Author Topic: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!  (Read 18251 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Most of us geeks are too poor to afford an actual cable quality certification tester..



(A Fluke DTX tester costs $12,000  __  that's Twelve-Thousand Dolrruu)



However, There exists a poor man's solution..

You need an Intel ethernet adapter.. (something after year 2010)

And, be running in Gigabit Mode -to- your Router,

Do not Test through to a switch, must test through to wherever you're getting DHCP. Router, ONT, or Cable-Modem

The Proset driver package software has a cable length approximation test..

If it says 0 Meters,  and your cable is (greater than)> or (equal)= to 9 meters (the inherent error)..

Then it's definitive that your cable is at least Decent..


Tp4's new ethernet cable is  23awg, STP-vanilla, 31 meters long.. 

tested result -0- meters. 

138981-0

I found out my old -SSTP cables are ****-tier cables.. pulled all 150 meters of that crap..

The same 31 meters of that sstp cable tested 8 meters.. piece of ****...makes me so mad...



_____________________________________________________________________

Copper Cable Basics:

Shorter = Better..  the Longer the run, the more the signal internally refracts causing attenuation..

Thicker is better (for Signal)
..  Lower electrical resistance means lower power loss, less heat, better signal.

Thinner is better (for Flexibility)

Solid Cables.. are Better than Stranded cables for Signal..

Stranded Cables.. are Better than Solid cables for Laptops, as stranded cables are Soft and can move..   They are sometimes referred to as tactical cables..

---- For desktop computers (no movement), always use Solid cables if possible.


Thickness,  Cable Gauge..

The lower the Gauge number, the Thicker the cable..

The gauge number stat on Ethernet cables refers to the thickness of the Conductor..(metal inside twist pairs)

---- Typically, there are 3 options available. 26awg, 24awg, 23awg..

-----------26awg is fine for very short runs, a few feet
-----------24awg is fine for longer runs, less than 100 feet
-----------23awg solid is typically the industry standard and can go the full distance 100s of meters (depending on construction quality of other specs of the cable.)

Tightness of Twists..

There are 4 twist pairs in a standard ethernet cable.. @ Gigabit speeds, all 4 pairs are active, @ 100Mbit, only 2 pairs are active.

Each of the 4 pairs has a different twist rate, this helps the network card differentiate and filter out crosstalk..  -Internal crosstalk- is the EM interference of the cable on itself, -External crosstalk- is the EM interference of the cable on OTHER cables.

Some very-very cheaply constructed cables reduce the number of twists per inch in the cable to save on material (copper)..  These will not perform as well as higher twist rate cables..

--Thicker cables meant for longer runs also have a twist rate relative to "all 4" internal pairs, I am not personally sure how this factor influences the signal... I am guessssing, the more tightly twisted 4 pairs would mean they won't move relative to -each other- as much when you bend the cable, therefore preserving a more uniform signal quality.


Cable Material:


Solid Copper

Stranded Copper

Copper Clad aluminum (DO NOT BUY, it's Crap.. ) it's made from an aluminum conductor coated with copper. (cheaper to produce)



Central Spine:

Inside quality cables meant for longer runs,  there is a central plastic spine, this separates the 4 twist pairs, reducing crosstalk = better signal..

---- The central spine is also what influences how much the 4 pairs internally twist relative to each other.. the twist rate of each pairs themselves are independent of the central spine twist.


Shielding..


UTP Unshielded Cables
STP There is outer Foil Shield 
SSTP There is outer Foil Shield + Individual pair inner foil shield
STP There is outer Screen mesh + outer Foil Shield 
SSTP There is outer Screen mesh + Foil Shield + individual pair foil shield 

The more shields the better.. HOWEVER.. many manufacturers are making Crappy SSTP cables, they are shielded, but they have a reduced twist rate, and they may not even measure up to UTP, un-shielded cables..

Connectors..

Cat5 connectors are straight across if you look at the terminated ends
Cat6 connectors are staggered.. up down up down

There are shielded and none shielded connectors..

If you buy a shielded cable, you will need a shielded connector to unlock the shielding ability

If you terminate a shielded cable with a regular non-shielded connector, the Cable will NOT be shielded.. for the Cable to be shielded, the Ground wire of the cable MUST be terminated to a Shielded connector, thereby draining EM interference into the GROUND of the PC..

--- Incidentally, this means your HOUSE also has to be properly Grounded,  If not.. then No shields..

Connectors also have an internal hole size.. MOST connectors are meant for 24awg cables, they will also fit a 26awg cable, but NOT a 23 awg cable..

The 23 awg connectors will fit a 24, but it is not recommended to use a 26awg cable, because 26awg is too thin and may not make proper contact with the terminal pins of 23awg hole connectors.


Lastly

Don't be Fooled by Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, Cat6e, Cat6a, Cat7, Cat7a
...   There is no regulation on the sellers.. they can make any cable, and label them anything they like..

---- The reason the market is so Ghey is because a lower quality cable can still support high speeds, as long as the run is short..

---- So,  if you made an Infinitely short cable..  Theoretically, you can label it Cat 9999^9999, and it would be True...

---- If you want the best cable to suit your needs, you MUST get down to the Detail level, and divorce yourself from the consumer obfuscations,

----------For example, they're not suppose to even sell cat7a cables terminated with RJ45, it has to be terminated with GG45,   so if you see them selling cat7a terminated with RJ45,  it's pure marketing bull****.

---------- Cat-7, Cat-7a aren't actually a recognized standard..  MOST sellers you will find on google are selling cables that won't even properly support the preliminary spec of cat 7a..







Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3077
  • Location: England
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:19:12 »
No fair, I have the same model but none of those fun tabs :'(

Edit:  Updated driver, still not there.  What version of Windows you running tp4?
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:24:38 by suicidal_orange »
                               
Ducky Zero, MX Reds    JD40, Jailhouse Blues           GH60
Soarer controller

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:36:04 »
No fair, I have the same model but none of those fun tabs :'(

Edit:  Updated driver, still not there.  What version of Windows you running tp4?

??

Tp4 are running windows 7..

Did you install the full Proset package ?


You have to be running Gigabit mode to test..   at 100MBit setting, it doesn't go at high enough frequency, the test is not available.

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3077
  • Location: England
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:42:34 »

You have to be running Gigabit mode to test..   at 100MBit setting, it doesn't go at high enough frequency, the test is not available.

That would do it.  Pretty sure my unshielded 10m cable running through a hole shared by an in use power socket wouldn't cope with 100MBit of throughput so I never bothered to upgrade the switch.

I only wanted to laugh how long it thought it was because it must be so terrible :))
                               
Ducky Zero, MX Reds    JD40, Jailhouse Blues           GH60
Soarer controller

Offline FreeCopy

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 712
  • Location: AZ, US
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:43:05 »
Unless there is something really screwed, the cable should be more than adequate for home internet use. I have access to a DTX through my company and have taken it home many times for personal testing. It takes an incredible amount of abuse to slow down your average 5e or 6 cable. For a cable to be rated 5e or 6 it must be capable of a minimum throughput.

Even the cheapest cable will be good if it's not physically damaged and it's terminated correctly.

This was in response to an argument on cable ties but a bit of insight to what I did once with testing and abuse of a typical cable - https://www.reddit.com/r/cableporn/comments/3iv82i/started_working_installs_a_few_weeks_ago_now_i/cuko8yq
Poker II | Leopold fc500r | Bolt Modded M 1391401 x2 08NOV90 - 19NOV90 | FK-2001 White Alps Clones | Filco MJ2 104Bolt Modded SSK 1391472 27JUL87

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:48:10 »

You have to be running Gigabit mode to test..   at 100MBit setting, it doesn't go at high enough frequency, the test is not available.

That would do it.  Pretty sure my unshielded 10m cable running through a hole shared by an in use power socket wouldn't cope with 100MBit of throughput so I never bothered to upgrade the switch.

I only wanted to laugh how long it thought it was because it must be so terrible :))

haha.. well, 10 meters wouldn't make such a HUGE difference even at 1Gbit..

Try connecting it directly to ur router , you need to be in Gbit mode to initiate the test..

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3077
  • Location: England
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 13:05:13 »

You have to be running Gigabit mode to test..   at 100MBit setting, it doesn't go at high enough frequency, the test is not available.

That would do it.  Pretty sure my unshielded 10m cable running through a hole shared by an in use power socket wouldn't cope with 100MBit of throughput so I never bothered to upgrade the switch.

I only wanted to laugh how long it thought it was because it must be so terrible :))

haha.. well, 10 meters wouldn't make such a HUGE difference even at 1Gbit..

Try connecting it directly to ur router , you need to be in Gbit mode to initiate the test..

A nice 10m run wouldn't, but there's maybe 2m between my computer and the switch on the other side of the wall.  So there's a long unshielded cable roughly coiled after going through a live power socket where it's crushed both sides... I've just looked on the other end and it is actually gigabit - test confirmed, my cable/routing is so bad it's throttled to 100MBit :cool:
                               
Ducky Zero, MX Reds    JD40, Jailhouse Blues           GH60
Soarer controller

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 14:33:26 »

You have to be running Gigabit mode to test..   at 100MBit setting, it doesn't go at high enough frequency, the test is not available.

That would do it.  Pretty sure my unshielded 10m cable running through a hole shared by an in use power socket wouldn't cope with 100MBit of throughput so I never bothered to upgrade the switch.

I only wanted to laugh how long it thought it was because it must be so terrible :))

haha.. well, 10 meters wouldn't make such a HUGE difference even at 1Gbit..

Try connecting it directly to ur router , you need to be in Gbit mode to initiate the test..

A nice 10m run wouldn't, but there's maybe 2m between my computer and the switch on the other side of the wall.  So there's a long unshielded cable roughly coiled after going through a live power socket where it's crushed both sides... I've just looked on the other end and it is actually gigabit - test confirmed, my cable/routing is so bad it's throttled to 100MBit :cool:



If you got power lines near by,  or CCFL lighting (ceiling cable runs),  you need at least STP..

And I've recently found out that Terminating takes alot of skill, and can make a big difference..

If you uncoil the inner twist pairs even 3 extra millimeters, it can make a difference....





Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3077
  • Location: England
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 14:54:55 »

You have to be running Gigabit mode to test..   at 100MBit setting, it doesn't go at high enough frequency, the test is not available.

That would do it.  Pretty sure my unshielded 10m cable running through a hole shared by an in use power socket wouldn't cope with 100MBit of throughput so I never bothered to upgrade the switch.

I only wanted to laugh how long it thought it was because it must be so terrible :))

haha.. well, 10 meters wouldn't make such a HUGE difference even at 1Gbit..

Try connecting it directly to ur router , you need to be in Gbit mode to initiate the test..

A nice 10m run wouldn't, but there's maybe 2m between my computer and the switch on the other side of the wall.  So there's a long unshielded cable roughly coiled after going through a live power socket where it's crushed both sides... I've just looked on the other end and it is actually gigabit - test confirmed, my cable/routing is so bad it's throttled to 100MBit :cool:

Show Image


If you got power lines near by,  or CCFL lighting (ceiling cable runs),  you need at least STP..

And I've recently found out that Terminating takes alot of skill, and can make a big difference..

If you uncoil the inner twist pairs even 3 extra millimeters, it can make a difference....

All I use the link for is internet and that's only 38MBit which it can cope with.  Got a free upgrade to 52MBit soon though so will have to check again then and consider an upgrade to STP if it's a problem.

I've only ever made ethernet cables using solid core so they could be bent to fit tidily to skirting boards we weren't allowed to put nails in.  Worked perfectly but I'm sure it wasn't great, back then 100MBit was as good as it got at home though so it didn't matter...
                               
Ducky Zero, MX Reds    JD40, Jailhouse Blues           GH60
Soarer controller

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 15:36:43 »
OP has been updated with Everything Ya'll need to know to Buy m0ar-f4st cables..


Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 15:38:50 »

All I use the link for is internet and that's only 38MBit which it can cope with.  Got a free upgrade to 52MBit soon though so will have to check again then and consider an upgrade to STP if it's a problem.

I've only ever made ethernet cables using solid core so they could be bent to fit tidily to skirting boards we weren't allowed to put nails in.  Worked perfectly but I'm sure it wasn't great, back then 100MBit was as good as it got at home though so it didn't matter...


A good cable influences more than speed as well..  Lost packets has to be re-transmitted.. which could mean unpredictable latency spikes, and hiccups during usage..

Offline appleonama

  • Trollo en USA
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1315
  • Location: LA
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 15:43:15 »
So is this what tp did on gh downtime?

Offline zombiegristle

  • Posts: 78
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 15:47:39 »
My apartment runs on 26AWG solid SSTP cables with shielded connecters. :D

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 15:48:22 »
So is this what tp did on gh downtime?

Yea.... pretty much...

But I've also continued my Crusade against --Rootwyrm-- over at Deskthority..


Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 15:50:26 »
My apartment runs on 26AWG solid SSTP cables with shielded connecters. :D

Depending on the construction quality, it may or may not be good..

That's why I was so bummed out when I found out that my 23awg SSTP cables were actually not that good quality wise..

Because look at the many details in the OP,  there are so many areas the cable manufacturers could Cut costs on.. 

So, they can make an SSTP cable,  but it could still be a crummy cable because they've reduced copper, used CCA (copper clad aluminum), reduced twist rate, they've lowered the spine twist rate, etc etc..

Offline zombiegristle

  • Posts: 78
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 15:51:48 »
I'll test them later when I'm not being lazy and fishing for pokemon.

I've been meaning to get around to buying a spool and rolling my own cables anyway, do you have any recommendations for good brands/sellers? I like the look of this listing: http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters--Wall-Shielded-Ethernet/dp/B004KPGPXW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465160009&sr=8-1&keywords=23awg+solid+sstp
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 June 2016, 15:55:10 by zombiegristle »

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1500
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 16:39:48 »
Unless there is something really screwed, the cable should be more than adequate for home internet use. I have access to a DTX through my company and have taken it home many times for personal testing. It takes an incredible amount of abuse to slow down your average 5e or 6 cable. For a cable to be rated 5e or 6 it must be capable of a minimum throughput.

Even the cheapest cable will be good if it's not physically damaged and it's terminated correctly.
Exactly, the runs aren't long enough in most homes to matter, even if you lose a little, it isn't worth the huge markup.

Not to mention to get the most out of it, you need more than just the cables. A $35 Belkin router isn't going to do the same as a $200 router. For one or two systems, in a low  use environment you wouldn't see much difference, but load it up with a lot of large data transfers and some torrents and watch what happens. As with everything in computing you need a balance, and it goes the opposite way as well, investing in 10gigabit wires and cards won't help if your hard drives can barely flood a 1gigabit connection.

Contrary to how it looks, it's actually not that easy to flood a gigabit connection with just two average computers. I've done testing with several routers, switches, computers, nics and drives, and most have trouble doing much better than 80%  of the theoretical throughput. Reading a conventional hard drive can exceed gigabit, but writing is much closer, SSD's can flood it pretty easy even for write speeds, but few have SSD drives at both ends. You can have the greatest network around, but if your system can't push more than 50% of the bandwidth it's wasted, unless of course you have a lot of systems pushing 50%, but for most homes, there is rarely more than one or two people taking advantage of the bandwidth, and rarely at the same time.

More than that, you don't need a full gigabit to stream hd movies, wireless G can do it if everything is in good shape and no one else is using it, so while you don't want wireless G, 100 or N 150 will suffice in most cases. There is plenty of wireless options between 150 and 900 as well. So really unless you have a file server, there's really not even a whole lot of need for gigabit in the home as only large file shares really take advantage of it.

I'm not saying don't do gigabit, wired is far more reliable, and there's no reason to go slower, just that you shouldn't spend extra trying to achieve another 5% throughput. Especially when you don't know where your bottleneck is to begin with. Use good routers/switches, and some generic cat5e and call it a day, unless you find a SEVERE bottleneck, which occasionally happens, but not often. Usually you find that the N.A.S. is your bottleneck*, not the wires.

*FAR more common than people realize, home N.A.S. boxes suck.
Filco w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed Jailhouse Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 16:58:43 »

---------------



Everything leslieann says would be the most practical solution..

But it's not just about --Throughput--

There is also latency added due to re-transmits, and time dilation in-games.. input-lag, etc..


And you must also consider the Labor involved in running cables,  kind of a pain if you do the whole house up.. 

So , if you're only gonna do it ONCE...  Do it right the first time... is my point....


Tp4 has done up the whole house 3 times now..... Had I known all the stuff I know now.. I would've saved alot of headache...

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1500
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 18:42:41 »
There is also latency added due to re-transmits, and time dilation in-games.. input-lag, etc..

And you must also consider the Labor involved in running cables,  kind of a pain if you do the whole house up.. 
So , if you're only gonna do it ONCE...  Do it right the first time... is my point....
Tp4 has done up the whole house 3 times now..... Had I known all the stuff I know now.. I would've saved alot of headache...

Typically where you get issues (other than damage or terminals) is when the wire crosses a non ethernet line. Avoid pipes, conduit, electrical cable, tv cables, etc.. Pretty much anything not an ethernet line, shielded or not. Assume nothing is properly shielded or grounded.

Freecopy and I are not saying what you did or saying is wrong, it's just over-kill.
I refuse to pay for more than cat 5e as there is no benefit unless it's a very large home or building, it's unnecessary so long as you have good wiring practices. As mentioned, cat5e has a rating it must conform to, and you can test it before pulling it through the house, if it doesn't perform as it should, demand your money back.
Filco w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed Jailhouse Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (it's like sewing, for Men)
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:05:11 »
There is also latency added due to re-transmits, and time dilation in-games.. input-lag, etc..

And you must also consider the Labor involved in running cables,  kind of a pain if you do the whole house up.. 
So , if you're only gonna do it ONCE...  Do it right the first time... is my point....
Tp4 has done up the whole house 3 times now..... Had I known all the stuff I know now.. I would've saved alot of headache...

Typically where you get issues (other than damage or terminals) is when the wire crosses a non ethernet line. Avoid pipes, conduit, electrical cable, tv cables, etc.. Pretty much anything not an ethernet line, shielded or not. Assume nothing is properly shielded or grounded.

Freecopy and I are not saying what you did or saying is wrong, it's just over-kill.
I refuse to pay for more than cat 5e as there is no benefit unless it's a very large home or building, it's unnecessary so long as you have good wiring practices. As mentioned, cat5e has a rating it must conform to, and you can test it before pulling it through the house, if it doesn't perform as it should, demand your money back.


My point is ,  you Don't KNOW.. you're getting cat5e...  unless you get it from an industry supplier that do bulk deals with data centers,  no body else sell cables that are certified..

And these big suppliers don't often market or sell to the little guys either.. they sell 10,000 feet..



The no-name suppliers that do sell to consumers, on amazon, ebay, they can label the cable anything they like, 5e, 6, 6a, 7, 7a.  anything at all..

Which is why I've had to drill down to the minute detail to discover what makes what..

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
I'll test them later when I'm not being lazy and fishing for pokemon.

I've been meaning to get around to buying a spool and rolling my own cables anyway, do you have any recommendations for good brands/sellers? I like the look of this listing: http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters--Wall-Shielded-Ethernet/dp/B004KPGPXW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465160009&sr=8-1&keywords=23awg+solid+sstp

Hi, zombiegristle,

Looking at the fotos,  that is the exact type of SSTP cable I had previously..

It doesn't have a cable spine,  and it has a very-very-low twist rate on the inside (individual pair twist).

The signal quality is crummy compared to my new cable, which has many more twists per inch, and a Spine.


Basically, it's a ****ty product designed to Trick you into thinking it's good....


That price is also way way overpriced designed to pray on less-sophisticated consumers.. 

Look through my cable guide in the OP, and tick off the characteristics you believe you need..


Or tell me what you're wiring up , and how far away, and I can give you the range.. 


Offline zombiegristle

  • Posts: 78
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 14:57:38 »
Look through my cable guide in the OP, and tick off the characteristics you believe you need..

Or tell me what you're wiring up , and how far away, and I can give you the range.. 

I'm doing multiple short runs under ten feet between network devices, and one longer in-wall run of about 50 feet to a server. The network is used for media streaming and filesharing both on the LAN and externally with average monthly up/down combined usage of over 10TB on the ISP, and the server's hardware is capable of 10G on the NIC and dedicated 5G on each of several storage arrays.

I'm no stranger to rolling my own cables but this is more technical detail than I've ever drilled down to, so any help is much appreciated. My goal is reliability first (this is also my work connection), speed second with "more is better" being highly applicable. My current connection maxes at single-gigabit on the LAN, and it is frequently a bottleneck.

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 15:19:48 »
Look through my cable guide in the OP, and tick off the characteristics you believe you need..

Or tell me what you're wiring up , and how far away, and I can give you the range.. 

I'm doing multiple short runs under ten feet between network devices, and one longer in-wall run of about 50 feet to a server. The network is used for media streaming and filesharing both on the LAN and externally with average monthly up/down combined usage of over 10TB on the ISP, and the server's hardware is capable of 10G on the NIC and dedicated 5G on each of several storage arrays.

I'm no stranger to rolling my own cables but this is more technical detail than I've ever drilled down to, so any help is much appreciated. My goal is reliability first (this is also my work connection), speed second with "more is better" being highly applicable. My current connection maxes at single-gigabit on the LAN, and it is frequently a bottleneck.

well, at those distances,  any problems you may have wouldn't influence -throughput-

You'd only be able to improve latency and -reliability- (reduce retransmits)
If latency isn't a priority, then there's not much to do..   this is simply due to how short a distance you're working with.. not much will go wrong at less than 100feet..

anything that's a solid copper 23awg will do the job even for 10g

Shielded won't matter unless the cable is rolled with lots of other cables.. or if it passes near  power sources, or an Oscillating em field (lights, rotary fans in ducts)


The only time things DO go wrong at <100feet is  26awg, stranded,   or solid CCA..

Offline zombiegristle

  • Posts: 78
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 15:33:35 »
Good to know, thanks. When I replace my cabling I'll stick with SSTP because some of the short runs are right next to (or in a wall box with) several runs of coax and power adapters hooked into a UPS. The long run hasn't been begun yet, so iunno what's inside these walls but I'll err on the side of caution and just spend for good cable upfront.

Do you have a particular brand or seller that you are using, that has good twist rate and central spine? Or, is there a specific preferred rate-of-twist I can ask for to compare while shopping?

Offline FreeCopy

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 712
  • Location: AZ, US
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 15:45:22 »
Good to know, thanks. When I replace my cabling I'll stick with SSTP because some of the short runs are right next to (or in a wall box with) several runs of coax and power adapters hooked into a UPS. The long run hasn't been begun yet, so iunno what's inside these walls but I'll err on the side of caution and just spend for good cable upfront.

Do you have a particular brand or seller that you are using, that has good twist rate and central spine? Or, is there a specific preferred rate-of-twist I can ask for to compare while shopping?

I'll test them later when I'm not being lazy and fishing for pokemon.

I've been meaning to get around to buying a spool and rolling my own cables anyway, do you have any recommendations for good brands/sellers? I like the look of this listing: http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters--Wall-Shielded-Ethernet/dp/B004KPGPXW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465160009&sr=8-1&keywords=23awg+solid+sstp

Here is a cable I can recommend which is a certified cat6 cable. That will most definitely get the job done.

http://www.amazon.com/Uniprise-Commscope-Media-Category-plenum/dp/B00PCK67EG

Manufacturer info page: http://www.commscope.com/catalog/enterprise/product_details.aspx?id=36544

This program at the University of Arizona (http://telemedicine.arizona.edu/) uses this specific cable for the station side of their network, which I have done installs for. http://www.nexans.us/eservice/US-en_US/navigateproduct_540196554/LANmark_1000_Plenum.html

Obviously the backbone is fiber optic.

COAX should have zero interference as it is shielded. If you aren't running your cable parallel to power for more than a few feet, it will be unnoticeable. If you are running parallel to a power source, if you can keep it a foot or more away it will not be a problem.
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 June 2016, 16:12:12 by FreeCopy »
Poker II | Leopold fc500r | Bolt Modded M 1391401 x2 08NOV90 - 19NOV90 | FK-2001 White Alps Clones | Filco MJ2 104Bolt Modded SSK 1391472 27JUL87

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 15:46:19 »
Good to know, thanks. When I replace my cabling I'll stick with SSTP because some of the short runs are right next to (or in a wall box with) several runs of coax and power adapters hooked into a UPS. The long run hasn't been begun yet, so iunno what's inside these walls but I'll err on the side of caution and just spend for good cable upfront.

Do you have a particular brand or seller that you are using, that has good twist rate and central spine? Or, is there a specific preferred rate-of-twist I can ask for to compare while shopping?

There is no standardized twist rate..

Because the cable is usually tested after it's fully assembled to see if it meets spec..

So you can use a lower twist rate, but get other things right, and still pass.. so that's up to the manufacturer.

But, generally more is better.


SSTP , I've not found any credible sellers which deal with small guys like us on this type of cable yet..  I'd be weary about buying any sstp from ANYONE..

IMHO for 10G,  STP is good enough as long as it has a spine and 23 awg

There are guys selling STP without spine,  lots of bull**** going on out there...


I buy vertical cables..  it's basically chinese import, but you cut into it, and it's all reasonable on the inside.. thick copper.. I calipered it myself 0.58mm..  Twist rate is decent, although I'm not sure I like how low it goes on the blue pair, I think it shouldn't be necessary to lower it by that much to differentiate crosstalk.

I've seen some cable manufactures claim 23awg, but actually sell you 24awg..

So you gotta get in there and check for yourself..

Offline zombiegristle

  • Posts: 78
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 17:42:34 »
Awesome, thanks for all the info you guys - I feel much better armed for future work :)

Offline Melvang

  • Exquisite Lord of Bumfluff
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4731
  • Location: Waterloo, IA
  • I support our troops even if the gov doesn't
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 18:14:48 »
I was under the impression that different twist rates between the pairs had a significant impact on reducing interference. 

Also,  I should probably move my cables running between my router and my two desktops.  They run parallel with power for about 4 feet and are trapped over a 4 bulb florescenf fixture.

Though with checking throughput with speed test dot net I am getting all of what I am saying for and then a touch over.
Hacked up and modded IBM F AT, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich
New Thread Soon for Hickory Smoked Three Cheese Italian Blend, NOT KEYBOARD related Opening Tonight
IBM F Revival Services Now with VIDEO

Offline csmertx

  • "No. Let's talk for a long time."
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1698
  • Location: Orlando, FL
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 18:24:56 »
I worked as a tech flunky for a little while some years ago; they had the stuff to make a few cords if we needed it but I had little training on what I was using and why. Reading this could help me source the parts for future builds woo   

Offline FreeCopy

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 712
  • Location: AZ, US
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 19:37:13 »
I was under the impression that different twist rates between the pairs had a significant impact on reducing interference. 

Also,  I should probably move my cables running between my router and my two desktops.  They run parallel with power for about 4 feet and are trapped over a 4 bulb florescenf fixture.

Though with checking throughput with speed test dot net I am getting all of what I am saying for and then a touch over.

The different twist rates do help reduce or eliminate interference or cross talk. This is especially needed in installations running POE.

Depending on your network needs, the interference you get from your cable routing may not be noticeable at all. I would say the light fixture will give you the most amount of interference.

As far as I know speedtest is testing your ISP speed not your network speed. Everything TP is talking about is reducing any slowdowns within your LAN.
Poker II | Leopold fc500r | Bolt Modded M 1391401 x2 08NOV90 - 19NOV90 | FK-2001 White Alps Clones | Filco MJ2 104Bolt Modded SSK 1391472 27JUL87

Offline Melvang

  • Exquisite Lord of Bumfluff
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4731
  • Location: Waterloo, IA
  • I support our troops even if the gov doesn't
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 19:41:33 »
I was under the impression that different twist rates between the pairs had a significant impact on reducing interference. 

Also,  I should probably move my cables running between my router and my two desktops.  They run parallel with power for about 4 feet and are trapped over a 4 bulb florescenf fixture.

Though with checking throughput with speed test dot net I am getting all of what I am saying for and then a touch over.

The different twist rates do help reduce or eliminate interference or cross talk. This is especially needed in installations running POE.

Depending on your network needs, the interference you get from your cable routing may not be noticeable at all. I would say the light fixture will give you the most amount of interference.

As far as I know speedtest is testing your ISP speed not your network speed. Everything TP is talking about is reducing any slowdowns within your LAN.
Gotcha, you are right on the speed test thing.  I have yet to check my LAN side as I don't notice any issues nor do anything even remotely close to that critical.
Hacked up and modded IBM F AT, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich
New Thread Soon for Hickory Smoked Three Cheese Italian Blend, NOT KEYBOARD related Opening Tonight
IBM F Revival Services Now with VIDEO

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 06 June 2016, 19:51:03 »

Gotcha, you are right on the speed test thing.  I have yet to check my LAN side as I don't notice any issues nor do anything even remotely close to that critical.

Dude... gotta get them Fraggs....


Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 08 June 2016, 11:37:51 »
I know my internet isn't faster..

But it FEEELS faster cuz the cables are new..



Online Purp

  • Posts: 51
  • Location: KA
  • the colour, not the weed
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 25 September 2016, 20:23:25 »
This thread is just incredible, the rice one is also pretty good. But the most helpful one has to be the typing guide, I honestly had never thought about resting my fingers on awefjio before reading the thread. Seriously there are so many clever tips that I had never thought about, like hitting the space bar upwards. But I have to say, hitting the space bar with the right thumb is going to require quite a lot of practice. Eventually I'll get there.

Online tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 10114
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Ethernet Cables.. (The Lifeline to Your Digital Self).. Go Copper !!
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 26 September 2016, 09:26:22 »
This thread is just incredible, the rice one is also pretty good. But the most helpful one has to be the typing guide, I honestly had never thought about resting my fingers on awefjio before reading the thread. Seriously there are so many clever tips that I had never thought about, like hitting the space bar upwards. But I have to say, hitting the space bar with the right thumb is going to require quite a lot of practice. Eventually I'll get there.

The right thumb transition should be very fast..

Because you already have the conceptual engagement of --a finger-- for that purpose.

So muscle memory is a function of 2 components.


One is the memorization of having to do Something in Some order..

The Next is the physical engagement of doing that thing.



So, when you change fingers, it's less difficult than most people think if they're comparing the task to the difficulty curve of having learned typing in the first place..




Similarly,  learning a second language is less difficult than learning your first.