ur thoughts on n00q_ular p0wr ?

[tp4tissue]

The tech works and the tech is here. PRISM is the commercial implementation of this original IFR tech developed by Argonne. This isn't the holy grail of energy production and there are still problems but there are still scientists interested in solving them. We need viable solutions to stem the tide of global warming. With a power source like this on Mars we could start terraforming the planet. Scientists needs more money and intellectual infrastructure. We could really do some cool stuff.

If we had Unlimited TIME to solve these technical challenges, PERHAPS.

I'm not against reactor development in general, HOWEVER as of 20 years ago, we've run out of time to avert major climate change disasters.

Fast reactor simply can't be done fast enough in the Carbon-Footprint we have LEFT available. approximately 8-12 years given current emission rates

Maybe it could be revisited, in the future, but to put it in perspective, Pretty much all of these fast reactors had some sort of partial meltdown.

We can barely keep the lid on using water,  Now they want molten-Sodium.  XD..

Remember, we've already had 5 big melts in 40 years.   We're overdue for another.


This is not the time.

[JP]

The tech works and the tech is here. PRISM is the commercial implementation of this original IFR tech developed by Argonne. This isn't the holy grail of energy production and there are still problems but there are still scientists interested in solving them. We need viable solutions to stem the tide of global warming. With a power source like this on Mars we could start terraforming the planet. Scientists needs more money and intellectual infrastructure. We could really do some cool stuff.

If we had Unlimited TIME to solve these technical challenges, PERHAPS.

I'm not against reactor development in general, HOWEVER as of 20 years ago, we've run out of time to avert major climate change disasters.

Fast reactor simply can't be done fast enough in the Carbon-Footprint we have LEFT available. approximately 8-12 years given current emission rates

Maybe it could be revisited, in the future, but to put it in perspective, Pretty much all of these fast reactors had some sort of partial meltdown.

We can barely keep the lid on using water,  Now they want molten-Sodium.  XD..

Remember, we've already had 5 big melts in 40 years.   We're overdue for another.


This is not the time.

Well you might be right on the climate change part. As far as meltdowns it's been the existing light water reactors and not experimental IFR's.

[Leslieann]

Unfortunately once the sun drops the nuclear plants have to ramp up to meet the demand so nuclear helps provide a solid base level of power. If every home had solar panels and battery storage this would make nuclear power less attractive with current tech.

Not entirely true.
You're thinking traditional solar power, which is not the only option for solar. There are some that use simple mirrors to aim the sun at a tower which melts salt, the melted salt is used to create steam running a turbine. However it's not direct. The melted salt can be stored and it remains hot enough to keep generating steam for 10 hours after sundown.

Other things that help
Water "batteries", where they use a small, dedicated hydro electric dam to generate power at high draw then at low power they pump the water back up to the battery/reservoir.


Mostly though, it's not like we HAVE to use a reactor to supplement this, we have other ways to generate power. Pretty much all of which carry less risk in the case of a major problem.

[noisyturtle]

What we need is hydroelectric everywhere. Just carve out huge underground rivers across the country, giant tunnels filled with rushing water and turbines stretching huge lengths underground. Make the tunnels circular or sloped so the water always runs and turbines stay powered. Problem solved, all it takes is untold amounts of financial infrastructure and massive planning. Simple. I'd have it done inside of 40 years, but the effects would mean sustainable non-invasive clean power as long as there's tonnes of water to power it.

[JP]

What we need is hydroelectric everywhere. Just carve out huge underground rivers across the country, giant tunnels filled with rushing water and turbines stretching huge lengths underground. Make the tunnels circular or sloped so the water always runs and turbines stay powered. Problem solved, all it takes is untold amounts of financial infrastructure and massive planning. Simple. I'd have it done inside of 40 years, but the effects would mean sustainable non-invasive clean power as long as there's tonnes of water to power it.

Yes but what about the mole people? 

[tp4tissue]

WIND  p0wr  is the way to go.

You can build Wind mills SO damn FAST, and it is SO SIMPLE mechanically to maintain. 

And long term, less waste processing than even Solar, because PV panels are actually quite toxic to reprocess, 10000x easier than n00q_ular waste, but still burdensome if we're talking millions of panels.

The only downside of windmills is land use and noise, but 'Murica has no shortage of this..

[kurplop]

What about the resulting dead bats and raptors?

[Leslieann]

While you think of the propeller style (which are the ones known for killing birds), there are several other styles available.
Newer propeller styles are larger and slower spinning, which addresses a lot of the issues older ones had, they are also being more careful about where they place them. Other types can not only be as efficient, but also quieter and less annoying to people around them, they just don't scale as well in size. That may seem like an issue until you consider that they are easier to put in congested areas. Look around your city, there's a good chance there's a few factories with them. Look up vertical axis wind generators to see some, some look like a bird blender, but others are very bird friendly. Even the scary looking ones tend to spin slow so it's not as bad as they look.

The whole "think of the animals!" argument is bs anyhow, how many birds/animals have died as a result of other forms of power generation? Unless you have numbers (and we don't) it's unfair to say one is worse than the others. The only difference here is that death is instant as opposed to delayed so it's easy for those opposed to it (usually because they are profiting from other forms) to come up with evidence.

[tp4tissue]

What about the resulting dead bats and raptors?

It's that or ded Everything.. !!

[Sintpinty]

Thanks for sharing that vid TP. I found it interesting.

(Attachment Link)

Wee WOo Wee Woo

[JP]

Wind power is booming but not everywhere has the same wind resources or incentives. One problem with wind might be a reliance on rare earth minerals. If China shuts the tap on exports it would raise the cost. Maybe not a huge issue since there are other sources and other cheaper minerals that could be used. It's always good to have a broad portfolio of energy sources just in case. Rare earth minerals aren't exactly rare but the problem is what to do with the waste products from mining which often contain thorium. Right now it's a regulatory issue of what to do with that stuff so China pretty much runs the heavy metal show \m/

Funny enough the waste thorium could possibly power the world through liquid salt cooled thorium fueled reactors if they ever get the tech right and thorium doesn't produce gamma rays like uranium while the alpha particles emitted by thorium can be stopped by a thin sheet of paper. Probably a pipe dream but if we master thorium we would have lots of clean power and plenty of neodymium for electric car batteries. Also with abundant electricity from clean sources we could produce hydrogen fuel through electrolysis without having to worry about producing more greenhouse gasses in the process.

[tp4tissue]

No, thorium reactors is breeder type reactor, all such attempts have failed to prove economical.

Overall, the hardest part is not the part about making things HOT and Boiling water.

The Hardest part is , WTH do we do with the waste..  There is NO proven technology for storage.

And If we Build final storage like Onkalo, you know, Finnish people who actually behave RESPONSIBLY..  The sheer cost would erase all the productivity from using n00q reactors in the first place.

[fanpeople]

Yeah everywhere i move seems to have windfarms. I drive past one to  work. Those props are slow as ****.

[JP]

No, thorium reactors is breeder type reactor, all such attempts have failed to prove economical.

Overall, the hardest part is not the part about making things HOT and Boiling water.

The Hardest part is , WTH do we do with the waste..  There is NO proven technology for storage.

And If we Build it like Onkalo, you know, Finnish people who are RESPONSIBLE..  It would erase all the productivity from using n00q reactors in the first place.

A dutch firm built a test reactor of this kind. The tech promises to be meltdown-proof as the reaction isn't self sustaining and less overall waste being produced.
https://www.technologyreview.com/f/608712/a-thorium-salt-reactor-has-fired-up-for-the-first-time-in-four-decades/

China is really pursuing this tech and will probably be the ones to do it.
http://www.thoriumenergyworld.com/press-release/china-invests-big-in-clean-and-cheap-energy-from-thorium

[JP]

Yeah everywhere i move seems to have windfarms. I drive past one to  work. Those props are slow as ****.

I drove through Iowa once and they were everywhere it seemed. Quite mesmerizing initially. Also one time I drove next to a turbine blade being transported on the highway as long as I could as it was completely shielding my face from the sun.

[fanpeople]

Yeah everywhere i move seems to have windfarms. I drive past one to  work. Those props are slow as ****.

I drove through Iowa once and they were everywhere it seemed. Quite mesmerizing initially. Also one time I drove next to a turbine blade being transported on the highway as long as I could as it was completely shielding my face from the sun.

They are kinda relaxing to watch arnt they.

[Leslieann]

Finnish people who actually behave RESPONSIBLY..  The sheer cost would erase all the productivity from using n00q reactors in the first place.

People thought that about Japan as well.
Reactors last 50+ years  and you have no idea what will happen in that, at the very least outsiders could buy it.

[noisyturtle]

Is cold fusion real? Isn't that one of those things that modern science has proven, or is it still sci fi?

[JP]

Is cold fusion real? Isn't that one of those things that modern science has proven, or is it still sci fi?

Pretty much sci fi for now.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-current-scien/

[invariance]

Is cold fusion real? Isn't that one of those things that modern science has proven, or is it still sci fi?

For the small number of people who claim to have produced cold fusion, there are 10 times that many (well, lots) who have been UNABLE to reproduce the results.
A theory is only as good as the reproducibility of its experiments.
Science in action here.

[tp4tissue]

People thought that about Japan as well.
Reactors last 50+ years  and you have no idea what will happen in that, at the very least outsiders could buy it.

Bottom line, it's too hard to clean..  Japan may well collapse from the weight of this disaster..

Current low birth rate just due to the social - dynamics of their situation.

NOW<>,  ontop of that, add,

-Radiation,
-Immunodeficiency,  (radiation is an immuno-suppressant)
-Massive rise in cancer rates across HALF of Jpn <the mental toll that such wide spread illness impart on individuals and families>
-Increase in birth defects
-Chernobyl Heart in children
-Highly Toxic Marine life, 
-Disturbance in rural landscapes
-OPEN-Air radioactive waste WITH NO WHERE TO GO.

When Naoto Kan (former prime minister) said the Sovereignty of Jpn is at stake. He was not talking about politics here,  He really meant, the nation and its inhabitants may keel over and die.

It's even possible that Dystopian movie tropes may actually occur.

And What's worse,  if you look at all of China's N00qs,  they're right there facing the clean side of Jpn,  Christ.. hahahaha.

[JP]

Finnish people who actually behave RESPONSIBLY..  The sheer cost would erase all the productivity from using n00q reactors in the first place.

People thought that about Japan as well.
Reactors last 50+ years  and you have no idea what will happen in that, at the very least outsiders could buy it.

Bottom line, it's too hard to clean..  Japan may well collapse from the weight of this disaster..

They have low birth rate just due to the social - dynamic of their situation.

NOW<>,  ontop of that, add,

Radiation,
Immunodeficiency,
Massive rise in cancer rate across HALF of Jpn
Increase in birth defects
Chernobyl Heart
Highly Toxic Marine life, 
Disturbance in rural landscapes
OPEN-Air radioactive waste WITH NO WHERE TO GO.

When Naoto Kan (former prime minister) said the Sovereignty of Jpn is at stake. He was not talking about politics here,  He really meant, the nation and its inhabitants may keel over and die.

It's even possible that Dystopian movie tropes may actually occur.

And What's worse,  if you look at all of China's N00qs,  they're right there facing the clean side of Jpn,  Christ.. hahahaha. 

That's really awful. Japan also apparently has the worlds largest nuclear power plant: https://www.power-technology.com/projects/kashiwazaki/

[Edit] This plant was closed after Fukushima but they are still fighting to this day to restart this.
https://www.dw.com/en/japans-tepco-fights-for-return-to-nuclear-power-after-fukushima/a-47836968

[tp4tissue]

That's really awful. Japan also apparently has the worlds largest nuclear power plant:

It's simply an incomplete technology , then with climate change as well, we don't have the carbon budget to get it all working.

And it's important to remember, n00q_ular is NOT a low carbon power source, the industry brochures exclude Mining and Disposal. The total carbon footprint is only 7% better than COAL Fire.

[tp4tissue]

[Edit] This plant was closed after Fukushima but they are still fighting to this day to restart this.
https://www.dw.com/en/japans-tepco-fights-for-return-to-nuclear-power-after-fukushima/a-47836968

The reason they're fighting to turn these back on, is because while the plants are shut down, all staff are still on the payroll.  Tepco is currently essentially bankrupt. The company is held afloat through loans (from the bank).  The average power plant has a staff of 700-1000 people, with an average salary of 100,000 a head, that's 70-100 MILLION $ for Every year the plant is in shutdown PER powerplant, NOT producing power.

So with the shut downs, they're down $2.2 Billion a year for oh, tsk, 7-8 years.. well.. You get the picture.

It's a dangerous gamble to turn them back on, Jpn is simply too unstable a terrain for n00q_ular energy.

The 2 things they're known for , Earthquakes and Tsunami. I mean, of all places to use atomic energy. This is not the place.

[EMC Labs]

It's a good idea, but.

[Leslieann]

The reason they're fighting to turn these back on, is because while the plants are shut down, all staff are still on the payroll.  Tepco is currently essentially bankrupt. The company is held afloat through loans (from the bank).  The average power plant has a staff of 700-1000 people, with an average salary of 100,000 a head, that's 70-100 MILLION $ for Every year the plant is in shutdown PER powerplant, NOT producing power.

Actually they recent bragged they made a profit last year.

[tp4tissue]

Actually they recent bragged they made a profit last year.

Right now, In Fukushima Highskoo..  On the ground they've detected 27,000 to 30,000 Becquerels of radioactivity per kilogram of soil.

BEFORE the Disaster, if Soil contained > 100 Becquerels,  it had to be bagged and stored in a special facility. Now Jpn is allowing 8000 Becquerels/ kilo.

USA laws still maintains 100Becquerels/Kilo

Right up in Tokyo, Just normal building front lawn, they've detected 4000-5000 Becquerels/kilogram.

While I doubt Tepco is turning a real profit, (fake news),  if they were, they're doing so by NOT cleaning up like they promised to do.



--Understanding Becquerels--

1 Becquerel is 1 decay / second.

8000 Becquerels/ kilo is 8000 decay per second, per Kilogram of soil.

Imagine having 8000 drops of rain falling on you PER second,  Now instead of Rain, it's Radiation.

[Leslieann]

While I doubt Tepco is turning a real profit, (fake news),  if they were, they're doing so by NOT cleaning up like they promised to do.

Bailouts, side deals and compromises.

You didn't honestly expect them to pay for ALL of the cleanup did you?

[tp4tissue]

While I doubt Tepco is turning a real profit, (fake news),  if they were, they're doing so by NOT cleaning up like they promised to do.

Bailouts, side deals and compromises.

You didn't honestly expect them to pay for ALL of the cleanup did you?

It's upsetting, Tp4 used to buy dat Weeaboo rice . but now.. only thailand..

I'd rather deal with illegal fertilizer than radiation ..   Hrrm.. but I guess i haven't considered illegal fertilizers which are also radioactive..

Damnn... !!

[JP]

While I doubt Tepco is turning a real profit, (fake news),  if they were, they're doing so by NOT cleaning up like they promised to do.

Bailouts, side deals and compromises.

You didn't honestly expect them to pay for ALL of the cleanup did you?

It's upsetting, Tp4 used to buy dat Weeaboo rice . but now.. only thailand..

I'd rather deal with illegal fertilizer than radiation ..   Hrrm.. but I guess i haven't considered illegal fertilizers which are also radioactive..

Damnn... !!

Buy that Geiger counter. It might good to have. Trust nothing and test everything. Actually buy two Geiger counters so you can make sure the first one isn't contaminated.

[tp4tissue]

Buy that Geiger counter. It might good to have. Trust nothing and test everything. Actually buy two Geiger counters so you can make sure the first one isn't contaminated.

That's actually precisely how the PROs do it.  they have multiple meters to be sure.

But, Geiger counters will not detect the h0t Particles.

[tp4tissue]

The m0ar learnz bout n00q_ular p0wr,  the more  endearing is the term  "Containment"..



Thoughts ?  anyone find this word --alluring-- ??  Haz Tp4 finally achieves insane ??

[Leslieann]

Yay...

Nuclear industry push for reduced oversight gaining traction
Fewer mock commando raids to test nuclear power plants’ defenses against terrorist attacks. Fewer, smaller government inspections for plant safety issues. Less notice to the public and to state governors when problems arise.

https://apnews.com/2b7ebdbcec4b4b6788a7cf0468b1c054

[JP]

Yay...

Nuclear industry push for reduced oversight gaining traction
Fewer mock commando raids to test nuclear power plants’ defenses against terrorist attacks. Fewer, smaller government inspections for plant safety issues. Less notice to the public and to state governors when problems arise.

https://apnews.com/2b7ebdbcec4b4b6788a7cf0468b1c054

  What a bunch of bastards.

[SBJ]

Yay...

Nuclear industry push for reduced oversight gaining traction
Fewer mock commando raids to test nuclear power plants’ defenses against terrorist attacks. Fewer, smaller government inspections for plant safety issues. Less notice to the public and to state governors when problems arise.

https://apnews.com/2b7ebdbcec4b4b6788a7cf0468b1c054

Well that's just terrible.

[tp4tissue]

Have recently come across material which indicate n00q_ular detractors are commonly and relentlessly targeted/harassed by 3 letter agencies.

This thread will be locked to protect the general well-being of GH members.

Appreciate everyone's participation. One can not reason with the military industrial complex, in fact that is by LAW.

The main takeaway is that these are very bad people at the top, they can kill you for any reason, even for complaining too much about something like cleanup of waste that they left behind.

The finance of the situation works as follows. Price-Anderson Act, the Public pays for the plant, the insurance, and cleanup fund, the Corporation makes the profit, once the plant is exhausted, they ditch as much responsibility as they can again on the public. They make the money, we take all the risk.