Author Topic: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?  (Read 10989 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline berserkfan

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2135
  • Location: Not CONUS Not CONUS Not CONUS Not CONUS
  • changing diapers is more fun than model f assembly
Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:01:36 »
I certainly think NOT!

He won on the strength of the evangelicals in 2 religious states.

But for all the hate that Trump gets, Trump is not a religious fanatic, not in hock to religious groups, and does not have a religious agenda to push. He thinks for himself. Now he may not be good for Americans, but even that is unpredictable. It's not like Cruz, who will definitely be terrible for anyone not a Christian extremist.

Do you guys know Cruz's voting record/ Senate record?

OMG

He is a single issue champion of religion.

Please, no to religious fanaticism. NONONO!
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline Waateva

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1782
  • Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:03:43 »
As bad as it sounds, I'd rather have Trump too.  Cruz is religious whacko who wants to turn this country into a Christian version of Iran if he gets the chance
Duck Blackbird - Gaterstotles /// O'Mira - V Blacks /// LZ GH v2 - V Clears /// Leopold FC980C /// TGR Jane CE v2 (unbuilt) /// Lin Dolphin 2021 (unbuilt)

Offline Bromono

  • Wanabe Cicerone
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1115
  • Location: The Alamo's Basement
  • HHKB > Your Opinion
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:04:52 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

Offline azhdar

  • Praise the AZERTY god
  • Posts: 2436
  • Location: France
  • 65% Enlightened
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:08:17 »
Religions + politics = no. Both are terrible on their own already, no need to combine it.

>In France Secularism is very important, so Politics saying praise god or **** like that is very confusing.

Can someone explain me how does that work?
Azerty Propagandiste

Offline Waateva

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1782
  • Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:09:40 »
Religions + politics = no. Both are terrible on their own already, no need to combine it.

>In France Secularism is very important, so Politics saying praise god or **** like that is very confusing.

Can someone explain me how does that work?

God works in mysterious ways...
Duck Blackbird - Gaterstotles /// O'Mira - V Blacks /// LZ GH v2 - V Clears /// Leopold FC980C /// TGR Jane CE v2 (unbuilt) /// Lin Dolphin 2021 (unbuilt)

Offline trizkut

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1207
  • Location: MA
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:10:15 »
He's also owned by the telecom companies


Offline Bromono

  • Wanabe Cicerone
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1115
  • Location: The Alamo's Basement
  • HHKB > Your Opinion
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:10:33 »
Religions + politics = no. Both are terrible on their own already, no need to combine it.

>In France Secularism is very important, so Politics saying praise god or **** like that is very confusing.

Can someone explain me how does that work?

We are supposed to have state and religion separated, but the republican party is primarily Christian and feel like America was built on Christian principals and should stay that way.

Offline azhdar

  • Praise the AZERTY god
  • Posts: 2436
  • Location: France
  • 65% Enlightened
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:11:31 »
Religions + politics = no. Both are terrible on their own already, no need to combine it.

>In France Secularism is very important, so Politics saying praise god or **** like that is very confusing.

Can someone explain me how does that work?

We are supposed to have state and religion separated, but the republican party is primarily Christian and feel like America was built on Christian principals and should stay that way.

but then how do they get other religions votes theN?
Azerty Propagandiste

Offline nubbinator

  • Dabbler Supreme
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 8658
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Model M "connoisseur"
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:12:13 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

Offline Waateva

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1782
  • Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:13:55 »
Religions + politics = no. Both are terrible on their own already, no need to combine it.

>In France Secularism is very important, so Politics saying praise god or **** like that is very confusing.

Can someone explain me how does that work?

We are supposed to have state and religion separated, but the republican party is primarily Christian and feel like America was built on Christian principals and should stay that way.

I live in a very conservative area of Michigan so I was raised with all of the "Christian nation" stuff.  I've often heard Evangelical Christians state that separation of church and state actually means that the state can't interfere with the church but that the church can interfere with the state, because we're a Christian nation don't ya know?
Duck Blackbird - Gaterstotles /// O'Mira - V Blacks /// LZ GH v2 - V Clears /// Leopold FC980C /// TGR Jane CE v2 (unbuilt) /// Lin Dolphin 2021 (unbuilt)

Offline Bromono

  • Wanabe Cicerone
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1115
  • Location: The Alamo's Basement
  • HHKB > Your Opinion
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:14:52 »
Religions + politics = no. Both are terrible on their own already, no need to combine it.

>In France Secularism is very important, so Politics saying praise god or **** like that is very confusing.

Can someone explain me how does that work?

We are supposed to have state and religion separated, but the republican party is primarily Christian and feel like America was built on Christian principals and should stay that way.

but then how do they get other religions votes theN?

The democratic party is more open to other religions and tend to get their vote.

Offline azhdar

  • Praise the AZERTY god
  • Posts: 2436
  • Location: France
  • 65% Enlightened
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:16:09 »
Religions + politics = no. Both are terrible on their own already, no need to combine it.

>In France Secularism is very important, so Politics saying praise god or **** like that is very confusing.

Can someone explain me how does that work?

We are supposed to have state and religion separated, but the republican party is primarily Christian and feel like America was built on Christian principals and should stay that way.

but then how do they get other religions votes theN?

The democratic party is more open to other religions and tend to get their vote.

murica is so weird man.
Azerty Propagandiste

Offline Bromono

  • Wanabe Cicerone
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1115
  • Location: The Alamo's Basement
  • HHKB > Your Opinion
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 21:20:32 »
Religions + politics = no. Both are terrible on their own already, no need to combine it.

>In France Secularism is very important, so Politics saying praise god or **** like that is very confusing.

Can someone explain me how does that work?

We are supposed to have state and religion separated, but the republican party is primarily Christian and feel like America was built on Christian principals and should stay that way.

but then how do they get other religions votes theN?

The democratic party is more open to other religions and tend to get their vote.

murica is so weird man.

Very weird indeed.

But its capitalistic government is what has made it a superpower.

and what is even more funny, the military is very much socialist in nature. Free medicare, subsidized housing, free education, etc. But Americans think it is horrible? I have been loving it so far.

Offline whmeltonjr

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1119
  • Location: TX
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:28:30 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

Seriously. I would take just about anyone but Hillary.

Offline nubbinator

  • Dabbler Supreme
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 8658
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Model M "connoisseur"
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:29:07 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

Seriously. I would take just about anyone but Hillary.

Even Chris Christie or Rob Ford?

Offline whmeltonjr

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1119
  • Location: TX
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 22:30:30 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

Seriously. I would take just about anyone but Hillary.

Even Chris Christie or Rob Ford?

Offline hwood34

  • underwater squad
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5917
  • Location: USA
  • #1 CL stan
    • Keyboard Illuminati
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 01:06:21 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

Seriously. I would take just about anyone but Hillary.

I'd rather her than any Republican not named Kasich
IV KWK Info Thread & KBK Info Thread IV (out of date)

Old GBs: Gateron Switches (2015) | CF-LX R1 (2015) | CF-LX R2 (2017) | CF-LXXX (2017) | Gen.s Gem Caps (2015)

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"

Offline hwood34

  • underwater squad
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5917
  • Location: USA
  • #1 CL stan
    • Keyboard Illuminati
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 01:07:04 »
Just know that a vote for Cruz is a vote for the Zodiac Killer. Is that what you all want?
IV KWK Info Thread & KBK Info Thread IV (out of date)

Old GBs: Gateron Switches (2015) | CF-LX R1 (2015) | CF-LX R2 (2017) | CF-LXXX (2017) | Gen.s Gem Caps (2015)

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"

Offline demik

  • Pronounced "demique"
  • Posts: 11159
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 01:37:56 »
Just know that a vote for Cruz is a vote for the Zodiac Killer. Is that what you all want?

Dude, Kevin was so underrated on the office
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline mastermachetier

  • Posts: 59
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 02:16:28 »
The only republican that i can begin to tolerate is John Kasich, but it seems he stands no chance.

Offline DAVYtm

  • #dateless
  • Posts: 289
  • Location: NY
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 08:26:15 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

Seriously. I would take just about anyone but Hillary.

Preach.

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 09:57:54 »
I support Ted Cruz 100%. His message has been tuned to reach out to evangelical voters, because he thinks that is who the Republican Party needs to reach, in order to win the November election against Bernie or Hillary.* But he should have focused on getting more broad support for his conservative stance on the issues, in order to win the nomination against Trump. Ted Cruz is the only true conservative voice in the race. Some people perceive him as part of the Washington establishment, because he is a sitting US Senator. But that couldn't be farther from the truth. His record in the Senate is not to 'go along' with the Party line, but rather to stand in opposition any time a bill comes through that is contrary to the US Constitution. Trump says he is a 'nasty' guy, and that nobody in the Senate likes him, and that is because he will not make deals just to get things done. He is not afraid to stand up to bullies in the Republican Party who want him to vote with them on compromise issues.

But it seems that what the voters want is a Populist, not a Conservative. They want someone who tells them what they want to hear, whether the issue is immigration, health care, or whatever. They don't seem to care what someone has done in the past, as long as they spout populist rhetoric, and have some charisma.

* In the 2012 general election, there were said to be 4-5 million voters, primarily evangelical Republicans, who did not vote, because the Republican Party nominee was Mitt Romney, a Mormon. Conventional wisdom is that if those voters had turned out to vote for Romney, the Republicans would have defeated Obama in 2012. Those voters are primarily the ones whom Ted Cruz is seeking to convince they should vote for him.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Online fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6473
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 10:37:21 »
As horrible as Trump is in so many ways, he is the least horrible of the Republicans because he is not an ideologue and does not want to bring religion into politics.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline trenzafeeds

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1352
  • Location: vt
  • **** off
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 10:43:36 »
inb4 photeqk: "it won't make a difference who gets elected"
demik will never leave.

Unless he gets banned.

Offline Hellcatz

  • Posts: 222
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 11:10:41 »
You guys down there look like you guys are just voting for the one that can actually tie it's own shoe lace. I doubt any of them can tho

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 06 March 2016, 16:12:06 »
inb4 photeqk: "it won't make a difference who gets elected"

I've been saying that since I learned about the voting process in 2nd grade.

Offline berserkfan

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2135
  • Location: Not CONUS Not CONUS Not CONUS Not CONUS
  • changing diapers is more fun than model f assembly
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 08:01:52 »
I support Ted Cruz 100%. His message has been tuned to reach out to evangelical voters, because he thinks that is who the Republican Party needs to reach, in order to win the November election against Bernie or Hillary.* But he should have focused on getting more broad support for his conservative stance on the issues, in order to win the nomination against Trump. Ted Cruz is the only true conservative voice in the race. Some people perceive him as part of the Washington establishment, because he is a sitting US Senator. But that couldn't be farther from the truth. His record in the Senate is not to 'go along' with the Party line, but rather to stand in opposition any time a bill comes through that is contrary to the US Constitution. Trump says he is a 'nasty' guy, and that nobody in the Senate likes him, and that is because he will not make deals just to get things done. He is not afraid to stand up to bullies in the Republican Party who want him to vote with them on compromise issues.

But it seems that what the voters want is a Populist, not a Conservative. They want someone who tells them what they want to hear, whether the issue is immigration, health care, or whatever. They don't seem to care what someone has done in the past, as long as they spout populist rhetoric, and have some charisma.

* In the 2012 general election, there were said to be 4-5 million voters, primarily evangelical Republicans, who did not vote, because the Republican Party nominee was Mitt Romney, a Mormon. Conventional wisdom is that if those voters had turned out to vote for Romney, the Republicans would have defeated Obama in 2012. Those voters are primarily the ones whom Ted Cruz is seeking to convince they should vote for him.

Wait a moment JD, I haven't heard from you in a long time, but you support Ted Cruz? He's ultra religious and has been bringing religion into affairs of state. It's terribly worrying to anyone not of his religious persuasion.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline Capnmycraw

  • Posts: 19
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 08:33:11 »
I predict Hillary in a landslide.

Online fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6473
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 08:44:03 »
I predict Hillary in a landslide.

We can only hope that the apron strings extend down-ballot and that Democrats will sweep it all with bulletproof majorities.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
  • Posts: 992
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 10:52:38 »
I support Ted Cruz 100%. His message has been tuned to reach out to evangelical voters, because he thinks that is who the Republican Party needs to reach, in order to win the November election against Bernie or Hillary.* But he should have focused on getting more broad support for his conservative stance on the issues, in order to win the nomination against Trump. Ted Cruz is the only true conservative voice in the race. Some people perceive him as part of the Washington establishment, because he is a sitting US Senator. But that couldn't be farther from the truth. His record in the Senate is not to 'go along' with the Party line, but rather to stand in opposition any time a bill comes through that is contrary to the US Constitution. Trump says he is a 'nasty' guy, and that nobody in the Senate likes him, and that is because he will not make deals just to get things done. He is not afraid to stand up to bullies in the Republican Party who want him to vote with them on compromise issues.

But it seems that what the voters want is a Populist, not a Conservative. They want someone who tells them what they want to hear, whether the issue is immigration, health care, or whatever. They don't seem to care what someone has done in the past, as long as they spout populist rhetoric, and have some charisma.

* In the 2012 general election, there were said to be 4-5 million voters, primarily evangelical Republicans, who did not vote, because the Republican Party nominee was Mitt Romney, a Mormon. Conventional wisdom is that if those voters had turned out to vote for Romney, the Republicans would have defeated Obama in 2012. Those voters are primarily the ones whom Ted Cruz is seeking to convince they should vote for him.

Wait a moment JD, I haven't heard from you in a long time, but you support Ted Cruz? He's ultra religious and has been bringing religion into affairs of state. It's terribly worrying to anyone not of his religious persuasion.

Ted Cruz was not my first choice, but as the field winnows down, I would support him before Trump.

My copy of the Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech...". This is direct quote from the 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights. This seems to offer several important elements to protect the public from concerns the Founding Fathers had about the role of religion in the public square.

–Notice first, the Federal Government's passive role concerning religion both in creating a national religion and, equally important, prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Because of this I don't think we have to worry about a sharia law kind of situation but at the same time, allowing the input of various perspectives.
–Second, the free speech clause immediately follows its stance on religion. This allows for the free flow of ideas to be considered, faith based as well as secular.
–Finally, note the absence of the phrase "separation of Church and State", a comment made by Jefferson in a letter 15 years after the ratification of the US Constitution.

If you disagree with a candidate's opinions, don't vote for him or her. After all, we should all have a say in a democracy about the future direction of our country. To deny a office holder's ability to use their personal convictions to help shape their position on issues is discriminating against their religion or world view and is in violation of Article VI.

And what are these radical religious views Ted Cruz supports?
The most prominent is probably his advocacy for the unborn. I'm pro-life, but I can understand honest disagreements about when personhood begins. Some have suggested it isn't until roughly 2 years old. No, I'm not making that up. One would think, however, that after 57 million abortions since 1973, someone would have come up with a better way of controlling unwanted pregnancy than that. I, and most people in America, find late term abortions particularly egregious.

Another, is his support for the rights of people who are forced to provide services which they find morally offensive. A case in point is the baker required to make a wedding cake for a homosexual couple. You may not agree with the bakers views but it is logically inconsistent to insist on the couples right to marry but not the right for a businessman to have an opposing opinion on the morality of it. Especially in the case of a baker, whose craft involves a certain amount of artistry. Imagine being forced to build a custom keyboard for someone who wants Alps when you're a Topre man. How could you really give it your best?

I don't see either of these as either radical or even unreasonable.

We live in a society where individuals are allowed to have different perspectives and voice them. For now at least.
 

Offline bcredbottle

  • Posts: 695
  • Location: Seattle, Washington
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 10:55:24 »
I certainly think NOT!

He won on the strength of the evangelicals in 2 religious states.

But for all the hate that Trump gets, Trump is not a religious fanatic, not in hock to religious groups, and does not have a religious agenda to push. He thinks for himself. Now he may not be good for Americans, but even that is unpredictable. It's not like Cruz, who will definitely be terrible for anyone not a Christian extremist.

Do you guys know Cruz's voting record/ Senate record?

OMG

He is a single issue champion of religion.

Please, no to religious fanaticism. NONONO!

Irrelevant. Cruz won't win b/c he alienates independents, trump supporters, and of course, Democrats.

Trump is the worst-case scenario, by far. Xenophobic nationalist who doesn't understand the basics of government structure or international relations, and promises to start a trade war.

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 11:04:57 »
Any extreme will be hard for a Country made of a mixture of cultures and ethnicities; extreme fanatics will do more harm than good, the worst part is countrymen and women voting for people with such sectary's discourses.

Offline nubbinator

  • Dabbler Supreme
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 8658
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Model M "connoisseur"
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 11:41:24 »
The most prominent is probably his advocacy for the unborn. I'm pro-life, but I can understand honest disagreements about when personhood begins. Some have suggested it isn't until roughly 2 years old. No, I'm not making that up. One would think, however, that after 57 million abortions since 1973, someone would have come up with a better way of controlling unwanted pregnancy than that. I, and most people in America, find late term abortions particularly egregious.

All fine and good as a stance if you support universal healthcare for the poor, welfare programs for the poor, free contraceptives, actual sex education instead of abstinence only, and other social programs to help prevent unwanted pregnancies and help ensure that those who keep them are not thrust into poverty.  It makes zero sense to care so much for a fetus and then force the child into a life of poverty. 

The late term abortion is also a bit of a red herring since almost no doctor will do one unless it's a medical necessity that would otherwise cause death or potential death or massive trauma to mother and child.

You also ignore the fact that no one is forcing someone to have an abortion.  It's something that the person doing will have to reconcile with their own conscience.

What kills me is the logical contortions so many anti-abortion people make faced with the death penalty question.  Arguably, anti-abortion people are seeking to save an innocent life, yet when faced with the death penalty and the fact that at least 10% of people who have been executed are innocent (I say at least since the numbers of exonerations have grown as forensic techniques have improved).  Even with the facts that innocent people are murdered for crimes they did not commit, that the death penalty has no positive impact on crime rates, and that the death penalty is more costly that a life sentence, I very rarely meet an anti-abortion advocate who is also anti-death penalty.

Personally, I have a hard time with abortion, but I also think that it is not my place to remove that option from someone, especially considering the lifelong repercussions.


Another, is his support for the rights of people who are forced to provide services which they find morally offensive. A case in point is the baker required to make a wedding cake for a homosexual couple. You may not agree with the bakers views but it is logically inconsistent to insist on the couples right to marry but not the right for a businessman to have an opposing opinion on the morality of it. Especially in the case of a baker, whose craft involves a certain amount of artistry. Imagine being forced to build a custom keyboard for someone who wants Alps when you're a Topre man. How could you really give it your best?

I'd have no problem building an Alps or even *shudder* an MX board for someone.

While I don't disagree that people should have the right to refuse service, I find it morally reprehensible to allow them to refuse service based upon sexuality.  That is just as bad as the "colored" restrooms and fountains of old.  By refusing service to people based upon their sexuality, you are stating that they are a second class citizen.  Refusing service should be because the person is an ******* or otherwise negative. 

Imagine if I had a religion that stated that all people with physical deformities or disabilities have those disabilities because they have been touched by the devil or did some great evil in their life.  Should I be able to refuse service to them at my business based upon their disability because I believe that they are evil?   


I don't see either of these as either radical or even unreasonable.

We live in a society where individuals are allowed to have different perspectives and voice them. For now at least.

People should have different perspectives and those perspectives should be encouraged.  The problem is when a religion attempts to legislate morality.   

Offline bcredbottle

  • Posts: 695
  • Location: Seattle, Washington
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 11:59:42 »

Another, is his support for the rights of people who are forced to provide services which they find morally offensive. A case in point is the baker required to make a wedding cake for a homosexual couple. You may not agree with the bakers views but it is logically inconsistent to insist on the couples right to marry but not the right for a businessman to have an opposing opinion on the morality of it. Especially in the case of a baker, whose craft involves a certain amount of artistry. Imagine being forced to build a custom keyboard for someone who wants Alps when you're a Topre man. How could you really give it your best?


Just FYI, the president has no control over this. The cases that you're talking about happened in Colorado/New Mexico and happened under Colorado/New Mexico state law (and in no other state, as far as I can tell), not federal law. No federal anti-discrimination law (e.g. the FHA, Title VII, etc.) even protects same-sex couples. Let alone the fact that the president has little to no control over federal anti-discrimination law apart from veto power.

It's just important to mention this b/c in the presidential debates this stuff gets mixed up. See e.g. Trump claiming he's going to change the libel laws, which are purely matters of state law.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:01:13 by bcredbottle »

Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
  • Posts: 992
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:36:54 »
nubbinator, you make many good points. I appreciate your response and the tone it was delivered in. I'll try to address where we share similar positions and where we differ.

Your first point boils down to who should be responsible for a person's life, the State or the individual, and I guess my position is both. I was raised in a time and place where it was assumed that the State was responsible for things such as provide public schooling and a safe environment for children and that it was the parents job to provide shelter, food and clothing as well as providing direction as the child makes his or her way toward independence. Because of that, I'm somewhat annoyed by what I see today, whereby a person, not necessarily even a couple, decide to have children without first taking reasonable steps toward self sufficiency. The State will be there to provide free free breakfast and lunch, a housing subsidy, misc, scholarships, what used to be called food stamps, as well as other forms of assistance such as free daycare and preschool. So why plan ahead? I think these programs were initially set up as a safety net for the welfare of the children but have become a way of life. Today it is assumed that this is the role of government. I don't know if this is good or bad but I do think that the rights and responsibilities of parenting has been diminished and I think that is a tragedy.  There is a part of me that wishes I didn't believe that the unborn have rights and aren't really people yet. After all, it does make the abortion issue palatable and even respectable. You stated that no one forced the woman to have an abortion. I think the point is that the unborn child was forced to be aborted. Life is messy, and we have to deal with reality, so things like assistance for underprivileged children is necessary. We do have to respect life at all phases. Unfortunately, I do think that it sends the wrong message to those who do play by the rules and wait until they are prepared for parenthood before beginning a family and that message is perpetuating, what I think is an  excessive dependence on the State.

I don't have a problem with capital punishment where guilt is unquestionable and I do see a difference between innocent life and a life who has forfeited their liberty by committing certain crimes. I don't have a strong opinion on it though, as long as society is protected from such people.

As for denying service, I think there is an obvious distinction between denying essential services and products, especially where another provider isn't available and requiring an artist to accept a commission that others would be happy to secure.

If you mean by legislating morality, to insist that certain religious dogma is accepted by the entire nation as law, I would certainly agree with you. What I hear from some though, is an attempt to silence any opinion that has a faith based origin and I believe that is not only wrong but also unconstitutional. The truth is, laws are based on morals; we think a practice is wrong, a majority agrees and we make a law.

Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
  • Posts: 992
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:45:45 »

Another, is his support for the rights of people who are forced to provide services which they find morally offensive. A case in point is the baker required to make a wedding cake for a homosexual couple. You may not agree with the bakers views but it is logically inconsistent to insist on the couples right to marry but not the right for a businessman to have an opposing opinion on the morality of it. Especially in the case of a baker, whose craft involves a certain amount of artistry. Imagine being forced to build a custom keyboard for someone who wants Alps when you're a Topre man. How could you really give it your best?


Just FYI, the president has no control over this. The cases that you're talking about happened in Colorado/New Mexico and happened under Colorado/New Mexico state law (and in no other state, as far as I can tell), not federal law. No federal anti-discrimination law (e.g. the FHA, Title VII, etc.) even protects same-sex couples. Let alone the fact that the president has little to no control over federal anti-discrimination law apart from veto power.

It's just important to mention this b/c in the presidential debates this stuff gets mixed up. See e.g. Trump claiming he's going to change the libel laws, which are purely matters of state law.

Thanks for pointing this out. The President does have, or at least should have limited power. I think where they stand on positions are important for us to know when it comes to things such as Supreme Court nominees. I know it's not suppose to be ideological and political but we all know that it is.

As for state laws, many recent SCOTUS rulings have favored Federal laws over State's rights, but your point is well made.

Online fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6473
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:15:57 »
favored Federal laws over State's rights

Federal Law always trumps "State's rights" per Article VI, Section 2

good thing, too
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
  • Posts: 992
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:35:00 »
favored Federal laws over State's rights

Federal Law always trumps "State's rights" per Article VI, Section 2

good thing, too


Thanks for the correction to my poorly worded comment. If there were any question about the supremacy clause, I think the answer was driven home 150 years ago.

Would it have been more accurate to say that the Supreme Court has allowed recently challenged federal laws to stand that give more control to the Federal Government?

Offline tigersharkdude

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1488
  • Location: At the gym
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:50:14 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

This x Infinity

Offline hwood34

  • underwater squad
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5917
  • Location: USA
  • #1 CL stan
    • Keyboard Illuminati
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 15:55:30 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

This x Infinity

I mean she's almost definitely going to...

At least in polls Kasich looks like the only one that would win over her and we all now what sort of chance Kasich has...
IV KWK Info Thread & KBK Info Thread IV (out of date)

Old GBs: Gateron Switches (2015) | CF-LX R1 (2015) | CF-LX R2 (2017) | CF-LXXX (2017) | Gen.s Gem Caps (2015)

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"

Online fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6473
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:01:43 »
This x Infinity

Good thing that none of you people need affordable health care, because it evaporates if Republicans regain control.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline whmeltonjr

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1119
  • Location: TX
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:03:16 »
This x Infinity

Good thing that none of you people need affordable health care, because it evaporates if Republicans regain control.

Mine went up this year. Thanks Obama.

Online fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6473
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:11:36 »
Mine went up this year. Thanks Obama.

*Right*

Insurance companies never raised their rates before Obama was elected.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline nubbinator

  • Dabbler Supreme
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 8658
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Model M "connoisseur"
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:40:11 »
This x Infinity

Good thing that none of you people need affordable health care, because it evaporates if Republicans regain control.

I'm no fan of the Republican candidates, but given the Clinton history, I honestly doubt she'd be any better on that front.

Offline tigersharkdude

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1488
  • Location: At the gym
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:45:45 »
This x Infinity

Good thing that none of you people need affordable health care, because it evaporates if Republicans regain control.

what exactly is affordable about the current health system? When the "affordable care act" went into affect my mothers health insurance doubled ....


"Luckily" for me, my genetic disorder has put me on Disability

Online fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6473
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 17:57:09 »

When the "affordable care act" went into affect my mothers health insurance doubled ....


Do you care to bet me $10 that her previous policy was did not meet the minimum standards and was thus no longer acceptable because it was not really any good?

And that the new one really covers something meaningful?

Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline mastermachetier

  • Posts: 59
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 22:26:17 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

This x Infinity

I mean she's almost definitely going to...

At least in polls Kasich looks like the only one that would win over her and we all now what sort of chance Kasich has...

Kasich is the only person that looks somewhat reasonable and I can actually agree with some of his points. He seems to consider things reasonably before speaking. The other candidates look like children bickering compared to him. On a side not run drinking game if you want to die, take a shot every time Ronald Reagan is mentioned in a republican debate.

Offline hwood34

  • underwater squad
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5917
  • Location: USA
  • #1 CL stan
    • Keyboard Illuminati
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 22:28:11 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

This x Infinity

I mean she's almost definitely going to...

At least in polls Kasich looks like the only one that would win over her and we all now what sort of chance Kasich has...

Kasich is the only person that looks somewhat reasonable and I can actually agree with some of his points. He seems to consider things reasonably before speaking. The other candidates look like children bickering compared to him. On a side not run drinking game if you want to die, take a shot every time Ronald Reagan is mentioned in a republican debate.
Honestly he has a pretty moderate, reasonable stance on most issues. Obviously I sint agree on everything (like outlawed abortions accept just in cases of rape and incest and a constantly balanced budget) but I'd take him over any other candidate at this point.
IV KWK Info Thread & KBK Info Thread IV (out of date)

Old GBs: Gateron Switches (2015) | CF-LX R1 (2015) | CF-LX R2 (2017) | CF-LXXX (2017) | Gen.s Gem Caps (2015)

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"

Offline Waateva

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1782
  • Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 09 March 2016, 12:34:53 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

This x Infinity

I mean she's almost definitely going to...

At least in polls Kasich looks like the only one that would win over her and we all now what sort of chance Kasich has...

Kasich is the only person that looks somewhat reasonable and I can actually agree with some of his points. He seems to consider things reasonably before speaking. The other candidates look like children bickering compared to him. On a side not run drinking game if you want to die, take a shot every time Ronald Reagan is mentioned in a republican debate.

You could do that just watching the ads that Marco Rubio is running.

Otherwise, I am for once really proud of Michigan and our choice of Sanders yesterday, especially given the fact that he was down by over 20 points to Clinton in the last poll.  It also looks to be the biggest upset in US primaries polling since they started running them, as he made up almost 25 points to take it away from Hillary!
Duck Blackbird - Gaterstotles /// O'Mira - V Blacks /// LZ GH v2 - V Clears /// Leopold FC980C /// TGR Jane CE v2 (unbuilt) /// Lin Dolphin 2021 (unbuilt)

Online fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6473
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 09 March 2016, 13:35:35 »
he made up almost 25 points to take it away from Hillary!

I fear that Hillary might throw a Trump-sized tantrum if she somehow loses, or looks like she is going to lose, the nomination - again - instead of simply accepting the fact that she has always been a profoundly unattractive candidate. And that she will look for her own running mate and shun Bernie. Although I would be quite happy to see him as Secretary of the Treasury, and she would owe him that at the minimum.

Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015