Author Topic: GB Requirements Suggestion thread  (Read 12598 times)

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Offline Michael

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GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 19:57:00 »
I was speaking about this on slack, but thought I would bring it up here. Basically requiring GB organizers to follow a deadline schedule as a requirement to starting a GB.
Essentially saying, if they don't think they can adhere to these rules, then they will not be able to start a buy.

Initial thoughts for requirements -

1. Require that the GB organizer keeps a short deadline in which orders can be placed , lets say 30 days tops. After that, they must close orders and submit to GMK (or whichever manufacturer)
2. Require a timeframe in which the organizer has to submit funds to the manufacturer (assuming they met MOQ), maybe another 30 days. They must submit proof of the transaction in the OP of the buy thread
3. If #2 isn't met, and the organizer flakes, people should be advised to open a dispute in PayPal to retrieve their funds safely within the 180 day time period in which they are able to do so.
4. Consistent communication through each of these steps from the organizer.

Now as for production run-time from the manufacturer, we should take this into account as well. But the above requirements would just safeguard people in the GB from the organizer taking off with their
cash.

Your constructive input is welcome. I am merely offering suggestions on how to avoid another tragedy like Miami Nights, etc.


Offline ghostjuggernaut

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:18:48 »
I think that this is a very good suggestion, possibly the best one I have seen so far.  I will make sure that this, and other options, are discussed with the Mod Team.

Offline romevi

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:21:20 »
Pretty good outlines. I'd also like some structure on sets once they're in the sender's hands, time frame of when they all should be shipped, and restrictions on future GBs if the conditions aren't met.

But this is a really good start and should be implemented promptly.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:21:23 »
Just curious why would it take 30 days to submit payment?

And what about having a timeline and action plan for fulfillment?

Offline Michael

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:23:43 »
Just curious why would it take 30 days to submit payment?

And what about having a timeline and action plan for fulfillment?


30 days to collect and submit money


As for the fulfillment, that depends on the size and complexity of the order. If the organizer is putting sets together, or if GMK is sorting, etc, that needs to be outlined

Offline romevi

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:24:10 »
Just curious why would it take 30 days to submit payment?

And what about having a timeline and action plan for fulfillment?

I think for some GBs they had to wait on some overseas people to complete the transfer, and then they'd have to transfer the huge sum to the manufacturer. I'd imagine it'd take a few days at the very least.

Offline Waateva

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:24:59 »
This definitely seems like it would be the most realistic type of thing to implement, but from hearing about issues even after the sets are received by the OP I would agree with romevi that something should be implemented at that point as well.  Maybe have a 30-day window to get all sets out as well, unless you "request" an extension of time from the original GB thread participants via a poll or something?
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:28:18 »
I think a longer deadline to place orders is fine, but funds cannot be collected outside of a short 30 day window.  That gives people time to save up a little more money or sell some stuff.   Edit:  You rephrased it in your response to Spamray to say just this.


For point two, I like the idea that after the funds have been collected, they must be remitted to the company within 30 days and proof must be given.  I'm not sure that it should have to be publicly given though.  Maybe allow proof to be submitted to the mods in case the GB organizer doesn't want to release their supplier or personal information.  I know that when I did my plate group buy that even though I put the money up front and then collected funds afterwards that the only proof of payment I could have given was a copy of an endorsed and cashed check.  I would not feel comfortable posting that publicly.

Point 4 is huge.  Even if the update is that there is no new information, that is, at least, still an update.

This definitely seems like it would be the most realistic type of thing to implement, but from hearing about issues even after the sets are received by the OP I would agree with romevi that something should be implemented at that point as well.  Maybe have a 30-day window to get all sets out as well, unless you "request" an extension of time from the original GB thread participants via a poll or something?

30 days to ship everything can be unrealistic for some group buys, especially larger buys.  While it wasn't a massive buy, the buy I ran with the now defunct QWERKeys (which was in and of itself a nightmare for a multitude of reasons), I had a hard time getting everything out in two weeks because it was such a complex buy.  Some buys are just labor intensive and, as such, will take a fair bit more time to ship.
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:31:34 by nubbinator »

Offline ghostjuggernaut

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:32:23 »
Just curious why would it take 30 days to submit payment?

And what about having a timeline and action plan for fulfillment?

It shouldn't.  But 30 days is a reasonable timeline where proof of payment should have been submitted.  If nothing has been submitted by that time, I think chargebacks/disputes would be reasonable.

What would be best, is if we were able to get a representative confirm receipt of payment in the thread as well.  IDK if GMK would be able to accommodate this, but it is something we could look into.  This should hopefully eliminate any doubt from participants that the order had been submitted and paid for.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:32:55 »
Orrrr....

Funnel EVERYTHING through ebay..   Everyone's covered...

Offline Waateva

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:38:32 »
This definitely seems like it would be the most realistic type of thing to implement, but from hearing about issues even after the sets are received by the OP I would agree with romevi that something should be implemented at that point as well.  Maybe have a 30-day window to get all sets out as well, unless you "request" an extension of time from the original GB thread participants via a poll or something?

30 days to ship everything can be unrealistic for some group buys, especially larger buys.  While it wasn't a massive buy, the buy I ran with the now defunct QWERKeys (which was in and of itself a nightmare for a multitude of reasons), I had a hard time getting everything out in two weeks because it was such a complex buy.  Some buys are just labor intensive and, as such, will take a fair bit more time to ship.

That's fine, which is why I added the option to request an extension but maybe just require some sort of an update at that time instead.  I mean it could even be 60 days instead of 30, but hearing these stories of shipments just sitting at people's houses for months which little to no update on what is happening seems ridiculous.
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Offline billnye

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:52:12 »
30 days might be necessary for submitting payment because it takes time to transfer money from the PayPal to bank account, time to set up wire transfer and time for the wire transfer to process and until GMK receives it. For my last group buy, it took me 3 days for the money to get into my bank account, 2 days to get the wire transfer started and then 15 days for GMK to acknowledge that they received it. Some people might be in a situation where this takes longer, so I think 30 days is a fair amount.

30 days is definitely too short for most group buys to do all shipping, especially if the organizer needs to sort the sets themselves.

As long as the person running it communicates and explains how shipping is moving along, I don't see a problem. I would also suggest trying to get more input from people who have run a group buy, instead of getting most of the input and ideas from the customers.

Offline Michael

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:55:18 »


30 days is definitely too short for most group buys to do all shipping, especially if the organizer needs to sort the sets themselves.



I definitely never said 30 days for shipping :P


That would be unrealistic for any GB. As long as they can give realistic deadlines based on experiences with different manufacturers, and if they have to sort sets themselves, etc.

Offline billnye

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:57:39 »


30 days is definitely too short for most group buys to do all shipping, especially if the organizer needs to sort the sets themselves.



I definitely never said 30 days for shipping :P


That would be unrealistic for any GB. As long as they can give realistic deadlines based on experiences with different manufacturers, and if they have to sort sets themselves, etc.
I was referring to Waateva's comment:

Maybe have a 30-day window to get all sets out as well, unless you "request" an extension of time from the original GB thread participants via a poll or something?

Offline Waateva

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 21:04:31 »


30 days is definitely too short for most group buys to do all shipping, especially if the organizer needs to sort the sets themselves.



I definitely never said 30 days for shipping :P


That would be unrealistic for any GB. As long as they can give realistic deadlines based on experiences with different manufacturers, and if they have to sort sets themselves, etc.
I was referring to Waateva's comment:

Maybe have a 30-day window to get all sets out as well, unless you "request" an extension of time from the original GB thread participants via a poll or something?

60/90/120, it doesn't really matter to me, but setting a finite window to hold the leader accountable to seems reasonable to me.  You could of course get more time, which is why I mentioned the request, but letting people know what is going on at all stages of the group buy seems to be the main goal here so why set deadlines everywhere else except for the sorting and shipping?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 21:14:00 »


30 days is definitely too short for most group buys to do all shipping, especially if the organizer needs to sort the sets themselves.



I definitely never said 30 days for shipping :P


That would be unrealistic for any GB. As long as they can give realistic deadlines based on experiences with different manufacturers, and if they have to sort sets themselves, etc.
I was referring to Waateva's comment:

Maybe have a 30-day window to get all sets out as well, unless you "request" an extension of time from the original GB thread participants via a poll or something?

60/90/120, it doesn't really matter to me, but setting a finite window to hold the leader accountable to seems reasonable to me.  You could of course get more time, which is why I mentioned the request, but letting people know what is going on at all stages of the group buy seems to be the main goal here so why set deadlines everywhere else except for the sorting and shipping?

You guys are solving the wrong problem..

It doesn't matter what timeframe we hold the Organizer to..

There is no enforcement, and no legal consequences.. That is the trouble..




If we go through EBAY... that fixes everything....

Offline Michael

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 21:17:58 »


30 days is definitely too short for most group buys to do all shipping, especially if the organizer needs to sort the sets themselves.



I definitely never said 30 days for shipping :p


That would be unrealistic for any GB. As long as they can give realistic deadlines based on experiences with different manufacturers, and if they have to sort sets themselves, etc.
I was referring to Waateva's comment:

Maybe have a 30-day window to get all sets out as well, unless you "request" an extension of time from the original GB thread participants via a poll or something?

60/90/120, it doesn't really matter to me, but setting a finite window to hold the leader accountable to seems reasonable to me.  You could of course get more time, which is why I mentioned the request, but letting people know what is going on at all stages of the group buy seems to be the main goal here so why set deadlines everywhere else except for the sorting and shipping?

You guys are solving the wrong problem..

It doesn't matter what timeframe we hold the Organizer to..

There is no enforcement, and no legal consequences.. That is the trouble..




If we go through EBAY... that fixes everything....

Would you kindly go away, please. <3

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 21:30:21 »
Let's assume we implement the whole 4 points you made in the OP.

Who will hold the Organizer to it...

What action besides more of the same whining and angry OT threads can be taken against the Organizer..

It really solves nothing, because there's no method of enforcement, as there is no legal protection for the sale..

Not only that,  there's also no insurance against the fraud..


Ebay fees might increase the cost,  but the insurance is worth it, and the seller is less likely to commit fraud, because all the documentations are in place to prevent it..

We can have the seller use a verified account tied to his bank account..  If he skips out, there will be significant consequences..


WITHOUT those consequences..  All of this banter is just wishful thinking..



By not going through ebay,  you save about 10 bux,  but now people are out hundreds...    Was that 10 bux worth it.. on the 2-3 or so group buys people get into per year ?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 21:50:22 »
Would eBay even allow for pre-orders?

If someone goes long on a group buy, they will do the same thing they do now. Give excuses, say everything is going along, just delayed, etc, etc.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 21:58:17 »
Would eBay even allow for pre-orders?

If someone goes long on a group buy, they will do the same thing they do now. Give excuses, say everything is going along, just delayed, etc, etc.

Ebay will do 30 days..

We can also go through kickstarter or indiegogo if need be.

Offline digi

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 21:58:56 »
Would eBay even allow for pre-orders?

If someone goes long on a group buy, they will do the same thing they do now. Give excuses, say everything is going along, just delayed, etc, etc.

Ebay will do 30 days..

We can also go through kickstarter or indiegogo if need be.

Or Massdrop, haven't had one issue yet :)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 22:00:46 »
Would eBay even allow for pre-orders?

If someone goes long on a group buy, they will do the same thing they do now. Give excuses, say everything is going along, just delayed, etc, etc.

Ebay will do 30 days..

We can also go through kickstarter or indiegogo if need be.

Or Massdrop, haven't had one issue yet :)

As much as I am grateful to Massdrop for the very first Ergodox run..

I am not familiar with massdrop's insurance policies..

Offline hwood34

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 22:06:06 »


30 days is definitely too short for most group buys to do all shipping, especially if the organizer needs to sort the sets themselves.



I definitely never said 30 days for shipping :P


That would be unrealistic for any GB. As long as they can give realistic deadlines based on experiences with different manufacturers, and if they have to sort sets themselves, etc.
I was referring to Waateva's comment:

Maybe have a 30-day window to get all sets out as well, unless you "request" an extension of time from the original GB thread participants via a poll or something?

60/90/120, it doesn't really matter to me, but setting a finite window to hold the leader accountable to seems reasonable to me.  You could of course get more time, which is why I mentioned the request, but letting people know what is going on at all stages of the group buy seems to be the main goal here so why set deadlines everywhere else except for the sorting and shipping?

You guys are solving the wrong problem..

It doesn't matter what timeframe we hold the Organizer to..

There is no enforcement, and no legal consequences.. That is the trouble..




If we go through EBAY... that fixes everything....

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 22:08:35 »


You guys are solving the wrong problem..

It doesn't matter what timeframe we hold the Organizer to..

There is no enforcement, and no legal consequences.. That is the trouble..




If we go through EBAY... that fixes everything....

It's simple, we kill the Batman


/Legit LOL... 

Thankyou hwood34

Offline Melvang

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 22:25:13 »
For once, I actually agree with TP on this.  TP can also vouch for how often this has happened. 

Realistically, this is all just empty banter.  Not because it shouldn't be so, I do wish there was some way to hold GB organizers accountable.  There is zero method of enforcement and punishment aside from lost reputation, Sherryton/Orignative.  I may not know him personally, so have I ever bought from him or his site, but his reputation alone is enough for me to steer clear form his wares.

I am also a member of the dreaded Toxic set, still have not received cable or black on green alphas.  Am I mad at BL, BC, or CodyEatWorld?  No, only raccoon, because he is the one that ditched.  I don't know all the details, but I believe there was some extenuating circumstances.  Yes he could have logged in and mentioned something, admitted order numbers massively overwhelmed him, something.

But at the end of the day, WHAT CAN anyone here do?  Even if there was actual illegal activities, here realistically isn't much that can be done.  Not sure what statute of limitations are for this situation, but even if charges were pressed, what would that accomplish here, nothing.

On a side note, when I did my GB, I only had 4 parts, across 50 ish orders.  Granted, I wrote out all address's by hand, but I still had everything shipped in a week.  When I went to the post office, I was there close to an hour for all the international orders.  Some people don't have that kind of time to sit at the post office that long.  I realize there are probably ways to do this online, but sometimes for someone just starting with international shipping they might have a couple questions, especially with address format for other countries.
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Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 22:49:08 »
Bro, I like your ideas.

I have been asked a couple of times to run a GB and I always have the same hesitations: 1) what if I have a health/IRL crisis and 2) the temptation of handling so much money with little accountability.

With (1) I guess we could have alternate organizers for a given GB.  They would need to be included from the beginning to make sure they aren't caught off guard I guess.

For (2) I would add that there be a second party (could be elected by the participants, or an appointed senior member, etc.) that is privately CC'd on all communication to/from the manufacturer.

So for example, if I'm running a GB and tp is supposed to be CC'd. I say in the thread, "paid GMK" he can say "no he didn't" or "yep". If GMK drags their feet he can back me up saying "yes, they said it would be here last week and they are late".

There could even be rules about this person has to be in another country, etc. to make sure no funny business.


In the end there's not a lot we can do to totally eliminate risk. But there are things we can do to mitigate it.
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Offline demik

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 22:55:03 »
only requirement should be to give demik a set of whatever is being sold.
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 22:58:14 »
only requirement should be to give demik a set of whatever is being sold.

demik price of all GBs is GB+20% inconvenience fee.

Offline harlw

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 23:20:01 »
I'm on favor of original post.
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Offline Michael

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 24 March 2016, 23:59:17 »
The reason I can't see eBay being a feasible option, would be the manufacturing times. I would think eBay would limit it to 30 days or something, whereas
it would take anywhere from a couple of weeks, to a couple of months. On top of that, someone still needs to sort the sets, so you will still need an organizer
to do this. So between the original suggestion and this, it's adding an extra step that isn't required, and most likely wouldn't accommodate a group buy.


Either way could secure the money, but the end of each option is still a single person or persons sorting and shipping the items.

Offline digi

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:00:26 »
The reason I can't see eBay being a feasible option, would be the manufacturing times. I would think eBay would limit it to 30 days or something, whereas
it would take anywhere from a couple of weeks, to a couple of months. On top of that, someone still needs to sort the sets, so you will still need an organizer
to do this. So between the original suggestion and this, it's adding an extra step that isn't required, and most likely wouldn't accommodate a group buy.


Either way could secure the money, but the end of each option is still a single person or persons sorting and shipping the items.

What about using Massdrop?

Offline Photekq

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:15:11 »
I think the 4 points in the OP are generally sensible.

Running it through eBay is not a good idea. You're going to end up having the GB runners getting scammed/screwed over if you do that, since eBay is so biased in favour of buyers.

I think it would also be sensible to limit people to one group buy at a time. The official announcement of a group buy ending could be either 1) everything has been shipped 2) everything has been received not including replacement keys, etc. 3) everything has been received including replacement keys, etc.
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Offline byker

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:44:08 »
Lets keep this thread on topic please. Cleaned up the personal attacks.

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:44:55 »
Lets keep this thread on topic please. Cleaned up the personal attacks.

did you give out warnings?
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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:44:59 »
Lets keep this thread on topic please. Cleaned up the personal attacks.

Thanks Byker! I'm trying to stay on topic, but Bunny keeps attacking me. Let's be civil people! I've moved on, hopefully he can too.

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:47:18 »
toooooooold you, say anything about ctrlalt and the mods will make you pay OnO
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:50:12 »
toooooooold you, say anything about ctrlalt and the mods will make you pay OnO

I got a warning as well

It has nothing to do with ctrl alt and everything about him **** posting about me all day

He got off pretty light compared to me post to warning level wise
I'M IN THE PROCESS OF MOVING RIGHT NOW, WILL BE BACK AROUND SOON

Offline demik

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:51:46 »
toooooooold you, say anything about ctrlalt and the mods will make you pay OnO

I got a warning as well

It has nothing to do with ctrl alt and everything about him **** posting about me all day

He got off pretty light compared to me post to warning level wise

i haven't really been watching his posts but i don't see any cursing your way.

but eh, it'll be a waste of time arguing it since the mods pick and choose anyway.
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline byker

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:52:29 »
toooooooold you, say anything about ctrlalt and the mods will make you pay OnO

If you want to talk about either of those, feel free to pm me directly. :) I am not against people discussing either of those things, just not in this place.

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:53:18 »
toooooooold you, say anything about ctrlalt and the mods will make you pay OnO

I got a warning as well

It has nothing to do with ctrl alt and everything about him **** posting about me all day

He got off pretty light compared to me post to warning level wise

i haven't really been watching his posts but i don't see any cursing your way.

but eh, it'll be a waste of time arguing it since the mods pick and choose anyway.

The difference is demik you are smart enough to know where the line is
I'M IN THE PROCESS OF MOVING RIGHT NOW, WILL BE BACK AROUND SOON

Offline demik

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 00:53:20 »
toooooooold you, say anything about ctrlalt and the mods will make you pay OnO

If you want to talk about either of those, feel free to pm me directly. :) I am not against people discussing either of those things, just not in this place.

i've already talked enough to photoelectric about moderation.

and of course it always goes nowhere. so nah, im fine.
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 01:17:27 »
The KEY to dealing with Warning levels  is to keep leveling Up..

Eventually, the exp requirement is so high,  the Mods can't keep up with you..

And if you get banned,  that's perfectly fine,  you can cast a VPN resurrection spell..


Microsoft Windows just kept making accounts until the mods let him back in..

There's very little they can actually do against persistence..


POWER to the people.. Down with the Aristocracy..

Offline MAR82

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 03:45:28 »
That solution would be a bit like what justnits is doing with his GMK 9009 GB, and I like it!

Offline katushkin

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 08:04:12 »
For once, I actually agree with TP on this.  TP can also vouch for how often this has happened. 

Realistically, this is all just empty banter.  Not because it shouldn't be so, I do wish there was some way to hold GB organizers accountable.  There is zero method of enforcement and punishment aside from lost reputation, Sherryton/Orignative.  I may not know him personally, so have I ever bought from him or his site, but his reputation alone is enough for me to steer clear form his wares.

I am also a member of the dreaded Toxic set, still have not received cable or black on green alphas.  Am I mad at BL, BC, or CodyEatWorld?  No, only raccoon, because he is the one that ditched.  I don't know all the details, but I believe there was some extenuating circumstances.  Yes he could have logged in and mentioned something, admitted order numbers massively overwhelmed him, something.

But at the end of the day, WHAT CAN anyone here do?  Even if there was actual illegal activities, here realistically isn't much that can be done.  Not sure what statute of limitations are for this situation, but even if charges were pressed, what would that accomplish here, nothing.

On a side note, when I did my GB, I only had 4 parts, across 50 ish orders.  Granted, I wrote out all address's by hand, but I still had everything shipped in a week.  When I went to the post office, I was there close to an hour for all the international orders.  Some people don't have that kind of time to sit at the post office that long.  I realize there are probably ways to do this online, but sometimes for someone just starting with international shipping they might have a couple questions, especially with address format for other countries.

While eBay's format is completely different to a GB, it is better for us to use an already existing infrastructure than to use one we create, because at the end of the day, there are no consequences. Nothing. Props to swimmingbird for starting an Ivan action thread, but there is nothing he can do about it. If anyone screws over the community, all that happens is that they can't come back. So what? Is $10k enough to make up for not being part of a community? Sure it is.

All someone then has to do is wait until they move house, create another email address for paypal, and use a fake name for return shipping and you can do it all again.

We can put loads of safeguards in place, and this will still happen. We can put no safeguards in place, and this will still happen. At the end of the day, the only consequence is the backlash of the community.
Can we get them to build the Alps ten feet higher and get Cherry to pay for it?
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Offline dgneo

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 08:17:54 »
It seems there's a couple of options at this point:

1. If the GB's are to be run on GeekHack with one person collecting money, ensure that within 180 days the payment is sent to the manufacturer. Now, this definitely won't guarantee a smooth outcome, but at least it guarantees the manufacturer has the funds and can begin production on the set. If it's possible, maybe even have a secondary contact with the manufacturer, in the even that person 1 disappears for whatever reason, person 2 can have the caps shipped to them (I don't know if this is even possible).

2. Use a 3rd Party site to run the group buy. Tilt, Kickstarter, Indiegogo, etc. There's got to be options out there, with a bit of research, I'm sure we can find one that would suit our needs.

Offline skycrimes

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 12:52:48 »
dunno if its been said and idk how you would police this, but asking for constant updates still seems too vague. I think there should be a set time period where an update (even if its nothing) should be given. Like 15 days after the gb goes live, then 15 days after that so around the time it closes. Etc. People dont have to wait 15 days if something comes up but something should be said at least every 15 days.

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 14:03:14 »
How the F does anyone plan to enforce all this?
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 14:07:10 »
How the F does anyone plan to enforce all this?

With harshly worded letters posted on GH.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 14:10:53 »
Damn, getting the GB funds for the JD45 buy out of PayPal and into a bank account is proving more difficult than it should be. First, I had to go open a new bank account. That's because I won't have GB funds mixed with my personal finances. I want everything to be separate, so I can keep track of which funds are which. Then I had to add that new bank account to my PayPal account. Then I had to call PayPal to get the monthly withdrawl limit ($1000) lifted. Now I have to wait until their system updates to make the transfer to my bank account, which will take several days. THEN, once the funds are verified to be in my bank account, I can finally make the wire transfer to Taiwan to pay for the pre-orders to be manufactured. FYI, international wire transfers aren't cheap.

I understand that PayPal and the bank want to verify my identity, and funds availability, etc. to prevent fraud. But damn, this is ridiculous!
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Offline Waateva

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Re: GB Requirements Suggestion thread
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 25 March 2016, 14:27:16 »
How the F does anyone plan to enforce all this?

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