Author Topic: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60  (Read 19707 times)

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Offline senter

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[IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:39:49 »



Simply put, this is an IC for 60% version of Leaf 80.
This IC is not for checking interests because we will run it for sure.
The purpose of this IC is for collecting suggestions/opinions on the current design and future available options.

Some potential new features:

  • New plate mounting method. We've been using top mount for quite a long time. Now we're trying to figure out how to play with gaskets. Not sure if the current design can be called gasket mount or not. 
  • Anodizing: new regular colors, gradient anodizing, camo ano, hard ano
  • E-coating: new colors, non matte finish (the original e-white and e-black are all matte finish)
  • PVD brass case: It was a pain to deal with PVD because the quality is hard to control. Exclusive found a reliable factory that can do PVD in very high quality. It might be worth trying. Really appreciate his help.
  • PC case: Anyone interested in opaque PC cases? I'm not sure about the aesthetic aspect but the PC cases sound different from metal cases.





The current design is to attach 4 long strips of self-adhesive gaskets on both the top case and the bottom case.
The gaskets have screw holes on them. They will be compressed a little bit when the screws are tightened.
The front and rear sides of the plate will be sandwich mounted in the middle.



Update on 01/08:

Some changes have been made since the IC starts. There are also some details have been confirmed.

  • Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK
  • The USB port cutout will be in the middle
  • 4 types plates will be available: MX universal, MX WKL, MX HHKB, ALPS
  • Colors of aluminum parts: E-white, E-black, E-red, purple anodizing, yellow anodizing
  • Colors of PC versions: Matte clear, opaque black
  • Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
  • Pricing for aluminum/PC kits: $275 excluding Paypal fees or $290 with PayPal fees included.
  • Pricing for all brass PVD kits: $560 excluding PayPal fees.
  • Limits: 10 kits for all brass kits because PVD quality is difficult to control.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:17:48 by senter »

Offline ChrisSwires

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:44:40 »
Looks interesting for sure, I think this kind of sandwiched gasket has decent theory behind it for acoustic alteration, and the aesthetic is nice.

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Offline KeyboardUser4

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:47:47 »
Looks neat, thoughts on making a universal 60% pcb version with Left side USB?

Would it be able to be assembled without the rubber strips?
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Offline gnhuy91

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:48:43 »
Awesome, I'm in, don't quite like the opaque case though

Offline dallman5

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 10:53:16 »
Looks nice! I may be interested in a PC or e-coat version.

Is there any reason for a custom PCB over the current 60% standard? Also, do you have a projected price range yet?
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Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:02:48 »
The e-coat white looks great!

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Offline gabetjh

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:03:14 »
looking forward to this!!!


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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:03:53 »
If it's got that yellow from the tkl I might be in
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Offline Dovan1405

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:06:43 »
Is it a universal layout?


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Offline finalarcadia

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:08:26 »
Some options sound interesting, like full brass or PC cases. Would like a 1 layout plate option with no extra holes.

Offline Abec13

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:10:05 »
Relative price?

Offline laserbeamspewpew

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:10:22 »
In for a PC HHKB.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:52:06 by laserbeamspewpew »

Offline DJSwayde

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:11:39 »
Definitely interested in an HHKB one, the bezels look good.  :)

I think the case should support universal PCB. Seems most people prefer universal PCB.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:17:13 by DJSwayde »

Offline The_Boom_Boy

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:11:48 »
I like this but I think that It should support standard 60% pcbs

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:17:50 »
Is there an expected price?

Offline ChrisSwires

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:20:03 »
Additional +1 for universal unless there's a concrete reason for not?

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Offline t0ch

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:40:54 »
Count me in for the MAO White HHKB!

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Offline Dolas

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 11:41:27 »
The switch cutouts under the blockers on the polycarb version look kinda bad.  Otherwise looks good.

Offline azharkh

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 12:13:43 »
I've been waiting for a polycarbonate 60%!! hopefully I can afford this

I do agree that the switch cutouts under the blockers do look bad on the polycarb hhkb. I think it'd be best to offer an hhkb specific plate as well that doesn't have those cutouts as they're not needed.

and please for the love of god don't have iso/ansi plates. iso specific or ansi specific plates are a necessity
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:40:30 by azharkh »

Offline tiydal

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 12:54:29 »
Looks great, id be in for a WKL one in black/silver/grey.

Offline AlcoholEnthusiast

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:06:05 »
Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.

I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.


Offline ChrisSwires

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:10:38 »
Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.

I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
To throw in my opposing 2 cents. I'd rather universal than completely fixed regardless of layout unless there's sound relief cuts. Honestly I find an open bottom row and iso enter area sounds preferable than fixed, and any alignment issues are simply fixed with PCB mount switches.

Admittedly the sound is opinion. As always.

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Offline olivia

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:35:00 »
The design looks very great  :) I would be interested in PC case, PVD Rose, or Rose gold gradient ano!

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:38:19 »
Looks neat, thoughts on making a universal 60% pcb version with Left side USB?

Would it be able to be assembled without the rubber strips?

No, the plan is to make a USB C pcb that fits the case perfectly. I don't want to make a super large usb cutout and support universal 60% PCBs.

Are you asking if the case also supports top mount? No in that case

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:47:42 »
Looks nice! I may be interested in a PC or e-coat version.

Is there any reason for a custom PCB over the current 60% standard? Also, do you have a projected price range yet?

Not all the 60% PCBs have exactly the same position and dimensions on the USB port.  The USB slot on the case must be very large if we want to support regular 60% PCBs. Our PCB will use USB C port and I want the slot fits the port perfectly.


Is there an expected price?

Relative price?

The price for the anodizing aluminum kit should be lower than Leaf80. I haven't calculated the cost for customizing gaskets but it shouldn't too much.

Offline DJSwayde

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:51:53 »
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.

Offline tiydal

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:54:31 »
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.

Good point, I agree with this. +1

Offline ChrisSwires

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:56:42 »
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.
Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.

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Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:57:01 »
If it's got that yellow from the tkl I might be in

Puddsy, I can do any color for you at any time.
Not asking you to buy this one but you can keep it in mind.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:00:44 »
I've been waiting for a polycarbonate 60%!! hopefully I can afford this

I do agree that the switch cutouts under the blockers do look bad on the polycarb hhkb. I think it'd be best to offer an hhkb specific plate as well that doesn't have those cutouts as they're not needed.

and please for the love of god don't have iso/ansi plates. iso specific or ansi specific plates are a necessity

That's a good point. The current plate is just a placeholder. I know more and more people want specific plates for different layouts. I may remove the ISO support and provide multiple versions of plates.

Offline DJSwayde

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:03:09 »
Can you at least leave ISO as an option? I planned on making this my ISO board.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:09:33 »
The design looks very great  :) I would be interested in PC case, PVD Rose, or Rose gold gradient ano!

Hi Olivia, I started thinking seriously about gaskets after the last time you talked to me.
Hope the sound and feel will be as expected.

Offline trg1234

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:15:45 »
+1  to the rose gold option. Will the PCB be hotswappable if it's not universal

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:23:53 »
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.
Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.

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GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs. That's why I don't think using proprietary PCBs is a very abrupt decision.

The plan for the PCB is: QMK, USB C, MX/ALPS, split/non-split spacebar. It won't be hot-swappable tho if that's the feature you want from other PCBs.

Personally, my current taste really doesn't like the super large USB port cutout.

Change my mind if more people disagree with me. That's the main purpose of the IC.

Offline ChrisSwires

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:34:36 »
I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.
Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.

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GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs. That's why I don't think using proprietary PCBs is a very abrupt decision.

The plan for the PCB is: QMK, USB C, MX/ALPS, split/non-split spacebar. It won't be hot-swappable tho if that's the feature you want from other PCBs.

Personally, my current taste really doesn't like the super large USB port cutout.

Change my mind if more people disagree with me. That's the main purpose of the IC.
Layout choice and ease is my only case for universal PCB, it lowers the cost and the amount of hastle for the GB for you and allows the end user to decide what is and isn't important in a PCB for them (for example I actively prefer mini usb given the amount of them I already have and my lack of appetite for cable managing a second usb cable for swapping).

As I said earlier though. It wouldn't be a reason for me to not purchase, just a preference.

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Offline laserbeamspewpew

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:40:18 »
Would prefer a separate plate for HHKB, so you don't see the cutout for the corner switches when using the polycarb case.

Online xSovereign

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:40:39 »
Would you consider making a light blue color way?
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Online Puddsy

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:47:50 »
If it's got that yellow from the tkl I might be in

Puddsy, I can do any color for you at any time.
Not asking you to buy this one but you can keep it in mind.

Thanks man. I'll let you know.
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Offline otanishock

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 14:53:08 »
5th on universal pcb. Much more versatile, not to mention new iteration coming up every now and then with upgraded features. PCB most likely will brick at one point, sooner or later, and finding a replacement for a proprietary pcb is a nightmare.
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Offline trg1234

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:05:20 »
I would also prefer universal pcb for more customizability than a smaller usb cutout

Offline weaston

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:16:26 »
GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs.

We used our own pcb for the 00 for very specific fitment reasons.  Those reasons do not seem to apply in this case because of how the "gasketing" is being performed. 

Just for clarification.

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:22:58 »
Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.

Yeah I agree with this.

Offline dondongler

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:23:31 »
I also would appreciate universal pcb compatibility.

Online mudcakehoney

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:03:57 »
I love everything about this. When are you looking at running it?

Offline azharkh

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:08:55 »
I would really like universal PCB compatibility but I am also okay with a proprietary PCB.

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Offline meiosis

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:12:47 »
was blown away with my fox leaf 80 so in for this one even though I don't like 60%
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Offline dado brat

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:16:09 »
looks really good. i don't mind the proprietary pcb as long as i can have hhkb with split space bar. it would be really awesome if this turns out extra heavy, i'm talking like 2kg+

Online HotRoderX

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:24:30 »
This is interesting, while not a huge huge fan of 60% I would give this a look specially with the camo anodizing option.  Though would also equally admit anything north of 200 bucks would turn me off very quickly. I just don't think of 60% as very expensive due to market saturation. I mean they might not be as nice as these but still.

Offline Remsky

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:40:06 »
E6 had 19mm bottom row spacing and 00 had the gasket in between pcb and plate, so they needed custom pcbs. The mounting on this design doesnt interfere with standard 60% pcbs, so you could just accomodate for those instead.

Unless there is a hindrance to topside usb that could happen.

Just my 2cents.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 December 2018, 17:00:29 by Remsky »

Offline ptiede

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 17:15:21 »
Looks like I'm in the minority but Iay prefer the proprietary pcb, eapecially since it has the features I am after. Tight USB ports just look to much better. Like the M60a port is basically a work of art.