Author Topic: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60 (GB start)  (Read 28614 times)

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Offline mnpq.raven

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #250 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:52:50 »
  • Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
Does this also apply to the brass plates in the non-brass(PC and aluminum cases) versions ? And other than brass is there any other plate material ?
Also how's the slope ?
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:22:28 by mnpq.raven »

Offline azharkh

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #251 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:53:18 »
what are the plate materials?

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Offline oh_chesteroni

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #252 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:56:50 »
Shipping information?

Quote
Not Senter but I believe most of his designs are ran through ZFrontier (at least the Time TKL which I own as well as their recent Leaf 80) - I can't recall what exact method of shipping they use but the costs were actually included in the price for the Time, not sure how it was handled for the Leaf 80 but ZF's options tend to be very affordable (even internationally) when the tag is not inclusive of it.

Thanks for the info! I felt the need to ask because, like you, I think the aluminum and PC kit is priced very reasonably, and I'm hoping shipping doesn't tip the scales too much for me.

Online dondongler

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #253 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:27:05 »
Any pictures of the opaque black polycarb material available?

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Offline bengine

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #254 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:30:10 »
Any pictures of the opaque black polycarb material available?

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https://imgur.com/a/abfRyVH

Offline oh_chesteroni

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #255 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:31:28 »
Any pictures of the opaque black polycarb material available?

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https://imgur.com/a/abfRyVH
That's the black pc? I thought it was black ano.

Offline mikenogo

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #256 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:34:38 »
Clear polycarb looks really good. Probably the first polycarb case that caught my eye. But I am really eyeing all brass!

Offline ossetepo

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #257 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 21:42:18 »
Any pictures of the opaque black polycarb material available?

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https://imgur.com/a/abfRyVH
That's the black pc? I thought it was black ano.

You're not the only one, I assumed that was the black e-coat too.  That looks super, super good.

Offline fireworm

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #258 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 22:39:21 »

  • Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK

Does this mean the pcb will have just have mx / alps solder holes for all positions (e.g. The split space bar)?

In other words, it possible for me to just order a split space alps plate and use your pcb? (I don't see you mentioning the split space alps plate)

I understand if I'm just being too much of a snow flake. :)
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 January 2019, 22:48:55 by fireworm »

Offline Unforgivable

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #259 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 22:49:15 »
Show Image

Show Image


Simply put, this is an IC for 60% version of Leaf 80.
This IC is not for checking interests because we will run it for sure.
The purpose of this IC is for collecting suggestions/opinions on the current design and future available options.

Some potential new features:

  • New plate mounting method. We've been using top mount for quite a long time. Now we're trying to figure out how to play with gaskets. Not sure if the current design can be called gasket mount or not. 
  • Anodizing: new regular colors, gradient anodizing, camo ano, hard ano
  • E-coating: new colors, non matte finish (the original e-white and e-black are all matte finish)
  • PVD brass case: It was a pain to deal with PVD because the quality is hard to control. Exclusive found a reliable factory that can do PVD in very high quality. It might be worth trying. Really appreciate his help.
  • PC case: Anyone interested in opaque PC cases? I'm not sure about the aesthetic aspect but the PC cases sound different from metal cases.

Show Image


Show Image


The current design is to attach 4 long strips of self-adhesive gaskets on both the top case and the bottom case.
The gaskets have screw holes on them. They will be compressed a little bit when the screws are tightened.
The front and rear sides of the plate will be sandwich mounted in the middle.



Update on 01/08:

Some changes have been made since the IC starts. There are also some details have been confirmed.

  • Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK
  • The USB port cutout will be in the middle
  • 4 types plates will be available: MX universal, MX WKL, MX HHKB, ALPS
  • Colors of aluminum parts: E-white, E-black, E-red, purple anodizing, yellow anodizing
  • Colors of PC versions: Matte clear, opaque black
  • Colors of PVD brass versions: gold, silver, rose gold
  • Pricing for aluminum/PC kits: $275 excluding Paypal fees or $290 with PayPal fees included.
  • Pricing for all brass PVD kits: $560 excluding PayPal fees.
  • Limits: 10 kits for all brass kits because PVD quality is difficult to control.

Universal PCB please (Left USB port).

Skimming through the thread, it seems A LOT want this option for easy PCB replacements.

Online nasp

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #260 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 23:29:22 »
Yeah, I don't know why the USB can't be on the left. That way both proprietary and universal PCBs like the DZ60 would work.

What's the reason for putting it in the middle? Aesthetics?

Offline etong415

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #261 on: Tue, 08 January 2019, 23:37:41 »
Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.

I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
To throw in my opposing 2 cents. I'd rather universal than completely fixed regardless of layout unless there's sound relief cuts. Honestly I find an open bottom row and iso enter area sounds preferable than fixed, and any alignment issues are simply fixed with PCB mount switches.

Admittedly the sound is opinion. As always.

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How would you describe the differences in sound when comparing an open bottom row versus hhkb or WKL layout?


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Offline ChrisSwires

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #262 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 02:04:03 »
Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.

I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
To throw in my opposing 2 cents. I'd rather universal than completely fixed regardless of layout unless there's sound relief cuts. Honestly I find an open bottom row and iso enter area sounds preferable than fixed, and any alignment issues are simply fixed with PCB mount switches.

Admittedly the sound is opinion. As always.

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How would you describe the differences in sound when comparing an open bottom row versus hhkb or WKL layout?


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I can go one better:


There's caveats to that of course, the universal plate in this case has switch top opening, the fixed does not which will have an effect. The size and composition of the board will also have an effect.

It's not game changing by any means, and it's of course preference which you prefer but I'd say that fixed has a harsher higher pitched note, especially on larger keys, universal is more mellowed.

The difference can be mitigated either way by adding releif cuts under larger keys, particularly spacebar.

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Online dantambok

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #263 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 02:11:02 »

Quote
I can go one better:


There's caveats to that of course, the universal plate in this case has switch top opening, the fixed does not which will have an effect. The size and composition of the board will also have an effect.

It's not game changing by any means, and it's of course preference which you prefer but I'd say that fixed has a harsher higher pitched note, especially on larger keys, universal is more mellowed.

The difference can be mitigated either way by adding releif cuts under larger keys, particularly spacebar.

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Offline etong415

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #264 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 02:14:06 »
Would like to see different plate versions so there are no extra holes for specific layouts. Also like has been mentioned, would prefer universal PCB option unless there is a reason not to.

I'm definitely interested in all the color/finishing options. I've been interested in PC case for a while, depends on price though.
To throw in my opposing 2 cents. I'd rather universal than completely fixed regardless of layout unless there's sound relief cuts. Honestly I find an open bottom row and iso enter area sounds preferable than fixed, and any alignment issues are simply fixed with PCB mount switches.

Admittedly the sound is opinion. As always.

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How would you describe the differences in sound when comparing an open bottom row versus hhkb or WKL layout?


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I can go one better:


There's caveats to that of course, the universal plate in this case has switch top opening, the fixed does not which will have an effect. The size and composition of the board will also have an effect.

It's not game changing by any means, and it's of course preference which you prefer but I'd say that fixed has a harsher higher pitched note, especially on larger keys, universal is more mellowed.

The difference can be mitigated either way by adding releif cuts under larger keys, particularly spacebar.

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Very interesting, definitely something to note if you’re going after a specific sound profile!


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Offline ReadmeDotTxt

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #265 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 04:16:30 »
no one needs camo

Offline ptiede

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #266 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 07:05:03 »
Is there a sample of yellow aluminum?

Offline gabetjh

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #267 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 07:10:35 »
Is there a sample of yellow aluminum?
see leaf 80 on zf


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Offline ptiede

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #268 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 08:28:00 »
Is there a sample of yellow aluminum?
see leaf 80 on zf


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Thanks!

Offline ejewell89

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #269 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 08:41:45 »
i'm trying to understand the pvd brass stuff but can't wrap my head around it. can someone help explain?

is it just the components? like plate and weight? or another type of build entirely?
              

Offline trg1234

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #270 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 08:53:47 »
Yeah, I don't know why the USB can't be on the left. That way both proprietary and universal PCBs like the DZ60 would work.

What's the reason for putting it in the middle? Aesthetics?

I believe that people wanted either a very tight middle port with proprietary or a left side port universal with the proprietary having that extra clean look.

Offline hansichen

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #271 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 09:55:16 »
Good to hear that it uses a custom PCB, else I would be tempted to buy one cause it's such a pretty board  :))

Offline mnpq.raven

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #272 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 09:57:12 »
Good to hear that it uses a custom PCB, else I would be tempted to buy one cause it's such a pretty board  :))
Such a helpful comment devoid of sarcasm

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Offline Visionaire

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #273 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 10:55:06 »
For what its worth, I'd be in the camp that believes the left side port would be best... so that there's a possibility of using a universal PCB.
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Online Vigrith

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #274 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 11:17:28 »
Since we're back to the PCB discussion, which I believe won't be very productive since Senter appears to have made his mind, I like that a proprietary PCB is being used.

Offline Wongstongs

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #275 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 11:19:59 »
Center USB's look amazing, much better than left or right side ones.

Offline ArchDill

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #276 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 11:27:41 »
Not sure if this has been asnswered/asked but ETA on the GB?

Online dondongler

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #277 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 11:28:14 »
Not sure if this has been asnswered/asked but ETA on the GB?
Hopefully this month

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Offline dubious

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #278 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 12:44:14 »
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.

Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 January 2019, 12:59:36 by dubious »

Offline juaninamilli

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #279 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 13:53:48 »
Given how limited it is, I would say the whole board will be PVD. Look up the E6 to get an idea of a ful brass board.
i'm trying to understand the pvd brass stuff but can't wrap my head around it. can someone help explain?

is it just the components? like plate and weight? or another type of build entirely?

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #280 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:11:53 »
I can go one better:


There's caveats to that of course, the universal plate in this case has switch top opening, the fixed does not which will have an effect. The size and composition of the board will also have an effect.

It's not game changing by any means, and it's of course preference which you prefer but I'd say that fixed has a harsher higher pitched note, especially on larger keys, universal is more mellowed.

The difference can be mitigated either way by adding releif cuts under larger keys, particularly spacebar.

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Thanks for the video. It's very informative. The spacebars on two plates do sounds significantly different. I prefer the sound of the universal one.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #281 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:14:47 »
i'm trying to understand the pvd brass stuff but can't wrap my head around it. can someone help explain?

is it just the components? like plate and weight? or another type of build entirely?

Given how limited it is, I would say the whole board will be PVD. Look up the E6 to get an idea of a ful brass board.

Yes, whole board.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #282 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:16:42 »
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.

Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?

There will be a dedicated HHKB layout plate for the clear PC case so you won't see the additional switch cutouts on two corners.
The color of the PCB will be black if no one has better suggestions.

Offline trg1234

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #283 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:20:06 »
For the hot swappable option is only wkl and hkkb layout supported or is a full version also included.

Offline yicaoyimu

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #284 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:24:25 »
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.

Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?

There will be a dedicated HHKB layout plate for the clear PC case so you won't see the additional switch cutouts on two corners.
The color of the PCB will be black if no one has better suggestions.

Does the non-hhkb plate work with hhkb case though? I actually really like the idea of having subtle colored plate see through with clear PC case on the corners.
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Offline juaninamilli

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #285 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:34:28 »
What about a WKL plate? Or maybe just plate blockers so you don't need a different plate.
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.

Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?

There will be a dedicated HHKB layout plate for the clear PC case so you won't see the additional switch cutouts on two corners.
The color of the PCB will be black if no one has better suggestions.

Offline mog_genius88

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #286 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:48:36 »
Will PC cases be the same price as alu?

Offline yuppie

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #287 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 14:59:54 »
I'd like to see a 65% with the Canoe-style blocker.


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Online Vigrith

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #288 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 15:04:26 »
Will PC cases be the same price as alu?

As per the edit to the OP, yea.

Offline dubious

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #289 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 16:22:33 »
This looks dope, I would buy an additional PCB + Polycarb plate if they are offered.

Will the final HHKB version have the cutouts on the side, or will they be visible through the polycarb like in the prototype? What color will the PCB be?

There will be a dedicated HHKB layout plate for the clear PC case so you won't see the additional switch cutouts on two corners.
The color of the PCB will be black if no one has better suggestions.

nice, I think black is the best choice

Offline yicaoyimu

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #290 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 16:24:17 »
I'd like to see a 65% with the Canoe-style blocker.

+1 to this. I'm in for leaf 60 regardless but 65 will be perfect for me.
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Offline ian13

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #291 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 20:39:50 »
PC leaf60 and PC leaf65! Let's go! :)
When will the gb start?

Online Coolbeanz

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #292 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 21:55:45 »
I'd like to see a 65% with the Canoe-style blocker.

PC leaf60 and PC leaf65! Let's go! :)
When will the gb start?

Would love a 65% version of this too!

Offline juaninamilli

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #293 on: Wed, 09 January 2019, 23:29:46 »
No silver? If not, is the E white on the warmer or cooler side?

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #294 on: Thu, 10 January 2019, 00:20:19 »
No silver? If not, is the E white on the warmer or cooler side?

i believe it's a cool white
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Offline stolenweapon

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #295 on: Thu, 10 January 2019, 05:39:41 »
any plans on doing aluminum half plate for the 60 or 65?
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Offline blizzara01

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #296 on: Thu, 10 January 2019, 07:51:08 »
For the hot swappable option is only wkl and hkkb layout supported or is a full version also included.
Also asking this

Offline juaninamilli

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #297 on: Thu, 10 January 2019, 08:05:04 »
Will most likely have a 1.5-1-1.5-7-1.5-1-1.5 bottom row. This will allow the PCB to work with HHKB, WKL, and Tsangan.
For the hot swappable option is only wkl and hkkb layout supported or is a full version also included.
Also asking this

Online zap2oz

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #298 on: Thu, 10 January 2019, 21:34:24 »
I'm most likely in for the pc hhkb.
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Online slxdegrees

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Re: [IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #299 on: Thu, 10 January 2019, 21:34:41 »
Will there be an option to upgrade the brass weight or plate to a sandblasted finish?