6 weeks! Not happy one bit. KBT/Vortex Race S L.E.

[rknize]

There is also the KS Mini, if it ever comes to fruition.

[SmallFry]

There is also the KS Mini, if it ever comes to fruition.

Soon™

[rowdy]

There is also the KS Mini, if it ever comes to fruition.

Soon™

SmallFry Soon™ ?

[SmallFry]

There is also the KS Mini, if it ever comes to fruition.

Soon™

SmallFry Soon™ ?

Yessir! Hahaha!

[Leslieann]

Well I attacked this from two directions...
First I ordered a custom set of keys from WASD tailored to work on the Race. OMG are those guys fast, I ordered a custom set Thursday night, they shipped Friday afternoon and will be here Monday. By the way, if anyone wants the layout that works for the Race, let me know, I have the pattern saved there, just change the color and you are set.

Unfortunately, after ordering those I was still annoyed at the whole situation, and just got more and more ticked off as time went on and went on the hunt for alternatives.

I ended up ordering a Pink and white Filco TKL, retail therapy FTW!!. I'm debating between the Vortex (grrrr) aluminum case which will be checked for squareness and cleaned up, or spending the big bucks and getting the MKC aluminum case, either would then be anodized or painted. The plate will be modded or replaced to allow switch changes, and then painted to match the case. Switches will be lubed and o-ringed with either Jailhouse blues or Ergo Clears, all of which I have on hand. Still to come is some color coordinated sleeving for the cable and a set of (RoW) Klaxons from the group buy.

Overkill? Absolutely! 


Edit - Just saw some more info on the Vortex case and as I feared, it's pretty much garbage, so at some point I will be investing in the MKC unless I can find an alternative. Vortex not only apparently "forgot"to include feet, but also managed to forget standoffs or even holes for standoffs for the PCB. 

[mashby]

I ended up ordering a Pink and white Filco TKL, retail therapy FTW!!. I'm debating between the Vortex (grrrr) aluminum case which will be checked for squareness and cleaned up, or spending the big bucks and getting the MKC aluminum case, either would then be anodized or painted. The plate will be modded or replaced to allow switch changes, and then painted to match the case. Switches will be lubed and o-ringed with either Jailhouse blues or Ergo Clears, all of which I have on hand. Still to come is some color coordinated sleeving for the cable and a set of (RoW) Klaxons from the group buy.

Overkill? Absolutely! 

And another one enters the fold! That paragraph speaks volumes that you've jumped in with both feet to mechanical keyboard customizations. I love it!  )

[tjcaustin]

I'm pretty sure the only way to get MKC anymore is to wait for one to pop up second-hand since he/they are trying to get into the custom keyboard creation stuff.

I do know that there should be a custom case getting built for the phantom soon (a custom pcb built to go into a filco case), so that's a possibility for a cool case, too. 

[TotalChaos]

I ended up ordering a Pink and white Filco TKL, retail therapy FTW!!. I'm debating between the Vortex (grrrr) aluminum case which will be checked for squareness and cleaned up, or spending the big bucks and getting the MKC aluminum case, either would then be anodized or painted. The plate will be modded or replaced to allow switch changes, and then painted to match the case. Switches will be lubed and o-ringed with either Jailhouse blues or Ergo Clears, all of which I have on hand. Still to come is some color coordinated sleeving for the cable and a set of (RoW) Klaxons from the group buy.

Overkill? Absolutely! 

And another one enters the fold! That paragraph speaks volumes that you've jumped in with both feet to mechanical keyboard customizations. I love it!  )

She invented her own switch a long time back.  She was already in up to her neck. 

[Leslieann]

And another one enters the fold! That paragraph speaks volumes that you've jumped in with both feet to mechanical keyboard customizations. I love it!  )

Honestly, all things considered, ordering a Filco is the most tame thing I have done.

Some here would call me a mad scientist, or just plain mad. 

I'm pretty sure the only way to get MKC anymore is to wait for one to pop up second-hand since he/they are trying to get into the custom keyboard creation stuff.

I do know that there should be a custom case getting built for the phantom soon (a custom pcb built to go into a filco case), so that's a possibility for a cool case, too.

I'm a patient person except when it comes to two things... Traffic and computers. I HATE waiting on anything computer related. Waiting on a group to agree on a design and actually produce something isn't something I'm good at. And yes, I know the MKC can be hard to find.

I started reconsidering the Vortex due to availability and cost, but came to the conclusion that in the amount of time it will take to make it decent, I could have earned more than enough to buy an MKC case and just gotten a better case.

[tjcaustin]

there have been times where I've thought about taking one of the drawing files and just paying extra for a one off, so I understand the impatience. I hate traffic, too

[Cindori]

Your keycaps from WASD won't be as good as original Race keycaps.

Race keycaps has a unique shape on their keycaps, with the top row being much higher then the rest.

There is no other keycap set that matches the original keycaps. WASD don't have molds for these profiles.
Normal keycaps like the one you ordered will be flat and more awkward then the original ones (imo). Basically it will become a noppoo.

Difference:




Right picture is my board. It's a LE Race with black keycaps and alu case. The black caps don't have the same problem as white ones.

[Leslieann]

Your keycaps from WASD won't be as good as original Race keycaps.

Race keycaps has a unique shape on their keycaps, with the top row being much higher then the rest.

There is no other keycap set that matches the original keycaps. WASD don't have molds for these profiles.
Normal keycaps like the one you ordered will be flat and more awkward then the original ones (imo). Basically it will become a noppoo.

Difference:

Right picture is my board. It's a LE Race with black keycaps and alu case. The black caps don't have the same problem as white ones.

Oh, I beg to differ.
The only way they could actually be worse is if they fell apart on day one, the chassis lost paint on day 3 and the keys by week 6.

Combine it with zero customer service, and lots of other problem reports and I really hesitate to give that company anything, much less buying another set of very similar keys, in a color I purposely avoided from said same company. I spent a lot of money on this to just watch it decompose while I watched, I'm not doing it again.

Yes, the top row will be a little lower than stock, but those keys aren't used as much and they will work just fine, in fact it will actually help to reduce hitting them on accident.

[iri]

are there any readily available kbt race analogs made by a saner company?

[rknize]

There is the Noppo Choc Mini, which is not backlit, and the Key Cool 84.

[tp4tissue]

Your keycaps from WASD won't be as good as original Race keycaps.

Race keycaps has a unique shape on their keycaps, with the top row being much higher then the rest.

There is no other keycap set that matches the original keycaps. WASD don't have molds for these profiles.
Normal keycaps like the one you ordered will be flat and more awkward then the original ones (imo). Basically it will become a noppoo.

Difference:

Right picture is my board. It's a LE Race with black keycaps and alu case. The black caps don't have the same problem as white ones.

Oh, I beg to differ.
The only way they could actually be worse is if they fell apart on day one, the chassis lost paint on day 3 and the keys by week 6.

Combine it with zero customer service, and lots of other problem reports and I really hesitate to give that company anything, much less buying another set of very similar keys, in a color I purposely avoided from said same company. I spent a lot of money on this to just watch it decompose while I watched, I'm not doing it again.

Yes, the top row will be a little lower than stock, but those keys aren't used as much and they will work just fine, in fact it will actually help to reduce hitting them on accident.

  I just bought that vortex aluminum chassis...  fingers crossed.

[Leslieann]

I got my WASD keys!
Looks great, they even threw in a keycap puller.

I got spares, (as you can see) because it was a 104 key set.  There was concern mentioned that the F keys would be too low, below is a side profile shot (you can also see how beatup the case paint is as well. I'm not a brute, it only takes a fingernail lightly dragging across it to scrape off paint.

I did a few things, if you look close, the font is small, I went size 7 font, what you cannot see is the secondary lasered markings, which have the media functions and such on them. You also may notice the FN key is short, I have normal height one as well, but I use a lower (row 1) key in order to reduce accidentally hitting it when I hit backspace as it opens the calculator when you do.

I had enough spare keys to make white, red, and purple esc, as well as a white and purple del and FN keys. By ordering a single extra key I was also able to make the purple wasd keys. You may note that the esc and del keys are narrow, they are, but I also have full width ones, unfortunately they sit lower like my FN key. This is really the only concession I had to make for keys, that and narrow width arrow keys, but you could order a wide set too.  I also got a set of purple arrow keys (blank, just like the white ones).

All in all, I'm quite happy with how these turned out. I no longer have backlit keys, but the keyboard still glows.
I did make one mistake on my order, I accidentally made the purple "D" key lower case, Considering how many changes I made, that's not bad.

Here is the pattern, I fixed the D key, you just need an extra S key for a extra set of WASD keys.

[Vortex-JC]

Hi Leslieann

Please PM me.

[Cindori]

I got my WASD keys!
Looks great, they even threw in a keycap puller.

I got spares, (as you can see) because it was a 104 key set.  There was concern mentioned that the F keys would be too low, below is a side profile shot (you can also see how beatup the case paint is as well. I'm not a brute, it only takes a fingernail lightly dragging across it to scrape off paint.

I did a few things, if you look close, the font is small, I went size 7 font, what you cannot see is the secondary lasered markings, which have the media functions and such on them. You also may notice the FN key is short, I have normal height one as well, but I use a lower (row 1) key in order to reduce accidentally hitting it when I hit backspace as it opens the calculator when you do.

I had enough spare keys to make white, red, and purple esc, as well as a white and purple del and FN keys. By ordering a single extra key I was also able to make the purple wasd keys. You may note that the esc and del keys are narrow, they are, but I also have full width ones, unfortunately they sit lower like my FN key. This is really the only concession I had to make for keys, that and narrow width arrow keys, but you could order a wide set too.  I also got a set of purple arrow keys (blank, just like the white ones).

All in all, I'm quite happy with how these turned out. I no longer have backlit keys, but the keyboard still glows.
I did make one mistake on my order, I accidentally made the purple "D" key lower case, Considering how many changes I made, that's not bad.

Here is the pattern, I fixed the D key, you just need an extra S key for a extra set of WASD keys.

That's not a fitting set. You have the wrong size on escape, arrow keys and delete...The top FN key seems to be the wrong height aswell.

If you are fine with it, then that's all that matters. But others should not be tricked into thinking that Race keycaps are replaced so easily, because they are not.

The Limited Edition Race is flawed. The paint on both case and keys are sh*t.
I was preaching this months ago.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36083.msg674731#msg674731

The normal Race is fine in terms of paint. I've been typing on the original black keycaps for 5 months now without sign of wear.

A Race with black original keycaps and alu casing of your choosing is the way to go for a perfect KBT Race experience.

[Leslieann]

That's not a fitting set. You have the wrong size on escape, arrow keys and delete...The top FN key seems to be the wrong height aswell.

If you are fine with it, then that's all that matters. But others should not be tricked into thinking that Race keycaps are replaced so easily, because they are not.

The normal Race is fine in terms of paint. I've been typing on the original black keycaps for 5 months now without sign of wear.

A Race with black original keycaps and alu casing of your choosing is the way to go for a perfect KBT Race experience.

I addressed almost all of those issues in my post, and I never said it was perfect:
The short FN key was done on purpose. I tend to nick the FN key when I hit backspace (which opens the calculator) and using a lower height FN key helps.
My last 5 keyboards or so have been black and I wanted something different, you can't throw a rock without hitting a black keyboard these days.

As for the short width keys, one of the reasons I liked the Race was the white pcb, using short width keys wasn't an issue for me as it allows the pcb to show, but you could easily get a set of normal width arrow keys from WASD for a few bucks, the full width esc and del key are the only keys that will either be short in height or width, one or the other. Both are keys you don't hit on a regular basis.


At any rate, Vortex has offered me a set of PBT caps as replacements.

[rootwyrm]

At any rate, Vortex has offered me a set of PBT caps as replacements.

Then why the hell didn't they do it right in the first place?

This kind of crap is beyond offputting. If you're shipping known defective or poor quality parts and I have to wait till YOU reach out to me because you provide NO method to reach you, why on EARTH would I not be warning everyone and their brother to stay the hell away?
I was giving serious consideration to a Vortex KBT ONE since it's one of the few keyboards out there with PBT keycaps. But how on earth am I supposed to trust it when we know they're shipping known defective parts? And what am I supposed to do when something goes wrong? Post all over Twitter and here and hope that maybe they'll get around to asking me to PM them since they provide no way to contact them? How many Race owners are out $50+ replacing keycaps they never should have had to, that COULDN'T reach Vortex, that DIDN'T get the same offer?

[Cindori]

If you want to complain to Vortex, get in line.

Like most other "excotic manufacturers" (korea,taiwan etc) they make awesome stuff but quality is not guaranteed.

If you get problems, you should contact your vendor first, as with any electronics product.

If you want to be safe when buying these special keyboards, you have to do your homework first.
There is a reason these things don't make it to real stores like best buy etc.

[rootwyrm]

Actually the reason they don't make it to retail is because they A) don't make enough quantity B) won't promise enough to the retailers. That's how it actually works.

Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic." It's about as exotic as Starbucks coffee. And when I'm paying that ridiculous premium, there is no excuse for making it impossible to contact the manufacturer, period. The premium is supposed to result in two things - a better product and better support. Name one other supposedly legitimate vendor with less accessibility.
You want to talk exotic? Fine, let's talk exotic. Exotic is a 1U sized slot-bus connected 4+1 power supply system where each unit is rated at 1650W with diverse ground on input. (I still don't even understand if/how/why that part matters.) Exotic is a Zippy/EMACS DPSM-6550F -48VDC PSU which carries a 3 year warranty, three email addresses, two US telephone numbers and two US locations for support and warranty service. THAT'S exotic. Or PC Power & Cooling (pre-OCZ buyout) who designed and built my custom WTX power supplies.

Claiming it's "exotic" is just making more pathetic apologies for a shady, unethical faux manufacturer. If I REALLY need to contact Ducky, Filco, Topre, Fujitsu, and so on they all have actual websites, actual contact information, and actual presences. To say nothing of manufacturers offering keyboards at lower prices like Unicomp, where you can get actually exotic, and actually reach support. I mean hell, KBtalKing themselves even has an actual web presence and contact method.

[Leslieann]

Then why the hell didn't they do it right in the first place?

This kind of crap is beyond offputting. If you're shipping known defective or poor quality parts and I have to wait till YOU reach out to me because you provide NO method to reach you, why on EARTH would I not be warning everyone and their brother to stay the hell away?
I was giving serious consideration to a Vortex KBT ONE since it's one of the few keyboards out there with PBT keycaps. But how on earth am I supposed to trust it when we know they're shipping known defective parts? And what am I supposed to do when something goes wrong? Post all over Twitter and here and hope that maybe they'll get around to asking me to PM them since they provide no way to contact them? How many Race owners are out $50+ replacing keycaps they never should have had to, that COULDN'T reach Vortex, that DIDN'T get the same offer?

I agree with you, it's frustrating.
With a little effort I think they could do quite well, the product looks nice. I really like the Race, it's a great little board in terms of shape and design, but it seems rather typical of Chinese manufacturing.

I know a few people who had stuff made over there and the impression I got was that it was like dealing with black market sharks/mafia. You either watch every move or be VERY specific about every single thing (even then you can get screwed). If you leave any opening for them to save a buck, they will take it, regardless of whether it destroys the product or not. It's very much buyer beware at the manufacturing level, and this applies to their suppliers as well.

When they get it right, they can make some fantastic stuff, but it takes a lot of effort and policing to do it.

real stores like best buy etc.

)

Actually major chains only carry a product if they see a demand for it first, not the other way around.

It's sort of a catch 22, how can you establish a demand if they don't see or know of your product, yet they have a hard time finding or knowing about your product without the store. The internet has helped, but the same rules still apply, unless they see demand for it directly, you won't get in.

Besides, you would probably be paying $300-400 for a Race keyboard from Worst Buy. They sell a $5 USB or HDMI cable for $50 and then complain when no one buys them.

[Cindori]

Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic."

A keyboard designed through collaboration on a chinese internet forum is excotic by my definition. (its not a ducky rebadge, lol)

Here's a dictionary definition of excotic:

of foreign origin or character; not native; introduced from abroad, but not fully naturalized or acclimatized
of a uniquely new or experimental nature

The bottom line is you should stick to Filco or Ducky if quality or the ability to RMA comes first to you.

[Sypius]

Same thing happened to me with the paint, I don't have any issues with the keycaps but from day two i noticed paint off the chassis, i scratched it with my fingernail to see if if it was easily scratchable and right away paint came off, not a big issue for me but pretty disappointing to see this.

[laffindude]

@ broken keycap. That is a KBT Pro, a Zippy board.

Vortex shot themselves in the foot. Oni really is a nice board (IMO best board for the price). How many people refused to buy it due to past screw ups by Vortex? If they took care of many of the QC issues when they cropped up, I don't think anyone would have reservations in recommending Vortex boards. People buy Pure and Poker because there is no alternative. There are many things they need to fix if they want to be a serious contender.

[Cindori]

The saddest thing is, they still make awesome designs.

I drooled over their Aluminum Filco Case for months when they released pictures on their facebook.

Then Mechanicalkeyboards.com got a delivery of it, and loads of people jumped on it (there is a thread about it in this forum)

I was going to order one too, but given Vortex track record I hesitated. A couple days later they were out of stock, and first people were getting their cases.

Turned out they arrived not only without feet, but weird holes (damages) and didn't fit very well.

[rootwyrm]

Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic."

A keyboard designed through collaboration on a chinese internet forum is excotic by my definition. (its not a ducky rebadge, lol)

Sorry, I meant Filco. Please stop spreading the lie that it is somehow an exotic from scratch custom design - it's not.

Here's some shots and then you compare the One to Ducky DK1008 and hey, identical key layout what? And PBT keycap capability. Oh, and Ducky uses PCB rear mounted ICs as well. No, really. (Note that the DK9008 has additional parts around the spacebar for LED support.)
Or did I miss someone else using that uncommon PCB layout?

And yes, the KBT Pro is a Zippy/EMACS BW-7050 as I already documented. Zippy will not hesitate to stand behind their products, and have always been very good to work with in my experience. So you should have no fear whatsoever buying a KBT Pro - it's a reliable keyboard and if it should break, warranty should not be a problem.

[mashby]

Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic."

A keyboard designed through collaboration on a chinese internet forum is excotic by my definition. (its not a ducky rebadge, lol)

Sorry, I meant Filco. Please stop spreading the lie that it is somehow an exotic from scratch custom design - it's not.

Here's some shots and then you compare the One to Ducky DK1008 and hey, identical key layout what? And PBT keycap capability. Oh, and Ducky uses PCB rear mounted ICs as well. No, really. (Note that the DK9008 has additional parts around the spacebar for LED support.)
Or did I miss someone else using that uncommon PCB layout?

And yes, the KBT Pro is a Zippy/EMACS BW-7050 as I already documented. Zippy will not hesitate to stand behind their products, and have always been very good to work with in my experience. So you should have no fear whatsoever buying a KBT Pro - it's a reliable keyboard and if it should break, warranty should not be a problem.

I'm a little bit ignorant on the subject, but I think the "exotic" reference is more for the compact keyboards like KBC Poker, KBT Pure and KBT Race. I'm not aware of any other manufacturer with the same layouts for those boards.

If I'm wrong, please tell me, because I would love to be able to source from someone other than Vortex. 

[Cindori]

Oh, and keyboards aren't "exotic." A $122 keyboard that only comes in one fixed configuration and is literally a rebadge of Ducky's low end is not "exotic."

A keyboard designed through collaboration on a chinese internet forum is excotic by my definition. (its not a ducky rebadge, lol)

Sorry, I meant Filco. Please stop spreading the lie that it is somehow an exotic from scratch custom design - it's not.

Here's some shots and then you compare the One to Ducky DK1008 and hey, identical key layout what? And PBT keycap capability. Oh, and Ducky uses PCB rear mounted ICs as well. No, really. (Note that the DK9008 has additional parts around the spacebar for LED support.)
Or did I miss someone else using that uncommon PCB layout?

And yes, the KBT Pro is a Zippy/EMACS BW-7050 as I already documented. Zippy will not hesitate to stand behind their products, and have always been very good to work with in my experience. So you should have no fear whatsoever buying a KBT Pro - it's a reliable keyboard and if it should break, warranty should not be a problem.

I never claimed KBT One was an excotic board. I barely know anything about KBT One. I said "excotic manufacturer".

The topic isnt even about that board. I was talking in regards to KBT Race. Does it even matter how I personally classify keyboard manufacturers? lol

[mashby]

Leslieann -- did you ever get replacement key caps from Vortex?

[uzoc]

I'm so tired of people going "blah blah go buy new keycaps" and making excuses for manufacturers.

These are not cheap keyboards. When you spend this kind of money on a keyboard, you are ostensibly paying for higher quality. Issues like this are what you get on a $30 keyboard, and are completely unacceptable on a $150 keyboard. Period. Especially when one considers that Unicomp has no problem producing vast quantities of PBT dye-sub keycaps and offers complete sets of them for $25. Yes, that's right, a full set of black on white PBT keycaps that last years even with my use for only $25.

I would be raising absolute hell with Vortex and probably disputing every penny of the charge if the keys wore out that quickly. But good luck raising hell with Vortex - I had a question about the KBT One and their entire 'presence' is a lame Facebook page. Your best route would probably be to take it up with whoever sold you the keyboard.

Keyboards in general is a very inexpensive hobby. Yelling you lungs out on a forum about a manufacturer won't solve the problems...

$50 will.

Letting everyone know, will help... us specially!

[Leslieann]

Leslieann -- did you ever get replacement key caps from Vortex?

They just cleared customs today.

[Leslieann]

Replacement caps arrived from Vortex today, my thanks  to Vortex and Vortex-JC for the keycaps.

[mashby]

Replacement caps arrived from Vortex today, my thanks  to Vortex and Vortex-JC for the keycaps.

I can't wait to hear what you think of them. Oh, and I hope you take lots of photos too!