deleted

[berserkfan]

forced to delete some of my older posts because of the lies and distortions a certain person has been telling others. I've always been pretty candid and unguarded online, but in the hands of a master liar, everything I say can be used against me.

[chuckdee]

You might try stripe - I've been  thinking about getting an account with them.  Google Wallet is also an option.

And last, have you tried to contact them directly?  Not necessarily a way to resolve things, but they might help you understand what's actually needed.  I'd not make knee jerk reactions like refunding the money- the money might get lost in paypal limbo, and you'd be in a lot worse situation.

[berserkfan]

You might try stripe - I've been  thinking about getting an account with them.  Google Wallet is also an option.

And last, have you tried to contact them directly?  Not necessarily a way to resolve things, but they might help you understand what's actually needed.  I'd not make knee jerk reactions like refunding the money- the money might get lost in paypal limbo, and you'd be in a lot worse situation.

Google Wallet is available only to US residents.
Stripe I've heard is associated with fraud, primarily from buyers claiming their credit cards were stolen.

I usually tell my buyers to use credit cards to fund their paypal purchases, because credit cards offer more protection. And half the time? They say they don't have credit cards. I think there are many more young/ teen geeks here. So they can't use Stripe anyway.

How does money get lost in paypal limbo anyway? To me the easiest and most accountable way is to process refunds. No one can complain after I take a screenshot of the refund. Everyone knows paypal itself is half a scam.

My god, this is getting more stressful than I imagined.

[chuckdee]

You might try stripe - I've been  thinking about getting an account with them.  Google Wallet is also an option.

And last, have you tried to contact them directly?  Not necessarily a way to resolve things, but they might help you understand what's actually needed.  I'd not make knee jerk reactions like refunding the money- the money might get lost in paypal limbo, and you'd be in a lot worse situation.

Google Wallet is available only to US residents.
Stripe I've heard is associated with fraud, primarily from buyers claiming their credit cards were stolen.

I usually tell my buyers to use credit cards to fund their paypal purchases, because credit cards offer more protection. And half the time? They say they don't have credit cards. I think there are many more young/ teen geeks here. So they can't use Stripe anyway.

How does money get lost in paypal limbo anyway? To me the easiest and most accountable way is to process refunds. No one can complain after I take a screenshot of the refund. Everyone knows paypal itself is half a scam.

My god, this is getting more stressful than I imagined.

It gets lost in limbo when you refund, and its questionable (in their eyes).  So at that point, the buyer doesn't have the money, you don't have the money, and paypal gives no recourse.  That's when things are really bad.

[iLLucionist]

Why they do this?

[noisyturtle]

When I sold my KMAC they held the funds for a month and a half.

Read an article once where this guy and his wife were using PP as the payment type for their business and PP put a freeze on their entire business account not letting them get their money for a six month period.

[iLLucionist]

When I sold my KMAC they held the funds for a month and a half.

Read an article once where this guy and his wife were using PP as the payment type for their business and PP put a freeze on their entire business account not letting them get their money for a six month period.

But why? Almost sounds illegal.

[chuckdee]

When I sold my KMAC they held the funds for a month and a half.

Read an article once where this guy and his wife were using PP as the payment type for their business and PP put a freeze on their entire business account not letting them get their money for a six month period.

But why? Almost sounds illegal.

They have your money.  You really going to sue when they just say it's in process limbo?  Anything is legal until it's declared illegal.  I found that out the hard way.  And if you try to go around that when dealing with a larger entity... you'll end up screwed in the end.  A big company was having problems with getting me in the system, and getting the system to pay me.  I waited, and dealt with it, and got all of my money.  A friend was in the same scrape, and sued the company.  He ended up owing money to the lawyers, even though he won the settlement.

[iLLucionist]

When I sold my KMAC they held the funds for a month and a half.

Read an article once where this guy and his wife were using PP as the payment type for their business and PP put a freeze on their entire business account not letting them get their money for a six month period.

But why? Almost sounds illegal.

Yeah I get that, lawsuit is not always or actually always not an option. But still I thought PayPal was decent.. Apparently not.

They have your money.  You really going to sue when they just say it's in process limbo?  Anything is legal until it's declared illegal.  I found that out the hard way.  And if you try to go around that when dealing with a larger entity... you'll end up screwed in the end.  A big company was having problems with getting me in the system, and getting the system to pay me.  I waited, and dealt with it, and got all of my money.  A friend was in the same scrape, and sued the company.  He ended up owing money to the lawyers, even though he won the settlement.

[romevi]

Man, all these horror stories.

Did you ship them all out promptly? I wonder if they're just waiting on you to ship.

[berserkfan]

At this point I may just have to cancel my moving sale, or at least cancel the paypal part.

Anyway I can't move. 'New' house is in a mess. I am suing my contractors. I am fed up.

Anyone wants to buy from me, welcome to use bank transfer and bargain aggressively. I don't want my stuff to go back into storage, and I don't want to deal with paypal. I'm thinking, let the money stay in my frozen account for 45 days or something, and when nothing happens and pp unfreezes, just refund.

If pp never unfreezes well, I'm the biggest loser because I had a pp balance in that account to begin with that was more than twice the largest payment from anyone. Sorry but at this point I'm also thinking about myself. I have lost everything. (Not exactly the fault of my moving sale or anyone on geekhack.)

[noisyturtle]

At this point I may just have to cancel my moving sale, or at least cancel the paypal part.

Anyway I can't move. 'New' house is in a mess. I am suing my contractors. I am fed up.

Anyone wants to buy from me, welcome to use bank transfer and bargain aggressively. I don't want my stuff to go back into storage, and I don't want to deal with paypal. I'm thinking, let the money stay in my frozen account for 45 days or something, and when nothing happens and pp unfreezes, just refund.

If pp never unfreezes well, I'm the biggest loser because I had a pp balance in that account to begin with that was more than twice the largest payment from anyone. Sorry but at this point I'm also thinking about myself. I have lost everything. (Not exactly the fault of my moving sale or anyone on geekhack.)

Don't lose hope. I assume you've already filed a claim? Generally they will respond in 2 business and tell you exactly how long they are going to hold your money for. That's the one thing they have to do, even if they freeze your account they must say why and when your assets will be available again within a certain time frame.

[ghostjuggernaut]

You can refund payments while your acct is limited. You won't have to wait 45 days. I dealt with this when I ran RGBYK, and my understanding is the only options are to refund or provide them the info they want. Someone was able to sort theirs out but had logged close to 50 hrs on the phone with them.

Additionally, stripe is very reputable and a large amount of online purchases are processed through them. However, they aren't remotely like PayPal. You cannot accept individual payments like PP. You have to incorporate their API into a checkout system. Just wanted clear up any confusion over fraud accusations.

[chuckdee]

Additionally, stripe is very reputable and a large amount of online purchases are processed through them. However, they aren't remotely like PayPal. You cannot accept individual payments like PP. You have to incorporate their API into a checkout system. Just wanted clear up any confusion over fraud accusations.

I misspoke.  I meant square.

[berserkfan]

Don't lose hope. I assume you've already filed a claim? Generally they will respond in 2 business and tell you exactly how long they are going to hold your money for. That's the one thing they have to do, even if they freeze your account they must say why and when your assets will be available again within a certain time frame.

Paypal system isn't the same worldwide, from my experience.

It's much less transparent here. Paypal has a big hand to screw over everyone. As stated, they want me to jump through 6 hoops, only 3 of which I can clear. I know that the business registration thing, and the merchandise sourcing thing, is mandatory because we are a major port where scumbags can steal goods and sell online.

Even if I could cook up invoices for my merchandise (eg have every buyer cooperate to say that I was selling artisan caps I made myself) do you think I want to pay $1000 in legal fees to set up a company to receive $1000 in payments for keycaps from lots of small buyers who are already paying much less than what I originally did, and send these out in a cascade of little packages that have to be addressed individually and reported individually on the customs form? I don't have that time or emotional energy.

ghostjuggernaut, are you able to say with certainty the following important considerations:
1) refund can be done without paypal limbo
2) all buyers ie many international buyers can still receive their money back, not just USA buyers who have protection of US laws (I took payments from many countries and am sure many people would be miffed if only US payers got money back)
3) account is unfrozen after that
4) I have access to my original paypal balance before this particular cascade of payments
5) then what next?

I still want to do my moving sale because I still have to move out all the stuff. I really wish to get people to pay by bank transfer, order a heap of stuff which I'm willing to sell real cheap, and then move everything out in huge boxes.

[ideus]

The fees for bank transfers are expensive and exchange rates get against the buyer out of ConUS, like me. Besides, if you refund what I paid you, I will lost money, because I paid you at the higher exchange rate, and PP will refund me at the lower rate. In any case, I am very sorry you are running into issues with PP. Please let us know if you are going to cancel the orders and refund payments, but just be sure to do that soon, otherwise, things are going to get worse for everybody involved in your sale as you let time to goes by. The balance of the CC associated with my PP account will be required to be paid soon, this is another reason to clear things up as soon as possible.

[berserkfan]

The fees for bank transfers are expensive and exchange rates get against the buyer out of ConUS, like me. Besides, if you refund what I paid you, I will lost money, because I paid you at the higher exchange rate, and PP will refund me at the lower rate. In any case, I am very sorry you are running into issues with PP. Please let us know if you are going to cancel the orders and refund payments, but just be sure to do that soon, otherwise, things are going to get worse for everybody involved in your sale as you let time to goes by. The balance of the CC associated with my PP account will be required to be paid soon, this is another reason to clear things up as soon as possible.

OK, good, for you, actually no problem. 

I always tell everyone to use credit card when paying by paypal, because I know if I refund you, money will not be stuck in limbo. Paypal does not dare fxxx with credit card companies.

[ideus]

The fees for bank transfers are expensive and exchange rates get against the buyer out of ConUS, like me. Besides, if you refund what I paid you, I will lost money, because I paid you at the higher exchange rate, and PP will refund me at the lower rate. In any case, I am very sorry you are running into issues with PP. Please let us know if you are going to cancel the orders and refund payments, but just be sure to do that soon, otherwise, things are going to get worse for everybody involved in your sale as you let time to goes by. The balance of the CC associated with my PP account will be required to be paid soon, this is another reason to clear things up as soon as possible.

OK, good, for you, actually no problem. 

I always tell everyone to use credit card when paying by paypal, because I know if I refund you, money will not be stuck in limbo. Paypal does not dare fxxx with credit card companies.

That's good to know then, again, I am very sorry for you running into issues.

[Venatorious]

Dude good luck.  This makes me scared about my PP revenue as well.

[berserkfan]

Dude good luck.  This makes me scared about my PP revenue as well.

If you are selling on ebay it is usually better for you - you just pay more fees.

Also you are in USA which is less tightly regulated than Singapore. Because of the trade, international money flows and the many foreigners here, the government is always on the lookout against potential money laundering.

[smknjoe]

Venmo? I've never had any trouble with it.

[LunarisDream]

That's rough, dude. I'm in the same boat, but this didn't happen when I had about $2.5k go into my account for my previous GB. It's now happening to my current GB, and because it's a GB, I also have no invoices or business info to provide.

It sucks ****s.

[berserkfan]

That's rough, dude. I'm in the same boat, but this didn't happen when I had about $2.5k go into my account for my previous GB. It's now happening to my current GB, and because it's a GB, I also have no invoices or business info to provide.

It sucks ****s.

Uh, what are you doing to resolve the issue?

I think the problem with me is that I don't have any good explanation other than a garage sale online for stuff that has very little local appeal, such as buckling spring keyboards.

But paypal wants proof of source for me, not just ownership.

[iLLucionist]

That's rough, dude. I'm in the same boat, but this didn't happen when I had about $2.5k go into my account for my previous GB. It's now happening to my current GB, and because it's a GB, I also have no invoices or business info to provide.

It sucks ****s.

Uh, what are you doing to resolve the issue?

I think the problem with me is that I don't have any good explanation other than a garage sale online for stuff that has very little local appeal, such as buckling spring keyboards.

But paypal wants proof of source for me, not just ownership.

Why they doing this? To delay the process so it takes longer for you to get your money?

[berserkfan]

But paypal wants proof of source for me, not just ownership.

Why they doing this? To delay the process so it takes longer for you to get your money?
[/quote]

No, as I have told other people, we are one of the world's highest volume ports and also an international financial center. Goldman Sachs HQ is one of the most expensive buildings in this city. Put that together, and possibly there is money laundering going on or stolen goods being sold online. USA has no concerns about money laundering because almost all your pp transactions are domestic, so I hear of people in GBs collecting 5k or 15k before account gets suspended.

I was nearly strip searched two days ago at a warehouse for totally unrelated reasons. Part of my recent work.

[ghostjuggernaut]

I refunded everyone's orders for RGBYK, and had no issues. Not saying that this is the best coarse of action for you, but it worked for me. I did have to speak with PP about getting fees refunded since it was their fault.

Good luck.

[berserkfan]

I refunded everyone's orders for RGBYK, and had no issues. Not saying that this is the best coarse of action for you, but it worked for me. I did have to speak with PP about getting fees refunded since it was their fault.

Good luck.

OK, doesn't paypal auto refund the FEES as well? Whenever I do refund the always refund the fees.

So after that do you get access to your account, or do you have more trouble again and have to jump through bureaucratic hoops?

[ghostjuggernaut]

I had a balance of ~-$65 after I did refunds. I had to contact then to fix it. I had to contact them in order to get my account reinstated, but they did it without issues. My personal advice would be to try and sort it out with them and use refunds as a last ditch effort. I'm not involved with your sale, but I imagine many people would like to receive what they paid for.

Good luck

[henz]

what i did beforehand starting a gb, was calling paypal and said i was running a gb. Never had any problems

[ideus]

what i did beforehand starting a gb, was calling paypal and said i was running a gb. Never had any problems

You did your homework, to prevent is always better than to fix.

[LeandreN]

what i did beforehand starting a gb, was calling paypal and said i was running a gb. Never had any problems

You did your homework, to prevent is always better than to fix.

Yeah, I also called PayPal before all my GBs. Some problems, but none have stopped me yet.

[iLLucionist]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

[chuckdee]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

Experience?  Talking to others?  I didn't know that my CC would freeze my account if I was out of town using it, but they did.  Now, whenever I'm taking a trip, I call them to let them know.

It sucks, but that's the way it is.

[iLLucionist]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

Experience?  Talking to others?  I didn't know that my CC would freeze my account if I was out of town using it, but they did.  Now, whenever I'm taking a trip, I call them to let them know.

It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Good to know. I'll probably be really careful before using PP for larger amounts.

[smknjoe]

Venmo...no problems with larger amounts.

[smknjoe]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

Experience?  Talking to others?  I didn't know that my CC would freeze my account if I was out of town using it, but they did.  Now, whenever I'm taking a trip, I call them to let them know.

It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Yep, I have to do the same.

[berserkfan]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

EXACTLY! I have been on geekhack damn long, and I have never read anyone say that you have to inform them before this. Some more I thought GBs are in their multi thousands. I had barely collected $1k. To go to the trouble to run a $1k scam is stupid beyond belief.

[berserkfan]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

Experience?  Talking to others?  I didn't know that my CC would freeze my account if I was out of town using it, but they did.  Now, whenever I'm taking a trip, I call them to let them know.

It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Good to know. I'll probably be really careful before using PP for larger amounts.

I was already careful, but thought it applied to big payments and payments totalling a lot of money. This amount is ridiculously small.

BUSINESS REGISTRATION?

how can anyone do a moving sale like this? Don't tell me I am the only person in the world to do a Craigs' List? Oh, lemme guess, everyone who uses Craigs' List pays in cash and local pickup.

[byker]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

Its an anti-scam measure. If someone who rarely collects money, suddenly receives several large payments, it makes sense to me why they would lock it. After your account has history of larger transcations, there are fewer issues (think vendors who have run several large buys)

[berserkfan]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

Its an anti-scam measure. If someone who rarely collects money, suddenly receives several large payments, it makes sense to me why they would lock it. After your account has history of larger transcations, there are fewer issues (think vendors who have run several large buys)

So in other words, the way to be a scammer is to scam large sums from lots of people rather than sell cheapo stuff to a small number of people? OK, good to know.

 

[nubbinator]

Nah, just invoice people for everything and input shipping updates on Paypal.  Most of the time I see people having issues it's when they don't do invoicing properly and don't have anything being shipped.

[berserkfan]

OK, you can see for yourself. Not that many buyers, not such big sums of money.

I cross my fingers and hope everyone is getting his money back. I might not be getting my money back. The last time I called paypal, they kept me up for 2 hours and 2 hours of time is what I don't have at the moment (plus I don't want the emotional aggravation) so I might not be touching this issue again until the end of the month.

Thanks to the guy who suggested Moneygram. I have done some research, and Moneygram is really promising. It reminds me of my first few years on ebay, when everything was sent via money order rather than this Paypal nonsense.

[byker]

Still it is weird that PayPal does this. How are you supposed to find out that you have to inform them beforehand before doing large values / gb?

Its an anti-scam measure. If someone who rarely collects money, suddenly receives several large payments, it makes sense to me why they would lock it. After your account has history of larger transcations, there are fewer issues (think vendors who have run several large buys)

So in other words, the way to be a scammer is to scam large sums from lots of people rather than sell cheapo stuff to a small number of people? OK, good to know.

 

I don't think it matters how many payments you receive, its probably more due to going over a limit of money in a time period. I agree with nubs though, I think it can be solved fairly easily, by being transparent with your process.

[berserkfan]

All the time I hear from people that paypal is 'safe'. SAFE? Look at the time stamps.

That's right, after they suspended my account, I was still receiving payments.

In other words even if Paypal thinks you are a scammer they still take money from other people to give to you.

One of these guys was from Thailand. IE same time zone as Singapore; there cannot be any doubt about the time stamp. He paid 2 hours later into a suspended account and paypal didn't stop him.

I know for sure that one of these payors was using a cash balance Paypal. That's not good. I always recommend to people to use paypal payment by credit card, because that is the only way you are truly protected.

[tp4tissue]

You have to keep calling them to get some more information..

Emails usually take much longer,  because the service reps Skim, due to the volume they work with.. and they're very tired of reading the same few sentences.

I don't see a way around this besides hitting the fone..

[berserkfan]

You have to keep calling them to get some more information..

Emails usually take much longer,  because the service reps Skim, due to the volume they work with.. and they're very tired of reading the same few sentences.

I don't see a way around this besides hitting the fone..

Show Image

I will definitely try on Monday, but in my current work I can't really use the phone much because people demand my attention. IE I can't spend 1 hour uninterruptedly listening to their automated system, and these *******s only work 9-6 local time. Issue might not be resolved for weeks.

[chuckdee]

Venmo? I've never had any trouble with it.

Did you actually just say venmo?  The one that says at the bottom of the page, "Venmo is a service of PayPal, Inc., a licensed provider of money transfer services. All money transmission is provided by PayPal, Inc. pursuant to PayPal, Inc.’s licenses. © 2015 PayPal."?

[smknjoe]

Venmo? I've never had any trouble with it.

Did you actually just say venmo?  The one that says at the bottom of the page, "Venmo is a service of PayPal, Inc., a licensed provider of money transfer services. All money transmission is provided by PayPal, Inc. pursuant to PayPal, Inc.’s licenses. © 2015 PayPal."?

I know that it's owned by PP. Have you actually used it, or are you just pointing that fact out?

[chuckdee]

Venmo? I've never had any trouble with it.

Did you actually just say venmo?  The one that says at the bottom of the page, "Venmo is a service of PayPal, Inc., a licensed provider of money transfer services. All money transmission is provided by PayPal, Inc. pursuant to PayPal, Inc.’s licenses. © 2015 PayPal."?

I know that it's owned by PP. Have you actually used it, or are you just pointing that fact out?

Pointing it out... since he's having problems with Paypal currently, and Venmo is covered by the same terms of service.

Specifically, it says this a few times:

Payment investigation is a process by which Company reviews certain potentially high-risk transactions. If a payment is subject to payment investigation, Company will place a hold on the payment and may provide notice to the recipient. Company will conduct a review and either clear or cancel the payment. If the payment is cleared, Company will provide notice to the recipient. Otherwise, Company will cancel the payment and the funds will be returned. Company will provide notice to you by email and/or in the account history tab of your Venmo account if the payment is canceled.

Time had a pretty good article also on how Venmo transactions are not instantaneous like they seem, and can result in you being scammed.

http://time.com/money/4036511/venmo-more-check-than-cash/

Venmo seems to me to be lipstick on a pig.  And if you're willing to use Venmo, then you might as well be using paypal.

[smknjoe]

Of course, it's not going to help in this particular situation, but Venmo is a good alternative for future transactions.

I can only speak from experience...Venmo assumes that you are NOT a business and you are transferring money with someone you know and trust. So, for example, if you give your "friend" $2500 to pay him back for whatever Venmo works out well (in my experience.) If you want buyer/seller protection then you need to use PayPal which is designed more for business transactions.