Author Topic: CHERRY switches have NEW stems, supersmooth!  (Read 65917 times)

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Offline Giorgio

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CHERRY switches have NEW stems, supersmooth!
« on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 04:20:48 »
I've recently purchased on amazon a g80-1800 with black switches. Imagine my suprise when I discovered that it was in ANSI layout (instead of ISO), and it had the smoothest black switches that I've ever tried. There is an enormous difference between those switches and my old g80-3000 and g80-1800. In my opinion they are gateron smooth, without the wobble.

I've opened some of the new switches and replaced the stem of an old switch with the stem of a new one. The switch stays smooth also in the new housing. So the difference is in the stem. When you compare a new switch to the old one, you can definetely see that the sides are smoother, and that on the back of the stem there is a smaller gap, which is identical to the new silent switch.



new switch on the left, old switch on the right:

162993-0


the stem of the new cherry mx silent is identical to the new cherry mx black that I have at hand, so the use the same very smooth cast.

162828-2
here you can see the old linear stems. Look at the stem of reds and blacks, you can clearly the differences between the old reds/ blacks, and the new silent switch, which is identical to the new black that I own :thumb:
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 April 2017, 04:50:12 by Giorgio »

Offline need

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 05:38:41 »
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 06:49:11 »
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.

You have no idea what I'm talking about, don't you?

Offline Giorgio

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 06:54:18 »
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.

normal cherry switches are a little bit scratchy if you haven't noticed

Offline need

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 07:35:42 »
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.

You have no idea what I'm talking about, don't you?

Of course I do, and that's why I want you to make a video comparing them. It would be much more convincing in hearing the switches rather than just reading the words.

Offline orpheo

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 07:44:29 »
I have a thousands MX vintage and NOS. And I don't have that scratchy feeling so hyped on fora.
Maybe some new browns but I can type on them if I only had them.
Your new board is from what year?

Offline Giorgio

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 08:28:23 »
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.

You have no idea what I'm talking about, don't you?

Of course I do, and that's why I want you to make a video comparing them. It would be much more convincing in hearing the switches rather than just reading the words.


But there's a very little sound difference.... it's just that they are smoother, you can clearly feel it when you press them, the slower the press, the stronger the scratchiness.
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 March 2017, 08:31:28 by Giorgio »

Offline Giorgio

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 08:30:03 »
I have a thousands MX vintage and NOS. And I don't have that scratchy feeling so hyped on fora.
Maybe some new browns but I can type on them if I only had them.
Your new board is from what year?

The frame of the good one is internally marked as produced in 2015, the scratchy ones... I don't know... All my cherry keyboards have been bought in 2015-2017

Online pixelpusher

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 09:28:37 »
Where the heck did you find one in ANSI layout?

You'll have to keep us updated with what you find on closer inspection.  It would be pretty big news if Cherry somehow managed to get the scratchiness out of their switches.  I'm team Gateron for just that reason, but I would love to have less wobble.

:)


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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 14:38:40 »
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..

so.. no video can be made of this.

everything about keyboards is subjective

i still maintain that the blacks and reds I've got are smooth, but they're also used pretty heavily
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Offline chyros

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 14:47:34 »
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..

so.. no video can be made of this.
No, I think scratchiness is one of the few things that aren't actually subjective. It's even measurable.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline falkentyne

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 16:11:21 »
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.

Videos can't show "smoothness in action" and not everyone has a $1,000 camera that can even capture such details.
You know not everyone on this forum is filthy rich, right?

And I'm not surprised about Cherry improving the quality of their switches.
The RGB MX Browns on my YOTG feel EXTREMELY smooth and the bump feel subtle but solid.  Not Gateron smooth, but very nice for what you would expect from a Cherry.

Gaterons are very nice, but I'm not the biggest fan of them.  Nicer than Outemus and very smooth, but NOT fun to type on at all.  Gateron Greens that I have in my Void ray teamwolf are almost TOO smooth...the clicks are nice, but the tactile bump is so light compared to PROPERLY MADE MX clicky switches that it feels more like a tactile clear than a MX clicky switch.  I cant speak for Gateron blues, but I find the MX Greens on my Shine 69 and the blues on my Shine 6/YOTM much more fun to type on...keys feel a lot more bouncy (more feedback due to more resistance at the click point and rebound bump)
The blues in my iKBC, on the other hand, are awful.

If you read these forums too much, you would think EVERY cherry MX switch has sand all over the sliders and molasses as lubricant.
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 March 2017, 16:17:59 by falkentyne »

Offline need

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 16:19:20 »
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.

Videos can't show "smoothness in action" and not everyone has a $1,000 camera that can even capture such details.
You know not everyone on this forum is filthy rich, right?


Chyro has done a good job in capturing the sound difference between vintage blacks and nixdorf switches though, does that mean he is filthy rich?  :eek:

This proves that videos can indeed show it, even with the low end equipment that he has.

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 06 March 2017, 17:37:43 »
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..

so.. no video can be made of this.
HaaTa built a device that can measure switches and produce force graphs. Scratchier switches have more jittery graphs, so it is definitely not just subjective.
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Offline Giorgio

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updated the first post

Offline cutterline

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 13 March 2017, 07:09:05 »
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..


It isn't, you can easily test scratchy slider. First you need 3 things, your fingernail, scratchy slider (e.g red/black cherry slider, not vintage black), and a reference smooth slider like clear slider (both cherry and gateron clear has same degree of smoothness) or blue switch, the clicky clear plastic part. Your fingernail has to be short. Why it must be short? I find shorter fingernail is more sensitive, maybe because it is closer to the nerve.

Then, to feel the scratchiness, just press you fingernail gently and "scratch" along the slider part where it touch the metal leaf. You'll find it easily on those cherry switches but not on reference switch.

I do agree you can't video this because there is no visible feedback except from your fingernail tip. Scratchiness is due to surface roughness in microscopic scale. Hence, the only way that the result can be observed by everybody is by doing surface metrology using profilometer, quantifying those roughness into numbers.

If you read these forums too much, you would think EVERY cherry MX switch has sand all over the sliders and molasses as lubricant.
Hahaha, at the very least from my experiments, their clear and those clicky part of blue/green are also smooth.

Offline Squaggles

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Well, I'm not too sure on how to measure the scratchiness of a switch, but I think we can all agree that cherry making their switches much smoother is a very good think. Makes getting a keyboard with cherry blacks such as a f660m seem much more appealing.
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Offline need

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Well, I'm not too sure on how to measure the scratchiness of a switch, but I think we can all agree that cherry making their switches much smoother is a very good think. Makes getting a keyboard with cherry blacks such as a f660m seem much more appealing.

not even sure if this claim is even true though.

Offline falkentyne

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The claim is quite true.
My Ducky YOTG has some of the smoothest MX Browns I've ever felt.  There is literally no difference between this and a Gateron brown except the more tactile bump, but with the smoothness, the bump is subtle and can be felt even when pushing the switch fast (you don't "feel" it but you can tell you're moving  past it), and does make the keyboard a joy to use, if a bit boring.  And there is absolutely no feel of any sort of "sand bump" thing that some people here have complained about in browns.  There could be accuracy statement (vs it being brand new) and "break-in" (smoothing) issues at work here, since the keyboard is basically a year and a half old now, but it wasn't used very often until recently.

The most recent batches of RGB MX Blues that Ducky has been receiving are also smoother and have a much more solid sounding click (sounds like a deeper click and more mechanical-like) than older RGB Blues like the ones iKBC was using late last year on their F series boards (I've compared them side by side...it's almost like the Ducky is using blues made with a different material).  I can't speak for any batches that were made in January or Feb 2017, but you get the point.

Offline zslane

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I have two Filcos and one Pok3r with MX silent reds, and the sliders don't strike me as any less scratchy than the MX reds in any of my other Filcos and Pok3rs. The Gateron reds in my Varmilos still seem less scratchy to me. But it is all so subjective, so I am reluctant to come down on either side of this debate.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 March 2017, 11:57:58 by zslane »

Offline chyros

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I'd feel much more comfortable about this if Cherry made a statement about it. You'd think that this would be the result of a retooling of some sort, and they'd be happy to spread the news of updated tooling or increased quality, but I haven't seen a thing. That way we can also try and pin down what caused this issue in the first place.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline zpcomstock17

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 13 March 2017, 23:03:14 »
scratchy is SUBJECTIVE..

so.. no video can be made of this.

I think not.
What I think is some care about scratchy switches more, some don't mind scratchy switches.
Scratchy switches is a thing, take a batch of MX Black modern switches. Press the switches over your ear, you can hear plastic of the slider against the housing, you will hear grinding that sounds something like sandpaper.

Offline klennkellon

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 13 March 2017, 23:40:01 »
Can you please record a video showing the smoothness in action? I'm really curious.

Videos can't show "smoothness in action" and not everyone has a $1,000 camera that can even capture such details.
You know not everyone on this forum is filthy rich, right?

And I'm not surprised about Cherry improving the quality of their switches.
The RGB MX Browns on my YOTG feel EXTREMELY smooth and the bump feel subtle but solid.  Not Gateron smooth, but very nice for what you would expect from a Cherry.

Gaterons are very nice, but I'm not the biggest fan of them.  Nicer than Outemus and very smooth, but NOT fun to type on at all.  Gateron Greens that I have in my Void ray teamwolf are almost TOO smooth...the clicks are nice, but the tactile bump is so light compared to PROPERLY MADE MX clicky switches that it feels more like a tactile clear than a MX clicky switch.  I cant speak for Gateron blues, but I find the MX Greens on my Shine 69 and the blues on my Shine 6/YOTM much more fun to type on...keys feel a lot more bouncy (more feedback due to more resistance at the click point and rebound bump)
The blues in my iKBC, on the other hand, are awful.

If you read these forums too much, you would think EVERY cherry MX switch has sand all over the sliders and molasses as lubricant.
Chyros did a sound comparison using his cheap microphone or webcam or something comparing a new MX Black to a vintage MX Black and the difference was clearly audible, the new MX Black had a much louder "sshhshhshhshhh" sound from the friction.

Offline Mattr567

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 13 March 2017, 23:44:30 »
Chyros did a sound comparison using his cheap microphone or webcam or something comparing a new MX Black to a vintage MX Black and the difference was clearly audible, the new MX Black had a much louder "sshhshhshhshhh" sound from the friction.

Yea this is what I was thinking as well. No video just close up sound. Should show some difference.
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Offline zpcomstock17

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I'd feel much more comfortable about this if Cherry made a statement about it. You'd think that this would be the result of a retooling of some sort, and they'd be happy to spread the news of updated tooling or increased quality, but I haven't seen a thing. That way we can also try and pin down what caused this issue in the first place.

Anybody please, get in contact with Cherry to confirm their toolings changed.
With new tooling, MX linear switches won't be a laughing stock anymore.
Gateron dominates the linear switch market right now. If there's someone custom board soldered with linear switches, you bet all your money they're gaterons.
I'm looking forward Cherry linears becoming a thing again.

Offline TalkingTree

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I understand the skepticism but Giorgio actually provided some evidence. Those stems are definitely different from each other and it might be totally possible that the newer are smoother.
My opensource projects: GH80-3000, Skipad, TOAD (KotM Sept '17), TOAD v2 (KotM April '18), XMMX.

Offline Jumie

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I second this.. I got the latest mx black from sennin32's gb, and compare it with my old mx black I got from other store. The latest mx black is way smoother than the other one..
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 March 2017, 08:11:41 by Jumie »

Offline chyros

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I understand the skepticism but Giorgio actually provided some evidence. Those stems are definitely different from each other and it might be totally possible that the newer are smoother.
I agree, which is why I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.
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Offline Squaggles

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Quote from: chryos
I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.

Let's hope that this indeed a new process. If it's just a single batch, that I'll be very sad, because I would love to get my hands on some of those blacks.
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Offline TalkingTree

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I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.
Logic wants that you don't make new tooling for just one batch.
My opensource projects: GH80-3000, Skipad, TOAD (KotM Sept '17), TOAD v2 (KotM April '18), XMMX.

Offline xondat

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I can back this up by saying that I tried someones numpad they bought in Taiwan a week before the most recent UK meetup. It had Cherry MX Reds in and it was the smoothest switch I've ever felt.

Offline chyros

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I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.
Logic wants that you don't make new tooling for just one batch.
Which is part of why I want to find out if it's actually because of new tooling :p . Or if this applies to all manufacturing plants!

Basically we have no idea of what has caused this change or or widespread it is, so I think that'd be a good thing to find out first xD . There's so many keyboard myths already in the community :p . I think this is a really interesting find though, basically I just want to know more about it. It'd be great if they did actually improve their process in some way because that'd be really cool.
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Offline HPE1000

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Can confirm. My year old pok3r mx black has new stems in it. Different shape, notch out of back of stem. Super smooth stem. Same stem shape as my mx silent red switches, different from older mx stems.

Offline TalkingTree

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I want to find out if it's just a single batch or that the whole process has been updated.
Logic wants that you don't make new tooling for just one batch.
Which is part of why I want to find out if it's actually because of new tooling :p . Or if this applies to all manufacturing plants!

Basically we have no idea of what has caused this change or or widespread it is, so I think that'd be a good thing to find out first xD . There's so many keyboard myths already in the community :p . I think this is a really interesting find though, basically I just want to know more about it. It'd be great if they did actually improve their process in some way because that'd be really cool.
What's your plan? Are you gonna ask at Cherry Corp directly?
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Offline justinmtype

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Not seeing the differences in pictures.  Can someone explain?

Offline falkentyne

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That's what I've been trying to tell you people.

My Ducky Shine 6 and my YOTM Ducky with Cherry MX RGB Blues are significantly smoother than the MX RGB Blues in my iKBC F108 ( have two of them; one had a broken cable so I use it for science).  Basically, not only does the switch feel smoother (the RGB blues are not as smooth as my MX Brown RGBs in my ducky Year of the Goat, which feel almost Gateron smooth).

I can't give a proper comparison with the YOTG because I never tested the smoothness when the keyboard was brand new (Only the shine 6 and YOTM).  The only thing I noticed about the brand new YOTG Was that the RGB MX Browns had a MUCH quieter bottoming out sound compared to the shine 4/3/G710+.  It basically felt similar to the way the G710+ felt with O rings installed, but with a different pitch on bottoming out.

I did just now press a basically unused key on my YOTG (keypad - ) and it was extremely smooth just now.

The MX Blues in the Shine 6 have a 'deeper' sounding click sound that sounds like the switch has some type of tighter mechanism and it just feels better.  It almost feels as if the metal clicker is made of a better material or something.  It honestly feels like a different switch in a way.  It's not the same type of difference when comparing a MX Green or MX Blue to a Gateron blue or green (The Gateron clicks feel MUCH harsher and the tactile bump feels less substantial) I can't speak for the stem as I don't have any switch top removers and I only have an iKBC switch unsoldered right now.  But I can definitely tell you the YOTG's MX browns feel better than the MX Browns on my Shine 4, shine 3 or Logitech G910+, although I could swear the G910+ felt the most "tactile" (I no longer have this keyboard), but the YOTG feels the best to type on.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 March 2017, 13:48:51 by falkentyne »

Offline robbles

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If we get official confirmation of the new stem design, it would be awesome if someone started a group buy of the switches. Lots of people would throw down.
How does one become so interested in a thing like keyboards? When you realize you use a keyboard more than any other tool in your life.

Offline Acerk

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 14 March 2017, 14:33:16 »
Where the heck did you find one in ANSI layout?
In the US, you can find G80-1800 in ANSI with black switches in a lot of online stores; BH Photo, Walmart and eBay to mention some. Am I missing something here?

Offline HPE1000

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If we get official confirmation of the new stem design, it would be awesome if someone started a group buy of the switches. Lots of people would throw down.
I mean, it IS official, idk why there should be any question of that. Simplest example would just be the picture of the cherry mx silent switch.



See that notch out of the back of the stem? This is one of the few design changes on the new stems.

Compare that to the back of old stems


Id personally get pics but I dont really want to desolder my pok3r right now.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 March 2017, 15:12:51 by HPE1000 »

Offline Giorgio

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new one on the left, old one on the right

162991-0

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Re: [new pictures] cherry linear switches have different stems, supersmooth!
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:01:09 »
Would love to hear Cherry's response also.

I don't want to buy a new board to get them, but I'd order some loose ones. Wonder if someone at MK.com can tell if they got the new ones in stock?
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Online pixelpusher

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:05:00 »
Where the heck did you find one in ANSI layout?
In the US, you can find G80-1800 in ANSI with black switches in a lot of online stores; BH Photo, Walmart and eBay to mention some. Am I missing something here?

Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the listings at B&H, Walmart, and Amazon are all ISO, not ANSI.

I did, however, find one on newegg.   :thumb:
:)

Offline Giorgio

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:13:32 »
Where the heck did you find one in ANSI layout?
In the US, you can find G80-1800 in ANSI with black switches in a lot of online stores; BH Photo, Walmart and eBay to mention some. Am I missing something here?

Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the listings at B&H, Walmart, and Amazon are all ISO, not ANSI.

I did, however, find one on newegg.   :thumb:

they're using the wrong picture

these are ansi:
light gray case
ean: 4025112064937

black case
ean: 4025112064975

* EN_G80-1800.pdf (122.8 kB - downloaded 267 times.)

Offline robbles

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Re: [new pictures] cherry linear switches have different stems, supersmooth!
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:14:46 »
Would love to hear Cherry's response also.

I don't want to buy a new board to get them, but I'd order some loose ones. Wonder if someone at MK.com can tell if they got the new ones in stock?

Same. I was considering a Gateron Black build but would prefer the real McCoy.
How does one become so interested in a thing like keyboards? When you realize you use a keyboard more than any other tool in your life.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: [new pictures] cherry linear switches have different stems, supersmooth!
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:18:23 »
Would love to hear Cherry's response also.

I don't want to buy a new board to get them, but I'd order some loose ones. Wonder if someone at MK.com can tell if they got the new ones in stock?

Same. I was considering a Gateron Black build but would prefer the real McCoy.

Cherry keyboards are quite cheap in Europe. For example this costs 67 https://www.amazon.it/Cherry-G80-1800-QWERTY-Inglese-Nero/dp/B001KRDOJ6/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1489533393&sr=8-10&keywords=g80-1800

If there was a way to check if the keyboard had the new switches, you could buy a keyboard and then desolder the switches, which by the way are pcb mounted.

Offline klennkellon

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About two months ago I bought around 60 MX Clears and they did not feel as scratchy as I expected, but the weird force curve and the saw-toothy tactility makes it hard to judge the smoothness tbh.


Offline Acerk

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Re: new cherry keyboards have supersmooth switches
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 15 March 2017, 15:07:43 »
Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the listings at B&H, Walmart, and Amazon are all ISO, not ANSI.

I did, however, find one on newegg.   :thumb:

Like Giorgi pointed out, they're using the stock pictures that Cherry makes available. Cherry will use the ISO model for stock pictures because they're a German company. Here in Europe we are used to having it the other way.

An easy way to find the layout you're looking for is to use the model number from the PDF datasheet
http://www.cherry.de/cid/compact_keyboards_G80-1800.htm?rdeLocationAttr=0&rdeLocaleAttr=en&switch=true

Offline Zhuni

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Re: [new pictures] cherry linear switches have different stems, supersmooth!
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 15 March 2017, 15:12:40 »
While I like MX silent I find them just as scratchy as reds. For that reason I still prefer Gateron reds.
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Offline Giorgio

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Re: [new pictures] cherry linear switches have different stems, supersmooth!
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 15 March 2017, 15:50:56 »
While I like MX silent I find them just as scratchy as reds. For that reason I still prefer Gateron reds.


Sorry for your problems.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 March 2017, 15:52:37 by Giorgio »