Author Topic: Need an ergo Mouse  (Read 540 times)

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Offline RainbowBlitz

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Need an ergo Mouse
« on: Mon, 09 January 2017, 20:15:09 »
I finally switched over to the ergodox keyboard totally, replacing my razer mech, and now I need a new mouse.

I've been using a corsair scimitar for general mouse usage and gaming and I can only use it, really, when playing certain games; the rest of the time I rely on Dragon to operate my computer. And as great as dragon is, I don't have the same amount of control over my PC as I do with my mouse. I also have to use a mouse for my work as a telecomm drafter.

I had a Kensington Expert Trackball Mouse (K64325) that I ended up returning when I found that it aggravated my extensor tendonitis to the point that the pain in my hand and upper forearm got worse than the pain of my carpal tunnel syndrome.

I need to be able to use a mouse, for gaming and, more importantly, for CAD work.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Offline davkol

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 04:18:21 »
Every pointing device sucks in one way or another. The only solution is to swap more different devices and/or use more body parts (both hands, perhaps feet, eyes or various body gestures). Exercise is obviously important too.

For example, I currently have three ambidextrous devices: a mouse (Mionix Avior), a vertical mouse (DXT) and a trackball (Kensington Slimblade). Whenever I feel even the tinniest signs of fatigue, I rotate the devices (swap hands).

The thing about ambidextrous trackballs is that you have to figure out how to hold them and it sounds like you didn't manage to do that. This is also connected to your overall posture, relative desk height, etc.

Offline LuX

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 08:55:56 »
I've been using the CST trackball for a few weeks now, with extra buttons on the side. The first couple of days were pretty bad and my hand and fingers were badly fatigued (especially the dorsal interosseous) to the point I was almost giving up, but I kept on going and over the course of time it got better. Now I can binge on CS:GO for the entire day and my hands feel pretty much neutral at the end of the day. The same can't be said for a mouse which causes soreness in the wrist and hand. What I like about the CST is that it's so big you can just lay your hand flat on it and it feels much more relaxing than squeezing a mouse all day long. Also once you get used to the high DPI you can just move your fingers to move the cursor across the screen with the wrist staying in place. I'm not sure if I would use it for drawing though, feels a little awkward vs. a drawing pad or mouse. Probably could get better at it through practice.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 10:26:16 »
I have been using a modified WowPen Joy for several years (and also posted about it many times here).
It is slanted at a 45° angle. It looks kinda funny, but it really feels like any regular mouse.
The drawbacks with it was that the sensor isn't anything to write home about - practically any modern gaming-mouse would put it to shame, and the cursor sometimes jitters about on its own. The buttons are also very hard, but I replaced the microswitches with some Omrons from an older mouse and that took care of that issue.
To think of it, those Omron switches have had regular daily use for about FIFTEEN YEARS now, and they still work fine.

It has also been sold under the Anker brand name, or unbranded for cheap on eBay. Anker has now got a couple other mice that are similar in shape but slightly different. Either costs at most $20, so picking one up just to try it out would be no big deal.

BTW. One more well-known vertical mouse is the Evoluent VerticalMouse. I would not recommend it unless you have a serious disability. That one is held completely vertical, which feels very different from a normal mouse and it also snaps your movements to the X and Y axes making it completely unusable for games and very very annoying for tasks such as drawing.
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 January 2017, 10:31:22 by Findecanor »
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Offline RainbowBlitz

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 10:52:27 »
BTW. One more well-known vertical mouse is the Evoluent VerticalMouse. I would not recommend it unless you have a serious disability. That one is held completely vertical, which feels very different from a normal mouse and it also snaps your movements to the X and Y axes making it completely unusable for games and very very annoying for tasks such as drawing.

My work actually provided one of them for me and it helped for a little while. Problem is, with as much quick scrolling and constant clicking that I do within MicroStation, the pain in the back of my hand moved from mildly annoying to incapacitating.

Online kurplop

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 12:00:22 »

I had a Kensington Expert Trackball Mouse (K64325) that I ended up returning when I found that it aggravated my extensor tendonitis to the point that the pain in my hand and upper forearm got worse than the pain of my carpal tunnel syndrome.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I had a similar problem with the Expert Mouse except I knew within seconds that I wouldn't be able to use it as is. Same problem with wrist extension pain. I solved the problem by insetting the EM into a tray to eliminate both the forward tilt and the excessive height. It is an extreme step but ended up working great for me. After 4+ years I'm still using an iteration of the same design. If you haven't gotten rid of yours yet, you may want to play around with your orientation to it.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 12:08:54 »
Problem is, with as much quick scrolling and constant clicking that I do within MicroStation, the pain in the back of my hand moved from mildly annoying to incapacitating.
Ah. I removed the scrollwheel from my mouse at home. I scroll mostly with the Page Up/Page Down keys on the keyboard. No more pain at the back of my hand after too much middle-finger movement.
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 January 2017, 13:40:14 by Findecanor »
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Offline DuckNorris

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 12:55:47 »
For gaming and usual work the most ergonomic gaming mouse is this mionix one and I used this one as this version has an optical sensor which is optimal for gaming ( more reliable than laser ones)
https://www.amazon.com/MIONIX-Multi-Color-Ergonomic-Optical-Gaming/dp/B0046Y0Y20

However, a mouse which you could use for gaming if you leave it plugged it although it is not a gaming mouse but it is one of the best ergonomic ones I am currently using is this one.
https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Master-Wireless-Mouse-Computer/dp/B00TZR3WRM/ref=pd_sim_147_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00TZR3WRM&pd_rd_r=E7P8HAEDWXK6K2VHG4BJ&pd_rd_w=sS4et&pd_rd_wg=yCSzM&psc=1&refRID=E7P8HAEDWXK6K2VHG4BJ


Of course they are both right handed mice. The latter on has an amazing scroll wheel that does not get in the way and it is rapid scroll :D so it reduces the pain in constantly scrolling.  I am a software engineer but also do vector designs with this mouse so it is very steady and reliable.

Online need

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 13:46:39 »
The one true ergo mouse, and it offers various sizes for a perfect fit. It also has 3 buttons, which the middle button is absolutely perfect for panning in CAD. Every CAD users know clicking on the scroll wheel just doesn't work that well.

Using our strongest finger - the thumb for the scroll wheel makes perfect sense too.
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 January 2017, 13:50:12 by need »

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 13:48:51 »
.

Online tp4tissue

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 14:46:00 »
Build my Ergopwn 9000...  Best ERgonomic mouse ON THE PLANET.. //guaranteed..

Link is in my sig..

Instead of g303, you can probably use a gpro or g403 wireless/wired..  because they now have mechanical encoders.. that makes it easier.. and you can skip the step of splicing the internal usb hub.


Online vivalarevolución

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 17:37:58 »
Every pointing device sucks in one way or another. The only solution is to swap more different devices and/or use more body parts (both hands, perhaps feet, eyes or various body gestures). Exercise is obviously important too.

For example, I currently have three ambidextrous devices: a mouse (Mionix Avior), a vertical mouse (DXT) and a trackball (Kensington Slimblade). Whenever I feel even the tinniest signs of fatigue, I rotate the devices (swap hands).

The thing about ambidextrous trackballs is that you have to figure out how to hold them and it sounds like you didn't manage to do that. This is also connected to your overall posture, relative desk height, etc.

This advice is good.

For what it's worth, the best ergonomic mouse experience for me is with the Rollermouse series.  However, Rollermouse is not great for precision type work, so I keep a normal mouse on hand.
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Offline natas206

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 11 January 2017, 10:48:51 »

I had a Kensington Expert Trackball Mouse (K64325) that I ended up returning when I found that it aggravated my extensor tendonitis to the point that the pain in my hand and upper forearm got worse than the pain of my carpal tunnel syndrome.

This is what I use and I had a similar issue but years ago I rigged up something to keep the Trackball in more of a vertical position. Doing so completely solved my problem. I found using the trackball flat is what caused the discomfort in the first place so just adding some tenting to my setup was extremely beneficial.

I'm a trackball guy myself, used them as long as I can remember, but when it comes to ergonomics and Trackballs, there really isn't much  options (not for the larger trackballs). With pointing devices, much more so than keyboards, it really boils down to personal preference. Some people love trackballs, some people hate them, some people like more traditional mice (if so I also recommend trying vertical mice, whether its one of the ones recommended in here or the DXT2 or Evoluent mice or something similar). Whatever it is you prefer, I suggest try tenting it and you may find that solves most if not all of your problems.



Online kurplop

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 11 January 2017, 11:32:36 »
I'm curious about how you tented your track ball.  Coold you describe or post a picture of yours?

Offline menuhin

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 11 January 2017, 12:27:22 »
Just curious.
Is the CST L-Trac as high as the Kensington Expert 'Mouse'?

I definitely agree on rotation between various pointing devices to reduce possible fatigue.
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Offline happylacquer

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 11 January 2017, 23:51:14 »
Gonna suggest the Logitech Trackman although I'm not sure if any other trackballs out there are more ergo.

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Re: Need an ergo Mouse
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 12 January 2017, 00:46:36 »
trackball at an angle certainly solves some of the wrist strain.

But it still requires lateral motion of the wrist, which we know can cause serious problems. because those movement angles are extremely narrow.

A trackball with a good sensor also does not exist.. so rolling your own on this one is harder than splicing a vertical mouse with a gaming mouse. like my Ergopwn 9000