Author Topic: Ergodox vs HHKB! (Read 7931 times)

Icte · « **on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 04:39:52 »

Haven't seen a single thread comparing these but for you who own both..

What do YOU prefer? HHKB with Topre switches (be it Pro 2 or JP) or a sweet ergonomic Ergodox?

k thx bai

yasuo · « **Reply #1 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 04:40:58 »

uTron ergonomic with topre switch

)

Icte · « **Reply #2 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 04:50:26 »

Quote from: yasuo on Mon, 19 August 2013, 04:40:58

uTron ergonomic with topre switch )

Y u no like ErgoDox??!

tp4tissue · « **Reply #3 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:12:58 »

The Ergodox layout is superior to anything from the staggered Qwerty genre.

This is a fact.

Staggered qwerty is antiquated. Relative to what "could-be", relative to the ergodox, an HHKB is severely FLAWED.

yasuo · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:15:00 »

I prefer Utron than ergo dox for the thumb key but for me

Icte · « **Reply #5 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:16:22 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:12:58

Nothing to be compared.

Topre refers to the jap rubber dome switch

Ergodox refers to an ergonomic layout

One is a layout, the other is a switch..

Exactly!

Let me redefine the question: the Cadillac of Ergonomics vs the Rolls Royce of Switches?

tp4tissue · « **Reply #6 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:16:55 »

Quote from: yasuo on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:15:00

I prefer Utron than ergo dox for the thumb key but for me

Utron has most of what the Ergodox offers. However, the staggared column being the one remaining throwback to our caveman days is a glaring flaw in an otherwise good keyboard.

rowdy · « **Reply #7 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:18:44 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:12:58

The Ergodox layout is superior to anything from the staggered Qwerty genre.

This is a fact.

Staggered qwerty is antiquated. Relative to what "could-be", relative to the ergodox, an HHKB is severely FLAWED.

But are Topre switches superior to whatever you can get in an Ergo Dox?

For some the lightness of the switches might be more important than splitting the keyboard into two halves and distributing the halves across your desk.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #8 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:19:15 »

Quote from: Icte on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:16:22

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:12:58
Nothing to be compared.

Topre refers to the jap rubber dome switch

Ergodox refers to an ergonomic layout

One is a layout, the other is a switch..
Exactly!

Let me redefine the question: the Cadillac of Ergonomics vs the Rolls Royce of Switches?

Topre is a good switch.. The only problem has been replacement parts.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #9 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:20:22 »

Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:18:44

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:12:58
The Ergodox layout is superior to anything from the staggered Qwerty genre.

This is a fact.

Staggered qwerty is antiquated. Relative to what "could-be", relative to the ergodox, an HHKB is severely FLAWED.

But are Topre switches superior to whatever you can get in an Ergo Dox?

For some the lightness of the switches might be more important than splitting the keyboard into two halves and distributing the halves across your desk.

The switch is a preference issue.. while the ergonomics of the layout is not.

I can't argue with you about the shape of my hand FITTING the shape of an ergodox, and not the HHKB.

However, the switch itself mx vs topre will perform equally well in either layout "AS A SWITCH"..

The superior final product is still handedly the ERGODOX....

rowdy · « **Reply #10 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:33:45 »

Actually I'm starting to think this thread is just trollin' away ...

insilica · « **Reply #11 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:41:37 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:12:58

The Ergodox layout is superior to anything from the staggered Qwerty genre.

This is a fact.

Staggered qwerty is antiquated. Relative to what "could-be", relative to the ergodox, an HHKB is severely FLAWED.

I can't help but agree

.

Hoping to join the non-staggered club with an ergoGP

Larken · « **Reply #12 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:45:23 »

should wait for daerid to chime in. He was a topre guy until the ergodox made him give it up.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #13 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:46:05 »

Quote from: insilica on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:41:37

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:12:58
The Ergodox layout is superior to anything from the staggered Qwerty genre.

This is a fact.

Staggered qwerty is antiquated. Relative to what "could-be", relative to the ergodox, an HHKB is severely FLAWED.

I can't help but agree .

Hoping to join the non-staggered club with an ergoGP

I like that people are developing split-ergonomica further,

Can't say I like the way the ergogp is, because if anything the thumb buttons should be higher.

If indeed you'd need the thumb buttons to be lower, than it is likely because the user is sitting too low in his chair.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #14 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:46:41 »

Quote from: Larken on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:45:23

should wait for daerid to chime in. He was a topre guy until the ergodox made him give it up.

He was a Topre fanboi, before ergodox made him see the light"

yasuo · « **Reply #15 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:50:46 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:16:55

Utron has most of what the Ergodox offers. However, the staggared column being the one remaining throwback to our caveman days is a glaring flaw in an otherwise good keyboard.

uTron is symmetric staggared not old asymetric staggared is that advancement

like this if you do not know,see left side

but i prefer matrix like ergo dox

tp4tissue · « **Reply #16 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:52:24 »

The wide release of the Ergodox is quite the psychological phenomenon here in the Keyboard community.

We have people who has spent thousands of dollars in staggered qwerty..

It's a similar situation to people who buy "extreme" branded computer processors @ $1000 each. Only to find out not so long after, a new processor comes out, is much FASTER, and much CHEAPER.

It is very hard for some people to "give it up" for example the Kmac crowd..

The KMAC was great for its time.. But at ANYPRICE a kmac is inferior to the ERGODOX...

You can attempt to sell me an intel extreme pentium 4 for $50, I would not buy it, because I can get something faster for the same $50 dollars.

Larken · « **Reply #17 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:53:28 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:46:41

Quote from: Larken on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:45:23
should wait for daerid to chime in. He was a topre guy until the ergodox made him give it up.

He was a Topre fanboi, before ergodox made him see the light"

you were a average, adequate troll once upon a time. then the ergodox gave you a purpose and made you a super troll.

In all honesty, I actually groaned a little when you first got yours; now you can troll away without any risk of RSI. Dammit.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #18 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:54:39 »

Quote from: Larken on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:53:28

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:46:41
Quote from: Larken on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:45:23
should wait for daerid to chime in. He was a topre guy until the ergodox made him give it up.

He was a Topre fanboi, before ergodox made him see the light"

you were a average, adequate troll once upon a time. then the ergodox gave you a purpose and made you a super troll.

In all honesty, I actually groaned a little when you first got yours; now you can troll away without any risk of RSI. Dammit.

can't touch this....

rowdy · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 06:06:02 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:46:41

Quote from: Larken on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:45:23
should wait for daerid to chime in. He was a topre guy until the ergodox made him give it up.

He was a Topre fanboi, before ergodox made him see the light"

And now he's an Ergo Dox fanboi?

tp4tissue · « **Reply #20 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 06:11:06 »

Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 19 August 2013, 06:06:02

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:46:41
Quote from: Larken on Mon, 19 August 2013, 05:45:23
should wait for daerid to chime in. He was a topre guy until the ergodox made him give it up.

He was a Topre fanboi, before ergodox made him see the light"

And now he's an Ergo Dox fanboi?

The ergodox layout is not a preference.. so you cannot be a fanboi...

it is in absolute, that the ergodox is a better keyboard.

vatin · « **Reply #21 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 06:27:03 »

Agreed. Matrix layout is inherently superior period.

Edit: terribly sorry. I meant to say columnar layout. Where column are streigh but roll staggered, that makes the ergodox better than hhkb.

yasuo · « **Reply #22 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 06:33:43 »

Yes,Also aggred
1.Matrix Column
2.Symmetric Staggered
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
1000000000.Old asymetric typewriter

davkol · « **Reply #23 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 07:29:12 »

...and ErgoDox is free as in freedom.

yasuo · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 07:30:50 »

No, The Datahand free in freedoom

)

davkol · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 07:36:58 »

Since when? AFAIK it isn't, never was a probably never will be.

yasuo · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 07:43:25 »

Quote from: davkol on Mon, 19 August 2013, 07:36:58

Since when? AFAIK it isn't, never was a probably never will be.

JK

IMO Datahand for RSI not Typist true or not?

)

GeeGee · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:25:25 »

Hey,
can someone explain to me why the ErgoDox is so good?
I mean, I've looked into it but I don't seem to get it, what is so good about it.
Thanks

Michael · « **Reply #28 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:36:57 »

Despite what tp4trolling has been saying, it's still a matter of preference, and what you are comfortable typing on.

esoomenona · « **Reply #29 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:41:53 »

Quote from: Bro Caps on Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:36:57

tp4trolling

No matter how much we try to wipe it from the forums, all it does is smear...

tricheboars · « **Reply #30 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:52:43 »

love that uTron. too bad it is like $530 bucks. that layout would take some time for me to adjust as well. someday...

davkol · « **Reply #31 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:56:19 »

Quote from: GeeGee on Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:25:25

Hey,
can someone explain to me why the ErgoDox is so good?
I mean, I've looked into it but I don't seem to get it, what is so good about it.
Thanks

It's superior to almost any keyboard in terms of layout—it's symmetric, split and adjustable.
Unlike the very few existing keyboards that can compete with it in terms of layout, it's free as in freedom.
Unlike other open ergo keyboard projects (such as key64), it's production-ready (you can buy a kit @ Massdrop).

GeeGee · « **Reply #32 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 12:39:02 »

Quote from: davkol on Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:56:19

Quote from: GeeGee on Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:25:25
Hey,
can someone explain to me why the ErgoDox is so good?
I mean, I've looked into it but I don't seem to get it, what is so good about it.
Thanks

It's superior to almost any keyboard in terms of layout—it's symmetric, split and adjustable.
Unlike the very few existing keyboards that can compete with it in terms of layout, it's free as in freedom.
Unlike other open ergo keyboard projects (such as key64), it's production-ready (you can buy a kit @ Massdrop).

Thanks for your explaination!

vatin · « **Reply #33 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 19:02:32 »

Quote from: Bro Caps on Mon, 19 August 2013, 11:36:57

Despite what tp4trolling has been saying, it's still a matter of preference, and what you are comfortable typing on.

Please tell me I'm not the only one to notice that human finger doesn't move in zigzag.

MOZ · « **Reply #34 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 02:00:38 »

You can't compare the two, it is a personal preference, and they are poles aprts.

Although I do think that the ErgoGP has improved on the ErgoDox and one day if we have a ErgoGP with Topre, we might just have the perfect board, but the fact that there will ever be a perfect board is not possible.

Mamajam · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 07:39:21 »

I plan on ordering an Ergodox before the current massdrop expires. I own a HHKB as well, and use it every day for work. Despite how much I love my HHKB and love topres, if you are only getting one and have to make a choice then I think the Ergodox is the best one.

Icte · « **Reply #36 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 07:48:44 »

Quote from: Mamajam on Tue, 20 August 2013, 07:39:21

I plan on ordering an Ergodox before the current massdrop expires. I own a HHKB as well, and use it every day for work. Despite how much I love my HHKB and love topres, if you are only getting one and have to make a choice then I think the Ergodox is the best one.

Incredible.. You created an account to respond to me? I salute you!

But if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate why you think that one should pick Ergodox over HHKB?

Mamajam · « **Reply #37 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 09:01:59 »

Quote from: Icte on Tue, 20 August 2013, 07:48:44

Quote from: Mamajam on Tue, 20 August 2013, 07:39:21
I plan on ordering an Ergodox before the current massdrop expires. I own a HHKB as well, and use it every day for work. Despite how much I love my HHKB and love topres, if you are only getting one and have to make a choice then I think the Ergodox is the best one.
Incredible.. You created an account to respond to me? I salute you!

But if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate why you think that one should pick Ergodox over HHKB?

I actually had an account for a week, and I have been lurking for a lot longer

If you are looking for portability, or already know that that topre switches are you absolute favorite then by all means pick up the HHKB. It is an amazing board and you will be extremely happy.

However, and please consider the fact that I have yet to actually use the Ergodox yet; the superior modern layout, and the freedom to customize it anyway you want (short of using topre switches), and the sub $300 price point, you just seem to get way more for the money. I plan on making it a permeant fixture in my home office.

On a purely philosophical level, I believe that it is important to support open source platforms, and especially an enthusiast driven development like the Ergodox. The fact that they build a superior product is just gravy on the top.

MJ45 · « **Reply #38 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 11:32:38 »

The best thing is do it the GEEKHACK way buy both!

Mamajam · « **Reply #39 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 12:00:32 »

Quote from: MJ45 on Tue, 20 August 2013, 11:32:38

The best thing is do it the GEEKHACK way buy both!

I agree, it's like asking me which one of my kids I love more.

GeeGee · « **Reply #40 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 12:55:32 »

Quote from: Mamajam on Tue, 20 August 2013, 12:00:32

Quote from: MJ45 on Tue, 20 August 2013, 11:32:38
The best thing is do it the GEEKHACK way buy both!

I agree, it's like asking me which one of my kids I love more.

LOL
Geekhack money.

Findecanor · « **Reply #41 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 13:42:08 »

Quote from: vatin on Mon, 19 August 2013, 06:27:03

Agreed. Matrix layout is inherently superior period.

When I use the word "Matrix layout", I think of an "ortho-linear" layout with 90° between rows and columns. There is a great example of such a keyboard series: the TypeMatrix.
I don't think that these layouts are good at all, because they don't take into account that different fingers have different lengths.

I would classify the ErgoDox as having a "Columnar layout", or "Column-oriented" layout as opposed to the "Row-oriented" QWERTY and Symmetric Stagger.
I think, though, that the ErgoDox is not columnar enough. The column offsets should be larger to better fit the human hand. There have been plenty of other keyboards with columnar layout that have been better at this.

Actually, if you change your keycaps to be circular instead of square, you don't see that much difference between columnar and symmetric stagger for the middle, ring and pinky columns. It is mostly the index finger columns that are different.

Quote from: vatin on Mon, 19 August 2013, 19:02:32

Please tell me I'm not the only one to notice that human finger doesn't move in zigzag.

The Japanese-layout model of HHKB is not zigzag.

rowdy · « **Reply #42 on:** Tue, 20 August 2013, 18:31:48 »

Quote from: GeeGee on Tue, 20 August 2013, 12:55:32

Quote from: Mamajam on Tue, 20 August 2013, 12:00:32
Quote from: MJ45 on Tue, 20 August 2013, 11:32:38
The best thing is do it the GEEKHACK way buy both!

I agree, it's like asking me which one of my kids I love more.
LOL
Geekhack money.

Wallethack.

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Author Topic: Ergodox vs HHKB! (Read 7931 times)