I come back one day later to this thread and ... wow. It's like going to bed with Bruce Lee's physique and waking with Chris Farley's body. (May they both rest in peace.) Full on 'The John McLaughlin Group' with sth & co. as Eleanor Clift! So many enticing political tangents to choose from! Some
quick comments and then back on topic:
No time for my coruscatingly brilliant political insight? Fine. Skip down to line that reads:
*** END POLITICAL TANGENT HERE ***Hey now, I'm a libertarian. Tread lightly there.
Hey, me too! No wonder you've supplied cogent and useful remarks so consistently! (secret libertarian handshake) For me, there is not always a capital letter 'L' on my 'Libertarianism' cap (Completely free and open borders? No more crazy pills for you!) -- basically I ascribe to the Milton Friedman model of economics because it is readable (enjoyable, even -- if I won the lottery I would drop copies of 'Free to Choose' over black communities) and it actually jibes with my experiences. I believe (as Friedman did) that of all human liberties (sexual, economic, legal, etc.) that economic liberty is the 'base' liberty, from which all other liberties may be derived, if it is allowed. Give people the right to own property (but no other freedoms) and they will eventually pry the other freedoms into being. Seriously, read 'Free to Choose' --
http://www.amazon.com/Free-Choose-Statement-Milton-Friedman/dp/0156334607Economics is often referred to as 'The Dismal Science' but Friedman's book makes it truly enjoyable without skimping or 'dumbing it down'. For most people, the thought of reading about economics is about as appealing as receiving a lap dance from Hillary Clinton, but in this case you would be wrong. Awesome, awesome book written by a Nobel Prize winner.
I mean, really, what's the point? I'm not European. I don't plan on being European. So who gives a crap if they're socialists? They could be fascist anarchists, it still doesn't change the fact that I don't own a car.
I don't even know which budding young socialist said this, but what a beautifully honest remark. Who cares about the nitty gritty of how we organize ourselves economically -- do I, or do I
not get my car? What does your ownership of a car have to do with the utility of capitalism versus socialism? Probably the most beautifully honest
non sequitur (so far). That's why discussions of socialism interest me, the truth always slips out, given time.
Someone (guy with the frog avatar) pointed out that keyboardlover "probably has a well-cushioned life" -- as though that was somehow a black mark against him. I've been monitoring some of the other threads and I'm always surprised to see some people (generally the more collectivist-minded members) beating their breasts saying things like, "This hobby hasn't made me any money -- I've lost money on it!" -- again, as though that somehow entitles them to be an OG (original gangster? Their term, not mine. *snicker*) or that the fact that they've lost money is a badge of honor; proof of their superior sincerity and commitment.
What crap. I have a higher respect for the person who makes money off their hobby because (in my experience) you cannot make money unless you provide value to someone else. Hell, I have a higher respect for someone who tries (and fails) to make some money off their hobby because at least they had the stones to try. This is not an endorsement of fraud (selling crap to people), but of how markets work. Keyboardlover, I hope your life gets even more cushier and more comfortable.
watch it, i kill and eat libertarians for breakfast, during which i watch star trek.
Really? I like your swagger sth. Wait, didn't you essentially tap out of our earlier discussion with the 'Man. Look.' statement? Well, I'm a libertarian, so if you want to debate me in some fashion...
make it so! Is this the part where I bang my shoe on the table? Also, sth, throw me some punctuation once in a while? You're on a keyboard forum and you can't find the Shift key? (I keed, I keed!) For all I know you're tapping this all out on a iPod Touch. (damned corporations!)
*** END POLITICAL TANGENT HERE ***What was we talkin' 'bout? Oh right, how to strike a balance between commercial interests of members (and forum owners) while still fostering a non-commercial 'community'?
1. Acknowledge that they are not mutually exclusive and in fact are mutually beneficial to one another.
2. I think it matters how tactfully the forum owners and moderators handle advertisements on the forum. It doesn't have to be crass, or overbearing. Let advertisers know that they will not be getting free passes, soft-pedaled reviews of their products, etc. It should be like a journalism site -- no special consideration to advertisers. Avoid even the
appearance of a conflict of interest whenever possible.
3. The answer is (in my opinion)
more and
better communication, not less. After considering jdcarpe's idea about allowing more threadcrapping (negative feedback) I agree. But how to determine what is or is not useful threadcrap? I still think a karmic system could work. If users threadcrap recklessly it should eventually hurt them. If they threadcrap in a positive, useful way, it should help them. So if a user is just a business-hating anarcho-socialist who threadcraps anyone trying to sell for a profit, they would eventually end up being 'ignored' by the community, automatically. So -- more communication, but with auto-correcting consequences for misuse of that new communication. Positive feedback would also have positive consequences in this scenario.
4. I would consider asking community members to donate $5/year to the forum. I have definitely received better than $5 worth of knowledge and guidance and would drop that amount in a heartbeat. In fact, I'll do it today. If they do, give them a nifty profile badge. Or give them a nifty badge for donating stuff, or knowledge. Added five entries to the wiki -- badge time, woo! Get great feedback from buyers/sellers? Badge for you. We would be incentivizing positive interaction. Give the OG elites an OG badge -- whoops, now you can't -- they'll
know they're being mollified and instead be peeved. Sorry. Which leads to my next point.
5. Accept that you're not Not
NOT going to make everyone happy. Some people bear their unhappiness as a badge of honor, and there's no cure for their colic. Listen to them and then soothe them as best you can and move on. Owners and Admins probably know this already, but it never hurts to repeat it. Some people are always going to view business people in a negative light. Listen to them but please don't be ruled by them.
6. I've been to lots and lots of forums (even been banned from one) and run a small one (20 members) for a few years, and I'm really glad I found GH. The level of discourse here is very high. I'm glad that the mods, admins and owners are letting people vent their fears and frustrations because it's the right thing to do. One of the techniques I use in business when I'm faced with an angry, upset client is to let them vent and then
I thank them for complaining.This usually stops them dead in their tracks because most people don't thank people for complaining. They usually roll their eyes and hit them with some admin conflict-resolution language nonsense. I explain that for every person like them that complains there could be another ten that don't complain ... those other ten people just walk away, without a peep. I've lost those ten people as customers because they just accepted the problem as 'the way things are'. Then I explain that I don't want to lose them, or those ten people. So I sincerely thank them for bringing this problem to my attention -- and usually they become kittens. Sometimes they have nothing concrete to add, but the act of listening defuses them in any event.
So kudos to the admins, owners and mods of GH for listening, that bodes very well for GH's future. (It probably explains GH's present condition as well -- I don't believe in happy accidents.) I've also noticed that some of the member/entrepeneurs have taken a positive attitude towards threadcrapping. They want to be better, and that's also very heartening to see.
Also, someone please start a political discussion thread, if only to save this one!