How do I get the best quality from CD rips?

[demik]

As I'm getting into the audiophile world (well at least the entry level of it since stuff is crazy expensive) I want my music to sound the best it can. I've seen FLAC/Lossless/V0 thrown around and I'm not 100% sure what any of it means. But I do have a ton of CDs that I want to rip onto my computer to use with my phone/ipod, so what do I need to make that happen? Is WMP/iTunes all I need? Will they extract the best possible quality from the CDs? Does it matter? Should I turn back before it's too late? How long with TP be banned this time?

tl;dr want to rip cds and get best possible music onto digital format for phone/mp3 player

[kmiller8]

what.cd has a pretty good site dedicated to educating their users before they become users.

http://www.whatinterviewprep.com/

All the "knowledge" ones should be pretty helpful.

E: nvm, they changed a lot of stuff on that site and really dumbed it down. But as for ripping, most people use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) to rip their CDs to flacs and then use some other encoder to get it to a mp3 (v0 or v2 like you mentioned)

[demik]

thanks!

i had a what.cd account but then it stopped working.

and i was within their crazy seeding requirements

[Photekq]

was just about to suggest what.cd..

they have a great guide on how to get the highest quality rips using 'exact audio copy', but you need to be a member to read it.

i'm sure there are other guides on how to do it outside of what.cd

i do have a spare invite, or i could pm you the lengthy guides. let me know.

[kmiller8]

Oh look, I found a mirrored version of the what.cd guide

http://filesharingtalk.com/threads/435208-Installing-configuring-and-ripping-with-Exact-Audio-Copy-%28EAC%29

[demik]

guide would be cool. i'd love an invite but i try to buy my music now (crazy, right? i get looks when i buy CDs at best buy )

ah **** thanks miller!

[kmiller8]

Also found these two guides for converting from flac

One using foobar2000 (free I think)

More

One using dbpoweramp (cost money I think)

More

[esoomenona]

Exact Audio Copy. That's what the what guide helps you set up.

LAME mp3 v0 for conversion using foobar.

[Photekq]

Oh look, I found a mirrored version of the what.cd guide

http://filesharingtalk.com/threads/435208-Installing-configuring-and-ripping-with-Exact-Audio-Copy-%28EAC%29

yeah, that's the one. go nuts.

Also found these two guides for converting from flac

One using foobar2000 (free I think)

More

Show Image

One using dbpoweramp (cost money I think)

More

Show Image

foobar is 100% free, and an awesome program for playing flacs. would highly recommend it over other alternatives such as winamp.

[kmiller8]

guide would be cool. i'd love an invite but i try to buy my music now (crazy, right? i get looks when i buy CDs at best buy )

ah **** thanks miller!

I wish I could afford music, until then I'm stuck with podcasts, random mixes, and mashups.

[demik]

dude i love podcasts. podcasts + npr make my work day go by quick

[kmiller8]

personally, I follow a few tech ones (Ars, Anandtech, TWiCH, and What the Tech) some uber-popular ones (Planet Money, Freakonomics, Radiolab, 99% invisible), and then the Hospital Podcast.

I probably listen to 20h+ of podcasts a week o.o

[Photekq]

god, i haven't listened to the hospital podcast in so long. thanks for that, it takes me back. i will have to revisit it soon

[kmiller8]

god, i haven't listened to the hospital podcast in so long. thanks for that, it takes me back. i will have to revisit it soon

duuuuude, these past few weeks have been AMAZING. Etherwood bro, Etherwood... I just want to sit in my car and let the bass rattle me to sleep.

[Photekq]

god, i haven't listened to the hospital podcast in so long. thanks for that, it takes me back. i will have to revisit it soon

duuuuude, these past few weeks have been AMAZING. Etherwood bro, Etherwood... I just want to sit in my car and let the bass rattle me to sleep.

i think the last one i heard was S.P.Y ( maybe this one?

) but after that i kind of forgot about it.. i haven't heard any hospital in a long time either if i'm honest. i hope it hasn't changed too much as a label, and i hope i can enjoy the more recent podcasts that i've missed!

[IvanIvanovich]

If you are going to want to use them on idevices, don't bother with flac. Go with alac (it's every bit as good) instead as alac is natively supported unlike flac. While there are ways to get flac on idevices, it's a lot more effort and involves some extra steps since you can't sync the normal way with unsupported file type. alac files are huge, so better get used to not loading as much music for on the go.

[demik]

personally, I follow a few tech ones (Ars, Anandtech, TWiCH, and What the Tech) some uber-popular ones (Planet Money, Freakonomics, Radiolab, 99% invisible), and then the Hospital Podcast.

I probably listen to 20h+ of podcasts a week o.o

hm lets see i listened to

Ari Shaffir
Wait wait don't tell me (in case I missed the show on Saturdays)
Doug Loves Movies (even though I cannot stand his terrible weed humor)
Comedy Bang Bang
Comedy Button
HowStuffWorks
Nerdist (though i've unsubbed because hardwick's constant "hey im a nerd and i love doctor who" also got annoying and he's just not funny.. but he had great people on as guests. also his 2 co-hosts were terrible)
You Made It Weird
The Indoor Kids
WTF (possibly my favorite podcast, hearing a different side of comedians was great.. but his constant "hey im jewish" **** got boring and irritating)
We're Alive

Bunch of others also, but I started to cut them down if they stopped updating as often.

[HoffmanMyster]

In case you're interested in some alternatives to those already mentioned, I use Trader's Little Helper to re-encode from flac after I rip if I'm interested in converting to MP3 or whatever.  I opt to not do any encoding in foobar, for whatever reason.

[Moosecraft]

Foobar2k is great, its equalizer is also pretty good. But since Wimp is now offering lossless streaming maybe you should look into that.

[fohat.digs]

Since hard drive space is so cheap, you can buy a $100 hard drive and rip your CDs into "native" .WAV files and burn them back directly if you like.

When I ripped my vinyl collection, I did it that way, and saved it to both .WAV and .MP3 because long-term compatibility across multiple platforms is most important to me. My wife is a devout Apple-worshipper and the constant compatibility battles totally wear me out.

While .MP3 is "lossy" it is not terribly so if you keep your rips in the 192-320 range. And, depending on how old you are and how well-preserved your hearing is, that is probably quite enough.

Exact Audio Copy is the gold standard for ripping, of course, but CDex is pretty good and quicker and easier.

For editing, recording, and other functions, I always use Audacity (+Lame will be required for .MP3s) and it is wonderful.

Free Audio Converter has helped me manipulate file types successfully.

[ComradeSniper]

If you are going to want to use them on idevices, don't bother with flac. Go with alac (it's every bit as good) instead as alac is natively supported unlike flac. While there are ways to get flac on idevices, it's a lot more effort and involves some extra steps since you can't sync the normal way with unsupported file type. alac files are huge, so better get used to not loading as much music for on the go.

I only put V0 or 320 mp3s on my phone since lossless files are much too big for me to be able to have my entire collection with me. That and I can't tell the difference between FLAC and V0 MP3 with my current setup 

[esoomenona]

Also, check out mp3tag. Once I convert to mp3 and am getting ready to sync to my iPod, I use that to add album art and modify the tags to my liking.

[BakaPhoenix]

If you are going to want to use them on idevices, don't bother with flac. Go with alac (it's every bit as good) instead as alac is natively supported unlike flac. While there are ways to get flac on idevices, it's a lot more effort and involves some extra steps since you can't sync the normal way with unsupported file type. alac files are huge, so better get used to not loading as much music for on the go.

I only put V0 or 320 mp3s on my phone since lossless files are much too big for me to be able to have my entire collection with me. That and I can't tell the difference between FLAC and V0 MP3 with my current setup 

The difference between flac and a 320kbps mp3 aren't that much. You'll probably need a good dac, amp and headphone to notice the difference. Considering you are on mobile is pointless to have flac

[tp4tissue]

If you are going to want to use them on idevices, don't bother with flac. Go with alac (it's every bit as good) instead as alac is natively supported unlike flac. While there are ways to get flac on idevices, it's a lot more effort and involves some extra steps since you can't sync the normal way with unsupported file type. alac files are huge, so better get used to not loading as much music for on the go.

I only put V0 or 320 mp3s on my phone since lossless files are much too big for me to be able to have my entire collection with me. That and I can't tell the difference between FLAC and V0 MP3 with my current setup 

The difference between flac and a 320kbps mp3 aren't that much. You'll probably need a good dac, amp and headphone to notice the difference. Considering you are on mobile is pointless to have flac

The difference isn't there if you "DON'T" look for it...

If you're LOOKING for it, you're no longer listening to the music, you're listening to the equipment..

IT IS NOT WRONG... to listen to equipment,  but when people say no-difference.. what they mean is it doesn't hurt the music enough to cause a disturbance.

[BakaPhoenix]

If you are going to want to use them on idevices, don't bother with flac. Go with alac (it's every bit as good) instead as alac is natively supported unlike flac. While there are ways to get flac on idevices, it's a lot more effort and involves some extra steps since you can't sync the normal way with unsupported file type. alac files are huge, so better get used to not loading as much music for on the go.

I only put V0 or 320 mp3s on my phone since lossless files are much too big for me to be able to have my entire collection with me. That and I can't tell the difference between FLAC and V0 MP3 with my current setup 

The difference between flac and a 320kbps mp3 aren't that much. You'll probably need a good dac, amp and headphone to notice the difference. Considering you are on mobile is pointless to have flac

The difference isn't there if you "DON'T" look for it...

If you're LOOKING for it, you're no longer listening to the music, you're listening to the equipment..

IT IS NOT WRONG... to listen to equipment,  but when people say no-difference.. what they mean is it doesn't hurt the music enough to cause a disturbance.

Well I'm not at all a good ear, but i listen often insturmental music and to be honest i don't hear differnce between a good mp3 and a flac.
Maybe others can hear the difference but on a mobile usage with external noise i don't think that is worth having a full flac library instaed an much bigger mp3's one.

[fohat.digs]

vinyl on a good system > CD on a good system > any lossless on a decent system > any lossy on a decent system > anything on earplugs

[tp4tissue]

vinyl on a good system > CD on a good system > any lossless on a decent system > any lossy on a decent system > anything on earplugs

the charm of vinyl is that it is VERY lossy.. and essentially "simplifies" the music you're listening to.. distilling it down to just the essentials..

You brain has to do 2 things when listening to music...  Transcoding it to brain format sound file...  and then Interpret these incoming waves...

The brain has limited processing capacity..  so it's perfectly possible that when say you're tired.. your brain can be overloaded, because the transcoding load is so high that it no longer has process cycles left to "interpret" / "enjoy" the music.

vinyl may still be enjoyable in these situations because its transcoding load is smaller than super-hi-fi-extreme-dac-amp-thd-000001

[TheSoulhunter]

vinyl on a good system > any lossless on a good system > any lossless on a decent system > any lossy on a decent system > anything on earplugs

[fohat.digs]

the charm of vinyl is that it is VERY lossy.

Absolutely, utterly, 100% wrong.

Sound waves themselves, all musical instruments with the exception of synthesizers, including the human voice, loudspeakers, compression waves in air, and all components of the human ear itself are perfect examples of analog devices.

A sound wave is just that, a continuous analog string.

Any sort of digitization breaks up that string into chunks and sends it along.

I will gladly grant you that the digitized chunks may be smaller than a human ear can perceive, but the continuous wiggle of the needle in the groove is directly linked to the continuous wiggle of the sound being recorded.

[tp4tissue]

the charm of vinyl is that it is VERY lossy.

Absolutely, utterly, 100% wrong.

Sound waves themselves, all musical instruments with the exception of synthesizers, including the human voice, loudspeakers, compression waves in air, and all components of the human ear itself are perfect examples of analog devices.

A sound wave is just that, a continuous analog string.

Any sort of digitization breaks up that string into chunks and sends it along.

I will gladly grant you that the digitized chunks may be smaller than a human ear can perceive, but the continuous wiggle of the needle in the groove is directly linked to the continuous wiggle of the sound being recorded.

fohat.. you are mistaken..

digitized content, when played back, fully reproduces the analogue waveform content that recorded.

this is a misconception among non-audiophiles..

"The Nyquist-Shannon sampling theory states that continuous-time (analog) signals and their corresponding discrete-time (digital) signals are mathematically equivalent representations of any bandwidth-limited signal, provided the sample rate is higher than 2X the bandwidth. "

"Effectively, the ADC output sample values are interpreted as a series of points intersected by the waveform; the DAC output is a smooth curve, not a stair-step at all. Additionally, modern ADC and DAC chips are engineered to reduce below the threshold of audibility, if not completely eliminate, any other sources of noise in this conversion process, resulting in an extremely high correlation between the input and output signals. "

"Analog encoding has many measurable and audible faults, potentially including harmonic distortion, noise and intermodulation distortion. These distortions have invariably measured higher than for digital formats, including CD.

Tracking error is due to the use of analog encoding with a stylus that contacts the medium, manifesting as distortion and possibly also cyclic wow with subsonic noise if the pressing is off center from the spindle hole. Wow, flutter, footsteps and feedback are other errors due to the transport mechanism and transducers used with vinyl. Digital storage has none of these errors. "

"In any of these preceeding three use cases, digital is superior to analog at both mastering and end-user stages, and represents an advance in the total sound production signal path rather than simply storage improvement. "

"The dynamic range of vinyl, when evaluated as the ratio of a peak sinusoidal amplitude to the peak noise density at that sine wave frequency, is somewhere around 80 dB. Under theoretically ideal conditions, this could perhaps improve to 120 dB. The dynamic range of CDs, when evaluated on a frequency-dependent basis and performed with proper dithering and oversampling, is somewhere around 150 dB. Under no legitimate circumstances will the dynamic range of vinyl ever exceed the dynamic range of CD, under any frequency, given the wide performance gap and the physical limitations of vinyl playback."



The fact that a PERSON may "PREFER" Vinyl falls under the "psycho-acoustic" genre.
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_%28Vinyl%29

[esoomenona]

Droppin' knowledge bombs like Hiroshima?

[fohat.digs]

Mathematical equations are impossible to argue against.

Sensation and emotion are impossible to quantify.

Pure analog and vinyl sound better because they operate in the same mode as ears: analog vibrations in sweeping, sloppy, warm, fuzzy curves.

Regardless of what electrical measuring instruments report, analog sounds better than digital.

[vun]

Mathematical equations are impossible to argue against.

Sensation and emotion are impossible to quantify.

Pure analog and vinyl sound better because they operate in the same mode as ears: analog vibrations in sweeping, sloppy, warm, fuzzy curves.

Regardless of what electrical measuring instruments report, analog sounds better than digital.

I will admit that I like the sound of vinyl, although I believe it's the flaws adding character and the fact that you expect it to sound different, so your brain sorta helps it along.


As for CD rips, best quality has already been explained, although is there any particular reason why using EAC for FLAC and then another program to V0 is better than just using EAC and straight to V0?

[kmiller8]

As for CD rips, best quality has already been explained, although is there any particular reason why using EAC for FLAC and then another program to V0 is better than just using EAC and straight to V0?

You get to keep an archive of your flacs in case your cds ever become too damaged to be used.

[vun]

As for CD rips, best quality has already been explained, although is there any particular reason why using EAC for FLAC and then another program to V0 is better than just using EAC and straight to V0?

You get to keep an archive of your flacs in case your cds ever become too damaged to be used.

Yeah, I get that, I just can never bother doing it. Probably should get around to that though.
I just wondered if there was a quality issue with using EAC for V0.

[tp4tissue]

Mathematical equations are impossible to argue against.

Sensation and emotion are impossible to quantify.

Pure analog and vinyl sound better because they operate in the same mode as ears: analog vibrations in sweeping, sloppy, warm, fuzzy curves.

Regardless of what electrical measuring instruments report, analog sounds better than digital.

fohat... come on bro...  are you challenging physics?

[fohat.digs]

fohat... come on bro...  are you challenging physics?

[esoomenona]

I just wondered if there was a quality issue with using EAC for V0.

Not at all. It's really just the fact that you spend the time getting a quality rip, to just rip straight to a lossy format. It literally takes a moment to transcode from FLAC to mp3 when you have it all set up.

[vun]

I just wondered if there was a quality issue with using EAC for V0.

Not at all. It's really just the fact that you spend the time getting a quality rip, to just rip straight to a lossy format. It literally takes a moment to transcode from FLAC to mp3 when you have it all set up.

I do rip to FLAC as well, but most of the time I just rip straight to mp3 since my CDs never go anywhere, so with my current storage setup it's not really worth it to make an archive version. I will fix that once I get around to renewing storage though.

[tp4tissue]

I just wondered if there was a quality issue with using EAC for V0.

Not at all. It's really just the fact that you spend the time getting a quality rip, to just rip straight to a lossy format. It literally takes a moment to transcode from FLAC to mp3 when you have it all set up.

I do rip to FLAC as well, but most of the time I just rip straight to mp3 since my CDs never go anywhere, so with my current storage setup it's not really worth it to make an archive version. I will fix that once I get around to renewing storage though.

CDs are way more reliable than harddrives.. as long as it's the "I bought it kind" and not the ones you cyber-stole..

[vun]

I just wondered if there was a quality issue with using EAC for V0.

Not at all. It's really just the fact that you spend the time getting a quality rip, to just rip straight to a lossy format. It literally takes a moment to transcode from FLAC to mp3 when you have it all set up.

I do rip to FLAC as well, but most of the time I just rip straight to mp3 since my CDs never go anywhere, so with my current storage setup it's not really worth it to make an archive version. I will fix that once I get around to renewing storage though.

CDs are way more reliable than harddrives.. as long as it's the "I bought it kind" and not the ones you cyber-stole..

When I say CD I mean CD. If it's music I bought digitally I'll refer to it as an album rather than a CD, since it's not actually on a CD.

[fohat.digs]

CDs are way more reliable than harddrives.. as long as it's the "I bought it kind" and not the ones you cyber-stole..

Quite true, but I have had quite a few "store-bought" CDs fail after 15-20 years, and vinyl at triple that age still works fine.

And I am not talking about damage or wear, obviously these are delicate surfaces that can easily be broken or abraded.

[agodinhost]

Monkey Audio = Flac (I'm beating a dead horse - mostly sure)

I do have more than 400 audio cds in original quality at here (I do have some hear issues - I can't hear a small freq range so for me it's kinda imperative to record in a good quality - mp3 sucks!)

[Malphas]

EAC and FLAC as others have already mentioned is basically the de facto method.

[tp4tissue]

Monkey Audio = Flac (I'm beating a dead horse - mostly sure)

I do have more than 400 audio cds in original quality at here (I do have some hear issues - I can't hear a small freq range so for me it's kinda imperative to record in a good quality - mp3 sucks!)

well..... monkey =\= flac....  flac file would still work if it had a few bits flipped, if your harddrive went fahzzazzle..

And bits flipped in a Monkey audio file, it won't even play.

[Oobly]

"The Nyquist-Shannon sampling theory states that continuous-time (analog) signals and their corresponding discrete-time (digital) signals are mathematically equivalent representations of any bandwidth-limited signal, provided the sample rate is higher than 2X the bandwidth. "

"Effectively, the ADC output sample values are interpreted as a series of points intersected by the waveform; the DAC output is a smooth curve, not a stair-step at all. Additionally, modern ADC and DAC chips are engineered to reduce below the threshold of audibility, if not completely eliminate, any other sources of noise in this conversion process, resulting in an extremely high correlation between the input and output signals. "

"Analog encoding has many measurable and audible faults, potentially including harmonic distortion, noise and intermodulation distortion. These distortions have invariably measured higher than for digital formats, including CD.

Tracking error is due to the use of analog encoding with a stylus that contacts the medium, manifesting as distortion and possibly also cyclic wow with subsonic noise if the pressing is off center from the spindle hole. Wow, flutter, footsteps and feedback are other errors due to the transport mechanism and transducers used with vinyl. Digital storage has none of these errors. "

"In any of these preceeding three use cases, digital is superior to analog at both mastering and end-user stages, and represents an advance in the total sound production signal path rather than simply storage improvement. "

"The dynamic range of vinyl, when evaluated as the ratio of a peak sinusoidal amplitude to the peak noise density at that sine wave frequency, is somewhere around 80 dB. Under theoretically ideal conditions, this could perhaps improve to 120 dB. The dynamic range of CDs, when evaluated on a frequency-dependent basis and performed with proper dithering and oversampling, is somewhere around 150 dB. Under no legitimate circumstances will the dynamic range of vinyl ever exceed the dynamic range of CD, under any frequency, given the wide performance gap and the physical limitations of vinyl playback."



The fact that a PERSON may "PREFER" Vinyl falls under the "psycho-acoustic" genre.
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_%28Vinyl%29

1. Analog audio is not bandwidth limited.

2. In a perfectly implemented DAC, the output is smooth... Not a lot of those in real life.

3. All the types of distortion you mentioned for vinyl are "musical" to the ear, rather than harsh. Hiss, wow and flutter are indeed irritating artefacts in vinyl audio, however, which can be minimised with good engineering (of the recording device, duplication process and playback device).

4. The dynamic range of most vinyl recordings is larger than that of many CD's (and particularly digital downloads) due to overuse of compression in music targeted to portable devices (ie digital). Far too many modern producers / studios overcompress the signal with the result having very narrow dynamic range. Metallica's Death Magnetic is a good example. The dynamic range of vinyl is certainly "good enough".

5. The ears and brain work together to fill in the blanks when presented with incomplete information. A lot of subtle hints are preserved in an analog signal which are simply lost when sampled to digital (see point 1). This can lead to the digital version of a signal sounding flat or lifeless compared to the original analog signal.

For these reasons, many people prefer the sound of vinyl despite its flaws. Some can't tell a difference and some just don't care. For me, it depends on the situation. A well sampled, slightly lossy compressed track without too much compression on it played through good hardware can sound good enough to me in most cases. I like vinyl when I can get it, but it's not often an option nowadays (convenience of large library of music from PC, phone, etc usually trumps getting the record out and setting up the player).