Author Topic: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!  (Read 7726 times)

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Offline sth

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hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 17:31:15 »
i am dialing down on my keyboard aquiring but when i see cool member-run projects and new, novel layouts, i just can't help myself  :D

7bit has made some new layout designs and he's running an IC on deskthority for them.

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/hypermicro-and-hypermini-keyboard-t4185.html

he also has some nicely-thought-out poker-sized PCBs - some with arrow keys, some without. there is a HHKB clone and an iso 60% layout (!) as well.
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Offline The_Beast

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 17:33:59 »
If it's the same size as the poker, what's the point?
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Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 17:36:08 »
the hyper micro is smaller than the poker

the other layouts have more/different keys and they are teensy based so you can make your own fn layer. i am not personally very interested in those layouts but i think they are pretty neat and they serve a niche for those unhappy with the poker/pure layouts and lack of mod-ability.
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Offline SmallFry

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 17:47:31 »
This is the birth of the 40% layout?

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 17:50:47 »
Besides the weirdo ones that maybe a few people might make use of, if just want better 60%, there is already the GH60 for that... would be better to have more buyer for one project than 2 projects that are almost the same thing.
Hypermicro might be amusing if can use a 4unit space <C_N> instead of that layout as shown. Makes me want to make a totally custom toy arm based pc in the style of a C64 but super tiny.

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 17:53:29 »
I'd buy a micro if I had a solid case idea available.

Even still, going old school metal plate/riser to prevent grounding/pcb/plate might be enough to get me on board.

Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 17:54:33 »
Besides the weirdo ones that maybe a few people might make use of, if just want better 60%, there is already the GH60 for that... would be better to have more buyer for one project than 2 projects that are almost the same thing.
yeah i mostly agree with that. nice to see an iso native layout in this size though.

i would love to see a mini64. maybe a raspi or old android phone (i would love to get some use out of of my first-gen Droid!).
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Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 17:55:21 »
I'd buy a micro if I had a solid case idea available.

Even still, going old school metal plate/riser to prevent grounding/pcb/plate might be enough to get me on board.
don't worry about it ;)

but seriously coming up with your own case / mounting plate would be cake. just use motherboard standoffs on a block of wood until you come up with something cleaner :)
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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 18:03:59 »
Hah, new idea for The_Beast if there's actual interest...

Or use the same guy he's (The_beast again) getting poker/60% plates done through to cut metal plates for it...

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 18:07:15 »
It's got a "BS" key...press repeatedly to auto-generate undergrad humanities papers? :p
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Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 18:16:09 »
It's got a "BS" key...press repeatedly to auto-generate undergrad humanities papers? :p
the BS key is actually the only key on 7bit's personal layout.
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Offline The_Beast

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 18:33:58 »
Hah, new idea for The_Beast if there's actual interest...

Or use the same guy he's (The_beast again) getting poker/60% plates done through to cut metal plates for it...

WAT?!?!???!?!
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 23:20:53 »
Trying to suggest something more like this:



Same size, but makes use of the wasted rectangular space on the bottom. Alternatively, the two shifts could become 2.5x keys instead of adding 1x keys to their sides. The key labels are just an example, since it's reprogrammable you could change it to suit your needs. The important thing that I'm trying to change is to give this layout the three things that it's really missing in order to be usable for "basic typing", which are the comma, question mark and exclamation mark. The hyphen is arguably common as well. Everything else could be put on a function layer without impacting basic use too much.

This modified layout also has the neat 1.5 - 1 - 1.5 on the bottom that people tend to like. The 1x circle key in the middle could probably be removed entirely to have two 2x keys instead of two 1.5x keys.
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Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 23:22:18 »
i like some of these ideas. keep in mind it's gonna be teensy based so you can do whatever you want to the layout. that circle key is dumb :P
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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 23:28:37 »
Hah, new idea for The_Beast if there's actual interest...

Or use the same guy he's (The_beast again) getting poker/60% plates done through to cut metal plates for it...

WAT?!?!???!?!

You making wood plates for the micro

Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 23:42:40 »
Actually, here's another little arrangement that will likely prove more popular with most people:



It has the 1.5 - 1 - 1.5 that people are comfortable with, removes the circle button which most people probably don't care too much for, doesn't require any stabilizers and has all the basic things needed for common text.
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Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 23:44:24 »
you can see my reply on the DT thread ;) i'll leave discussion of the layout itself to deskthority and 7bit's discretion.
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Offline wetto

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 23:48:10 »
Actually, here's another little arrangement that will likely prove more popular with most people:

Show Image


It has the 1.5 - 1 - 1.5 that people are comfortable with, removes the circle button which most people probably don't care too much for, doesn't require any stabilizers and has all the basic things needed for common text.

At least that way you can type in languages other than English... Characters such as ' " ~ ` are quite needed for many European languages...
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 23:57:12 »
While I understand, it's not really possible to accommodate all European characters on the first layer in such a small space. However, since most are just modifications to standard letters (i.e. accents), it would probably be reasonable to get the characters either using the right Alt as Alt Gr, using the OS's way of handling European characters. For example, on some layouts you can press something like /e to get é, and :(letter) to get umlauts, etc. Additional required letters could also be placed on the function layer. Also, the whole thing is customizable! So you could easily also remove the right hand versions of shift, alt, and control and replace them with what you need.
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Offline wetto

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 00:02:09 »
While I understand, it's not really possible to accommodate all European characters on the first layer in such a small space. However, since most are just modifications to standard letters (i.e. accents), it would probably be reasonable to get the characters either using the right Alt as Alt Gr, using the OS's way of handling European characters. For example, on some layouts you can press something like /e to get é, and :(letter) to get umlauts, etc. Additional required letters could also be placed on the function layer. Also, the whole thing is customizable! So you could easily also remove the right hand versions of shift, alt, and control and replace them with what you need.

That's what I'm talking about, even though I use an ANSI keyboard, believe it or not, these things can actually accommodate all European characters into a single keyboard layout.

Example:

' + e = é
" + e = ë
CTRL + ALT + W = Å
~ + a = ã
' + c = ç

And when you're making a keyboard layout, you should at least plan to make it possible to do that.

Ex: Removing keys such as ' and " from the keyboard keys would be the worst thing to do, if you plan to make it possible to write in European Languages.
« Last Edit: Wed, 31 October 2012, 00:05:36 by wetto »
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 00:05:26 »
Well, like I said, you could just change one of the keys. Remove right shift and replace it with `~ and you'd have everything you listed. It's also a bit difficult for me to plan to make it possible to use all European characters without knowing them all. I'm from Quebec so I actually use most accents myself when typing in French. I don't have the ~ though, and we're still missing the German ß off the top of my head unless they have a simple way to do that. French is actually missing << >> which is used instead of quotation marks.
« Last Edit: Wed, 31 October 2012, 00:08:49 by oneproduct »
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Offline wetto

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 00:11:58 »
Well, like I said, you could just change one of the keys. Remove right shift and replace it with `~ and you'd have everything you listed. It's also a bit difficult for me to plan to make it possible to use all European characters without knowing them all. I'm from Quebec so I actually use most accents myself when typing in French. I don't have the ~ though, and we're still missing the German ß off the top of my head unless they have a simple way to do that. French is actually missing << >> which is used instead of quotation marks.

Following the ANSI example, at least ß is easy, but now the « » would be quite complicated...

Control + Alt + S = ß
Control + Alt + [ = «
Control + Alt + ] = »

An ALT GR would help a damn lot...
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Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 00:13:32 »
you are missing the point! this is a fully open board! you can do whatever you want to the layout -- ignore the mappings and focus on the physical space allocated for keys. hell you could probably write a chorded layout for this.
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 00:17:15 »
Here's another idea without using the duplicated bottom right row. This arrangement allows for arrows on the first layer (and I added the `~ keys for European characters).



Oh... you know what I just realized. Removing a column from the middle is not too much of a problem for Qwerty people, but in colemak, that ; that disappeared was something important for me. The middle row now only has 9 letters instead of 10 that I actually need... I guess that counts me out on this idea.
« Last Edit: Wed, 31 October 2012, 00:30:18 by oneproduct »
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 01:08:03 »
Alright, last idea. I added one column, so it's now 4x13, which makes it usable for Colemak and Dvorak people while still providing usefulness for Qwerty people and keeping it smaller than usual. Again, don't focus on where exactly everything is since the idea is that this is reprogrammable, just focus on the size of the keys and the physical layout to see what kind of options it provides.



Notes:
Punctuation is grouped together. For European people `~ is available, for myself I'd replace it with hyphen probably.
1.5x - 1x - 1.5x mods on the bottom left which people enjoy and which lets them use part of their RGBY kits.
Arrows available in the top layer, similar to the Race or Deck keyboards.
All characters needed for "basic writing" with the exception of maybe hyphen and parentheses.
' " is pretty close to where it normally is.
Comma and period in their normal places, ? pretty close to normal.
Left shift that reaches to the edge of the board, which is better for gamers.
That circle is back in the middle... Not sure what to do about it. If I removed it then the space and backspace would become too large and need stabilizers. I'm sure 7bit is happier to see it there though for whatever he uses it for! Could be used for another layer or as an Alt Gr for European characters.
« Last Edit: Wed, 31 October 2012, 02:15:29 by oneproduct »
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Offline Sinzz

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 01:20:46 »
man, I'm LOVING they layout of the c600! been looking for a keyboard with that layout for the longest time, still have my arrow keys but the size of a poker.
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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 01:34:39 »
A lot of these looks good. What does the circle button do?
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 01:40:42 »
I imagine 7bit intends it to be another modifier key, but since this keyboard would be programmable, you could do anything you want with it.
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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 09:20:50 »
Ic. Like an open key or undecided.
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Offline Larken

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 10:17:06 »
Not that I'm likely to get one, but this is a pretty sweet idea to be used in conjunction with one of those small sized tablets thats' coming out nowadays. The mechanical keyboard cure for a microsoft surface *drool*. For the other tablets without USB connections, bluetooth and batteries are just another complication.
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Offline shibbyllama889

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 11:14:53 »
Why is the backspace on the right and the space on the left? Most split space bars (or entirely different keys in this case) have those keys switched. I'd say more people hit space with their right thumb than their left. Obviously this could change with everything being programmable, but I'm curious as to why it was like that in the first place!

Either way, these are interesting layouts. I am always hesitant to dramatically switch layouts just for sanity when using standard boards. I love the idea of a layout smaller than 60% though.

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 11:17:25 »
We so need to get s Bluetooth gb going! I would be the coolest thing on the block!

Why is the backspace on the right and the space on the left? Most split space bars (or entirely different keys in this case) have those keys switched. I'd say more people hit space with their right thumb than their left. Obviously this could change with everything being programmable, but I'm curious as to why it was like that in the first place!

Either way, these are interesting layouts. I am always hesitant to dramatically switch layouts just for sanity when using standard boards. I love the idea of a layout smaller than 60% though.

I push the spacebar with my left thumb. That Is why.
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Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 13:19:39 »
Why is the backspace on the right and the space on the left? Most split space bars (or entirely different keys in this case) have those keys switched. I'd say more people hit space with their right thumb than their left. Obviously this could change with everything being programmable, but I'm curious as to why it was like that in the first place!

Either way, these are interesting layouts. I am always hesitant to dramatically switch layouts just for sanity when using standard boards. I love the idea of a layout smaller than 60% though.
did you not read this thread? the mapping does not matter. its a fully programmable board and you can make the keys do whatever you want. make it all backspaces.
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 21:17:28 »
Gamers have a high tendency to hit the spacebar with their left thumb because their right hand is always on the mouse. Also, if you're use to hitting backspace in it's normal position with your right hand, using your right hand to press backspace on a split spacebar seems to make sense to me.

But yes, everything would be reprogrammable, so it doesn't matter.

What does matter is that I'd need some support for this 4x13 layout instead of the HyperMicro's 4x12 so that 7bit offers it as an option. While the HyperMicro's small size is cool, it's just a little bit _too_ small to be practical for everyday situations. It's missing some very required punctuation and there are only 9 keys on the home row, which means that one of your index fingers doesn't even have a button to press in the "middle" so you can't touchtype normally.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 21:25:57 »
im in whats the base layout were actually going with though?

 o and im a boss because i hit space with both thumbs and my right index finger!

Offline wetto

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 21:29:19 »
im in whats the base layout were actually going with though?

 o and im a boss because i hit space with both thumbs and my right index finger!

lol, I also do that and a lot, depending on what letters I'm typing.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 21:31:50 »
im in whats the base layout were actually going with though?

 o and im a boss because i hit space with both thumbs and my right index finger!

lol, I also do that and a lot, depending on what letters I'm typing.
and that is why the 4 spaces i had on my original phantom didnt work out for me at all i would always hit between the keys

Offline absyrd

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 01 November 2012, 05:12:53 »
Someone has been drooling over my sig (and taken it to the next level)!

My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 01 November 2012, 10:42:24 »
Ok, this is getting silly...

You can shrink and make infinite layers. But it only goes "so far" before it will seriously hamper productivity..

You could never code on this keyboard.. You can't even type smilies efficiently.. /thread :D

Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 01 November 2012, 12:00:10 »
A lot of people here aren't coders anyways, and if you're coding, you need to hold the shift modifier to get () and {} anyways, so what's the difference in holding Fn instead? :D The point of the thread was for tiny sized keyboards, and I think it's pretty neat to see how small you can make it without reducing the ability to do "regular typing" by removing some of the programming related symbols. At the same time, you can keep just as much functionality using the Fn layer if you really need to, which I really don't see as a problem since normal keyboards are already using a Shift layer to access many things.

Anyways, here's yet another design that I'm even more partial to, but I think that people would be less accepting of. Someone had mentioned symmetrical staggering in the DT thread earlier, so here's one at 0.25x unit staggering.



I think it makes very good use of the space and has things located pretty well for a sort of "default" layout, but you could easily change some things around in the firmware. I tried having 1x Ctrl - 1x Win -1x Alt on the bottom but I think this is a bit nicer. I would probably personally change Shift and Fn here, though I left it like this because I think that people would be afraid to change where Shift is.

For the most part it is identical to the one I posted above, except that the modifiers along the right and left sides have their sizes getting smaller as you go down instead of getting bigger. There's a 0.5x empty space between G and H. For those who just want a "regular" staggered keyboard layout, I would highly encourage you to give this a shot! Your right hand is tilted inward like this on a regular keyboard, this just changes the left hand to tilt inward rather than outward, something which makes far more sense! It's not hard to learn how to type like this at all either, I assure you. It feels quite natural.

Also, my apologies to 7bit for filling his thread with far too many wacky designs... I'm sure things would be much simpler without me. I do quite love this layout though.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 November 2012, 12:05:41 by oneproduct »
Layout: Colemak
Fastest typing speed: 131 WPM on typeracer, 136 WPM on 10fastfingers.
Daily driver: Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown with ergonomically weighted, lubed springs.
Ergo keyboards: Truly Ergonomic, Kinesis Advantage, Ergodox

Offline wetto

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 01 November 2012, 12:06:41 »
Kinda made me think there'd be a:



Right on the middle of it,  :p


Anyways, interesting design, though... What do you think about putting an Enter Key instead of " `~ " there? I know it's crazy, but it seems it would lower the time required for most people to press the enter key.
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 01 November 2012, 12:17:11 »
A trackpoint would definitely be pretty cool. I hadn't thought of that and not sure if the person who'd be doing the designs knows how to incorporate one.

Again since it's programmable you can reassign any of the keys as you like, this was just one more typical looking suggestion of mine.
Layout: Colemak
Fastest typing speed: 131 WPM on typeracer, 136 WPM on 10fastfingers.
Daily driver: Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown with ergonomically weighted, lubed springs.
Ergo keyboards: Truly Ergonomic, Kinesis Advantage, Ergodox

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 04 November 2012, 01:30:56 »
How plausable is this turning into a real project?

Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 11 November 2012, 17:56:32 »
ask 7bit :))
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 11 November 2012, 18:18:58 »
nice one sth

Offline sth

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 11 November 2012, 18:22:10 »
well for real he is the one running it. so take that into consideration. he ALWAYS has a lot on his plate (3 or so concurrent GBs? i lost track :P)
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 11 November 2012, 18:28:19 »
o i know im going to need switches from his switch GB soon.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 11 November 2012, 22:34:30 »
Alright, last idea. I added one column, so it's now 4x13, which makes it usable for Colemak and Dvorak people while still providing usefulness for Qwerty people and keeping it smaller than usual. Again, don't focus on where exactly everything is since the idea is that this is reprogrammable, just focus on the size of the keys and the physical layout to see what kind of options it provides.

Show Image


Notes:
Punctuation is grouped together. For European people `~ is available, for myself I'd replace it with hyphen probably.
1.5x - 1x - 1.5x mods on the bottom left which people enjoy and which lets them use part of their RGBY kits.
Arrows available in the top layer, similar to the Race or Deck keyboards.
All characters needed for "basic writing" with the exception of maybe hyphen and parentheses.
' " is pretty close to where it normally is.
Comma and period in their normal places, ? pretty close to normal.
Left shift that reaches to the edge of the board, which is better for gamers.
That circle is back in the middle... Not sure what to do about it. If I removed it then the space and backspace would become too large and need stabilizers. I'm sure 7bit is happier to see it there though for whatever he uses it for! Could be used for another layer or as an Alt Gr for European characters.
This one is the best so far, as it's the closest to providing Dvorak comptability. I'm just no interested in the rest. Why buy a KB if you can't use it in Dvorak?

Although the bottom row is one key too short, it should be pretty easy to swap Z and ; Both are little used enough, the switch would be easy.

Offline davkol

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 12 November 2012, 07:48:25 »
Anyways, here's yet another design that I'm even more partial to, but I think that people would be less accepting of. Someone had mentioned symmetrical staggering in the DT thread earlier, so here's one at 0.25x unit staggering.

Show Image

At first I thought "yet another keyboard with staggered layout, meh", but this would make me *very* interested.

Kinda made me think there'd be a:

Show Image


Right on the middle of it,  :p

And this would make it even better!

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: hyper micro and other layouts! go register your interest!!
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 12 November 2012, 18:22:20 »
one product do you have a bl
ank one so that I can make my own tweaks?