Author Topic: Who here actually likes typing on linear switches? (MX Black / Red) (Read 98367 times)

noisyturtle · « **Reply #50 on:** Thu, 05 April 2012, 19:57:31 »

As much as I'm an advocate for Browns(and my recently purchased Unicomp has been quite a treat,) I still prefer most gaming on a red with o rings. Little finger orgasms every time.

krzaq · « **Reply #51 on:** Sat, 07 April 2012, 08:43:00 »

I use reds at work and I like them.
Blues are my daily drivers but when my girlfriend goes to bed I'm switching to blacks.

I didn't like blacks for typing in the past but nowdays I like to use them for a change.

Squelos · « **Reply #52 on:** Mon, 09 April 2012, 06:19:34 »

Im just after going from blues, to browns, to reds.

Didnt like the browns too much compared to reds or blues.
Blues have that nice tactile feedback. Reds dont have it, are just linear.

Browns feel gritty, and you cant really feel the tactile bump.
So I figured to just get rid of that tactile bump, and go for reds.

Considering I used blues, I know when the keys register, so not having a bump doesnt bother me.

So yeah, final word, I like typing on linears. Things are just so smooth. And light on reds.

Going to get a Topre board, looking forward to getting it.

rknize · « **Reply #53 on:** Mon, 09 April 2012, 09:54:15 »

You know, after typing on the reds for a while with o-ring, I thought I'd try putting them on my Rosewill with browns. The o-rings give the reds a slight bounce that almost feels tactile. Putting them on the browns really made them "snappy". These are just 008 50A o-rings, so they also reduce the travel a bit (which I don't care for). It feels a bit like typing on a really nice scissor switch. I think having the o-ring bounce just after the subtle tactile bump is what is doing it.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. Sorry for the slightly OT.

Surly73 · « **Reply #54 on:** Mon, 09 April 2012, 10:36:57 »

I like the idea of o-rings, but never seem to like them once I've put them on. I like the standard travel on the Cherry switches for whatever reason and there's a certain amount of satisfaction from the solid bottom-out of the switch. At some point I'll probably force myself to try it for a while to see how I adapt.

csm725 · « **Reply #55 on:** Mon, 09 April 2012, 11:09:32 »

I prefer Reds to Browns.

iBro · « **Reply #56 on:** Mon, 09 April 2012, 12:40:18 »

I have typed on reds, blacks, blues, browns, and buckling springs.

I liked blues and buckling springs a lot. But I am going off to UNI in a few months and will have a roommate, so I don't think I can get by with a loud keyboard. So I bought a keyboard with black springs. They are pretty good and I liked them almost as much as the buckling springs. But out of curiosity I got some brown springs and modded my Poker to ghetto reds. And I have to say that I think reds are definitely my favorite linear switch, and probably my favorite switch all together.

I like the smoothness and of the linear switches, and the lightness of the red switches makes typing feel fluent and easy.

PRISONER 24601 · « **Reply #57 on:** Tue, 10 April 2012, 00:00:37 »

MX Blacks are the best, most tried-and-true mechanical switch on the market.
Despite their 60-something grams actuation point, blacks are as ergo as anyone could ever want. The fact that it's hard to bottom out means that you're constantly landing on a spring instead of a metal plate. Weird science, huh?

sordna · « **Reply #58 on:** Tue, 10 April 2012, 00:13:38 »

Weirdor not, the science should work; the uber-expensive Maltron handcrafted ergonomic keyboards use cherry MX blacks, and BTW these are keyboards made for typing.

PRISONER 24601 · « **Reply #59 on:** Tue, 10 April 2012, 00:40:28 »

Quote from: sordna;572087

Weirdor not, the science should work; the uber-expensive Maltron handcrafted ergonomic keyboards use cherry MX blacks, and BTW these are keyboards made for typing.

Precisely!

My Kenisis with browns is just too light.

ander · « **Reply #60 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 05:51:38 »

(Note to potential "necro" critics: I'm replying to this older topic because people still read these topics, looking for information. MX linear switches are a happening thing—not a relic of the past—so there's no reason to rag on people for reviving a good thread about them. We're here to encourage keyboard discussion, not try to make each other feel guilty about it. 'Nuff said!)

Sure, I "actually" like linear switches. I never did get the tactile-feedback thing—why do you need keys to "tell" you when they've actuated? Aren't you looking at your display? Can't you see characters appear as you type them? Why do you need non-visual confirmations? If you're slowing down enough to wait for that, aren't you getting in your own way?

That said, sure, I switch to my Cherry Browns now and then, just for the different feeling. They're crispy, sassy. They're like your other girlfriend—the one who's not smooth and glamorous, just fun.

I don't rely on the Browns' tactile feedback; that'd defeat the purpose of touch typing, IMHO. But it's fun to change things up now and then. It keeps you interested.

MPZ · « **Reply #61 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 06:17:10 »

Interesting thread...

When I first discovered mechanical keyboards (long before I bought any), I tried out the big 4 Cherry switch types at a local Fry's. Frankly, I can't help but feel that the tactile feedback of cherry switches is junk. There, I said it. I also have small, weak fingers so my favorite MX switch is red by miles. It's funny... typing is definitely the most "effortless" for me on MX reds, but I'm typing this on a Novatouch (Topre). Even though I'm slower and more distracted on Topres, somehow I still drastically prefer it. Maybe I just don't like the particular red board I have right now (or maybe I just prefer less mistakes), but even though reds do a better job of stepping out of the way of getting my thoughts down (until I make a mistake- I am apparently too OCD not to correct as I go) I still prefer the sensation of Topres. I guess I'd rather be more conscious of my keypresses- apparently it somehow makes me happy. Go figure- lol now I want to try buckling spring.

-MPZ

Den441 · « **Reply #62 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 07:37:46 »

I like my 62g red board. Perfect weight and buttery smooth linear mechanical action. It is really great for any gaming application where spamming key presses is necessary. Blacks are a bit too heavy for me and my fingers get tired. Stock reds are a bit too light, and it almost feels like there is no spring in the switch. I enjoy typing on them as well, but I prefer BS and clicky ALPS for that. I find the cherry style tactile and clicky switches to be highly over-rated.

Nai_Calus · « **Reply #63 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 08:00:51 »

Quote from: ander on Sat, 07 February 2015, 05:51:38

I never did get the tactile-feedback thing—why do you need keys to "tell" you when they've actuated? Aren't you looking at your display? Can't you see characters appear as you type them? Why do you need non-visual confirmations? If you're slowing down enough to wait for that, aren't you getting in your own way?

Because I'm not relying on reading what I'm typing, either, other than to check for typos. It's hard to explain really. The tactile feedback lets me feel that the key has actuated and move on to the next key without having to wait to read what character just came on the screen. I don't have to look to see if I typed that s, I know I did because I felt it activate. Half the time I don't even really look at what I'm typing as I type it, I'm looking a few words back, or reading something else, or just kind of staring into space thinking. The tactile feedback allows me to type without having to worry about whether I actuated the key. I felt it, I don't need to look at anything to know I did. The tactile feedback is faster than visual feedback for me. If I waited to confirm visually, I'd need to wait for my brain to process that OK, there's a 'c', let's hit the next letter, there's an 'a', let's hit the next letter... Instead it's just bump move bump move bump move bump move etc.

Now, I typed that on my keyboardwith blues, not looking at the screen. This I''m doing ther same but with an Infinitty with Gatreron Clears, which are a super-light linear, erven lighter than Reds.

Now look at what a mess that was compared to the blues. I can't feel the actuation point so I made a ton of errors. So I have to watch the letters coming up on screen. It's awkward as hell and slows me down even though I'm typing on something that should in theory be 'faster'. It also hurts - The only feedback is from bottoming out(Which is almost impossible not to do on Gateron Clears, it's a 35g linear. I still bottom out on my blues a bit but not consistently like I end up doing with linear switches, at least light ones.

That said, I think there's something to be said for *weight* even more than tactile/not tactile - I don't enjoy the feel of MX black at all but I imagine I'd find it easier to type on than reds or gateron clears due to the heavier weighting. If you have a light touch reds or browns would both be better than a heavier switch, if you're a thunder typer blacks and clears would both be better. A switch you're bottoming out is not a switch you're going to find comfortable long-term because you're pounding against metal, basically, when the keycap bottoms out. Ouch. Black gives enough backsass it'd cushion my thunderfingers from that despite not sending the 'stop, idiot' signal to my brain.

morpheus · « **Reply #64 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 08:42:30 »

Browns used to be my fastest, but the tactile feedback was holding me back.

Blacks in particular proved to hit my sweet spot.

Roibhilin · « **Reply #65 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 12:15:50 »

i really want to try mx blacks because i like quiet keyboards but idk yet

noisyturtle · « **Reply #66 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 12:31:10 »

holy resurrection Batman!

Lurch · « **Reply #67 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 12:35:04 »

Quote from: noisyturtle on Sat, 07 February 2015, 12:31:10

holy resurrection Batman!

SpikeBolt · « **Reply #68 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 13:50:44 »

I don't really care about WPM, I care about feelingz.

I type a bit slower on my reds but I absolutely love them. Wouldn't trade reds for any other MX switch.

Oobly · « **Reply #69 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 14:16:27 »

I don't. I particularly don't like not having any feedback of when the switch actuates, so I tend to still be accelerating my finger until bottom-out on linears, which makes for a jarring stop.

If you haven't tried trampoline modded 62g ErgoClears you haven't truly lived.

And we have enough interesting threads going on without necro'ing old ones.

SpikeBolt · « **Reply #70 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 14:42:40 »

I've tried pretty much every MX Switch, including 62g clears. Reds are still my favourite. To each his own.

jacobolus · « **Reply #71 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 16:10:06 »

No mention yet of using linear switches with a solenoid/clicker/buzzer/speaker?

Anyone who likes linear switches should try building a keyboard with a solenoid in it. Super fun.

jacobolus · « **Reply #72 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 16:15:09 »

Quote from: ander on Sat, 07 February 2015, 05:51:38

(Note to potential "necro" critics: I'm replying to this older topic because people still read these topics, looking for information. MX linear switches are a happening thing—not a relic of the past—so there's no reason to rag on people for reviving a good thread about them. We're here to encourage keyboard discussion, not try to make each other feel guilty about it. 'Nuff said!)

Note, very similar questions get discussed and debated about once a month, sometimes in the middle of unrelated threads, sometimes as the explicit topic. If it were a unique topic, resurrecting an old thread like this would make sense. Otherwise, most of the content of these types of threads ends up being redundant with a very high noise/signal ratio, and having disjointed water cooler conversations from 2012 mixed with 2015 doesn’t add much value IMO; most of the people involved in the 2012 discussion have moved on, so it’s impossible to ask for their follow-up thoughts or question them, which means for anyone reading along, there’s a (not marked in any obvious way) big discontinuity in the conversation halfway through.

If you really want to make a helpful resource for the “people still reading these old topics looking for information”, then the thing to do is comb through all of the relevant threads, summarize whatever information you learn, and make a new post cross-linking them all.

Ideally that’s what the wiki would be for, but the wiki seems to be effectively dead, unfortunately.

aref · « **Reply #73 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 17:07:40 »

I like linear switches for typing; but I'd like to see Cherry come out with a linear switch between Red and Blacks, perhaps at ~53 grams. I've used Reds, but they are a bit light for me; and I've used Blacks; but they get to feel too demanding after two hours of typing. My favorite board is a RF 87UB/55g; it's tactile, but the tactility is subtle compared with Cherry's tactile switches. Topre's 55g has a perceptible 'bump'; but, for me, it melds smoothly with switch's resistance profile.

jacobolus · « **Reply #74 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 17:20:16 »

brownbaglunch · « **Reply #75 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 17:43:32 »

Please name a cheap compact or mini board that has these. I always wanted to try these.

Firebolt1914 · « **Reply #76 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 17:57:31 »

Quote from: brownbaglunch on Sat, 07 February 2015, 17:43:32

Please name a cheap compact or mini board that has these. I always wanted to try these.

What is your definition of cheap? Also, what is your definition of compact? Something like the Poker, or V60 has blacks/reds, but they might not be cheap. the Quickfire Rapid has reds, is fairly cheap, but TKL.

sordna · « **Reply #77 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 19:17:14 »

Quote from: jacobolus on Sat, 07 February 2015, 16:10:06

No mention yet of using linear switches with a solenoid/clicker/buzzer/speaker?

Kinesis Advantage LF has linears and a buzzer. Better than tactile feedback, like it so much I even put a buzzer in my ergodox (see my sig for the mod).

Quote

Anyone who likes linear switches should try building a keyboard with a solenoid in it. Super fun.

Can you link us to a video so we get the idea?

Nover · « **Reply #78 on:** Sat, 07 February 2015, 19:26:45 »

Quote from: brownbaglunch on Sat, 07 February 2015, 17:43:32

Please name a cheap compact or mini board that has these. I always wanted to try these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Data911-Data-911-MDS2000-keyboard-touchpad-ps-2-ps2-M2C-TG3-TP/230825921862

alfa_lima_echo_xray · « **Reply #79 on:** Sun, 08 February 2015, 00:54:01 »

Another vote for linear switches for typing! +1 the "friction" felt in both the Browns and Blues from the tactile feedback just doesn't work for me.

Someone said something earlier about the reds being a really 'clean' switch which resonated with me.
I'm sure my preference is somewhat informed by having a very light technique these days, no more bottoming out. You can absolutely learn the actuation point on the Red and Black switches and have a very fast and accurate technique typing with either of them.

Asininity · « **Reply #80 on:** Sun, 08 February 2015, 00:58:00 »

I only use my K60 for gaming. Browns, Blues, and Clears superior to Reds when it comes to typing.

Plus, it's a fantastic excuse to buy more boards!

jacobolus · « **Reply #81 on:** Sun, 08 February 2015, 01:23:42 »

Quote from: jacobolus

Anyone who likes linear switches should try building a keyboard with a solenoid in it. Super fun.

Quote from: sordna on Sat, 07 February 2015, 19:17:14

Can you link us to a video so we get the idea?

I’m not sure there are any good videos online (I can’t find any in a few minutes of searching). I’ve definitely seen a beam spring keyboard or two with solenoids demonstrated (not linear switches of course), and maybe also some Hall Effect board, at an SF Bay Area keyboard meetup. (If you want a video maybe ask on Deskthority? A few people over there have beam spring boards with working solenoids set up.)

The basic idea of a linear solenoid is it’s a little magnetic metal rod that gets accelerated sideways by passing a current through a coiled wire wrapped around it. Basically, you turn on the current to slap the rod into part of the keyboard case. So it’s a similar concept to a buzzer/speaker, except there’s a physical impact involved, which makes everything more fun.

Getting a good sound/slight feeling out of it requires a good case design/material, with the solenoid placed in a spot where hitting the case will be the right volume/sound.

sordna · « **Reply #82 on:** Sun, 08 February 2015, 11:40:06 »

Quote from: jacobolus on Sun, 08 February 2015, 01:23:42

Quote from: jacobolus
Anyone who likes linear switches should try building a keyboard with a solenoid in it. Super fun.

Quote from: sordna on Sat, 07 February 2015, 19:17:14
Can you link us to a video so we get the idea?

I’m not sure there are any good videos online (I can’t find any in a few minutes of searching). I’ve definitely seen a beam spring keyboard or two with solenoids demonstrated (not linear switches of course), and maybe also some Hall Effect board, at an SF Bay Area keyboard meetup. (If you want a video maybe ask on Deskthority? A few people over there have beam spring boards with working solenoids set up.)

The basic idea of a linear solenoid is it’s a little magnetic metal rod that gets accelerated sideways by passing a current through a coiled wire wrapped around it. Basically, you turn on the current to slap the rod into part of the keyboard case. So it’s a similar concept to a buzzer/speaker, except there’s a physical impact involved, which makes everything more fun.

Getting a good sound/slight feeling out of it requires a good case design/material, with the solenoid placed in a spot where hitting the case will be the right volume/sound.

So I gather you haven't actually tried it.
Sounds fun but I wonder if it can keep up with 100 wpm typing.

shantanujoshi · « **Reply #83 on:** Sun, 08 February 2015, 11:43:27 »

I make way too many mistakes on linear switches and need greens/clears to really do well. For some reason the mid way actuation force in topre swtiches is perfect for me (I'm primarily a typist don't play games at all) so definitely give them a try.

eth0s · « **Reply #84 on:** Sun, 08 February 2015, 11:46:39 »

forum necromancy is okay, as long as ur not resurrecting some old troll thread.

vintage blacks are totally awesome.

reds are pretty good as well.

modern blacks? meh.

Just mah opinion.

evolveS · « **Reply #85 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 09:09:04 »

Quote from: eth0s on Sun, 08 February 2015, 11:46:39

vintage blacks are totally awesome.

reds are pretty good as well.

This. Smooth linear switches are divine.

sethk_ · « **Reply #86 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 10:44:41 »

I ****ed up my blacks with thick lube, but after typing on them for about 24 hours, they have loosened up some since they were bran new and never used, but I still want to try properly lubed 62g blacks

XMIT · « **Reply #87 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 12:54:07 »

Heh. I "ruined" my MX Clear switches with thick grease as well. Then I spent about 8 hours total removing every switch, opening them, and removing nearly all of the lube with isopropanol and cotton swabs. But - that tiniest bit of lube that stayed behind - makes the keyboard really excellent, no grittiness or stickiness at all.

Thank goodness for solder suckers.

I know that I have "heavy" hands so for me Brown and Red switches are basically unusable. I really, really like tactile switches and am glad I discovered MX Clears.

The Max Keyboard eight switch sampler really helped me make up my mind. A nice thing about that sampler is that the switches are not soldered down so it is possible to open individual switches, move springs around, apply/remove grease, etc. That kit affirmed my hatred of Browns and my love of Clears. (I may try to find a Gray for spacebars.) PSA - the kit is back in stock, after being out of stock for a month.

XMIT · « **Reply #88 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 12:57:30 »

Let me add: I almost never play games on my keyboards. When I do play games I use a game pad. I make a living through typing, indirectly. Tactile switches are really great when you *must* know that a key was pressed, e.g. when typing commands blindly into a console. Though, I guess nothing is more tactile than bottoming out.

I'll chalk this up to personal preference.

pr0ximity · « **Reply #89 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 13:15:41 »

Love typing on my Reds.

BOTTOMOUTBOYS

jacobolus · « **Reply #90 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 13:27:44 »

For playing computer games, I have no opinion, not my thing, but for a linear switch for typing, the spring weight on green Alps is just about perfect, and white space invaders are a bit stiffer than that but still pretty good; both also happen to be smoother than any unlubed MX switches.

The closest equivalent in MX terms is something like a vintage MX black with 65/67g “Korean” springs. In my opinion, MX black is a bit too stiff (tiring), and MX red is quite a bit too light (accidental presses). 62g is pretty good, but still a hair lighter than my preference.

Then again, I’d rather type on clicky switches.

hashbaz · « **Reply #91 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 13:28:38 »

Quote from: Den441 on Sat, 07 February 2015, 07:37:46

I like my 62g red board. Perfect weight and buttery smooth linear mechanical action.

Yep. This is the best switch/weight combination for me that I've discovered in 4 years of keyboard nerdery.

BrewCaps · « **Reply #92 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 13:38:38 »

Not me, Blues all the way!

azhdar · « **Reply #93 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 14:42:43 »

I use my Blacks Daily. Until I tried Vintage blacks or ergo clears, I have no intention to change.

Oobly · « **Reply #94 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 15:53:33 »

Quote from: hashbaz on Mon, 09 February 2015, 13:28:38

Quote from: Den441 on Sat, 07 February 2015, 07:37:46
I like my 62g red board. Perfect weight and buttery smooth linear mechanical action.

Yep. This is the best switch/weight combination for me that I've discovered in 4 years of keyboard nerdery.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think Cherry should switch to 62g springs and reduce their range to 3 switches: Blues/Greens with 62g, Blacks/Reds with 62g and Clears with 62g. No Browns, no other spring weights.

spiritistz · « **Reply #95 on:** Tue, 10 February 2015, 08:53:50 »

To me, linear switch just too sensitive to type on, and way too easy to create the typo.

Altis · « **Reply #96 on:** Tue, 10 February 2015, 10:59:46 »

Linears can be nice to use. Blacks are too heavy for my liking and Reds are quite light though. I only wish the modern MX linears were smoother... I can feel and even hear roughness in the travel.

I strangely find linears easier to not bottom out with. I think it's because the force needed to overcome a tactile bump often is enough force to reach the bottom. As long as the linears are heavy enough, you don't reach the bottom (or do so quite gently).

I'd love to try vintage blacks perhaps with 62g Korean springs. I suspect those would be ideal.

One last note is that I love going back to Browns after using Reds a while. I can't explain it, but they feel nicer than going from Blue or BS to Browns.

Tyrosh22 · « **Reply #97 on:** Tue, 10 February 2015, 12:25:58 »

I kind of like typing on reds as it feels soooo light, but for longer typing sessions I prefer blue switches. Maybe I should try blacks for typing!

mashby · « **Reply #98 on:** Tue, 10 February 2015, 13:02:17 »

When I got back into mechanical keyboards, I first started with MX-Blue because I thought of myself as a "clicky" guy since I cut my teeth on buckling spring. I made the move to 60% after a couple of months and bought a Poker X from Mechanical Keyboards. They were getting rid of their stock, since the Poker II was rumored to be coming out soon and all they had left were the MX-Black, so that's what I bought.

I had played with MX-Red switches before and wasn't wild about them. I just figured MX-Black would be much the same. I figured I would desolder the board and replace the switches with something more to my liking, but while I waited for some parts to come in, I thought I'd at least begin using it. That's when it happened. I fell in love with MX-Black.

It caught me by surprise, it truly did, but there I was absolutely loving the feel. Most of it was the weight of the spring, I found that I enjoyed the added resistance since I usually bottom out when I type. However, I also found I didn't miss the click at all. There was enough audio feedback without the need for an extra click. I ended up doing a rebuild/refresh of the board, and opted to lube the switches and found it to be an improvement. Then when I came across the Signature Plastics SA profile with Commando 23, I was done for. Typing on lubed MX-Black switches using SA key caps is near perfection to me.

For the past two years, the MX-Black Poker X has been my daily driver and I can't see ever getting away from it now since I've added the Penumbra Key Cap Set.

That being said... I don't just type on one keyboard.

Today, I'm sporting a Poker X with MX-White that I haven't typed on in at least 9 months and I usually rotate in a HHKB Professional 2 Type-S at least a few times a week. So I guess what I'm saying is that it's fine to have your preferences, but it's also fun to mix things up a bit.

From my perspective, it's not just the switch, but also the combination of key caps and case that culminates into the overall feel. MX-Blues with thin ABS key caps is too high pitched for me and distracting. The MX-Whites I'm typing on now have IMSTO's thick PBT key caps and provide a nice solid feel that dampens the high pitch of the click just enough.

I think that's why this rabbit hole goes so deep. It's not just any one thing that provides us the "ideal typing experience", but a combination of things that you dial in over time. At least that's how it's been for me.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #99 on:** Tue, 10 February 2015, 13:04:59 »

SKCM Green Alps

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Author Topic: Who here actually likes typing on linear switches? (MX Black / Red) (Read 98367 times)