On the fence about a new laptop/daily driver

[Psybin]

I need to buy (out of pocket) a new Laptop for work and I'm kind of on the fence as to what route to go.  This machine would need to be my daily driver for four years, bringing it to and from work on a daily basis. At home docked to a larger screen (35" Wide Dell). At work probably on its own, maybe connected to a dual monitor set up (22" I think).

I was waiting for the new MacBook Pro, but I'm a little annoyed at what they did to the ports and its high price vs hardware specs.

A little background, I've always had Windows machines, however I have a newer iPhone and newest iPad. We use primarily Windows at work with a dusting of Macintosh, but I would like to own a Mac to get more comfortable with the platform.

I don’t game anymore, but maybe I'll have time next year'ish, but nothing major. More than likely not though, and if so on the Playstation.

Whatever machine I have I'll be running at least two Virtual Machines. If it is the Mac I'll run Windows 7 and some flavor of Linux, if it’s the Windows laptop I'll run some flavor of Windows and a flavor of Linux.

I know the form factor is crazy good on the Mac which is why I'm so undecided. Some of the programs I'll be running will be resource intensive, but the Mac should be ok. Not doing any video editing/manipulation, but a lot network and forensic tools, etc, and lots of self study playing in the VM's.

I can have the Dell right away, the Mac would be Dec. I may get a family discount of 15% off the Mac and if I do a in store pick up in Delaware.. well they don’t charge sales tax up there (hour drive).

What would you guys do? Is the lightness and form factor of the Mac worth the degradation in performance?

 i7-6920HQ vs E3-1545M

15.4”, 2,880 × 1,800 (16:10), 220 ppi with Wide colour (P3) gamut, 500-nits brightness  vs   15.6" UltraSharp™ UHD IGZO (3840x2160)

16 GB 2133 MHz PC3-17000 LPDDR3 SDRAM  vs  64GB (4x16GB) 2133MHz DDR4

[tp4tissue]

The xeon has a newer graphics iteration with edram,  although I don't think the edram is leveraged by general softwares..


That's really the only difference besides ecc..


Now,  if you're paying out of pocket... mmmmmm,,,, for that price of the mac,  you can buy 2 desktops more powerful than the macbook,  one for home,  one for work..

So........... there's that...


Now, if you must have it in mobile form..  at the macbook price, you can have a REAL xeon system from those botique vendors of giant-laptops..


Those are truly worth the money,  whereas macbook, you're still paying to impress girls at the library,   Which if you're no longer doing, would be somewhat of a waste..



UNLESS you plan on cheating on your wife with a younger girl who you meet at the library..   Then it makes perfect sense to spend $4000 on the macbook..


You will also need to buy a used bmw,   they're cheap, and dumb young females don't know the difference between an expensive bmw and a cheap one..

[Psybin]

Ha, thanks, no I'm happy with the wife and my current vehicle. I don't feel like dealing with a RWD vehicle in a state that gets its share of snow.

I need a laptop, so buying the two desktops isn't worth it.

What boutique vendor? Recommend anyone specifically?

The Mac wouldn't be 4K, much closer to 3k with the 15% discount and no taxes.

Thank you for responding BTW =)

[tp4tissue]

http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,346,0)ec


This will beat the pants off ANY laptop..

It's got a desktop 6700k   and a real 4k  100% adobe rgb display.

Can OVERCLOCK...

That's their workstation line,

you can also get this one,  http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,385,0)ec


it haz the newest gtx 1080 configurable..   You can get SLI 1080 on this laptop for only $4000




So, I really mean it when I say... macbook's primary function is to help you cheat on your wife with a younger female you meet at the library..


Eurocom's iteration (vs the macbook) is something like 2x as fast CPU wise, because it's the desktop 6700k,   and with the dual 1080gtx,  it's at least 30x as fast in terms of graphics...


But if you do cad,  you'd want to go with their workstation lines with the quadro.

[Spopepro]

Linux in VM or dual boot? If dual boot don't go apple. You should consider the one thing you most need/want and not get suckered into chasing specs. You're aren't gaming, and you aren't rendering, so everything is powerful enough in practice.  The extra numbers are marketing. Ease of transport and upkeep is a valid must have and Apple will always have everyone beat on that one. But it might not be your must have.

My must have use case is connecting to a projector, writing on the screen, and having captivate record to package my lectures for later review/study. I also needed Linux to work in dual boot nearly perfectly without too much work on my part. A thinkpad yoga is not a perfect laptop, but it's perfect for the things I need it to do. What's your particular use case?

[tp4tissue]

Linux in VM or dual boot? If dual boot don't go apple. You should consider the one thing you most need/want and not get suckered into chasing specs. You're aren't gaming, and you aren't rendering, so everything is powerful enough in practice.  The extra numbers are marketing. Ease of transport and upkeep is a valid must have and Apple will always have everyone beat on that one. But it might not be your must have.

My must have use case is connecting to a projector, writing on the screen, and having captivate record to package my lectures for later review/study. I also needed Linux to work in dual boot nearly perfectly without too much work on my part. A thinkpad yoga is not a perfect laptop, but it's perfect for the things I need it to do. What's your particular use case?

anything with a NON- sluggish CPU,  only comes in 15, 17 inchers, @ ~7lbs.

And when it comes to portability,  nothing ~7lbs is really that portable..  and at this level, even a 10lb wouldn't make much of a difference, when you're carrying it,  BOTH are heavy..

But as far as power, get work done kind of power,    it doesn't come under 7lbs..

there are no good laptops between 3-7lbs,   the reason for this is,    they will always be too heavy relative to the power they're packing..


2-3lbs is where portability begins.. almost all of these are dual core.  So they're really only good as terminals..

[bastones]

You really should consider carefully with the new MacBook Pro. It only has Thunderbolt 3 ports, so unless all your peripherals and devices are Thunderbolt 3 (not Thunderbolt 2, which uses a different connector design), USB Type-C or Bluetooth, you're going to need to buy adapters which come at an additional expense and potential inconvenience. I say this as a long-time Mac user. Apple are really testing the patience of its pro users at the moment because the only legacy port on the new MacBook Pro is a headphone jack. It's up to you: if you are primarily going to use your MacBook Pro connected to a Thunderbolt 3 dock of some kind - which I don't think exists on the consumer market yet - then it might not be as much of a problem to you. And of course time will likely resolve these problems: as USB Type-C becomes more commonplace on electronic devices, it will force manufacturers like Logitech take notice and start creating mice, keyboards and other peripherals using the USB Type-C connector. Also, OWC has just announced a new Thunderbolt 3 dock for the MacBook Pro. It's pricey, but it looks impressive.

I think most Macs are reasonably priced when you consider the cost of the software, hardware and industrial design, but you will always find the best value buying a PC. It's just the way it is. It really depends what's more important to you. Apple offers a lot with their computers, and so does Dell, but in different ways and certainly not just in terms of the actual product itself.

[vivalarevolución]

Two words:  refurbished Lenovo.  End of story.

[tp4tissue]

Two words:  refurbished Lenovo.  End of story.

NSA pro edition..

[vivalarevolución]

Two words:  refurbished Lenovo.  End of story.

NSA pro edition..

I kinda assume that everything I do on computers is compromised unless I buy an ancient Thinkpad with a custom secure ROM and Tails OS or something.  Richard Stallman style.

[xtrafrood]

Linux in VM or dual boot? If dual boot don't go apple. You should consider the one thing you most need/want and not get suckered into chasing specs. You're aren't gaming, and you aren't rendering, so everything is powerful enough in practice.  The extra numbers are marketing. Ease of transport and upkeep is a valid must have and Apple will always have everyone beat on that one. But it might not be your must have.

My must have use case is connecting to a projector, writing on the screen, and having captivate record to package my lectures for later review/study. I also needed Linux to work in dual boot nearly perfectly without too much work on my part. A thinkpad yoga is not a perfect laptop, but it's perfect for the things I need it to do. What's your particular use case?

anything with a NON- sluggish CPU,  only comes in 15, 17 inchers, @ ~7lbs.

And when it comes to portability,  nothing ~7lbs is really that portable..  and at this level, even a 10lb wouldn't make much of a difference, when you're carrying it,  BOTH are heavy..

But as far as power, get work done kind of power,    it doesn't come under 7lbs..

there are no good laptops between 3-7lbs,   the reason for this is,    they will always be too heavy relative to the power they're packing..


2-3lbs is where portability begins.. almost all of these are dual core.  So they're really only good as terminals..

If you're interested in Linux maybe check out System 76. IIRC there's a new RAID configuration in town that Linux hasn't caught up to just yet that makes it impossible to dual boot on some laptops
http://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-reportedly-blocking-linux-on-windows-10-signature-edition-pcs/

[Leslieann]

Why is it even a competition?
One is a WORKSTATION replacement, the other an ultra light faux pro machine that is really just a normal laptop with no ports. They aren’t even remotely in the same class.

Note If you want Win7, better get it soon as MS has halted Win7 sales to OEMS.


As for the Mac,
Has anyone really put one of the new ones through it's paces, considering the size and their reputation, I wouldn't be surprised if it throttled you due to heat if you push it hard and long. And before anyone starts to say anything, my personal laptops is a Macbook Air.


Personally, I would buy a pair of Lenovo gaming or workstations and load them up with ram. Leave one at home and one at work. Blah blah blah spying, sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

 In any case, if you insist on running it all in VM, I would recommend using Linux for the host OS as it leaves more resources for the VM’s. If you plan on using one OS and use the other in VM, then it becomes a tossup as each OS has it’s benefit, Linux leaves more resources on the table, but Windows could take advantage of the GPU for some computations.

[mike52787]

The 2016 mbp is ****, enough said.

I would personally go with the dell. There is no real competition whatsoever.

[davkol]

Two words:  refurbished Lenovo.  End of story.

NSA pro edition..

Anything with Intel AMT or equivalent is backdoored. If there are other low-level backdoors, it wouldn't be NSA-related, but closer to the Chinese government in case of Lenovo.

On the consumer level, I don't think vivalarevolución is recommending the ideapad garbage, and thinkpads didn't come with that malware in BIOS IIRC.

[tp4tissue]

Two words:  refurbished Lenovo.  End of story.

NSA pro edition..

Anything with Intel AMT or equivalent is backdoored. If there are other low-level backdoors, it wouldn't be NSA-related, but closer to the Chinese government in case of Lenovo.

On the consumer level, I don't think vivalarevolución is recommending the ideapad garbage, and thinkpads didn't come with that malware in BIOS IIRC.

They've updated almost all old business line laptop bioses with new bios locks and battery blocking firmware.   wouldn't be surprised if more spy stuff was added as well.

[Leslieann]

If you are concerned, stick it behind a DD-WRT compatible travel router to act as a proxy/firewall.


If you go back to X220 and X230, you can use open source bios.
Despite seeming older, they actually still hold their own against most common laptops if you add an SSD and load them with ram but admittedly they would get slaughtered by that Dell in most cases.

By the way, the X240 is now the only older X series you cannot bios mod. They unlocked the 250 and 260 last I saw. The 230 you either need 1.0 bios or open bios. It's unknown if the 240 will ever get unlocked. I didn't see it on the open bios site and Lenovo isn't going to do it. T series is probably similar.

Frankly, I'd be more concerned with being locked into Win10 than anything else.

[davkol]

The latest thinkpads, that support Coreboot, are X200/T400/T500 AFAIK. No full-blown Intel AMT there either.

[tp4tissue]

Why is it even a competition?
One is a WORKSTATION replacement, the other an ultra light faux pro machine that is really just a normal laptop with no ports. They aren’t even remotely in the same class.

Note If you want Win7, better get it soon as MS has halted Win7 sales to OEMS.


As for the Mac,
Has anyone really put one of the new ones through it's paces, considering the size and their reputation, I wouldn't be surprised if it throttled you due to heat if you push it hard and long. And before anyone starts to say anything, my personal laptops is a Macbook Air.


Personally, I would buy a pair of Lenovo gaming or workstations and load them up with ram. Leave one at home and one at work. Blah blah blah spying, sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

 In any case, if you insist on running it all in VM, I would recommend using Linux for the host OS as it leaves more resources for the VM’s. If you plan on using one OS and use the other in VM, then it becomes a tossup as each OS has it’s benefit, Linux leaves more resources on the table, but Windows could take advantage of the GPU for some computations.

You don't want X260,,  it's only got single channel ram..

[Leslieann]

As do most new, slim systems.

[menuhin]

Edit: but if you need OSX for any developer reason or software support reason, e.g. you create things for OSX or iOS; or that you're not so technical and want to look pretty like holding a Prada, then you definitely need a Mac.

[itbesandrodoe]

Get the mac, people buy apple to have it last forever. the build quality is top notch and with 4 thunderbolt 3 ports you should be fine, the dongles and adapters are going down in price, and there is even monitors that support usb c only input!