Author Topic: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?  (Read 2817 times)

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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 07:13:52 »
Long story short, I've fallen behind and am no longer on current terms, so I could use some help from those of you guys who deal with this stuff daily. I'm obviously aware that GF1060 is a 'slightly' dated generation, and I won't be surprised if the landscape changes radically to its disadvantage some time soon. I'm also aware that AMD's RX 580 is essentially repackaged 480 with better factory overclocks but also correspondingly greater challenge keeping manageable temperatures and noise levels on stock timings, although 480 was and still is a strong chip. And 8 GB probably has more future than 4 GB, plus 580 can do multi-GPU.

I'm inclined to pick up an MSI GamingX 1060 6GB from Amazon.co.uk for GBP 249.99 (actually preorder for 27 December) and just put this all behind me, because it's the best price for the best 1060, so how much more could one want. On the other hand, I'm kind of meh about this because I might equally as well have bought the same card a year ago for a very similar price instead of sticking with my 280X, so this would basically amount to admission that I wasted a year. :P But then it's always better to waste one year than to keep wasting another. :P

The reason why I'm not considering 1060 3GB or 480/580 4GB is that I want more memory for high-res thingies, basically maxing out 1080p and fooling around with resolution scaling.

The reason why I'm not considering 1050ti is because it lags behind 1060 quite massively judging by the tests, so it's no point. Similar sentiment about 470/570. Plus, I want the stronger card and nVidia --60 or AMD -80 seems to be my sweet spot.

The reason why I prefer MSI Gaming X is silence and temps — AFAIK this is the best cooler out there; please correct me if I'm wrong. Reliability is an added bonus — this card's been bought by millions of people and keeps getting great reviews.

The reason why I prefer nVidia over AMD, though with a heavy heart, is better drivers, less overheating, less noise, and presumably more stability because it requires less PSU juice (I have an old bronze-rated 600-something, on a relatively lean overall PC setup, but still) and obviously because it won't overheat so much. Otherwise I'd prefer AMD because of stronger architectures.

Alternatively, I could:

(1) in fact go with 480/580, but I really, really, really care about the noise, and I seem to never be able to get good airflow in the case, meaning hit and noise from AMD, plus my disappointment with their drivers (both failures and limitations imposed due to company policy) has peaked, so I'd rather leave them behind
(2) land a cheap 1060 3GB, as they really are cheap these days, but see above about 3 GB vs maxing out 1080p, so nope
(3) find a 280X for CF, but this sounds like an awful lot of drugery and basically necromancy at this point (raising undead miners and all :P), so really, nope; besides, AMD drivers for old cards… ugh
(4) wait until the Christmas and New Year season is over and until the market reacts to the mining crackdown in China, but you never know how that works out, might as well end up holding out for another year fruitlessly

Sounds like I should just go and buy that MSI 1060, nope?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 10:22:00 »
Assuming you are reasonably wealthy.

Get the 1080 for ~$500 , comes with destiny 2.


If you are p00r,   

Get the 1080 for ~$500 , comes with destiny 2.



Everything else will be lagging really far behind within the next 6 months.



There's no reason to wait 6 months to enjoy something you can afford Today.


The reason is, You don't live that many months, and your free time does not accumulate, you can only enjoy what you have time for every moment of every day....


 

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 11:31:31 »
All good points. What about 1070, though? Can see a good deal that's much closer to 1060 than 1080 prices. A little more for the ti.
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 December 2017, 11:42:42 by NewbieOneKenobi »
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Offline Signature

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 11:52:02 »
I would actually wait if you can :) The bitcoin is at unreasonable hights atm and will see a dip soon, and the price of bitcoin has made it more expensive to buy GPU:s since they are used for mining. I think that the prices of all GPU:s will go down soon.

About the GPU, what CPU do you have rn? Make sure that you have a new CPU so that wont bottleneck your new graphicscard. The 1080 is a very strong card but is very demanding of the processor also. Also what are you planning on doing with the card? If you just game casually a 1060 is the way to go!

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 11:53:49 »
I would actually wait if you can :) The bitcoin is at unreasonable hights atm and will see a dip soon, and the price of bitcoin has made it more expensive to buy GPU:s since they are used for mining. I think that the prices of all GPU:s will go down soon.

About the GPU, what CPU do you have rn? Make sure that you have a new CPU so that wont bottleneck your new graphicscard. The 1080 is a very strong card but is very demanding of the processor also. Also what are you planning on doing with the card? If you just game casually a 1060 is the way to go!

yea, all of those things are true..

But the problem is,   we don't know when..  Meanwhile, No one is getting any younger..


Let's say it goes down in 4 - 6 months..  that's 4 -6 months of potential freetime for gaming that will never be returned to you.

Can you buy those hours back with $100-200 ?? if not,  then the $500 is still worthwhile.

The limit for something you can potentially use everyday is time, seldom the cost of the item itself.

Offline HotRoderX

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 17:19:09 »
I agree with TP4 also I don't think bitcoin miner's really look at the higher end cards. The 1070 and bellow are more reasonable for there demands. I also agree the 1080 is the sweet spot for gaming right now. Until the next generation comes along pushing 4k resolutions to max settings. There no reason to really get anything more expensive then a 1080.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 18:10:24 »
I agree with TP4 also I don't think bitcoin miner's really look at the higher end cards. The 1070 and bellow are more reasonable for there demands. I also agree the 1080 is the sweet spot for gaming right now. Until the next generation comes along pushing 4k resolutions to max settings. There no reason to really get anything more expensive then a 1080.

4k is a long ways away.

the current top Titan V $3000, can only barely manage 60fps @ 4K for AAA titles.


We also don't have proper 120hz 4k monitors yet..


So this is going to be at least 5 years away before 4k gaming takes center stage..



Offline Leslieann

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 18:25:16 »
I'm inclined to pick up an MSI GamingX 1060 6GB from Amazon.co.uk for GBP 249.99 (actually preorder for 27 December) and just put this all behind me,

Sounds like your best bet.

I would actually wait if you can :) The bitcoin is at unreasonable hights atm and will see a dip soon
Miners do not cut back with prices and so long as it stays at or near 10k, it's not going to change any time soon.

Industry expectations are that GPU prices will not fall for another year.


I don't think bitcoin miner's really look at the higher end cards.
Yes, they do.
The glut of high end cards is what is keeping lower end cards artificially over priced as gamers are buying them because they cannot get the high end cards. Miners are buying them by the pallet.

The miners use high end cards because for them, it's cheaper to use one high end card than two lower end ones due to packaging. Space is a significant issue for miners.
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Offline HotRoderX

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 22 December 2017, 19:05:02 »
I'm inclined to pick up an MSI GamingX 1060 6GB from Amazon.co.uk for GBP 249.99 (actually preorder for 27 December) and just put this all behind me,

Sounds like your best bet.

I would actually wait if you can :) The bitcoin is at unreasonable hights atm and will see a dip soon
Miners do not cut back with prices and so long as it stays at or near 10k, it's not going to change any time soon.

Industry expectations are that GPU prices will not fall for another year.


I don't think bitcoin miner's really look at the higher end cards.
Yes, they do.
The glut of high end cards is what is keeping lower end cards artificially over priced as gamers are buying them because they cannot get the high end cards. Miners are buying them by the pallet.

The miners use high end cards because for them, it's cheaper to use one high end card than two lower end ones due to packaging. Space is a significant issue for miners.

I don't know thought cause the higher end cards have 2 major draw backs that lower end card's don't. Given if Major cards where a 2:1 ratio then perhaps they be more desirable but that is not the case. I read and seen several places that say the 1070/1080's are only marginally better performance wise then the 1050's and 1060's that are typically used.

The biggest draw back being power consumption. The lower end card's offer less power consumption. Which from what seen about mining is the biggest issue most miners face.
The Second Big Issue they must tackle is cooling. A 1080 requires a hefty amount more cooling while offering marginal upgrade to mining performance.

Given I am not someone that does mining I only have read about it cause I find it kinda interesting. I also like reading tech stories.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 24 December 2017, 22:45:34 »
Slight mistake in my last post.

Ram is not expected to drop for another year. I have not heard when GPU prices are expected to drop, however so long as bitcoin is over 10k, it won't end any time soon as it's simply too profitable.
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 26 December 2017, 19:28:14 »
I've just found a reputable online store that has 20% off on all PC equipment here, so it ends up being cheaper than any smart imports no matter what. It looks like this. I'll give you the prices in PLN, as what's important is where they sit relative to each other anyway:

1060 3GB~/ 480 4GB: ~800 for MSI Armor, 863 for MSI GamingX
480 8GB: ~927 for typical Asus/Gigabyte OC, ~1050 for GamingX
1060 6GB: ~ 960 for cheap, ~1000 for average coolers, ~1010 for Armor, ~1080 for Gaming, ~1110 for GamingX
1070 8GB: ~1400 for cheapest Palit (not JetStream, just plain Palit), ~1500 for MSI Armor / Gainward / Gigabyte WindForce (3 fans); MSI Gaming X sits at >1750
1080 GB: ~1960 cheapest

With my relatively poor airflow and high sensitivity to sound, I'm inclined to go with the MSI Gaming X below the 1070 range and prefer nVidia to ATI (bonus: no AMD drivers…). But in the 1070 range I'm obviously not going to invest 250 in the difference between Armor and GamingX, given how Armor is only marginally inferior. This is also party because I don't expect to go 480 CF on an old 650W OCZ bronze-rated PSU. Won't be upgrading the CPU (i5-6600) any time soon. The price point on the 8GB version of 480 looks attractive, but it's probably a better idea to go nVidia anyway. Can't really decide if I want to grab a 3GB 1060 for minimal investment (867 vs 1110 certainly doesn't reflect the difference in performance, not even in 1440p…) and call it quits, get the 6GB for more secure 1080p/1440 virtual, or 1070 for the extra fun (then again, 867 vs 1500 probably does not reflect the difference in performance) and multi-GPU capability at some point in the future (with a new PSU preferably). Probably won't have the guts to buy the 1080.

… But I gotta buy something, because this old 280X is artifacting on me (could be CPU or mobo chipset, of course, but VRM would be my safest guess).

And yeah, I could wait normally, but that's not really going to beat the 20% promo that's available right now, so I think I should be picking something right now.

For the record, I'm playing Mass Effect: Andromeda on this setup right now, and the 3GB is almost totally used up in 1080p with no virtual resolution, no high AA etc. Hence I'm quite reluctant to stick with 3GB for my next card.

So what would you folks suggest?
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Offline Brammm87

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 28 December 2017, 12:57:34 »
About the GPU, what CPU do you have rn? Make sure that you have a new CPU so that wont bottleneck your new graphicscard. The 1080 is a very strong card but is very demanding of the processor also. Also what are you planning on doing with the card? If you just game casually a 1060 is the way to go!

It's been proven multiple times already that CPU's don't really matter for current gen gaming. I can't be arsed at the moment, but I know LinusTechTips/JayzTwoCents/Bitwit/PaulsHardware did a video on it recently. If you're gaming on higher resolutions (1440p ultrawide/4K), the GPU will be the bottleneck. On 1080p and older/e-sports titles and older CPU will maybe be the difference between 100fps and 200fps or so, which doesn't make any difference unless you're playing on a 144Hz monitor, which I don't think OP is.

TL;DR: depending on the monitor OP will be using, CPU doesn't mean jack ****.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 28 December 2017, 13:40:49 »
About the GPU, what CPU do you have rn? Make sure that you have a new CPU so that wont bottleneck your new graphicscard. The 1080 is a very strong card but is very demanding of the processor also. Also what are you planning on doing with the card? If you just game casually a 1060 is the way to go!

It's been proven multiple times already that CPU's don't really matter for current gen gaming. I can't be arsed at the moment, but I know LinusTechTips/JayzTwoCents/Bitwit/PaulsHardware did a video on it recently. If you're gaming on higher resolutions (1440p ultrawide/4K), the GPU will be the bottleneck. On 1080p and older/e-sports titles and older CPU will maybe be the difference between 100fps and 200fps or so, which doesn't make any difference unless you're playing on a 144Hz monitor, which I don't think OP is.

TL;DR: depending on the monitor OP will be using, CPU doesn't mean jack ****.



That's not true.

Competitive Gaming, Cpu matters a great deal.

For example, my sandy bridge 2500k @ 5ghz can push only 280fps average on csgo.

my 7700k @ 4.8ghz can push 500-550fps average.

This is a HUGE difference for competitive gaming.



For Dota 2, while framerate is less important,  the same thing happens where the 7700k pulls ahead.


The Ryzen for example, is bad for competitive gaming, because at max overclock, it's only equivalent of a 4.1ghz sandybridge.

Offline Brammm87

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 28 December 2017, 15:17:36 »
About the GPU, what CPU do you have rn? Make sure that you have a new CPU so that wont bottleneck your new graphicscard. The 1080 is a very strong card but is very demanding of the processor also. Also what are you planning on doing with the card? If you just game casually a 1060 is the way to go!

It's been proven multiple times already that CPU's don't really matter for current gen gaming. I can't be arsed at the moment, but I know LinusTechTips/JayzTwoCents/Bitwit/PaulsHardware did a video on it recently. If you're gaming on higher resolutions (1440p ultrawide/4K), the GPU will be the bottleneck. On 1080p and older/e-sports titles and older CPU will maybe be the difference between 100fps and 200fps or so, which doesn't make any difference unless you're playing on a 144Hz monitor, which I don't think OP is.

TL;DR: depending on the monitor OP will be using, CPU doesn't mean jack ****.



That's not true.

Competitive Gaming, Cpu matters a great deal.

For example, my sandy bridge 2500k @ 5ghz can push only 280fps average on csgo.

my 7700k @ 4.8ghz can push 500-550fps average.

This is a HUGE difference for competitive gaming.



For Dota 2, while framerate is less important,  the same thing happens where the 7700k pulls ahead.


The Ryzen for example, is bad for competitive gaming, because at max overclock, it's only equivalent of a 4.1ghz sandybridge.

OP was asking about upgrading his GPU and stated that they're behind. I'm assuming that means they're not gaming on a competitive level. But you're right, I could've stated more explicitly that "depending on the monitor or unless you're gaming on a competitive level, CPU matters less".
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 30 December 2017, 08:02:43 »
Re: monitor, long story short, I don't think I'm ever going to be in the market for 144 Hz. No competitive multi, unless it's something like Starcraft 2, in which case I don't mind turning the settings down until I get rock-solid 60 fps, which isn't that hard. And which is the max my monitor can get. :)

I'm thinking about 1440p simply because I could handle it as a virtual resolution, but truth be told it doesn't always work out. For example strategies that use small fonts for captions aren't playable. Third-person perspectives from close behind can make characters, cars etc. too small. Some games are smart and keep the interface while scaling the rest, granted, but that too doesn't always work out. So I guess I shouldn't put too many eggs in this basket. Chances are 4K will hit the mainstream before I get around to buying an old-style physical 1440p monitor, which in any case won't be any time soon.

…But 1080p is pretty much a must. I don't literally need to max out on all ultra just for the sake of knowing that I can, but I'd like to more or less max out on settings that make a difference that you can see and still have 45-ish fps without falling much below 30 in pitched battles in mostly single-player RPGs. Most importantly texture quality, detail, filtering etc. For this my 280X / 3GB doesn't seem sufficient. Not a great fan of high AA settings because of how they blur the screen more than I like, but of course it sucks when DX9 titles slow down to like 20 fps when I do crank AA up. ;)

In any case, this 280X is quite possibly on its last legs. I could try replacing the tape, but I already had artifacts before reseating the heatsink without tape for mem sticks last week, only less than I have now. But because the problem increased, I'm at least pretty sure it's video memory and not CPU or mobo chipset (main RAM's good, CPU in fact also tests good), so all in all it looks like the card has permanent damage from intense use by me and the previous owner (might as well have been a miner for all I know). And I can't accord to have the card die on me, say, at night, during a very urgent project for work. :/ So I guess I need to be making the purchase right now, though I simply can't decide. 1080 and even 1070 normally falls outside my GPU budget, but the thought of skipping upgrades for several years and enjoying a beefy card in the meanwhile is certainly appealing, as well as the fact that it could actually serve my next monitor (solo or in SLI). Just finding it hard to justify the expense (or in fact find the cash), but I guess I'll have to get over it.

This said, there's allegedly going to be a 2080 release this Spring, which is kinda soon. So is this a good time to buy a 1080, considering? I don't care if it becomes like 10% cheaper while offering close to best performance, but I'll get sad if I card that costs 30% more on release suddenly performs 60% faster in existing titles (while being so much more future-proof) and soon falls 40% in price. Or if the card I buy suddenly costs 50% less next semester. :(
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Offline Brammm87

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Re: GFX card — is this a good time to upgrade?
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 30 December 2017, 12:37:06 »
JayzTwoCents just uploaded this today:

TL;DW: If you're wondering if it's a good time to upgrade or not, ask yourself this: "Does my PC do what I want it to do?". If the answer is no, upgrade your computer with whatever your budget allows. The one exception he mentions is summertime, because around computex, stuff usually gets released.

Another point he makes in the video is really relevant for me too (currently wondering if I should upgrade as well): if something is released shortly after you bought something, that doesn't diminish your thing. It's not suddenly gonna perform less or anything...
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