Is there a cheap way to be introduced to Topre ?

[el_murdoque]

I learned about Topre switches a while back, but I've never really been interested until recently, where I started a journey through whatever thing sparks my curiosity next.
Well, I've tried a few and now Topre has made it top of my list. I'd favor the way I've been going with the other switches - by buying a second hand keyboard, trying it for a while and then selling it again (or keep it because it blows me away - in which case I'd sell whatever decorates my desk at that time).
So I was wondering if there is such a thing as budget models or affordable versions of  Topre boards that I could look out for.
I'd prefer a 100% keyboard in ISO-DE, but could live with smaller versions, as long as they have the big ISO Enter key.

[shadowku]

Editing everything I said.

For full ISO support, you only have the RF R1, which is not exactly cheap. If you just want the big Enter key, then you could go for the Japanese layouts of the HHKB Pro 2 or the new versions but the layouts are quite different if you think you can adjust. Again, not cheap.

There are cheaper Topre clones like Plum but they don't do ISO. Unfortunately, people have been asking for ISO support for a while but I don't expect it to ever happen.

[Findecanor]

Unless you could get a used Novatouch (2014-2016). They were made in ISO, including ISO-DE.
The keycaps are bad but they take keycaps for Cherry MX.

[Riverman]

You can also keep an eye out for a Topre Type Heaven on eBay.  Since they were discontinued, some people seem to think they're becoming valuable, but if they come up for auction, they go for somewhere around $100.  They have ABS keycaps, which makes them sound a little different than a Realforce, and uniform 45g weighting, but I've owned a few Type Heavens and a few Realforces, and they're very similar.

[el_murdoque]

Unless you could get a used Novatouch (2014-2016). They were made in ISO, including ISO-DE.
The keycaps are bad but they take keycaps for Cherry MX.

Damn, one of these just sold on ebay. I was not sure about the switches, though - nowhere on their website they use the name Topre and I thought they might have used some copy.

[shadowku]

I totally forgot about the Novatouch. Yes, they came in ISO. The problem is that they're nowhere near cheap because people like to harvest them for the MX compatible sliders. I have a Novatouch but I think it's the worst Topre board of all. It feels like trash so I never use it. It's a collaboration between PFU and Cooler Master. The name "Topre" was never formally used in the marketing or the packaging but if you open it, you'll see "Topre" on the PCB.

Also, Type Heaven doesn't seem to come in ISO.

[the_marsbar]

I have a Novatouch but I think it's the worst Topre board of all. It feels like trash so I never use it.

I thought the same initially. Then I silenced (Hyperspheres rings) it and it became awesome. Recently installed BKE Redux domes at well (lights), and I really like it.

[shadowku]

I thought the same initially. Then I silenced (Hyperspheres rings) it and it became awesome. Recently installed BKE Redux domes at well (lights), and I really like it.

Yeah, I figured that if I mod it, it would improve but I Just don't want to put anymore money in it since I don't even like TKL. I'm just holding onto it because it's appreciating LOL.
=D it's my retirement.

[the_marsbar]

It’s a waste not using it. In my opinion.

Silencing it brings it on another level. Just check out the YouTube videos of silenced Novatouches.

[rxc92]

Unfortunately, none of the official Topre boards are cheap, and in terms of quality you get what you pay for. The Type Heaven feels noticeably different than Realforce, and while Leopold is good, it’s no cheaper. Especially since you need ISO, your only option is forking out for a full size R1. Topre decided to double down on the Asian/American market with R2 so don’t bother waiting for an ISO version.

[Sintpinty]

They've released a mouse with realforce switches so I suppose you could try that *shrug*

[tp4tissue]

TOPRE is almost identical in feel to regular Rubber-Dome keyboards.

The difference is the smoothness of the key travel and the buckling force curve of the Topre-dome.

EXPECT the familiar feel you've always had with Rubber-Dome boards.


Beware of Weeaboo hype.

[rxc92]

Tp is just mad he doesn't have a μtron  
Jk, but yeah actually having a smooth travel and a nice big dome instead of a tiny little rubber nipple makes Topre feel miles better.

[Polymer]

Smoother, more stable slider...very solid bottom out.  Responsive actuation...reliability....You don't have chatter issues...In fact, I've rarely seen anyone have any Topre problems unless they've messed around w/ the insides...

Really good normal rubber domes can do some of what I mentioned above...but just not as well....

So that, combined w/ the PBT keycaps...makes it a pretty good deal....

[shadowku]

It’s a waste not using it. In my opinion.

Silencing it brings it on another level. Just check out the YouTube videos of silenced Novatouches.

I'm definitely wasting it. I've been thinking of selling it but I'm been quite lazy about it.

[gnho]

You can always try to score an older HHKB. A new generation just released so many people may be selling their old ones for upgrade. You should be able to score one around $150 if it's stock.

[rxc92]

You can always try to score an older HHKB. A new generation just released so many people may be selling their old ones for upgrade. You should be able to score one around $150 if it's stock.

 
 
That's doubtful. The new generation comes with minimal improvements, nothing that would change for a daily user. You can pair up a few more devices and alter the layout on internal memory for a big price hike. No usability improvements, design improvements, or anything that couldn't be accomplished with a hasu controller.

[absyrd]

Before this became a keyset GB forum only, people would send each other spare boards to test out. You may be able to find someone to loan you an extra topre board from their closet. Perhaps send them a couple bucks as a rental fee.

[gnho]

Before this became a keyset GB forum only, people would send each other spare boards to test out. You may be able to find someone to loan you an extra topre board from their closet. Perhaps send them a couple bucks as a rental fee.

I think rental is such a great idea... I am willing to loan out a topre type heaven with some cash collateral.

[the_marsbar]

 
That's doubtful. The new generation comes with minimal improvements, nothing that would change for a daily user. You can pair up a few more devices and alter the layout on internal memory for a big price hike. No usability improvements, design improvements, or anything that couldn't be accomplished with a hasu controller.

Have you used both the old and new HHKBs? Because your statement leads me to doubt that.

[rxc92]

 
That's doubtful. The new generation comes with minimal improvements, nothing that would change for a daily user. You can pair up a few more devices and alter the layout on internal memory for a big price hike. No usability improvements, design improvements, or anything that couldn't be accomplished with a hasu controller.

Have you used both the old and new HHKBs? Because your statement leads me to doubt that.

 
 
Not sure what you're trying to say. The new features are plainly listed on Fujitsu's website, and I've owned a Pro 2 Type S for a couple of years, is that not long enough? 
Why don't you try saying what you mean instead of being passive aggressive.

[the_marsbar]

Compared to the previous version, the new ones feels much more solid. Spacebar is a lot quieter as well. Combined with USB-C and programmability (check Hasu’s thread). BT functionality has improved as well (uses less power, the battery compartment is smaller and now completely removable).

So I’d say it has improved significantly.

[rxc92]

Compared to the previous version, the new ones feels much more solid. Spacebar is a lot quieter as well. Combined with USB-C and programmability (check Hasu’s thread). BT functionality has improved as well (uses less power, the battery compartment is smaller and now completely removable).

So I’d say it has improved significantly.

So it's heavier? There were no mentioned changes in design to the case, so either they decided to make it more solid without marketing or you're simply misattributing the very different feeling of a new Topre keyboard compared to an old one to 'feeling more solid'. 
In fact, I was under the impression that people bought HHKBs specifically because they feel light and not solid. People wanting solid Topre boards just buy Realforces.

[the_marsbar]

So it's heavier? There were no mentioned changes in design to the case, so either they decided to make it more solid without marketing or you're simply misattributing the very different feeling of a new Topre keyboard compared to an old one to 'feeling more solid'. 
In fact, I was under the impression that people bought HHKBs specifically because they feel light and not solid. People wanting solid Topre boards just buy Realforces.

I think the weight is similar (disregarding the HYBRID, which is the one I have), but the case (design and) material is different. To me solid does not necessarily equal heavy.

The case differences have been noted many times if you look around.

I don’t believe I’m misattributing anything. Besides the HYBRID Type-S I have a Pro 2 Type-S from 2016 which I used extensively, along with another Pro 2, a silent Realforce 104, and a Novatouch. The HYBRID feels more solidly built compared to the other HHKBs.

[tex_live_utility]

TOPRE is almost identical in feel to regular Rubber-Dome keyboards.

The difference is the smoothness of the key travel and the buckling force curve of the Topre-dome.

EXPECT the familiar feel you've always had with Rubber-Dome boards.


Beware of Weeaboo hype.

I really cannot agree. Even compared to the much-cheaper Niz keyboards, Topre feels quite different.

[Sintpinty]

Tp is just mad he doesn't have a μtron  
Jk, but yeah actually having a smooth travel and a nice big dome instead of a tiny little rubber nipple makes Topre feel miles better.

im mad in the fact that i don't have another board.but will get one with my own money hopefully

[Ptolemy]

Probably a second-hand Topre Type Heaven, although the quality is lacking compared to a Realforce or HHKB. Maybe a Realforce R2? Topre is not the cheapest switch to get into. You could get Topre fakes (ie. Plum) but their quality is un-assured. I would honestly save if you can and just buy a good board.

[rxc92]

Probably a second-hand Topre Type Heaven, although the quality is lacking compared to a Realforce or HHKB. Maybe a Realforce R2?

   

R2's are more expensive than R1, but are improved in many ways. The silencing is more complete, it's heavier and flexes less, and the layout is standardized. Not really a cheap way to get in considering you can't even buy them directly in the U.S. or EU.

[Riverman]

The R2 is heavier than the original Realforce?  I picked up my Realforce the other day and was shocked at how heavy it was.  It's just sat on my desk for months now.  I had forgotten how heavy those things are.  I have to admit that the silencing even on the original Realforce is so good that the keyboard almost borders on being boring.  I could stand to use a little more noise.  I have a Type Heaven that I silenced with KBDFans's Silence-X rings, and the sound that keyboard makes is just perfect to me.

[Polymer]

The R2 is not heavier. 

The specs I've seen suggests the 87U is slightly heavier than the R2 TKL..I checked with a scale and the R2 is 1035g vs 1091g for the 87U this is with the cable laying outside of the scale. 

I'm holding them side by side and that's roughly what it feels like to me. 

The 87U has slightly more twist..but it is incredibly solid...There really isn't much between the two boards.  The layout is standard for the R2 which is a disadvantage (sort of) if you want Topre Keycap sets...advantage if you're replacing the sliders...

At first I disliked the case size of the 87U but it has really grown on me..now it looks more premium than the R2 case which is just more of a personal preference.

I don't see a difference in the silencing unless someone is referring to the spacebar...which is probably the biggest improvement.  With the 87U, the spacebar clanked a lot regardless of which version you got (It is the stabilizers).  For the 87U, getting the aftermarket PBT spacebar fixes that problem.  With the R2, it comes with PBT (seems like it to me) and it doesn't clank.   I haven't tested it (Not going to mess with something that I'm happy with). 

If I had a choice between the two, it probably makes sense to go R2 just because that's the newest one..but if the premium was high enough, I'd be happier w/ the original RF if I had a PBT spacebar to pop on there....It is worth a little extra, I wouldn't pay a lot extra...

[typo]

I saw on Amazon that HHKB-Lite is $67. what the heck is that?

[ollir_]

I saw on Amazon that HHKB-Lite is $67. what the heck is that?

It's just a regular (membrane) rubber dome.

[Riverman]

I don't see a difference in the silencing unless someone is referring to the spacebar...which is probably the biggest improvement.  With the 87U, the spacebar clanked a lot regardless of which version you got (It is the stabilizers).  For the 87U, getting the aftermarket PBT spacebar fixes that problem.  With the R2, it comes with PBT (seems like it to me) and it doesn't clank.   I haven't tested it (Not going to mess with something that I'm happy with).

The stock ABS spacebar on my silenced 104 was quiet, but it clanked pretty badly when I put a PBT one on it.  A couple of thin pieces of a polypropylene cloth between the stabilizers and the keycap fixed that.  A paper towel worked equally well, but I was a little concerned that it would fall apart and interfere with the stabilizer's movement.

[Polymer]

I don't see a difference in the silencing unless someone is referring to the spacebar...which is probably the biggest improvement.  With the 87U, the spacebar clanked a lot regardless of which version you got (It is the stabilizers).  For the 87U, getting the aftermarket PBT spacebar fixes that problem.  With the R2, it comes with PBT (seems like it to me) and it doesn't clank.   I haven't tested it (Not going to mess with something that I'm happy with).

The stock ABS spacebar on my silenced 104 was quiet, but it clanked pretty badly when I put a PBT one on it.  A couple of thin pieces of a polypropylene cloth between the stabilizers and the keycap fixed that.  A paper towel worked equally well, but I was a little concerned that it would fall apart and interfere with the stabilizer's movement.

That's weird...For me, on both a RF and HHKB, the spacebar would be ok after taking it off and putting it back on but it would eventually clank a bit.

With the PBT spacebar, it fits so snug on the stabilizers and the slight warped nature of the spacebar really helped both of them. 

So you put some polypropylene between on top of the stabilizer and where it fits into the spacebar? 

[diymkb]

I learned about Topre switches a while back, but I've never really been interested until recently, where I started a journey through whatever thing sparks my curiosity next.
Well, I've tried a few and now Topre has made it top of my list. I'd favor the way I've been going with the other switches - by buying a second hand keyboard, trying it for a while and then selling it again (or keep it because it blows me away - in which case I'd sell whatever decorates my desk at that time).
So I was wondering if there is such a thing as budget models or affordable versions of  Topre boards that I could look out for.
I'd prefer a 100% keyboard in ISO-DE, but could live with smaller versions, as long as they have the big ISO Enter key.

You can do the Copre mod/Raincoat mod using the spillguard from a TG3 KBA-nBLTA keyboard onto a switch of your choice.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/aecr9i/thin_blue_switchesmohel_modraincoat_mod_the/

[Riverman]

So you put some polypropylene between on top of the stabilizer and where it fits into the spacebar?

The thing I used was a woven cloth from Griot's Garage.  They sell them as window wipes, but they're incredibly sturdy since they're made of woven polypropylene.  I cut out two pieces, about 1/2" square, put a small slit in the middle of each one, and then laid the pieces on top of the stabilizers.  I snapped the spacebar down on top, and it was much quieter.  I don't know exactly why it worked, but it worked wonders.

[diymkb]

So you put some polypropylene between on top of the stabilizer and where it fits into the spacebar?

The thing I used was a woven cloth from Griot's Garage.  They sell them as window wipes, but they're incredibly sturdy since they're made of woven polypropylene.  I cut out two pieces, about 1/2" square, put a small slit in the middle of each one, and then laid the pieces on top of the stabilizers.  I snapped the spacebar down on top, and it was much quieter.  I don't know exactly why it worked, but it worked wonders.

Do you have a picture of this setup?