Black Health Matters

[appleonama]

I am all for protesting but stopping traffic just ****s everyones day. This is the worst way to protest wouldn't be better to make sure the politicians aren't able to make it into their office by chaining themselves infront of their building? Instead of being a burden to hundreds of peoples lives. its pretty selfish imo.

[inanis]

There was similar protest here some months back where people protesting something or other chained themselves to oil barrels and stopped traffic on a major highway. I don't even know what they were protesting about. I was to busy dealing with the fact that my whole day got ****ed up. Stopping traffic on a bridge is even worse. There are real emergencies happening, and they very well may need that bridge to be resolved.

Protests don't have to be polite, but I can't imagine this particular type of protest gaining much sympathy or supporters. All it does is piss everyone off at the protesters, not garner support for their cause. Except for the people who are happy to support enticing chaos, but those people probably couldn't care less about the cause and really only want the mayhem.

[Melvang]

hi i like this post and have little else to contribute other than saying it would be cool if people got as mad about racism as they did about traffic but that's just inflammatory i guess so bye

I'll get plenty mad about the mistreatment of humans.  Why does their skin color matter?  There are lots of people that are not black that are being treated poorly by the police, where is there protest?  And these situations almost always come back around to socioeconomic issues rather than true race issues.  Plenty of rich black people, plenty of poor white people.  Why not discuss the issues as they actually are?

It is posts like this where I almost wish we had a "like button".  But we do not.

So, +1.

[baldgye]

this thread be like

[katushkin]

I just came here to say that Will Smith's accent in Concussion was ****ing awful.

[Roibhilin]

The point is to gain attention. Blocking the bridge sends the statement "this issue is important enough that we caused a major traffic jam to get your attention". I'm not sure how it can be construed as violent, maybe someone can explain that.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for protesting so long as it is done right, tastefully, and legally.  When you block traffic, or intimidate paying customers to an establishment that is not centrally pivotal in your cause, then you are breaking the law and deserve to be arrested.

This is hilarious tbh. There is a place for "tasteful" protest, and there is also a place for ****ing **** up. You can't always change a system by obeying its constraints, and being arrested is often the price that has to be paid.

hi i like this post and have little else to contribute other than saying it would be cool if people got as mad about racism as they did about traffic but that's just inflammatory i guess so bye

this is a good post

[jbondeson]

Americans and your racism is so sweet. Here in the civilized world we have learnt that the only people who can't be trusted are gingers. That's science.

It must be so nice to be enlightened.

But it's cool, keep your head in the sand about it.

[baldgye]

Americans and your racism is so sweet. Here in the civilized world we have learnt that the only people who can't be trusted are gingers. That's science.

It must be so nice to be enlightened.

But it's cool, keep your head in the sand about it.

Lmao
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[hwood34]

Americans and your racism is so sweet. Here in the civilized world we have learnt that the only people who can't be trusted are gingers. That's science.

It must be so nice to be enlightened.

But it's cool, keep your head in the sand about it.

pretty sure he was joking

[jbondeson]

Americans and your racism is so sweet. Here in the civilized world we have learnt that the only people who can't be trusted are gingers. That's science.

It must be so nice to be enlightened.

But it's cool, keep your head in the sand about it.

pretty sure he was joking

Impossible to tell when his serious views and jokes  are presented in the same way. :/

[Waateva]

Americans and your racism is so sweet. Here in the civilized world we have learnt that the only people who can't be trusted are gingers. That's science.

It must be so nice to be enlightened.

But it's cool, keep your head in the sand about it.

pretty sure he was joking

Definitely joking.  You can tell because he said gingers can't be trusted but he mentioned nothing of lefties.

[baldgye]

I'll get plenty mad about the mistreatment of humans.  Why does their skin color matter? There are lots of people that are not black that are being treated poorly by the police, where is there protest?  And these situations almost always come back around to socioeconomic issues rather than true race issues.  Plenty of rich black people, plenty of poor white people.  Why not discuss the issues as they actually are?

In simplest terms, white people are not getting harassed and shot by police for being white. All lives do matter, but black lives are more endangered, so they are the focus of the campaign. It is a race problem. I don't doubt that better-off black people are affected less than poorer black people, but that doesn't make it any less about race.

Yeah but can you do it in a way that doesn't cause me (a white guy) any inconvenience please? Like how selfish can you be stopping traffic, like I'll be late for work and ****...

[demik]

hi i like this post and have little else to contribute other than saying it would be cool if people got as mad about racism as they did about traffic but that's just inflammatory i guess so bye

I'll get plenty mad about the mistreatment of humans.  Why does their skin color matter?  There are lots of people that are not black that are being treated poorly by the police, where is there protest?  And these situations almost always come back around to socioeconomic issues rather than true race issues.  Plenty of rich black people, plenty of poor white people.  Why not discuss the issues as they actually are?

because even rich blacks get harassed by police. BLM movement has been taken over by middle to upper class social justice warriors of all races. literally the world's cancer.

so while yes, this is a socioeconomics matter at it's deepest core.. race still plays a factor in it. and it's easier to speak of race than the actual problem.

[Air tree]

This thread makes me feel pretty weird.

I'm not totally for this form of protest, but there is still racial issues in the United states, and it's hard to refute that. Sure, there is a socioeconomic aspect of it, but I believe that there is a different reaction and judgment of minorities than that of white people.

Some of my family are living examples of prejudice, my Aunt didn't want to move to South carolina because she didn't feel safe, and the reason she didn't feel safe was that there was a lot of black people there.


Black people always have a much higher rate of conviction than that of white people on average.

[Waateva]

This thread makes me feel pretty weird.

I'm not totally for this form of protest, but there is still racial issues in the United states, and it's hard to refute that. Sure, there is a socioeconomic aspect of it, but I believe that there is a different reaction and judgment of minorities than that of white people.

Some of my family are living examples of prejudice, my Aunt didn't want to move to South carolina because she didn't feel safe, and the reason she didn't feel safe was that there was a lot of black people there.


Black people always have a much higher rate of conviction than that of white people on average.

My brother-in-law is black, and when my mom told my grandma that they were going to get married my grandma asked if my sister would be safe.  My sister has also told me that its not uncommon for her to be asked where my niece's father is when she is out with just them, as well as the fact that she is given the bill almost every time they eat out which is something I never experience when going out with my wife.  I experienced the same sort of things ~15 years ago when I dated a girl who happened to be black, including my uncle telling me "It's okay to **** them but don't breed with 'em" a couple times.

[jbondeson]

hi i like this post and have little else to contribute other than saying it would be cool if people got as mad about racism as they did about traffic but that's just inflammatory i guess so bye

I'll get plenty mad about the mistreatment of humans.  Why does their skin color matter?  There are lots of people that are not black that are being treated poorly by the police, where is there protest?  And these situations almost always come back around to socioeconomic issues rather than true race issues.  Plenty of rich black people, plenty of poor white people.  Why not discuss the issues as they actually are?

because even rich blacks get harassed by police. BLM movement has been taken over by middle to upper class social justice warriors of all races. literally the world's cancer.

so while yes, this is a socioeconomics matter at it's deepest core.. race still plays a factor in it. and it's easier to speak of race than the actual problem.

And to extend a little bit, Hoff's view is very common in what is my and his demographic: young to middle age white Americans from MidWest or Western states.

And that's exactly why they need to stop traffic on a busy bridge and inconvenience at ton of people who don't understand why it's BLM and not a more universal message.  Because the reality is that racism is still ingrained throughout the country and its not going to change if you and I (both Hoff and others of our cohort) don't understand that this is a huge issue that needs work. People are dying and suffering absurd injustices at the hands of those who are supposedly there to protect them.

[vivalarevolución]

You enslave the black man and turn him into a piece of property.

Then you "free" the black man, but still tell him what he can and cannot do.

Then you finally change the law so the black is treated equally under the law.  But you still treat him like a second class citizen and blame him for being poor.

Now you tell the black man how they can and cannot stage a protest.

THAT IS YOUR WHITE PRIVILEGE, BECAUSE YOU THINK THEY SHOULD PLAY BY THE RULES YOU DEEM ACCEPTABLE.

Now what if they told you how you should stage a protest?  Would you agree with what they are telling you to do?

This is the kinda stuff that black people have to get your attention.  Now you're talking about it.  Now you get it.  Did the state of black peoples health even register to you before this action.  If they were not making noise, would anybody pay attention?   Would you even know?  Are there rules on peaceful protest?  Who makes these rules?  Do you?  Does the government?  Should every law the government makes be followed?

[Melvang]

Are there rules on peaceful protest?

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-11-right-protest-and-freedom-association

[noisyturtle]

you guys wouldn't have liked MLK either but thanks 4 circlejerking about this I know who not to give my money to now :// i dont know what other ideology i'd expect from people spending thousands on computer peripherals tho

You're not going to sell things to people that don't like people breaking the law?

thats pretty reductionist and i'm not about to debate civil disobedience on a keyboard forum

good, no need to defend your position, just start **** and bow out

there's nothing to defend i said "i'm boycotting <x people> bye" hence "bowing out"; this got twisted into me boycotting "people that didn't break the law" at which i said i didn't feel like debating when it is okay to break the law

I love how you are upset for all the wrong reasons and can't see past your values to understand they were clearly breaking the law, causing people to be late for work/travel arrangements/deliveries, or anyone who god forbid needs to get to the hospital. You keep to your guns and quietly dislike people who you have differing views from. Nothing like distancing yourself from logic and alternate outlooks to make yourself look accepting and politically correct, I'm sure you won't burn any bridges that way.

[vivalarevolución]

Are there rules on peaceful protest?

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-11-right-protest-and-freedom-association

These sorts of rules remind of this:

[fanpeople]

you guys wouldn't have liked MLK either but thanks 4 circlejerking about this I know who not to give my money to now :// i dont know what other ideology i'd expect from people spending thousands on computer peripherals tho

Not interacting with people because they hold different opinions to your own. Not interacting with other people because you are intolerant of other peoples opinions and view your train of thought as superior over everyone else's.

Congratulations you are actually part of the problem not the solution and I bet you are way too arrogant to understand why.

Feel free to put me at the top of your ban list, immature people are the worst to trade/sell to anyway. But hey if you are in the market for some Gasmasks I won't hold a grudge. 

[R1N3]

Haha, way to sully their message. How did they ever convince themselves this was in any way a remotely good idea? Probably a bunch of upper middle class entitled liberal college millennials who think safe spaces are different from segregation and that people shouldn't be able to say things in public that offends them.

**** TUMBLR

RT

[Melvang]

Are there rules on peaceful protest?

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-11-right-protest-and-freedom-association

These sorts of rules remind of this:

Source:  https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-your-rights-are-violated-demonstration-or-protest  question number 5.

Please explain how this normal pedestrian traffic and not detaining passers-by.

I feel for their problem, I really do, but this is not the way to do it.  If they really want to get the attention of the people that can actually make a difference in their cause, then they need to organize a march around the place of business.  They can get their point across while staying well within the bounds of the law.  The laws giving them these rights are actually very forgiving.

[Waateva]

Are there rules on peaceful protest?

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-11-right-protest-and-freedom-association

These sorts of rules remind of this:

(Attachment Link)

Source:  https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-your-rights-are-violated-demonstration-or-protest  question number 5.

Please explain how this normal pedestrian traffic and not detaining passers-by.

I feel for their problem, I really do, but this is not the way to do it.  If they really want to get the attention of the people that can actually make a difference in their cause, then they need to organize a march around the place of business.  They can get their point across while staying well within the bounds of the law.  The laws giving them these rights are actually very forgiving.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/02/flint_residents_protest_citys.html

Above is a link about some peaceful and legal protesting against the water crisis in Flint...from almost a year ago.  Maybe, just maybe, if these people had blocked a bridge off and got national news attention something would've been done earlier?  Maybe some of the kids who are now mentally disabled wouldn't be and maybe some of the kids who have passed away would still be with us.

I understand your sentiment, but sometimes the law has to be broken to bring attention to things that would otherwise go unnoticed or forgotten about days later.  Now, if this situation is one of those times, that I cannot decide for anyone else but myself.

[Melvang]

Are there rules on peaceful protest?

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-11-right-protest-and-freedom-association

These sorts of rules remind of this:

(Attachment Link)

Source:  https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-your-rights-are-violated-demonstration-or-protest  question number 5.

Please explain how this normal pedestrian traffic and not detaining passers-by.

I feel for their problem, I really do, but this is not the way to do it.  If they really want to get the attention of the people that can actually make a difference in their cause, then they need to organize a march around the place of business.  They can get their point across while staying well within the bounds of the law.  The laws giving them these rights are actually very forgiving.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/02/flint_residents_protest_citys.html

Above is a link about some peaceful and legal protesting against the water crisis in Flint...from almost a year ago.  Maybe, just maybe, if these people had blocked a bridge off and got national news attention something would've been done earlier?  Maybe some of the kids who are now mentally disabled wouldn't be and maybe some of the kids who have passed away would still be with us.

I understand your sentiment, but sometimes the law has to be broken to bring attention to things that would otherwise go unnoticed or forgotten about days later.  Now, if this situation is one of those times, that I cannot decide for anyone else but myself.

So what if there was a fire at an apartment building and emergency crews needed to get across the bridge, what then?  That is the reason why these people should have been arrested.  It was a public safety issue.  Now if this would have been in town where emergency crews can go around the protestors with a block or two out of the way, that is much less of an issue.



Granted yes, there is probably emergency crews on both sides, but that doesn't guarentee that available crews will be able to handle all situations.  What if a car overheated and started a fire in the middle of the blockage?  Hell that bridge was completed in 1936, what if the bridge collapsed due to the weight of the stagnant traffic?

[HoffmanMyster]

hi i like this post and have little else to contribute other than saying it would be cool if people got as mad about racism as they did about traffic but that's just inflammatory i guess so bye

I'll get plenty mad about the mistreatment of humans.  Why does their skin color matter?  There are lots of people that are not black that are being treated poorly by the police, where is there protest?  And these situations almost always come back around to socioeconomic issues rather than true race issues.  Plenty of rich black people, plenty of poor white people.  Why not discuss the issues as they actually are?

because even rich blacks get harassed by police. BLM movement has been taken over by middle to upper class social justice warriors of all races. literally the world's cancer.

so while yes, this is a socioeconomics matter at it's deepest core.. race still plays a factor in it. and it's easier to speak of race than the actual problem.

And to extend a little bit, Hoff's view is very common in what is my and his demographic: young to middle age white Americans from MidWest or Western states.

And that's exactly why they need to stop traffic on a busy bridge and inconvenience at ton of people who don't understand why it's BLM and not a more universal message.  Because the reality is that racism is still ingrained throughout the country and its not going to change if you and I (both Hoff and others of our cohort) don't understand that this is a huge issue that needs work. People are dying and suffering absurd injustices at the hands of those who are supposedly there to protect them.

Thank you guys for actually responding to me, rather than (in an interesting twist of irony) ignoring my opinion based on my race. 

I completely understand and agree with what you two are saying - black people are treated differently by cops and many people, and there's little denying that.  But I have to push the issue just a bit further, since I did read the article and it highlighted how cops are treating them poorly (this issue of police treatment of individuals being the main message of the protest), and again I keep coming back to the fact that cops treat people of any race poorly.  Yes, the systematic and continual poor treatment is directed at minorities (so there is certainly *more* work to be done there), but (IMO) there is a wider issue of cops treating, well, everybody poorly.  If you look at data for police shootings, many of them are against white people (with the recurring theme being poverty, it seems). 

I am not an expert on social issues, but then again neither are any of you.    But am I wrong in thinking that if we're pissed about how cops are treating people, we should ignore race for a minute?  Or are these racially-charged issues pervasive enough in other areas of the country that race must be examined first?

Because, despite my relatively "privileged" upbringing, I still don't trust the cops - can anyone anymore?  O.o  <-- (NOT implying that my hardships are equal to or comparable to others' - this is not only a ridiculous claim, but also immeasurable)

[jbondeson]

Thank you guys for actually responding to me, rather than (in an interesting twist of irony) ignoring my opinion based on my race. 

I completely understand and agree with what you two are saying - black people are treated differently by cops and many people, and there's little denying that.  But I have to push the issue just a bit further, since I did read the article and it highlighted how cops are treating them poorly (this issue of police treatment of individuals being the main message of the protest), and again I keep coming back to the fact that cops treat people of any race poorly.  Yes, the systematic and continual poor treatment is directed at minorities (so there is certainly *more* work to be done there), but (IMO) there is a wider issue of cops treating, well, everybody poorly.  If you look at data for police shootings, many of them are against white people (with the recurring theme being poverty, it seems). 

Yes, a part of the issue is a general breakdown in the police-citizen interaction (though this has been happening for years). And yes many shootings involve white people, but that's simple statistics- 70%+ of the US just happens to be white. You have to look at the % of shootings based on population, and that data shows minorities (blacks in particular) are being gunned down and the subject of police brutality at a much higher rate.

I am not an expert on social issues, but then again neither are any of you.    But am I wrong in thinking that if we're pissed about how cops are treating people, we should ignore race for a minute?  Or are these racially-charged issues pervasive enough in other areas of the country that race must be examined first?

Because, despite my relatively "privileged" upbringing, I still don't trust the cops - can anyone anymore?  O.o  <-- (NOT implying that my hardships are equal to or comparable to others' - this is not only a ridiculous claim, but also immeasurable)

I mentioned where we both hail from for this very reason, unlike many in the South or large urban centers we don't see overt racism in action on a day-to-day basis. Hell, I've personally never had a negative reaction with a police officer. But it's the undercurrents of racism and prejudice that are just as bad -- the honor student hanging out in the parking lot is viewed as a possible gang banger when he's black and wearing a hoodie. That's a problem 90% of white peoples don't have (excepting the heavily tattooed).

So while it's been a while since I last stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, my answer would be - Yes, it really is that much worse for a number of black communities.

[Booper]

hi i like this post and have little else to contribute other than saying it would be cool if people got as mad about racism as they did about traffic but that's just inflammatory i guess so bye

I'll get plenty mad about the mistreatment of humans.  Why does their skin color matter?  There are lots of people that are not black that are being treated poorly by the police, where is there protest?  And these situations almost always come back around to socioeconomic issues rather than true race issues.  Plenty of rich black people, plenty of poor white people.  Why not discuss the issues as they actually are?

because even rich blacks get harassed by police. BLM movement has been taken over by middle to upper class social justice warriors of all races. literally the world's cancer.

so while yes, this is a socioeconomics matter at it's deepest core.. race still plays a factor in it. and it's easier to speak of race than the actual problem.

And to extend a little bit, Hoff's view is very common in what is my and his demographic: young to middle age white Americans from MidWest or Western states.

And that's exactly why they need to stop traffic on a busy bridge and inconvenience at ton of people who don't understand why it's BLM and not a more universal message.  Because the reality is that racism is still ingrained throughout the country and its not going to change if you and I (both Hoff and others of our cohort) don't understand that this is a huge issue that needs work. People are dying and suffering absurd injustices at the hands of those who are supposedly there to protect them.

Thank you guys for actually responding to me, rather than (in an interesting twist of irony) ignoring my opinion based on my race. 

I completely understand and agree with what you two are saying - black people are treated differently by cops and many people, and there's little denying that.  But I have to push the issue just a bit further, since I did read the article and it highlighted how cops are treating them poorly (this issue of police treatment of individuals being the main message of the protest), and again I keep coming back to the fact that cops treat people of any race poorly.  Yes, the systematic and continual poor treatment is directed at minorities (so there is certainly *more* work to be done there), but (IMO) there is a wider issue of cops treating, well, everybody poorly.  If you look at data for police shootings, many of them are against white people (with the recurring theme being poverty, it seems). 

I am not an expert on social issues, but then again neither are any of you.    But am I wrong in thinking that if we're pissed about how cops are treating people, we should ignore race for a minute?  Or are these racially-charged issues pervasive enough in other areas of the country that race must be examined first?

Because, despite my relatively "privileged" upbringing, I still don't trust the cops - can anyone anymore?  O.o  <-- (NOT implying that my hardships are equal to or comparable to others' - this is not only a ridiculous claim, but also immeasurable)

All in all, I think the issues of racism, poverty, and police brutality are very complex and there is no one cause or answer, but the fact that these people are getting out and actually protesting means that maybe they do deserve to be considered especially. I agree that the police have gotten to a point where they are more terrifying than helpful although I think that is a separate (though largely related) issue to the BLM thing which is focused on racism in conjunction with police brutality.   

While BLM might be misguided in the execution of some of their protests, just the fact that they are protesting means that the issues effect them in a way that makes them risk their livelihood to get a message across. I can't afford healthcare and I'm afraid of the police, but apparently it's not bad enough that I feel the need to protest. Stopping traffic sucks and is selfish, yea, but to me you'd have to think of WHY they are doing that. Sure you get inconvenienced for a day, but they are inconvenienced like every day of their lives. And we wouldn't be talking about it if they hadn't of done anything.

There are many reasons why racism exists still, but things like ****ed up laws and civil forfeiture have played a large part in advancing racism and poverty among minorities. For instance, the punishment for crack was made harsher than powder coke, and although rates of drug use and selling are comparable across racial lines, people of color are far more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, prosecuted, convicted and incarcerated for drug law violations than are whites. If a black father gets thrown in jail and consequently loses his job, gets a criminal record and cannot support his family.. he ends up being part of the impoverished and likely so will his family. Meanwhile, Mr. Whiteguy gets a slap on the wrist for the same crime and mommy & daddy pay a fine.

I think living in the south made me realize how bad racism is in this country. People in the south are not shy about that ****. I've witnessed a lot of profiling and blatant racism from people and police. I've been friends with a lot of black people and have witnessed first hand how crazy it is to just be driving down the road and get pulled over for literally no reason and harassed by cops. I had a manager/roommate/bff who is black and it was CRAZY the amount of people who would just ignore her and talk to me. They would ask for a manager, see she was black, then just blatantly ignore her and go back to talking to me. like, WTF!? She was way more qualified, professional, eloquent and awesome than most people I've known in my life and we would have long discussions about how she always felt like she needed to be those things just to have a chance to be taken seriously. I can't imagine constantly being treated like crap just because of the color of my skin. How ****ty that must feel.

Being afraid of the police is a problem for sure. I get nervous all the time about what will happen to me if I get stopped late at night all alone and caught with something I shouldn't have or even with an expired license or something.. but I'm not afraid I will get shot in the back for no reason by a cop just any day of the week. And I don't have friends and family that have been killed or incarcerated unfairly.

Anyway. That's just my 2 cents on the matter!

[Waateva]

hi i like this post and have little else to contribute other than saying it would be cool if people got as mad about racism as they did about traffic but that's just inflammatory i guess so bye

I'll get plenty mad about the mistreatment of humans.  Why does their skin color matter?  There are lots of people that are not black that are being treated poorly by the police, where is there protest?  And these situations almost always come back around to socioeconomic issues rather than true race issues.  Plenty of rich black people, plenty of poor white people.  Why not discuss the issues as they actually are?

because even rich blacks get harassed by police. BLM movement has been taken over by middle to upper class social justice warriors of all races. literally the world's cancer.

so while yes, this is a socioeconomics matter at it's deepest core.. race still plays a factor in it. and it's easier to speak of race than the actual problem.

And to extend a little bit, Hoff's view is very common in what is my and his demographic: young to middle age white Americans from MidWest or Western states.

And that's exactly why they need to stop traffic on a busy bridge and inconvenience at ton of people who don't understand why it's BLM and not a more universal message.  Because the reality is that racism is still ingrained throughout the country and its not going to change if you and I (both Hoff and others of our cohort) don't understand that this is a huge issue that needs work. People are dying and suffering absurd injustices at the hands of those who are supposedly there to protect them.

Thank you guys for actually responding to me, rather than (in an interesting twist of irony) ignoring my opinion based on my race. 

I completely understand and agree with what you two are saying - black people are treated differently by cops and many people, and there's little denying that.  But I have to push the issue just a bit further, since I did read the article and it highlighted how cops are treating them poorly (this issue of police treatment of individuals being the main message of the protest), and again I keep coming back to the fact that cops treat people of any race poorly.  Yes, the systematic and continual poor treatment is directed at minorities (so there is certainly *more* work to be done there), but (IMO) there is a wider issue of cops treating, well, everybody poorly.  If you look at data for police shootings, many of them are against white people (with the recurring theme being poverty, it seems). 

I am not an expert on social issues, but then again neither are any of you.    But am I wrong in thinking that if we're pissed about how cops are treating people, we should ignore race for a minute?  Or are these racially-charged issues pervasive enough in other areas of the country that race must be examined first?

Because, despite my relatively "privileged" upbringing, I still don't trust the cops - can anyone anymore?  O.o  <-- (NOT implying that my hardships are equal to or comparable to others' - this is not only a ridiculous claim, but also immeasurable)

All in all, I think the issues of racism, poverty, and police brutality are very complex and there is no one cause or answer, but the fact that these people are getting out and actually protesting means that maybe they do deserve to be considered especially. I agree that the police have gotten to a point where they are more terrifying than helpful although I think that is a separate (though largely related) issue to the BLM thing which is focused on racism in conjunction with police brutality.   

While BLM might be misguided in the execution of some of their protests, just the fact that they are protesting means that the issues effect them in a way that makes them risk their livelihood to get a message across. I can't afford healthcare and I'm afraid of the police, but apparently it's not bad enough that I feel the need to protest. Stopping traffic sucks and is selfish, yea, but to me you'd have to think of WHY they are doing that. Sure you get inconvenienced for a day, but they are inconvenienced like every day of their lives. And we wouldn't be talking about it if they hadn't of done anything.

There are many reasons why racism exists still, but things like ****ed up laws and civil forfeiture have played a large part in advancing racism and poverty among minorities. For instance, the punishment for crack was made harsher than powder coke, and although rates of drug use and selling are comparable across racial lines, people of color are far more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, prosecuted, convicted and incarcerated for drug law violations than are whites. If a black father gets thrown in jail and consequently loses his job, gets a criminal record and cannot support his family.. he ends up being part of the impoverished and likely so will his family. Meanwhile, Mr. Whiteguy gets a slap on the wrist for the same crime and mommy & daddy pay a fine.

I think living in the south made me realize how bad racism is in this country. People in the south are not shy about that ****. I've witnessed a lot of profiling and blatant racism from people and police. I've been friends with a lot of black people and have witnessed first hand how crazy it is to just be driving down the road and get pulled over for literally no reason and harassed by cops. I had a manager/roommate/bff who is black and it was CRAZY the amount of people who would just ignore her and talk to me. They would ask for a manager, see she was black, then just blatantly ignore her and go back to talking to me. like, WTF!? She was way more qualified, professional, eloquent and awesome than most people I've known in my life and we would have long discussions about how she always felt like she needed to be those things just to have a chance to be taken seriously. I can't imagine constantly being treated like crap just because of the color of my skin. How ****ty that must feel.

Being afraid of the police is a problem for sure. I get nervous all the time about what will happen to me if I get stopped late at night all alone and caught with something I shouldn't have or even with an expired license or something.. but I'm not afraid I will get shot in the back for no reason by a cop just any day of the week. And I don't have friends and family that have been killed or incarcerated unfairly.

Anyway. That's just my 2 cents on the matter!

Very well put, I think that when you actually experience racism firsthand or witness it firsthand your perspective changes on things.  As a white male living in the Midwest, I personally would've never known the extent of what people of other races experience everyday if I didn't have family members and ex's that weren't white.

Are there rules on peaceful protest?

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-11-right-protest-and-freedom-association

These sorts of rules remind of this:

(Attachment Link)

Source:  https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-your-rights-are-violated-demonstration-or-protest  question number 5.

Please explain how this normal pedestrian traffic and not detaining passers-by.

I feel for their problem, I really do, but this is not the way to do it.  If they really want to get the attention of the people that can actually make a difference in their cause, then they need to organize a march around the place of business.  They can get their point across while staying well within the bounds of the law.  The laws giving them these rights are actually very forgiving.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/02/flint_residents_protest_citys.html

Above is a link about some peaceful and legal protesting against the water crisis in Flint...from almost a year ago.  Maybe, just maybe, if these people had blocked a bridge off and got national news attention something would've been done earlier?  Maybe some of the kids who are now mentally disabled wouldn't be and maybe some of the kids who have passed away would still be with us.

I understand your sentiment, but sometimes the law has to be broken to bring attention to things that would otherwise go unnoticed or forgotten about days later.  Now, if this situation is one of those times, that I cannot decide for anyone else but myself.

So what if there was a fire at an apartment building and emergency crews needed to get across the bridge, what then?  That is the reason why these people should have been arrested.  It was a public safety issue.  Now if this would have been in town where emergency crews can go around the protestors with a block or two out of the way, that is much less of an issue.

(Attachment Link)

Granted yes, there is probably emergency crews on both sides, but that doesn't guarentee that available crews will be able to handle all situations.  What if a car overheated and started a fire in the middle of the blockage?  Hell that bridge was completed in 1936, what if the bridge collapsed due to the weight of the stagnant traffic?

I believe it was Justice Frank Johnson who ruled a little over 50 years ago on the legality of the Selma march who said, "“The law is clear that the right to petition one’s government for the redress of grievances may be exercised in large groups…and these rights may be exercised by marching, even along public highways.”

[Melvang]

hi i like this post and have little else to contribute other than saying it would be cool if people got as mad about racism as they did about traffic but that's just inflammatory i guess so bye

I'll get plenty mad about the mistreatment of humans.  Why does their skin color matter?  There are lots of people that are not black that are being treated poorly by the police, where is there protest?  And these situations almost always come back around to socioeconomic issues rather than true race issues.  Plenty of rich black people, plenty of poor white people.  Why not discuss the issues as they actually are?

because even rich blacks get harassed by police. BLM movement has been taken over by middle to upper class social justice warriors of all races. literally the world's cancer.

so while yes, this is a socioeconomics matter at it's deepest core.. race still plays a factor in it. and it's easier to speak of race than the actual problem.

And to extend a little bit, Hoff's view is very common in what is my and his demographic: young to middle age white Americans from MidWest or Western states.

And that's exactly why they need to stop traffic on a busy bridge and inconvenience at ton of people who don't understand why it's BLM and not a more universal message.  Because the reality is that racism is still ingrained throughout the country and its not going to change if you and I (both Hoff and others of our cohort) don't understand that this is a huge issue that needs work. People are dying and suffering absurd injustices at the hands of those who are supposedly there to protect them.

Thank you guys for actually responding to me, rather than (in an interesting twist of irony) ignoring my opinion based on my race. 

I completely understand and agree with what you two are saying - black people are treated differently by cops and many people, and there's little denying that.  But I have to push the issue just a bit further, since I did read the article and it highlighted how cops are treating them poorly (this issue of police treatment of individuals being the main message of the protest), and again I keep coming back to the fact that cops treat people of any race poorly.  Yes, the systematic and continual poor treatment is directed at minorities (so there is certainly *more* work to be done there), but (IMO) there is a wider issue of cops treating, well, everybody poorly.  If you look at data for police shootings, many of them are against white people (with the recurring theme being poverty, it seems). 

I am not an expert on social issues, but then again neither are any of you.    But am I wrong in thinking that if we're pissed about how cops are treating people, we should ignore race for a minute?  Or are these racially-charged issues pervasive enough in other areas of the country that race must be examined first?

Because, despite my relatively "privileged" upbringing, I still don't trust the cops - can anyone anymore?  O.o  <-- (NOT implying that my hardships are equal to or comparable to others' - this is not only a ridiculous claim, but also immeasurable)

All in all, I think the issues of racism, poverty, and police brutality are very complex and there is no one cause or answer, but the fact that these people are getting out and actually protesting means that maybe they do deserve to be considered especially. I agree that the police have gotten to a point where they are more terrifying than helpful although I think that is a separate (though largely related) issue to the BLM thing which is focused on racism in conjunction with police brutality.   

While BLM might be misguided in the execution of some of their protests, just the fact that they are protesting means that the issues effect them in a way that makes them risk their livelihood to get a message across. I can't afford healthcare and I'm afraid of the police, but apparently it's not bad enough that I feel the need to protest. Stopping traffic sucks and is selfish, yea, but to me you'd have to think of WHY they are doing that. Sure you get inconvenienced for a day, but they are inconvenienced like every day of their lives. And we wouldn't be talking about it if they hadn't of done anything.

There are many reasons why racism exists still, but things like ****ed up laws and civil forfeiture have played a large part in advancing racism and poverty among minorities. For instance, the punishment for crack was made harsher than powder coke, and although rates of drug use and selling are comparable across racial lines, people of color are far more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, prosecuted, convicted and incarcerated for drug law violations than are whites. If a black father gets thrown in jail and consequently loses his job, gets a criminal record and cannot support his family.. he ends up being part of the impoverished and likely so will his family. Meanwhile, Mr. Whiteguy gets a slap on the wrist for the same crime and mommy & daddy pay a fine.

I think living in the south made me realize how bad racism is in this country. People in the south are not shy about that ****. I've witnessed a lot of profiling and blatant racism from people and police. I've been friends with a lot of black people and have witnessed first hand how crazy it is to just be driving down the road and get pulled over for literally no reason and harassed by cops. I had a manager/roommate/bff who is black and it was CRAZY the amount of people who would just ignore her and talk to me. They would ask for a manager, see she was black, then just blatantly ignore her and go back to talking to me. like, WTF!? She was way more qualified, professional, eloquent and awesome than most people I've known in my life and we would have long discussions about how she always felt like she needed to be those things just to have a chance to be taken seriously. I can't imagine constantly being treated like crap just because of the color of my skin. How ****ty that must feel.

Being afraid of the police is a problem for sure. I get nervous all the time about what will happen to me if I get stopped late at night all alone and caught with something I shouldn't have or even with an expired license or something.. but I'm not afraid I will get shot in the back for no reason by a cop just any day of the week. And I don't have friends and family that have been killed or incarcerated unfairly.

Anyway. That's just my 2 cents on the matter!

Very well put, I think that when you actually experience racism firsthand or witness it firsthand your perspective changes on things.  As a white male living in the Midwest, I personally would've never known the extent of what people of other races experience everyday if I didn't have family members and ex's that weren't white.

Are there rules on peaceful protest?

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-11-right-protest-and-freedom-association

These sorts of rules remind of this:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

Source:  https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-your-rights-are-violated-demonstration-or-protest  question number 5.

Please explain how this normal pedestrian traffic and not detaining passers-by.

I feel for their problem, I really do, but this is not the way to do it.  If they really want to get the attention of the people that can actually make a difference in their cause, then they need to organize a march around the place of business.  They can get their point across while staying well within the bounds of the law.  The laws giving them these rights are actually very forgiving.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/02/flint_residents_protest_citys.html

Above is a link about some peaceful and legal protesting against the water crisis in Flint...from almost a year ago.  Maybe, just maybe, if these people had blocked a bridge off and got national news attention something would've been done earlier?  Maybe some of the kids who are now mentally disabled wouldn't be and maybe some of the kids who have passed away would still be with us.

I understand your sentiment, but sometimes the law has to be broken to bring attention to things that would otherwise go unnoticed or forgotten about days later.  Now, if this situation is one of those times, that I cannot decide for anyone else but myself.

So what if there was a fire at an apartment building and emergency crews needed to get across the bridge, what then?  That is the reason why these people should have been arrested.  It was a public safety issue.  Now if this would have been in town where emergency crews can go around the protestors with a block or two out of the way, that is much less of an issue.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

Granted yes, there is probably emergency crews on both sides, but that doesn't guarentee that available crews will be able to handle all situations.  What if a car overheated and started a fire in the middle of the blockage?  Hell that bridge was completed in 1936, what if the bridge collapsed due to the weight of the stagnant traffic?

I believe it was Justice Frank Johnson who ruled a little over 50 years ago on the legality of the Selma march who said, "“The law is clear that the right to petition one’s government for the redress of grievances may be exercised in large groups…and these rights may be exercised by marching, even along public highways.”

So chaining yourself to a parked car is considered "marching", to me that is a road block.  It isn't a matter on if they have the right or a reason to protest.  It is a matter of public safety on WHERE they chose to protest.  Will it get them attention, yes.  Will it win them supporters, not near as many as they would hope. 

Or am I just a bad guy for thinking of the safety of everyone on that island and bridge?

[Waateva]

So chaining yourself to a parked car is considered "marching", to me that is a road block.  It isn't a matter on if they have the right or a reason to protest.  It is a matter of public safety on WHERE they chose to protest.  Will it get them attention, yes.  Will it win them supporters, not near as many as they would hope. 

Or am I just a bad guy for thinking of the safety of everyone on that island and bridge?

No, I don't think anyone here is playing "the bad guy," I just think people have different opinions of what is going on.  I certainly care for the safety of the people on the bridge as well, but I also think that these protesters have valid points too that need to be heard.   Could it have been done in a better or less obstructive manner?  Absolutely, but these protesters decided that this was an appropriate response whether it was wrong or not.

[heedpantsnow]

Racism is an awful awful cancer to our society.  Not just American, though we seem to be the ones with the CNN drama about it.  Talking to some of my coworkers about it in the last few years and reading some of your stories (thanks for sharing Booper and Waateva) brings tears to my eyes thinking about the injustice that people still experience every day.  I lived overseas for a long time, and occasionally had a small taste of the frustration (the white guy in a group of locals is always the last one people will listen to, etc.).  Of course that's just a tiny little taste and since it wasn't my home country I am not saying it is in any way the same level of feeling trapped by unescapable injustice.

I support peaceful protesting (and some unpeaceful protesting, truth be told).  A few times I have protested for my own cause, and 2 other times I have done so for others' causes that I believed in.  The right to protest is one of the fundamental things that forms the "we" of our country, and we ("we" as a society) should be very, very careful in exactly what kind of actions or protests to prohibit.

I believe that the holy mandate of a majority group in any culture is to protect the rights of the minority from trampling and exploitation.  To do less is cowardly and taking the easy way out.  Growing up, I was taught that doing the right thing, no matter how hard, is a hallmark of manhood.  Being a coward is not. [please note: I'm talking to noone but myself when using this word]

In the case above, I can't help but wonder about this protest.  I will not go so far as to say that every protest is a valid protest.  Many are fomented by groups for political means.  Many are fueled by unfounded rumors.  Many want to circumvent the slow wheels of justice.  And from what (admittedly, little) I've read, the motives behind this protest ticks at least one or more of those marks.  Plus there is at least one report of an ambulance caught in the traffic, unable to move forward nor backward.  The groups sponsoring this protest were basically demanding the resignation of people who were rumored to have done very bad things.  They were not seeking indictments, or due process.  They were not seeking that justice be done in a lawful manner.  They were piggybacking off of a very righteous and worthy slogan that Black Lives Matter, trying to get people they don't like fired.  So IMHO it's better to find out who's behind a protest and their motives before you give it a blanket thumbs up just based on the color of the skin of the participants.  To do so is not much better than those who give a blanket thumbs down on a protest based on the color of the skin of the participants. 

Anyways, sorry for the wall of text.  This is just my opinion.  I hope you can respect it.

[tp4tissue]

I think the discussion you guys are hung up upon is not going to go anywhere, because ya'll arn't looking at the fundamental latencies of capitalism..

It has very little to do with color, and everything to do with economic organization...

[berserkfan]

Don't get me wrong, I am all for protesting so long as it is done right, tastefully, and legally.  When you block traffic, or intimidate paying customers to an establishment that is not centrally pivotal in your cause, then you are breaking the law and deserve to be arrested.

Laws exist for a purpose.

They keep the social order.

Protests should be done visibly, but without causing others trouble.

Now what would have happened if some ambulances had been diverted as a result of the blockage, and people died? Don't their lives matter?

Let's say Three Mile Island or some other nuclear plant is going critical, and the fire department is rushing over. You decide to hold your protest and block them so that you get maximum publicity for your cause. Nuclear plant blows, and in the radioactive aftermath everyone's health goes down. Is that a preferred outcome?

[noisyturtle]

Why are people even arguing this anymore? Those people getting arrested had absolutely nothing to do with race, class, or protesting rights rights in any way shape or form.

and if you actually think it does maybe you can join me this weekend protesting high privatized health insurance rates by blocking the entrance to your local hospital's ER.