoma, I should have a slight drawl, minimal vocabulary, and a greater affinity for that special sort of rural Americana platitude.  My non-Oklahoman colleagues have mentioned that I don't sound like an Okie.  That is a bit insulting.  I feel it is pretty much the same as telling a black person that they are more eloquent than one would expect.  And native (lowercase) Oklahomans generally think I just sound like a city boy.  That can be a problem, and it is occasionally necessary to affect an accent.  For example, when working with the powder coating tech for my GB, the guy struck me as a very folksy fellow.  I think I worked the deal best by putting on a very slight drawl and ending business dealings with a "good ta meetcha" and handshake.  Though I almost dropped the ball when I said "happy holidays" and he corrected me with a "merry Christmas".

The reality of the situation, is that I have just internally homogenized so many dialects due to my upbringing (actor + town which imported jobs), that my native tongue ends up sounding incredibly generic.  I wonder if I would fit in some Ohio town. 

[HoffmanMyster]

it is occasionally necessary to affect an accent.  For example, when working with the powder coating tech for my GB, the guy struck me as a very folksy fellow.  I think I worked the deal best by putting on a very slight drawl and ending business dealings with a "good ta meetcha" and handshake.  Though I almost dropped the ball when I said "happy holidays" and he corrected me with a "merry Christmas".

This is a pretty big part of my job. 

[iri]

by what logic can you expect a black person to be more or less eloquent than a non-black person?

[tp4tissue]

I'm willing to teach ya'll to speak Tp4..  the BESTEST dialect. 

Speaking Tp4 requires you to remain totally silent.

Purchasing an Ergodox..

Assembling an Ergodox...

Then typing on the Ergodox....

The bridge to god, across which we may hear his whispers..


<boy, that last sentence sounded ominous, I'm not sure I even wrote it, just came out..">

[romevi]

by what logic can you expect a black person to be more or less eloquent than a non-black person?

In the hood.

[E3E]

by what logic can you expect a black person to be more or less eloquent than a non-black person?

By racist and discriminatory logic. I still remember that account of a black guy who managed to infiltrate a chapter of the KKK, and the guy on the phone literally told him he can tell when he's talking to a black guy because of how they talk.

That's the best thing ever. Ignorance is bliss.

[romevi]

by what logic can you expect a black person to be more or less eloquent than a non-black person?

By racist and discriminatory logic. I still remember that account of a black guy who managed to infiltrate a chapter of the KKK, and the guy on the phone literally told him he can tell when he's talking to a black guy because of how they talk.

That's the best thing ever. Ignorance is bliss.

I don't think it's racist if you can tell if you're talking to a black guy, or a person of another heritage, on the phone. Each race has certain facial and vocal features that contribute to unique speech patterns.

[E3E]

by what logic can you expect a black person to be more or less eloquent than a non-black person?

By racist and discriminatory logic. I still remember that account of a black guy who managed to infiltrate a chapter of the KKK, and the guy on the phone literally told him he can tell when he's talking to a black guy because of how they talk.

That's the best thing ever. Ignorance is bliss.

I don't think it's racist if you can tell if you're talking to a black guy, or a person of another heritage, on the phone. Each race has certain facial and vocal features that contribute to unique speech patterns.

It still has a certain amount of bias, because I have certainly heard white people sound black and black people sound white and so on. I do agree that there are TYPICAL qualities that can be used to take a guess, but that can also create a situation where you might be quite wrong.

[jdcarpe]

I have certainly heard white people sound black

NAHM SAYN

#noragrets

[E3E]

xD

Carpe gets it

[mobbo]

I have certainly heard white people sound black

NAHM SAYN

#noragrets

[fohat.digs]

Most people who meet me say that I have little or no accent. Although when Bill Clinton was president I was occasionally but consistently told that I sounded exactly like him.

I was born and raised in Tennessee, and throughout my childhood my mother always told me: "There is nothing wrong with being from East Tennessee - as long as you don't sound like it."

About the black "variation" I agree that there is a certain "something something" about their sound that can often be discerned, even over the telephone. What I am curious about, as a person who loves English (and especially Scottish and Welsh) accents is this: my daughter's ballet studio is run by a well-educated middle-aged black English couple (Londoners) and my ears can't tease out the ethnicity in their accents, but I suspect that a UK native could.

[romevi]

by what logic can you expect a black person to be more or less eloquent than a non-black person?

By racist and discriminatory logic. I still remember that account of a black guy who managed to infiltrate a chapter of the KKK, and the guy on the phone literally told him he can tell when he's talking to a black guy because of how they talk.

That's the best thing ever. Ignorance is bliss.

I don't think it's racist if you can tell if you're talking to a black guy, or a person of another heritage, on the phone. Each race has certain facial and vocal features that contribute to unique speech patterns.

It still has a certain amount of bias, because I have certainly heard white people sound black and black people sound white and so on. I do agree that there are TYPICAL qualities that can be used to take a guess, but that can also create a situation where you might be quite wrong.

I think that has to do with where you grow up, too. A Caucasian kid growing in up a predominantly black or Hispanic neighborhood (at least, here in America) will usually pick up certain traits. I have a few Caucasian relatives who were adopted and, because they grew up speaking primarily Spanish, they have slight accents when speaking English.

I have certainly heard white people sound black

NAHM SAYN

#noragrets

You racist pig.

[drewba]

I got teleported to this thread because of entomological threats, but I have some input. 

I have often heard that I "don't have an accent."  This comes from both locals and outsiders.  The expectation is that, as a white male born and raised in Oklahoma, I should have a slight drawl, minimal vocabulary, and a greater affinity for that special sort of rural Americana platitude.  My non-Oklahoman colleagues have mentioned that I don't sound like an Okie.  That is a bit insulting.  I feel it is pretty much the same as telling a black person that they are more eloquent than one would expect.  And native (lowercase) Oklahomans generally think I just sound like a city boy.  That can be a problem, and it is occasionally necessary to affect an accent.  For example, when working with the powder coating tech for my GB, the guy struck me as a very folksy fellow.  I think I worked the deal best by putting on a very slight drawl and ending business dealings with a "good ta meetcha" and handshake.  Though I almost dropped the ball when I said "happy holidays" and he corrected me with a "merry Christmas".

The reality of the situation, is that I have just internally homogenized so many dialects due to my upbringing (actor + town which imported jobs), that my native tongue ends up sounding incredibly generic.  I wonder if I would fit in some Ohio town.

I approve of your use of social engineering. A big portion of my job involves logistics, I have to talk with people all over the country. I quickly learned you can't speak to a New Yorker the same way you'd speak to a Georgian. My companys branch of customer service was recently moved from Illinois to Kansas, part of the rationale was that Kansas folk are more polite than Illinois folk. I thought that was a bit insulting, regardless the big wigs parroted that theory ad nauseam in various press releases & to the customer service branch themselves. Anytime I speak with customer service I put on a bit of a drawl and absolutely kill them with kindness. Fight the system!

[Phirr]

US-centric, and somewhat old, but this dialect quiz is great: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

Literally pinpointed the city where my girlfriend grew up, through its dark magic.

[romevi]

US-centric, and somewhat old, but this dialect quiz is great: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

Literally pinpointed the city where my girlfriend grew up, through its dark magic.

I got a few cities, two of which are close to my birthplace.

[HoffmanMyster]

The whole race thing is only due to generalizations and trends. You're really picking up socioeconomic groups that happen to be a majority one particular race. I see no genetic reason that a black person should be predisposed to speak like people assume black people should sound...

[BlueNalgene]

US-centric, and somewhat old, but this dialect quiz is great: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

Literally pinpointed the city where my girlfriend grew up, through its dark magic.

Mine was red for everything besides Minnesota and New York-Maine. 

[CPTBadAss]

US-centric, and somewhat old, but this dialect quiz is great: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

Literally pinpointed the city where my girlfriend grew up, through its dark magic.

Pegged me for the northeast or Florida. The reddest centered around New York City and Yonkers. A place called Pembroke Pines in Florida was also marked. My hometown was included in the red swath in New York but not marked.

[E3E]

US-centric, and somewhat old, but this dialect quiz is great: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

Literally pinpointed the city where my girlfriend grew up, through its dark magic.

I love how neutral ground and po' boy are terms so central to this state. Crawfish is more wide-spread that I thought. I grew up saying 18-wheeler for semi-trucks, but I call them by a bunch of different terms these days. Semi, rig, tractor trailer.

We usually call quad bikes or ATVs four wheelers, so that probably stems from similar roots. This quiz is really cool! I've definitely shed some of the colloquialisms I've grown up with, but I try to answer all of these with common terms from down here if applicable. I go with my own pronunciations though.

So neat, lol. Not quite done yet.



Now I am! I wonder if I didn't answer with the crazy tells from being down here, like po boy and neutral ground. I must perform further testing!

With neutral answers for the more telling ones while keeping pronunciations true, I got this:



Apparently pronouncing crayon where 'on' rhymes with 'dawn' is very distinctive of this area. Who knew! Lol Hawaii

[romevi]

The whole race thing is only due to generalizations and trends. You're really picking up socioeconomic groups that happen to be a majority one particular race. I see no genetic reason that a black person should be predisposed to speak like people assume black people should sound...

I don't think it's entirely generalizations. Can someone of a different race have a completely clear dialect? Yes. There are a few people in my family, me included, who've been told that we sound "white," and that was by other Caucasians.
I think the main differences, if any, would lie primarily in how the tongue and lips have been used throughout the centuries of a particular race. I know that pronouncing "r" is different between, say, German and Spanish, and so I think that could affect some sort of variation. But I have no particular data to back that claim.

Here's an article that delves in it a bit: http://dialectblog.com/2013/04/17/race-and-voice-quality/.
And two studies mentioned in the article: http://americanspeech.dukejournals.org/content/86/2/152.short, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16243483.

I'm no scientist, though; I went through colleges solely in the humanities.

[E3E]

The whole race thing is only due to generalizations and trends. You're really picking up socioeconomic groups that happen to be a majority one particular race. I see no genetic reason that a black person should be predisposed to speak like people assume black people should sound...

I don't think it's entirely generalizations. Can someone of a different race have a completely clear dialect? Yes. There are a few people in my family, me included, who've been told that we sound "white," and that was by other Caucasians.
I think the main differences, if any, would lie primarily in how the tongue and lips have been used throughout the centuries of a particular race. I know that pronouncing "r" is different between, say, German and Spanish, and so I think that could affect some sort of variation. But I have no particular data to back that claim.

Here's an article that delves in it a bit: http://dialectblog.com/2013/04/17/race-and-voice-quality/.
And two studies mentioned in the article: http://americanspeech.dukejournals.org/content/86/2/152.short, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16243483.

I'm no scientist, though; I went through colleges solely in the humanities.

As you've pointed out, there are always exceptions, and how someone is raised and the region in which they grew up, etc, all affect that. I'm sure those who try hard enough can eliminate their vocal quirks and have a very neutral accent if they'd like.

I definitely notice inflections in people of all backgrounds, but I have also been wrong, so I really don't like to generalize. I knew a guy from Michigan who I could've sworn would've been black, but he wasn't. Same with another guy I know from Oklahoma, and they all had very subtle would-be tells, not crazy hood talk, just subtle ways in how they spoke, but they were both white as rice. I've also thought the same about people who sounded Asian, but was wrong too. With a lot of second gen Vietnamese and Chinese people down here, I'm used to the subtleties, but again, have been wrong, haha.
 
I come from a spanish background, but I doubt anyone would realize that hearing me talk, especially since I wasn't raised speaking the language.

 I also knew this one guy who lived in Florida, but came from England (white guy), and he talked pretty ghetto. I thought he was latino or something, but when he told me he was from England, I was like whaaaat. He intentionally covered his accent and liked sounding like he was American with that kind of street accent.

[HoffmanMyster]

US-centric, and somewhat old, but this dialect quiz is great: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

Literally pinpointed the city where my girlfriend grew up, through its dark magic.

For my dialect, it's hard to be impressed.  All I have to do is answer "bubbler" and it's game over. 

[jdcarpe]

US-centric, and somewhat old, but this dialect quiz is great: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

Literally pinpointed the city where my girlfriend grew up, through its dark magic.

For my dialect, it's hard to be impressed.  All I have to do is answer "bubbler" and it's game over. 

Is that a water fountain?

[trenzafeeds]

Apparently northeast and soutwest have similar dialects?

[BlueNalgene]

I did find it interesting that the cities it tagged for me, while not places I've lived, are where my family members are from.