Will Elon Musk make Twitter more chaotic than it is already ?

[fohat.digs]

What is it about? Does he think that there is too much chaos in the world, and/or does he want to gin up more emotion?

Will he try to make it more reliable and trustworthy?

[pixelpusher]

I don't think he's interested in the politics of Twitter.  I think he wants to turn Twitter into a WeChat clone for the Western market.  There's a huge amount of money to be made.

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 launching Tp4chat. all Tp4 150% of the time. get your daily dose of nihilism + existential crisis ONLY on Tp4chat.

[noisyturtle]

Twitter is slowly dying. Everyone I know is either off totally, or just uses it for business. Only companies, social media tools, and sociopaths use Twitter anymore.

[Leslieann]

More chaotic? A little, but mostly no.
I think Elon stuck his foot in his mouth and is making promises he can't keep.

He wants to be a bastion of free speech but if he does, the EU will boot Twitter, Canada will boot Twitter and shortly after that Apple and then Google will ban Twitter. You can't just let anything fly so the speech rules will probably be retained unless he wants to just throw money away and I doubt he can do that due to what he used as collateral. So while lifetime bans may be gone and things will be chaotic for a short time I think he's about to get a hard lesson on how many trolls the internet really has, how bad some of these people really are and the lifetime bans will return.


On the other hand, he did just cause a mass shakeup that few are talking about.
What does undoing lifetime bans mean to Truth Social and Parler?  Both of those sites have money problems and this just ruined the main reason both of them exist, there's a good chance they won't survive.

[tp4tissue]

if they'd just adjust the algorithm to limit the crazy part of right wing stuff,  it's pretty straightforward.

left wing are war mongers (even more than the right),  their insistence on fighting russia is really dangerous.

the right wing, well they want nothing to do with CO2 regulation because they're entirely oil backed.


so we're choosing, between destroy the world through nv(lear winter, or destroy the world through climate disaster, 

The longer this stupidity goes on, the more likely we're to have BOTH.. and it really looks like good odds on BOTH right now.

[fohat.digs]

how many trolls the internet really has, how bad some of these people really are

So a guy who is supposedly very smart missed the memo on what has been happening online for the past couple of decades ?

[Leslieann]

how many trolls the internet really has, how bad some of these people really are

So a guy who is supposedly very smart missed the memo on what has been happening online for the past couple of decades ?

What you see as a user is a lot different than what you see as a moderator/system admin.

If anything, he's at a disadvantage, he's not used to being told "you can't do that".

left wing are war mongers (even more than the right),  their insistence on fighting russia is really dangerous.

War hawks tend to be far more right wing than left.

Don't confuse standing up to a bully with wanting to fight.

[fohat.digs]

What you see as a user is a lot different than what you see as a moderator/system admin.

Huh? You mean that it's not really as bad as it seems? That there really aren't thousands of Russian military bots grinding away 24/7?

But wait, I'm not a user of social media. So I can't really see or understand what it looks like from the inside, only from the outside.

[tp4tissue]

left wing are war mongers (even more than the right),  their insistence on fighting russia is really dangerous.

War hawks tend to be far more right wing than left.

Don't confuse standing up to a bully with wanting to fight.

we ARE the bully. 

Pu7in is an as5h0le and a desp0t,  but we're the ones bullying him along with the entirety of Rv551a through the cold war, and then south asia, we sponsored death squads in south america, then the middle east, and the rest of the world.    but our bullying cred has come to a massive limit as everyone else has caught up in tech and arms.    there is a very real limit to our capacity to sustain our bullying.

there's a very real possibility Pu7in calls our bluff. i assure you, b1den going on TV saying we HAVE A PLAN in case they nvk us,   he doesn't have a plan.   Not a single department is even willing to put their name on any real contingency, because there's simply NO WINNING a Nvkular war.

There was serious movement for peace talks a few months back between Vkra1n and Rvs, but the United States put a stop to that just like we did before we 1nvaded 1raq.  We are the biggest rouge war mongers on the planet and the only people unaware of this are the ones that live here.

So, what exactly is happening, we play until show hand, and everyone losses...

Shelters/ Bvnkers for the "Rich" are basically death traps, and they will not survive long enough for humanity to reboot anyway in the event of infrastructure failure..

[Leslieann]

The world is not remotely that black and white and please stop ignoring the fact that everyone is playing in everyone else's backyard.

[tp4tissue]

The world is not remotely that black and white and please stop ignoring the fact that everyone is playing in everyone else's backyard.

Of course, but here's the thing.

Does LLann h8 russians, do russians h8 LLann ?  The answer is no, both ways.

What are Oligarchs,  People who possess Wealth they can't efficiently utilize, and Power they can't handle.

These lines on the map, called borders are imaginary domains of the Oligarchs, not a division of the people.

The Oligarchs, the most a55ho1e set of d1sgvsting sub-humans, who have throughout history fought over who gets to exploit the people in their "imaginary" domain, to which they maintain through violence and oppression.


That's human history, and if we continue in this way, there's only 1 ending.

[fohat.digs]

That's human history

The US Constitution worked pretty well for a couple of hundred years, we were even on the long slow road to overcoming racism until the post-1970s relapse.

[fohat.digs]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/26/technology/elon-musk-geopolitics-china-ukraine.html?referringSource=articleShare

[noisyturtle]

Elon's a little baby punk ***** liar hypocrite, someone needs to punch his face and remind him he's still human

[Leslieann]

What a week.

[treeleaf64]

Power corrupts the corruptible : (

Twitter is slowly dying. Everyone I know is either off totally, or just uses it for business. Only companies, social media tools, and sociopaths use Twitter anymore.

 I like twitter for amusing content, art sharing, and Funny news : )
The comment section is second to none

[pixelpusher]

Power corrupts the corruptible : (

Twitter is slowly dying. Everyone I know is either off totally, or just uses it for business. Only companies, social media tools, and sociopaths use Twitter anymore.

 I like twitter for amusing content, art sharing, and Funny news : )
The comment section is second to none

I feel like Reddit is better for everything you’ve listed here.  Especially comments. 

[tp4tissue]

All of these social media sites have very polarized agendas.  they're also flooded with bots, such that you can't really tell what's going on.  it's a means social manipulation.

The problem here is, the vast majority of the population is not educated enough to deduce a more complete picture other than the pamphlet handed to them. They also don't have enough time wealth to cross reference history, alternative media sources.

Reddit will give you the Agenda of the Oligarchs, that's about it.

[pixelpusher]

All of these social media sites have very polarized agendas.  they're also flooded with bots, such that you can't really tell what's going on.  it's a means social manipulation.

The problem here is, the vast majority of the population is not educated enough to deduce a more complete picture other than the pamphlet handed to them. They also don't have enough time wealth to cross reference history, alternative media sources.

Reddit will give you the Agenda of the Oligarchs, that's about it.

The best thing about Reddit is I only see my subreddits.  I only see funny **** and keyboard stuff.  I have to click on “News” to see the bull****.  There is no bull**** in my feed unless I hunt for it.  So it’s like a safe space for me.  Twitter is the exact opposite.  I constantly get **** in the tip of my feed that seems so obviously placed there to make me angry so that I’ll further engage. 

No one should ever use social media for news, it’s that simple.  Go to AP news every other day and you’ll have a pretty good idea of what’s going on.  The rest is just smoke in your eyes. 

[fohat.digs]

No one should ever use social media for news, it’s that simple.

That has always been my feeling.

[tp4tissue]

No one should ever use social media for news, it’s that simple.

That has always been my feeling.

i think we should at least look at "the media", to know  what "THEY" want us to think.  what we think otherwise, if we're so privileged will occur independently.


at this point in time, i concur with the the main agenda, contain and mitigate Pu7n's regime.

I disagree that we should have more democrat control.

Just as an example, De-Nv(learization primarily happened under republican presidents.

America as a whole is very war monger, but we're losing every one we start. with nothing to show for it. so there is clearly deep rooted problems in supporting the military industrial further.

This is the case for all countries, but it's very bad in America, we're spending so much time and money on the military while critical infrastructure is crumbling all around us.  Very little steps taken to genuinely work on climate change.

[Leslieann]

Multiple high level execs have now quit, including the FTC watchdog who was there to keep them from violating privacy laws.
The rats are leaving the ship.

Elon is also now saying bankruptcy is on the table.

[fohat.digs]

Elon is also now saying bankruptcy is on the table.

What a concept. Does that mean that it would sell off for a fraction of the previous $44B ?

Would anybody want it now? I just don't understand these things. Does it have value? Would it come back to life?

[Leslieann]

Bankruptcy has several levels, for example one simply cancels debt, another liquidates everything, and there is some in between.

I don't think canceling debt is going to help them much.
Infrastructure fees are recurring, as is payroll, what else is there Twitter makes nothing. I'm sure they have bills/ they could vacate but it's probably not enough to matter. It could let him out of repaying any loans taken by Twitter but again, how much is that going to help? If it's not a profitable company it's not a profitable company.  As for Musk himself, it won't protect him from repaying the loans he took to buy it and I suspect he had to have used something more than Twitter "stock" to buy Twitter and get a good rate, he didn't use cash, and those banks will come for whatever that collateral was, probably SpaceX and Tesla stock, which he would have to forfeit and pay taxes on.

If that happens, he would lose not only the $12Bil he invested but will be taxed on those stocks when he trades or sells them, about $15Bil, and that's before any lawsuits begin and they've already started. Those could tally more than the 44Bil and if he has to cash out stock to pay it he pays that, plus the taxes, and worse as he does so, the price will crash on those stocks making him liquidate more and more of SpaceX and Tesla as he does so.  While I doubt it could go that far he could have just destroyed Tesla and SpaceX. I'm sure he'll come out smelling like roses, he has too much money but those companies may never be the same if that happens.


That however brings up a secondary problem though.
Once a company is in trouble hedge funds will pile on. This was what happened to Gamestop, it became their wipping boy. Need cash, short Gamestop. Price not dropping, spread a rumor and watch it fall. They do this over and over until it just destroys a company then someone like Mitt Romney comes in and buys up the rubble for pennies on the dollar. They will use the media, feds, and blatant lies to cause a stock to tank because if the company folds they never have to pay any of it back, and since they don't own that stock it's not insider trading. It's shady and speaks of questionable morals, but legally it's a bit of a gray area. So if they pile on Tesla and SpaceX, the former of which is well known to be massively over valued and the CEO is cashing out tons of stocks it's only a matter of time before those hedgefunds start circling. Right or wrong, once they smell blood and start to circle it's not easy to recover.

I have no idea how far this will go.
I'm not saying Musk is dumb, he's not, but even smart people need lawyers and a good lawyer, I would think, would have kept him from doing this in the first place, though that may have been what happened when he tried to bail out of the deal. So have no idea what to expect, this is just spitballing end game worst case scenarios and there are many people, and smarter people than me doing it.

[fohat.digs]

Once a company is in trouble hedge funds will pile on.

So at best Musk will get a painful spanking.

Clearly Tesla and SpaceX will continue to exist since they are legitimately solid and valuable endeavors, but could Twitter just go away ?

Since I don't use social media (although I suppose that daily posts on the keyboard forum could fall under the greater conceptual umbrella of "social") it does not impinge on my life in any direct way. Twitter could evaporate forever at midnight tonight and I would not be able to tell except to hear other people discuss it, so * to me * it would simply cease to exist without leaving a ripple.

Is there still any residual value to it, even after the colossal taint of this affair ?

[treeleaf64]

Power corrupts the corruptible : (

Twitter is slowly dying. Everyone I know is either off totally, or just uses it for business. Only companies, social media tools, and sociopaths use Twitter anymore.

 I like twitter for amusing content, art sharing, and Funny news : )
The comment section is second to none

I feel like Reddit is better for everything you’ve listed here.  Especially comments.

With the Reddit there are less images
and it is still funny in its own way

[Leslieann]

So at best Musk will get a painful spanking.

He already is, turns out the stock he sold earlier in the week ($4bil) was to keep the lights on. He's not personally into this for $12B, he's now in it for $16B (about $20B after taxes).
Bet he wishes he'd paid that $1B bailout offer now.

Tesla was $208 last week, now $195, but could just be typical market forces at play, but Apple went up as much as Tesla went down.


Any residual value was lost last night when someone faked being a drug company pledging free insulin, that post stayed up for hours (no support staff). Others saw it and got on board doing similar with major companies including Tesla and SpaceX. No major company is going to stick around when anyone can fake being them and post lies.

And now the lawsuits start.
Companies hurt by the fake posts, advertisers will want refunds, co-investors will want refunds, banks will want their collateral. He violated multiple state labor laws by breaking contracts. People who were about to be vested for stock who were laid off just prior to avoid paying them will also sue (they already have started the process). There is also NO REFUNDS on blue checks, hope you didn't pay a year in advance... That's just the beginning. And what jury is going to feel bad for Musk in this situation. Good luck finding an impartial jury, we all saw this play out in real time because he wanted it to and few will feel bad for the richest man in the world screwing over the average worker. I suspect most will be settled out of court for this very reason. This is going to hurt.

Twitters value to Elon should be measured in the negatives. It's not an asset it's an anchor.
Someone might be able to turn the ship around but don't forget, Twitter was already bleeding money when he bought it. It's going to be pennies on the dollar.

[fohat.digs]

Someone might be able to turn the ship around

I guess that was my point, to me it just sounded like "Good riddance"

But is Twitter "too big to fail" and somebody will feel compelled to keep it running?

[noisyturtle]

Please excuse me while I shed tears into my food stamps and overdue bills for poor poor Elon

[Leslieann]

I guess that was my point, to me it just sounded like "Good riddance"

But is Twitter "too big to fail" and somebody will feel compelled to keep it running?

Very much not too big to fail.
What necessary service or goods do they provide? Nothing your website or Facebook page can't do, so other than saving jobs, and Musk already took care of many of those, there's little to save. It won't even help preserve their stock price since Musk bought it outright so I can't see any gov, trying to save it, though Saudi Arabia does own a large chunk of it. .


Will someone want it, probably but they'll have to rebuild it.
It's going to basically require destroying the company in order to keep it running, and I mean a very deep restructuring, they had a massive money problem even before Musk stepped in, that was why he made so many hardcore cuts and why execs literally popped champagne when he made the offer, which should tell you something. It was already a sinking ship of Titanic proportions and Musk being on the board should have known better. 


How do you save it and retain it?  You probably can't.
Musk wanted it to be no more than 5% bots and while I'm sure this was just a ploy to get out of the sale I suspect the number is actually more like 40-80% of active users are bots. Think about Ashley Madison the "dating" site, bots were what kept everything going there and that was a just a dating site, imagine what countries, politicians, companies or celebrities will spend on bots to promote themselves or their agenda, and bots are CHEAP. Like really, really cheap. Twitter runs on bots as does Facebook. So what happens when they go and user count drops 80%, users and advertisers will see it for what it really is, a dry and dusty ghost town with a soap box preacher or snake oil salesman on every corner.

You can't charge for basic use and serve ads after it was already free, pretty much no company ever makes that transition and survives. Worse, Musk wanted to charge the very people who brought users to Twitter and if the bulk of other users are bots, who's actually left to pay? You can't monetize bots and they suck up resources. It's not sustainable. Worse still, you can't pivot a social media site that's already peaked. Popular websites are like lightening in a bottle, you can't predict what will work and what won't and once it peaks, it's over. Social media is even worse on that front because it's user generated content, they leave, so does the content, and users are fickle as hell and they have plenty of other options, most of which are free.

Maybe Twitter will crash and burn and become exactly what it is supposed to be, a quick way to distribute information but without all of the celebrity and political hype, or it's domain could wind up being used for a knock-off dating site while it's logo sells kitty litter. Hard to say. If that sounds dire for Twitter, it is but it was never going to stay as it was.

[fohat.digs]

a quick way to distribute information

It would suit me fine to see the entire platform evaporate, but what is this "information" that is to be distributed?

Would anybody ever trust it any more? Or is the concept of "trust" outmoded altogether?

[noisyturtle]

Anyone else think he's purposely sabatoging it to burn Twitter to the ground? If so, that's fine.

[fohat.digs]

 he's purposely sabatoging it

That would be the obvious answer - except that his monetary losses are so great.

[Leslieann]

It would suit me fine to see the entire platform evaporate, but what is this "information" that is to be distributed?

Would anybody ever trust it any more? Or is the concept of "trust" outmoded altogether?

And that is the biggest issue they now face, not just from the public but advertisers as well.
If you can't protect your brand, you're not going to remain, this was something already coming to a head even before Musk took over. Tony the Tiger's Twitter has an entire team dedicated to removing furry porn and comments that gets posted to it.

Honestly, I think many companies would love nothing more than for it to evaporate.
Besides dealing with stuff like that it's a support nightmare. Got a problem a company won't help you with, shame them on Twitter and suddenly the company becomes far more apologetic.

As for what info, tornado info, hurricane info, Amber alerts... Again, nothing you couldn't do on a website or Facebook or something.

[pixelpusher]

I think you touched on the major point here about brands and their weight on twitter.  My take:

Musk is petty.  Musk is vain.  Musk wants to leave his stamp on humanity so bad it hurts to watch.  Did he ever read Ozymandias?  Maybe not. Anyway… here goes.

He really doesn’t like being held accountable by groups of people.  Government, investors, the press.  Man has a big authority issue.  I think he sees twitter as the spearhead of cancel culture.  A place where you can say what you want in theory but only if it doesn’t anger the people in charge.  You see how he might have a problem with that. It’s kinda what Kanye is up to as well (Dave Chapel touched on it in his SNL monologue).

I don’t think saying “I hate transgender people” is a good thing.  I don’t think it’s a simple opinion like “I hate broccoli.”   But having someone banned from twitter over their opinion is a tricky issue. 

I must admit, I hate Donald Trump.  I think I hate everyone who identifies as “MAGA”.   I could say as much on twitter, and probably not face any repercussions, right?  But Musk and conservative thinkers see this as a double standard.  Musk wants a twitter where anyone can express their opinion, whether you agree or not. His problem is, there are currently people who influence what can and can’t be said.  Those people are the advertisers. 

I think he wants them to leave.  Even at the cost of sinking the platform. If he can’t fix it, it’s not worth saving. He needs a twitter that isn’t beholden to advertisers at all.

So how the F do you run this behemoth platform or anything on that internet without big corporate ad revenue?   You run slim.  Fire as many as you can and still operate.  All of those micro services he’s talking about shutting down, all of this talk about wanting twitter to run faster… get rid of the **** that corporations use to track user interactions.   You no longer need it.  Not worried about censoring content, I bet that’s a lot of processes  and employees that you can lop off. Charge a small fee to “use” twitter and everyone will leave.   But if you call it a way to verify information (twitter blue), people see it as a perk. 

In short, burn what’s there and see if you can regrow without the virus that is corporate influence.


I don’t think humans are capable of interacting online in a mostly humane manner without oversight .  I don’t think that what he’s trying to accomplish can work.  I also don’t like to think that companies like Kellogg’s and Johnson and Johnson are a major reason why Nazis aren’t holding more public offices,  but that could be the case.

Anyway, it's just a guess.  No one knows how this will all turn out.  But I can see where he may think he's doing the right thing.  Maybe he is.  Just thinking out loud.

[Morbii]

Bet he wishes he'd paid that $1B bailout offer now.

That wasn't a bailout offer.  It was more complicated than that. I'm sure he wishes he could have...

[Leslieann]

Musk wants a twitter where anyone can express their opinion, whether you agree or not.

He's shown he doesn't even care about that, it's agree with what he says or you get banned, or fired.

Twitter is now his personal playground, nothing more and at some point everyone is going to get angry enough to just take their balls and go home.

[fohat.digs]

What does "hardcore" Twitter even mean?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/16/technology/elon-musk-twitter-employee-deadline.html

[Leslieann]

Basically he's making Twitter both a startup and going through restructuring.

And while it may seem like a good idea on the surface the most capable people are going to be the ones leaving voluntarily causing brain drain. Worse, they all know a lot about social media and even worse still, Twitter is quite old in terms of the internet, care to guess what these people will run off and build? Not saying it's easy to start from scratch but no one really appreciates old social media sites. I would bet almost anything that in a few years a new social media site will come of age and wipe Twitter out and it will be ex employees that do it.

[granola bar enthusiast]

i love it so much i might actually make an account and pretend to be allah

[fohat.digs]

in a few years a new social media site will come of age and wipe Twitter out

So Twitter is enough of a juggernaut to have the momentum to continue for years?

Social media is just an alien universe that I seem to understand less every day.

I started using these "computer" contraptions in the 1980s and hooked them up to the interwebs in the 1990s, and then I guess I just never evolved any further.

[Leslieann]

Musk is now talking about building Twitter 2.0 with super long hours like a startup.
Oh boy...

[Leslieann]

Apparently Twitter just sent a notice to employees.
All buildings are temporarily closed and all badge access is now disabled.

Twitter's front page is full of R.I.P. Twitter posts.


One report states that 75% of Twitter employees took Musk's 3 month severance offering, on top of those he laid off already.
Wow.

[fohat.digs]

I used to think that Trump epitomized hubris.

Clearly, Musk has over-topped him.
 

[Leslieann]

So apparently one of the people let go was in charge of badges and doors... Everyone including Musk was locked out... They had to have him come back, and fix it... Good job! This was after he had to re-hire the first two engineers he fired, that happened just prior to the email going out. He's a cat in a China shop*.

Musk also posted memes last night about how Twitter was dead and how Twitter 2.0 is going to rise from the ashes. So yeah, he acknowledges its dead. He also bragged about how it was setting records for users as it was dying, everyone loves to watch the train wreck, especially if it involves lots of hubris.


Not sure why he thinks it's so funny but he's about to find out it's not, no one wants to work for him and advertisers no longer trust him.
How will you build a new Twitter without any employees? Offshore it to India, yeah, that will work well. Even if you do, no advertiser is going to want to join until it's very much proven itself, and worst of all, the odds of rebuilding Twitter from the ground up are extremely slim. Social media rarely survives modest changes, in fact just look at what happened at every change he's made, yes it brought people to watch and laugh but advertisers fled. I also don't think he understands the mess he's made financially, yes these employees are leaving "willingly" (sort of like the military being volluntold), but there's many who didn't and a lot of people spent a looooot of money on this for him to crash it to the ground and then mock the whole thing, they're going to come for that money.

I think he thinks he's starting with a clean slate but is in fact starting with a ton of baggage hanging over his head and how is Twitter 2.0 different than Twitter 1.0 and still be Twitter or different than what he's already shown or described (and laughed at)?



*Bulls tend to avoid hitting things as Mythbusters showed, cats however will clean the shelves of anything on them.

[noisyturtle]

This is the best outcome we could have all hoped for. Twitter burning and imminently shutting down, and Elon losing face+money and looking like a twat.
It's so good! Best of all Worlds! Very happy all-around with how this has panned out. 

[fohat.digs]

At least Musk hasn't lost all of his users.

https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-biden-twitter-inc-technology-congress-d88e3de4b3cc095926dc133f53dc3320

[noisyturtle]

*knows there is a rampant problem with impersonation and bots

*sets up a user poll to reinstate controversial people

****ing pure genius

[CommonCurt]

This is the best outcome we could have all hoped for. Twitter burning and imminently shutting down, and Elon losing face+money and looking like a twat.
It's so good! Best of all Worlds! Very happy all-around with how this has panned out. 

+1  ****in Right