Author Topic: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?  (Read 63901 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hyde

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2643
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • White Tofu Extraordinaire
Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 23:47:46 »
I finally tried Cherry ML today for the first time, I gotta say I kind of like it.  Just wondering why it's not popular amongst geekhack?

It felt like Topre Short Throw but without the cushioned bottom out.  Like it's a poor man's Topre Short Throw but for the price I still think it's nice  :)

I'm thinking to get one later when it's back in stock, seems to be out of stock everywhere.

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
Roccat Kone Pure  |  Logitech G203  |  Logitech G303  |  Logitech G302  |  Razer Naga  |  CM Storm Xornet  |  Razer Goliathus Mobile Stealth  |  Razer Goliathus Control  |  Artisan Hien  |  Artisan Hayate  |  Artisan Shiden

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1713
  • Location: South Korea

Offline reaper

  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3067
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 23:54:29 »

Just wondering why it's not popular amongst geekhack?

On the contrary, if you do a search on some old posts or been here long enough, you'll see that it is quite a popular switch.  Perhaps just not that many people have a chance to try it out.  I love mine so I bought 2!  lol

Here's one of them next to a Ducky.

« Last Edit: Thu, 21 February 2013, 23:58:06 by reaper »
Att fly är livet, att dröja, döden.
Din Eli

Offline Michael

  • Formerly Bro Caps
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4632
  • REEEeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 23:55:54 »
It's a nice to have for portability. If you lube them, they are pretty much perfect.


Offline TheSoulhunter

  • Posts: 1169
  • Location: Euroland
  • Thorpelicious!
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 00:26:55 »
- Short travel -> Bottoming out
- Just one variant (light tactile)
- Not many keyboard available
- PCB mount only
- No "custom" key-caps available
- Hitting em off-center can cause sticking

Offline RougeR

  • Posts: 224
  • Location: Channel islands, Jersey (sorta UK)
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 02:21:00 »
i got my first keyboard with them recently, i quite like them to (cherry d mini)
feels a bit like a short travel mx black to me.
Buckling spring warrior!

Offline Michael

  • Formerly Bro Caps
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4632
  • REEEeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 03:46:34 »
- Short travel -> Bottoming out
- Just one variant (light tactile)
- Not many keyboard available
- PCB mount only
- No "custom" key-caps available
- Hitting em off-center can cause sticking

Signature Plastics makes keycaps for ML switches.

Small amounts of lube makes this board immensely better. Less scratchy, no sticking.

These are just essentially short-throw MX browns.

Offline WhiteFireDragon

  • Posts: 2276
    • youtube
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 04:31:29 »
What's the closest comparison to mx switches? MX blues with 55g spring and thick hard O-rings to reduce travel distance?

Offline SmallFry

  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3887
  • Location: Wisconsin, USA
  • Leaving 6/15; returning 6/22 or so.
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 08:04:07 »
I want to make a HHML. The perfect travel board. How does one open a ln ML switch, BroCaps? I was interested in buying one to lube, but heard they are a PITA to get open and closed.

Offline TheSoulhunter

  • Posts: 1169
  • Location: Euroland
  • Thorpelicious!
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 09:33:18 »
- Short travel -> Bottoming out
- Just one variant (light tactile)
- Not many keyboard available
- PCB mount only
- No "custom" key-caps available
- Hitting em off-center can cause sticking

Signature Plastics makes keycaps for ML switches.

Small amounts of lube makes this board immensely better. Less scratchy, no sticking.

These are just essentially short-throw MX browns.

Ok, have to give the lubing a try...
But where are the ML BroCaps? ;P

Offline nullstring

  • Posts: 267
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 10:42:05 »
So, are these better or worse than scissor switches?

For the $16, seems like you could buy one or two as spares.

Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 10:44:27 »
How about going in an opposite direction - has anyone made a fullsize ML board with ANSI layout?

Offline Michael

  • Formerly Bro Caps
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4632
  • REEEeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 10:51:03 »

Offline SmallFry

  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3887
  • Location: Wisconsin, USA
  • Leaving 6/15; returning 6/22 or so.
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 10:51:46 »
How about going in an opposite direction - has anyone made a fullsize ML board with ANSI layout?
That could be interesting too.

Offline morpheus

  • Posts: 496
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 11:08:24 »
This is a video of Cherry ML's, not exactly the same one as the one in the Ebay link, but similar....


It actually does sound like a poor man's Topre.

Offline Hyde

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2643
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • White Tofu Extraordinaire
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 13:21:16 »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cherry-Slimline-Keyboard-83-Keys-USBPS2-Grey-G844100-/380553840843

knock yourself out.

Cool $15 and free shipping?  How did you find this?  This is crazy lolllll.  I'm gonna give it a shot  :D

Thanks for the link !!!

This is a video of Cherry ML's, not exactly the same one as the one in the Ebay link, but similar....


It actually does sound like a poor man's Topre.

lol yeah it's more noticeable because I actually tried Short Throw Topre side by side with this one at the Matias tour yesterday.  It felt pretty similar except the bottom out.  I'll probably try lubing when I get it too !
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 February 2013, 13:25:20 by Hyde »

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
Roccat Kone Pure  |  Logitech G203  |  Logitech G303  |  Logitech G302  |  Razer Naga  |  CM Storm Xornet  |  Razer Goliathus Mobile Stealth  |  Razer Goliathus Control  |  Artisan Hien  |  Artisan Hayate  |  Artisan Shiden

Offline sth

  • 2 girls 1 cuprubber
  • Posts: 3438
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 13:38:02 »

But where are the ML BroCaps? ;P

hey that was MY idea.
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline Hyde

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2643
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • White Tofu Extraordinaire
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 13:59:44 »
On the contrary, if you do a search on some old posts or been here long enough, you'll see that it is quite a popular switch.  Perhaps just not that many people have a chance to try it out.  I love mine so I bought 2!  lol

Here's one of them next to a Ducky.

Show Image


lol oh forgot to mention, I actually have been around for a while that's sorta why I'm wondering there's no love for Cherry MY switch.  A lot of the comments I read doesn't seem to favour it.

But I think I'm gonna give it a shot, and nice desk setup reaper !!!

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
Roccat Kone Pure  |  Logitech G203  |  Logitech G303  |  Logitech G302  |  Razer Naga  |  CM Storm Xornet  |  Razer Goliathus Mobile Stealth  |  Razer Goliathus Control  |  Artisan Hien  |  Artisan Hayate  |  Artisan Shiden

Offline sth

  • 2 girls 1 cuprubber
  • Posts: 3438
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 14:07:30 »
oh and hyde i dont know if it would be worth it but i have at least one ML board i'd be willing to sell you. shipping to canada would probably be around 20-30 though.
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline eth0s

  • Posts: 1137
  • Location: New York City
  • Peace & Love
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 14:18:06 »
Well I love the ML switches.

Here is my G84-4101SPAUS:



Bro Caps is right about the lube.  IMO, ML switches really do need lube, whereas, MX really do not (although it certainly doesn't hurt).
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 13:37:52 by eth0s »
I ♥ Click Clack.  I ♥♥♥ Bro Caps.

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1713
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 14:52:24 »
Do you have a pic of where to lube?

Offline reaper

  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3067
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 15:02:16 »
But I think I'm gonna give it a shot, and nice desk setup reaper !!!


Thanks and when I said been around for a while I meant back in '09, '10, etc.  :)
Att fly är livet, att dröja, döden.
Din Eli

Offline sth

  • 2 girls 1 cuprubber
  • Posts: 3438
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 15:12:02 »
Well I love the ML switches.

Here is my G84-4101SPAUS:

Show Image


Bro Caps is right about the lube.  IMO, ML switches really do need lube, whereas, MX really do not (although is certainly doesn't hurt).
nice, i haven't seen a lot of lighter colored spaus. mine's black on grey.
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline lazerpointer

  • Posts: 602
  • Location: 35°55'00.0"N 83°53'00.0"W
  • ya gotta stay phresh
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 15:24:10 »
So if I get this board and lube it, does that require removal of the switches from the PCB? Curious about the feel of these "lubed short-throw cherry browns" but don't wanna get into soldering and all that. Can you just dab it (silicon grease) in there with a q-tip?
i type, therefore i geekhack

Offline Michael

  • Formerly Bro Caps
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4632
  • REEEeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 15:27:05 »
So if I get this board and lube it, does that require removal of the switches from the PCB? Curious about the feel of these "lubed short-throw cherry browns" but don't wanna get into soldering and all that. Can you just dab it (silicon grease) in there with a q-tip?

Desoldering is not required to pop off the switch tops:


Offline lazerpointer

  • Posts: 602
  • Location: 35°55'00.0"N 83°53'00.0"W
  • ya gotta stay phresh
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 15:31:55 »
Sweet. Sounds like a deal for me.
i type, therefore i geekhack

Offline nar

  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Tokyo
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 16:11:33 »
If I had to compare it to a MX, it feels like a Ergo Clear that has most of the travel before the actuation point cut off. Also I believe there are full size Cherry ML keyboards, but those ones are harder to find.
Keyboards: Topre HE0100 | REALFORCE 103UB & 104UB-DK | FILCO Majestouch 2 Ai Cherry MX Blue | CHERRY G84-4101SPAUS

Offline Hyde

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2643
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • White Tofu Extraordinaire
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 16:22:11 »
oh and hyde i dont know if it would be worth it but i have at least one ML board i'd be willing to sell you. shipping to canada would probably be around 20-30 though.

Thanks dude I'll keep that in mind.  I realize the ebay link posted only ship to the states.  However Halverson said he got his for $16 (He also lives in Canada) so I'll ask him to see what's up then get back to you  :P

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
Roccat Kone Pure  |  Logitech G203  |  Logitech G303  |  Logitech G302  |  Razer Naga  |  CM Storm Xornet  |  Razer Goliathus Mobile Stealth  |  Razer Goliathus Control  |  Artisan Hien  |  Artisan Hayate  |  Artisan Shiden

Offline Halverson

  • Traitor Supreme
  • Posts: 6806
  • GIRLSHARK WIZBRO
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 16:27:30 »
oh and hyde i dont know if it would be worth it but i have at least one ML board i'd be willing to sell you. shipping to canada would probably be around 20-30 though.

Thanks dude I'll keep that in mind.  I realize the ebay link posted only ship to the states.  However Halverson said he got his for $16 (He also lives in Canada) so I'll ask him to see what's up then get back to you  :P

I just replied, I used a friend as a proxy who has multiple things for me. So shipping will be more, but for multiple things!

Offline metalliqaz

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4951
  • Location: the Making Stuff subforum
  • Leopold fanboy
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 16:31:46 »
I have two ML boards.  I think they are terrible.  No surprise to me that they don't get any love.  They have shorter travel then MX, they aren't nearly as smooth, and they don't have the flexibility for tactility/clicky/weight.  I think they are workable but I can't see enthusiasts getting behind them.

Offline Hyde

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2643
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • White Tofu Extraordinaire
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 16:37:52 »
I just replied, I used a friend as a proxy who has multiple things for me. So shipping will be more, but for multiple things!

lol ahhhhh I think I'll use chaumeow's friend as proxy then  :P

I have two ML boards.  I think they are terrible.  No surprise to me that they don't get any love.  They have shorter travel then MX, they aren't nearly as smooth, and they don't have the flexibility for tactility/clicky/weight.  I think they are workable but I can't see enthusiasts getting behind them.

Maybe I like linear switch so they don't feel too bad for me haha.  Though so far this MY switch seems to be very love and hate type switch.
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 February 2013, 16:40:30 by Hyde »

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
Roccat Kone Pure  |  Logitech G203  |  Logitech G303  |  Logitech G302  |  Razer Naga  |  CM Storm Xornet  |  Razer Goliathus Mobile Stealth  |  Razer Goliathus Control  |  Artisan Hien  |  Artisan Hayate  |  Artisan Shiden

Offline Demofly

  • Posts: 51
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 17:11:24 »
Is there an inexpensive ML switch keyboard with a normal layout?
i5 2300 - 7870Ghz - 8GB DDR3-1600 - 21.5" Acer 1080p
HPE 87 MX Brown + Ducky PBT (purchased from Flip!) | Ducky 1087XM Xiang Min Black ALPS clones.

Offline davkol

  •  Post Editing Timeout
  • Posts: 4994
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 17:37:33 »
- Short travel -> Bottoming out
- Just one variant (light tactile)
- Not many keyboard available
- PCB mount only
- No "custom" key-caps available
- Hitting em off-center can cause sticking

Just typing on mine (got it almost for free some time ago):

  • I don't bottom out, and when I do, it's very light... It's a bit similar to Cherry MX Clear.
  • It's not very light... actually, it feels quite stiff to me, but I'm used to reds.
  • Only G84-4100s are common, that's true. However, there are at least 96key ones available as well.
  • It's possible to get PBT ones, and spherical keycaps used to exist as well.
  • I agree they're sticky out of the box, and it can be quite annoying. That's why I haven't used mine for so long time, but if lube solves this problem...
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 February 2013, 18:01:23 by davkol »

Offline TheQsanity

  • Posts: 1165
  • SmallFry Lovin'
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 19:33:16 »
We like spend da monay.
SmallFry! <3

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5040
  • Location: Koriko
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 19:44:09 »
- stiff
- scratchy
- short throw
- not contoured kb (G84)
- kb (G84) has ugly layout
- kb (G84) has keys too small
🍉

Offline Hyde

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 2643
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • White Tofu Extraordinaire
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 23:24:26 »
lol ok I ordered anyway, can't go wrong with $16 really.

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
Roccat Kone Pure  |  Logitech G203  |  Logitech G303  |  Logitech G302  |  Razer Naga  |  CM Storm Xornet  |  Razer Goliathus Mobile Stealth  |  Razer Goliathus Control  |  Artisan Hien  |  Artisan Hayate  |  Artisan Shiden

Offline poxeclipse

  • Posts: 171
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Hit me with music ... yes, me friend
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 10:11:01 »
I used the G84-4100 for 10 years, maybe more. They had printed legends and after a while they started to fade out. Then I got some with laser etched keycaps, which are very nice. You can find sublimated caps, last year were lots of them on eBay. I have now 6 of them, but didn't use them in the last year, after I switched to Cherry and model f. I think that lubrication does increase the quality of typing, I might do it to see how it feels.

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 10:36:33 »
Cherry MY feels to me exactly as someone once put it: "typing on wet newspapers." Yuck.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline uzoc

  • Posts: 210
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 10:59:18 »
I used the G84-4100 for 10 years, maybe more. They had printed legends and after a while they started to fade out. Then I got some with laser etched keycaps, which are very nice. You can find sublimated caps, last year were lots of them on eBay. I have now 6 of them, but didn't use them in the last year, after I switched to Cherry and model f. I think that lubrication does increase the quality of typing, I might do it to see how it feels.

Where to get the keycaps, any tips, search terms, models?

Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 11:03:19 »
Cherry MY feels to me exactly as someone once put it: "typing on wet newspapers." Yuck.

In the history of Geekhack/Deskthority - has there been a member who liked MY's?

Offline morpheus

  • Posts: 496
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 13:12:33 »
I just ordered this too, seriously can't go wrong with that low price.

Offline morpheus

  • Posts: 496
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 13:23:02 »
Oh, and I just found this online...Cherry ML with a different layout

http://www.touchwindow.com/c/CherryG84-4400SmallKeyboards.html


Offline eth0s

  • Posts: 1137
  • Location: New York City
  • Peace & Love
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 14:15:28 »
Cherry MY feels to me exactly as someone once put it: "typing on wet newspapers." Yuck.

In the history of Geekhack/Deskthority - has there been a member who liked MY's?

Why we talking about MY switch in a thread about ML? 

ML is a totally different switch.  It is it's own thing.  It feels different than MX and MY.  It's another switch to try, but unlike MY, ML doesn't suck.  Is it as good as MX?  I dunno, but it's certainly different.  And a lubed ML is very nice.  Some people will like the short throw, some will not.  Different does not mean better, it means different. 

Now, as for the G84-4400, it has a trackball, so you don't need a mouse, which can be a huge deal, when you need to have a keyboard, but have no room for a mouse.  But for some crazy reason, Cherry did not put any height-adjustable feet on the bottom, so it lays flat only. 

The G84 series (i.e., ML keyboard series) was designed to be used in places with very limited space for a keyboard, like rack mounted servers, reception areas, doctor's offices, factories, auto garages, etc.  And IMO are still some of the best space-saver layouts of any keyboard.  You get a full set of keys in a very compact space (with limited need to use the function layer).  Once you get used to typing on it (like after about 20-30 minutes) it really works great, and the short throw is awesome.  However, the feel of the keys can be a bit stiff, and even gritty, or downright sticky at the top of the keystroke, hence the need for the lube.  Is this the perfect keyboard for a keyboard n00b?  No.   However, any serious keyboard collector should own at least one ML switch keyboard, IMO.  Contrary to what was said above, this is exactly the kind of keyboard that a true keyboard enthusiast should be interested in.  It has everything a keyboard aficionado should want:  ML switch, compact form factor with limited function layer, interesting look, flat keycaps, optional Lasered POM or Dye Sub PBT keycaps, and above all else, very affordable prices.  I wouldn't recommend this as your daily driver keyboard however, unless you have very limited space, or unless you need to carry your keyboard from place to place, in which case a G84-4101, or better still a G84-4400, might be perfect for you.
I ♥ Click Clack.  I ♥♥♥ Bro Caps.

Offline TheQsanity

  • Posts: 1165
  • SmallFry Lovin'
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 15:22:03 »
They are POS keyboards. They are meant for cash registers or public computers.  Being tied down. 


There was one in the local khol's(clothing store)  for rewards or employment or something.
SmallFry! <3

Offline metalliqaz

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4951
  • Location: the Making Stuff subforum
  • Leopold fanboy
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:32:38 »
I have the equivalent of the 4400 on my rack-mount KVM and I can tell you that the trackball is 100% ****.  If you get it don't expect to use it.

Offline uzoc

  • Posts: 210
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 17:06:47 »
I have the equivalent of the 4400 on my rack-mount KVM and I can tell you that the trackball is 100% ****.  If you get it don't expect to use it.

Yeah, same as my old job... I'm pretty sure they are using old mechanical (wheels and cogs) on that trackball, and being upside down (gunk nightmare). No LED/Laser for you!

Offline Tarzan

  • formerly known as Greystoke
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 1304
  • Location: US: Virginia
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 19:58:33 »
I was out scrounging my local (greater-DC area) used computer sources, and found a ML4400.  Lady let me have it for $2, as it's missing the right directional key.  It is... different to type on it.  Feel a lot nicer than a rubber dome keyboard, quite tactile, but I don't know if I like the short key throw, and the idiosyncratic layout.  I tried the trackball, but apart from some light typing, I can't see using it for very long, missing my mouse already.

I might try the lube option and see if that improves the feel.  I ordered one of the white ones from the Ebay store, it should be here next week, maybe the non-trackball layout is more workable.


Offline poxeclipse

  • Posts: 171
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Hit me with music ... yes, me friend
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:09:04 »
I used the G84-4100 for 10 years, maybe more. They had printed legends and after a while they started to fade out. Then I got some with laser etched keycaps, which are very nice. You can find sublimated caps, last year were lots of them on eBay. I have now 6 of them, but didn't use them in the last year, after I switched to Cherry and model f. I think that lubrication does increase the quality of typing, I might do it to see how it feels.

Where to get the keycaps, any tips, search terms, models?
It seems to be very hard to find keycaps for ML. Signature Plastics might have some, but they were too expensive, iirc. In the end, I preferred  to buy a new keyboard with laser etched caps, which were very resistant, compared to the printed ones.
There are other keyboards which use ML switches, and they could be used as donors, e.g. https://plus.google.com/photos/113845661925823397356/albums/5600865859261069921?banner=pwa&sqi&sqsi.
I saw a laptop with ML switches, but I don't recall what model was.

Offline uzoc

  • Posts: 210
Re: Why no love for Cherry ML Switch?
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:16:30 »
I used the G84-4100 for 10 years, maybe more. They had printed legends and after a while they started to fade out. Then I got some with laser etched keycaps, which are very nice. You can find sublimated caps, last year were lots of them on eBay. I have now 6 of them, but didn't use them in the last year, after I switched to Cherry and model f. I think that lubrication does increase the quality of typing, I might do it to see how it feels.

Where to get the keycaps, any tips, search terms, models?
It seems to be very hard to find keycaps for ML. Signature Plastics might have some, but they were too expensive, iirc. In the end, I preferred  to buy a new keyboard with laser etched caps, which were very resistant, compared to the printed ones.
There are other keyboards which use ML switches, and they could be used as donors, e.g. https://plus.google.com/photos/113845661925823397356/albums/5600865859261069921?banner=pwa&sqi&sqsi.
I saw a laptop with ML switches, but I don't recall what model was.

Ok, thanks.