Author Topic: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad  (Read 128733 times)

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Offline MOZ

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #200 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 12:01:46 »
Sounds good.

Offline domoaligato

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #201 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 12:08:25 »
sorry I was sick the last few days. making a mold and casting copies of this case should be very easy because it is small enough to fit in my pressure pot. a poker case is to big. anything around numpad should be fine.

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #202 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 12:10:08 »
So my "better case" was indeed better, but it also was much more expensive to 3D print.  So I have ordered one of the v.1 prototypes in the cheapest, fastest material: unpolished white plastic.  It is due around 10/04, and after I verify it works I will open it up for ordering again.

However, the design file is available for download if you want to print it yourself.  And if anyone wants to buy one before I get mine, I can open it up for sale upon request.

Shapeways pricing is weird, and I'll have to grok it so I can optimize designs for their pricing.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

later when a more final version is created maybe I could make a mold of the case. resin casting should be drastically cheaper.

I am very interested in this, particularly for the too-large-to-3D-print GH-122 case.  That will be the same shape, except scaled up to 9" x 21".

Can you expand on your comment, please?

 - Ron | samwisekoi

sorry that is to big of an item for my equipment.

Offline Kaibz

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #203 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 15:23:00 »
Does that means that we have to order the whole package? I mean it will not be be possible to just order the PCBs?
I 'm asking because i was planning on building my own cases.

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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #204 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 18:23:37 »
Does that means that we have to order the whole package? I mean it will not be be possible to just order the PCBs?
I 'm asking because i was planning on building my own cases.

Oh heck no.  What I wanted was a simple matrix keypad PCB, so that is what I designed.  But others were interested, and then cases were added to the discussion, etc.  People started sending me PM requests for whole set costs and build services.  I'm just focusing on the keypad PCB.

So, you will TOTALLY be able to get a PCB or two.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Also, potato pic of GH36x2 awaiting keycap set from WASD.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 September 2014, 18:29:41 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #205 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 19:07:42 »
Now that's awesome!

Offline Kaibz

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #206 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 07:12:16 »
Thank you for answering samwisekoi.

Omg they look so sexy !!!!! Can't have enough pictures of those!!!

EDIT: Out of curiosity is there a particular reason why you put the connectors for the cables (that join the two pads) on the sides and not on top?
« Last Edit: Wed, 01 October 2014, 07:43:47 by Kaibz »
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #207 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 08:53:25 »
Thank you for answering samwisekoi.

Omg they look so sexy !!!!! Can't have enough pictures of those!!!

EDIT: Out of curiosity is there a particular reason why you put the connectors for the cables (that join the two pads) on the sides and not on top?

Yes.

This is the design element I wrestled with the most for the updated Beta (and hopefully Prod) version.

There are a few reasons for side exit.  When the board is flipped, the two sets of connectors are next to each other, as you see in the picture.  Also, when they are flipped perpendicular to the line of pads that make up the connector, the relative position of the pads does not change.  This makes the connection easier to plan and less prone to reversing by the user.  (Note that I used one red wire in the cables for this very reason.)  And then there is symmetry with the USB connector that I have to either embed or expose via a side exit.

But additionally the benefit of side exit is that I have more room on the PCB on the sides when I add the 1.5x optional mounts to the top row.  That ended up being the deciding factor in the next version.

I have tried both ways, and the side exits work better.

In-process picture attached.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #208 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 10:25:43 »
Ron

if you need detailed photos of my Tipro let me know. I am not sure why, but it really feels incredibly strong. I think the most important thing is it is not held by tabs like Ducky/ Filco, but screwed together with metal backplate and many screws.

A simple sheet metal backplate with holes for screws, and thick plastic sheets for walls, are going to be cheaper than getting anything moulded or 3D printed. The problem is that the modular design needs to be done properly. I am happy to do my part but only have basic Tipro+credit card reader as examples.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #209 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 13:30:24 »
Ron

if you need detailed photos of my Tipro let me know. I am not sure why, but it really feels incredibly strong. I think the most important thing is it is not held by tabs like Ducky/ Filco, but screwed together with metal backplate and many screws.

A simple sheet metal backplate with holes for screws, and thick plastic sheets for walls, are going to be cheaper than getting anything moulded or 3D printed. The problem is that the modular design needs to be done properly. I am happy to do my part but only have basic Tipro+credit card reader as examples.
That would be immensely helpful, if not for this project, it will be for a future one, you can make a separate thread if Ron wants to keep the clutter out of this thread.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #210 on: Fri, 03 October 2014, 15:49:35 »
Continued from "What did you get in the mail" thread.

Custom keycaps from WASD Keyboards for my GH36x2 Prototype!  The three keycaps at the bottom of the last shot are an alternate bottom row for the RH keypad.  The Numlock/F7 key is a locking switch, so I can use just the RH keypad as a normal numpad OR as the RH side of the GH36x2 pair.  Numlock is really Fn2.

Big thank you to David and Weyman at WASD!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

p.s.  Sorry about the glare.  New keycaps in natural light.  They look and feel great in person.
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 October 2014, 15:53:58 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Glod

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #211 on: Fri, 03 October 2014, 16:38:56 »
HOW DID I MISS THIS D: !!!!!!! well actually i know why i missed this, I've been purposely avoiding new geekhack threads :/

any way i could get in on this still somehow in some way once you have it ready? (2 PCB) (really all i can offer is a testing and some money).

Im a big ErgoDox fan, one of the longest and hardcore users of it, but I'm also a geekhacker and would like to try a different matrix split keyboard.

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #212 on: Fri, 03 October 2014, 16:43:44 »
HOW DID I MISS THIS D: !!!!!!! well actually i know why i missed this, I've been purposely avoiding new geekhack threads :/

any way i could get in on this still somehow in some way once you have it ready? (2 PCB) (really all i can offer is a testing and some money).

Im a big ErgoDox fan, one of the longest and hardcore users of it, but I'm also a geekhacker and would like to try a different matrix split keyboard.

Bro shoot me your address again and I'll send you my pair of PCB's.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #213 on: Fri, 03 October 2014, 17:12:09 »
There will be a beta version with backlighting and better interconnects, so there will be a second round of testing for those.  Keep me posted on who has what so I can backfill during beta.

Currently that pair of boards is in the very large hands of a 6'5" ex-bouncer systems engineer who complained that he has never used a keyboard that was comfortable with his wide shoulders.  Until today.  He does want the two halves to be connected by longer (3-foot) cables, so I will make those.  He (and I) also realized that Backspace should be to the right of the zero key, not on the top row.  He was very impressed when I just made that change in Easy AVR and re-flashed the keyboard in just a few seconds.

Anyhow, the "ergo" functionality is now being tested in the real-world.

Also, note that I've tossed in AltGr in this round.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(Dang; I am at work and my Model M doesn't have my sig programmed in a a single keystroke.  I miss my GH36!)

p.s.  Here is the current GH36x2 firmware data file.  Boot and Console are hidden on Fn6.

p.p.s. @Glod: Make sure you do the cuts and jump fixes that were found after I sent the Proto boards out.  They are documented earlier in the thread.
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 October 2014, 17:14:54 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Glod

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #214 on: Fri, 03 October 2014, 17:23:25 »
SpamRay is always so nice

Ill check out all the fixes and stuff when i get them, need to find my box of parts such as teensy's i had around here somewhere. i have plenty of diodes and misc stuff, Ill need to desolder my 11900 or find some cheap pcb switches somewhere. Currently between jobs (er unemployed) so i need to do this on the cheap.

so exciting.

edit: very cool, found a teensy, diodes, hookup wires, 70 PCB clear switches and 30 PCB brown switches., i got me a project next week :D
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 October 2014, 17:52:17 by Glod »

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #215 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 12:06:20 »
Latest case design concept is posted over in the GH-122 thread.  See that post for details.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Melvang

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #216 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 12:47:02 »
I am interested in 3 of these.  Two would be for myself to use as a split keyboard, the other would be for the wife.  She won't use her filco until I can source up a game pad that isn't from Razer.  She finds the palm rest on them very uncomfortable.  I would be willing to pay for them
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Offline Kaibz

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #217 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 19:07:56 »
I love they custom keydesign! I am built like your engineer friend so i am even more looking to it now.I have a few questions if i may:

1. I know the switches will be PCB mounted, but if i have a custom made plate with 36 square holes (laser made), i can, in theory,  have the switches plate mounted and then solder them to the PCBs if i plan my "case" accordingly right?

2. If instead of using the connectors and cable i see on the pictures, i want to solder a cable (very long) that goes from keypad left to keypad right) and even may even get rid of the usb connector and also solder the USB cable directly to the board, there is nothing preventing from doing so?

3. I'm wondering how many pins are still available on the teensy or how many do you use? I'm asking just to figure out how many output i'll have to experiment and play with (Fn info from RGB led, additional micro switches for Fn select, LCD...)

Anyway, great work Samwisekoi !!!

Cheers !


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Offline MOZ

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #218 on: Sun, 05 October 2014, 02:47:54 »
1. Correct. The difference between PCB mounted switches and plate mounted switches is that PCB mounted switches have two extra plastic pins to ensure accurate orientation of the switches, with a plate, these are redundant as the plate then ensures that the switches are aligned correctly and thus the plate mounted switches do not have these tabs. Hence any PCB supporting PCB mounted switches will allow fo you to use plate-mounted switches. And as you said, just plan your case accordingly if the reference case is designed to work without a plate.

2. This is correct, you may skip the connectors, both for the connection between the two halves and the USB, connectors are just to ensure easier transport as there is no chance for the cable to be pulled on and damage the PCB.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #219 on: Sun, 05 October 2014, 10:02:00 »
MOZ the Great and Powerful has spoken -- and has provided accurate answers!  Thanks, MOZ!

MOZ is totally correct on #1.  In fact I would say a plate is useful when they will be used for a split keyboard.  Plan your case so that the entire PCB will fit -- the PCB has one-quarter inch outside of the switch footprint, and traces are IN that quarter-inch.  Also, if you CUT the PCB to one of the smaller supported sizes, then a plate will help support the cut PCB.

Re #2, the expansion pins starting with the Beta version are designed to use a single 20-pin ribbon cable OR 2x10 pinned 24-26ga. wires.  You could hard-wire the USB port, but you would have to do so from the Teensy's mini-USB female connector.  Most people just make a jumper that has a male mini-USB connector to plug into the Teensy.

#3 I use all 24 of the side pins and none of the interior pins.  That leaves (IIRC) two data pins at the end and one more in the middle of the Teensy you could use.  I have asked mettaliqaz to enable the two unused pins on the end as Fn and Fn2 indicator LED pins. I have allocated two lanes in the expansion cables for those two circuits, although they are likely to require a jumper from the Teensy because at least one of those pin locations is directly above a switch mounting hole.

TL;DR:
  #1 Yes.
  #2 Mostly yes.
  #3 Three IIRC.


 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

p.s.  I was asked via PM for an overall project status update.  I am reproducing it here for other people's benefit:

The current status of the PCB is that AFAIK, I am the only person to finish a Prototype build.  I've built three; a single LH gaming keypad and a GH36x2 split keyboard.  I am using the input from the Proto builds to refine the design for the Beta PCB.  That will fix the existing errors and add new features like full LED backlighting.

Experienced makers can have as many Beta PCBs as they want at my cost.

Once the beta builds prove the design, I'll do a GB for the PCBs.

In parallel with the above I am designing a low-cost case for both the GH36 and the much larger GH-122.  You can follow most progress on that in the GH-122 thread.  The current status is that Shapeways has made a 3D-printed case for a single GH36 that should arrive next week.  Today I have finalized a modular design that will use laser-cut Acrylic or metal.  I am going to get a pair of those cut and assemble them for the Proto GH36x2 split keyboard I made.

I have no more Prototype PCBs, and the ordering of Beta boards is weeks away, depending mostly on completion of Proto builds and feedback from their builders.

Best regards,

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 October 2014, 10:37:17 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #220 on: Sun, 05 October 2014, 12:03:22 »
Ron, I am salivating at the GH36. That said, until I can get Dorkvader to incorporate some extra thumb keys for me I will probably stay with my Tipro. Which I am mostly using... 72 keys in two 6x6 arrays. (The rest of the keys are used, but not much and can be replaced with layer programming if I were so inclined).

Where do you want the extra thumb keys?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #221 on: Sun, 05 October 2014, 12:53:01 »
Ron, I am salivating at the GH36. That said, until I can get Dorkvader to incorporate some extra thumb keys for me I will probably stay with my Tipro. Which I am mostly using... 72 keys in two 6x6 arrays. (The rest of the keys are used, but not much and can be replaced with layer programming if I were so inclined).

Where do you want the extra thumb keys?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Where the thumbs are - a bit like ergodox except flush against the side of the PCB so no need to stretch the thumbs out so far unlike Ergodox. Maybe 2x4 on the right of the left hand PCB and 2x4 on the left of the right hand PCB. I think these are vital for attracting ergodox users as well.

but hey, Ron, something I just started thinking about was WCass' XTant. You see, fohat is fretting over lack of casings for the XT. And I am reminded that while getting the backplate and barrel/hammers for the XT are not that hard, many old casings aren't in such great shape. I have one split open casing myself bought from a geekhacker a while ago.

Isn't it possible to use the basic concept of an assembled 2D casing for the model F XT as well? The PCB/plate can always be supported by commonly available LED spacers of different heights so that we don't actually need to mould curved plastic for the XT.

What do you think?
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #222 on: Sun, 05 October 2014, 13:11:58 »
Where the thumbs are - a bit like ergodox except flush against the side of the PCB so no need to stretch the thumbs out so far unlike Ergodox. Maybe 2x4 on the right of the left hand PCB and 2x4 on the left of the right hand PCB. I think these are vital for attracting ergodox users as well.

Can you please send me a picture of a pair of these?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #223 on: Sun, 05 October 2014, 13:46:58 »
Where the thumbs are - a bit like ergodox except flush against the side of the PCB so no need to stretch the thumbs out so far unlike Ergodox. Maybe 2x4 on the right of the left hand PCB and 2x4 on the left of the right hand PCB. I think these are vital for attracting ergodox users as well.

Can you please send me a picture of a pair of these?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

Was thinking of getting Dorkvader to add this module to the GH36. I personally think 2x4 is all that's needed for ergodox but the seller only has 2x5.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pc-White-Keyboard-2x5-keys-10-keys-Metal-Panel-/130303141925?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item1e56ac2825

Also note these guys sell http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-ABS-Plastic-Keyboard-Enclosure-G1188G-color-Gray-134x189x32-55mm-WxLxD-/140900075305?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20ce4c8729

keyboard enclosures for their products. This example I am showing you is quite close to GH36 dimensions. And the price is good. I wonder if we can talk to them like Elton did to Taihao, and talk them into selling enclosures suited for GH36 for 3x the ebay price, $18 each, MOQ200. We should be able to meet that.
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Offline Kaibz

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #224 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 12:13:29 »
Thanks a lot Moz and Samwisekoi for answering me that is exactly what i needed to know.

Cheers!
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Offline Glod

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #225 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 18:48:14 »
look what i got in the mail today :) (THANKS MR RAY)



oh boy oh boy oh boy

if all things work out well ill be building it tomorrow or the next day

ill probably need help lol
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 October 2014, 18:49:57 by Glod »

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #226 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 19:01:12 »
look what i got in the mail today :) (THANKS MR RAY)

Show Image


oh boy oh boy oh boy

if all things work out well ill be building it tomorrow or the next day

ill probably need help lol

Congrats!  Happy to provide assistance if needed.

On a related note, it occured to me that I never posted a picture of my working GH36 Left Hand Keypad.  So I brought it in, took a couple of snaps and here is GH36 #1.  Note the FN key is a Cherry Locking switch, so I can put it into edit mode (Fn1 layer), which makes the following layout updates:

 - WASD keys become the normal arrow keys.
 - Z, X, C, and V become ^Z, etc. for single-key Undo, Cut, Copy, & Paste.
 - H becomes Redo in my PCB layout program.
 - The spacebar (vertical 2x) becomes \CTRL(cv), which is Duplicate in the same CAD program.
 - G is my auto-sig for geekhack.org.
 - QERTY become 6-0 so I have all the numbers for console mode.
 - U toggles console mode.

Was there a green Escape keycap in Retro DSA?  I don't have one if there was.  The WASD cluster is backlit with white LEDs.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

« Last Edit: Mon, 06 October 2014, 19:03:08 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #227 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 19:11:06 »
look what i got in the mail today :) (THANKS MR RAY)

Show Image


oh boy oh boy oh boy

if all things work out well ill be building it tomorrow or the next day

ill probably need help lol
Wow. That was quick! Just put them in the mailbox Saturday.

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #228 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 19:16:58 »
again, thanks ray


hey Ron

got a question for you already

theoretically I could skip the interconnects and just use two teensy and just have the keyboard use two usb ports on my computer, am i right?

edit: also cool gamepad idea bro
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 October 2014, 19:19:29 by Glod »

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #229 on: Tue, 07 October 2014, 01:26:07 »
If this hasn't been finalized..

I'd really think it could use another 2 column of keys on the "inside"  because those keys won't get in the way.. and will be useful for programming common keys that people may use..

The base is fine, but extra keys really help IF and WHEN they're needed..


this was a serious problem with the poker.. YES, u get away with just those few keys, but when you need just one more key, it's like GDI, wish I was using 87...

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #230 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 17:33:11 »
going to be a delay getting mine together until this weekend. I think im going to dual dual teensy instead of the interconnection of the two halves. I think with this earlier prototype it would look better.



actually hmmm, i may end up building it afterall....
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 October 2014, 17:53:42 by Glod »

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #231 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 19:52:54 »
going to be a delay getting mine together until this weekend. I think im going to dual dual teensy instead of the interconnection of the two halves. I think with this earlier prototype it would look better.



actually hmmm, i may end up building it afterall....

I saw this but forgot to reply. I *think* this would work, but I never thought through attaching the Teensy to the wrong side of an upside-down PCB. It might work. Probably will work.

I wouldn't do it, myself.

I'll post a parts list for the interconnect cable.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #232 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 19:57:31 »
Well I'm doing it lol I got one hand almost complete. Ron can you give me an example layout dat for a single hand with ALL 1x keys

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #233 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 20:32:13 »
Well I'm doing it lol I got one hand almost complete. Ron can you give me an example layout dat for a single hand with ALL 1x keys

Here you go.  Top layer only; no FN layers at all.  Created with Easy_keymap_20140902.

Make sure you do the Row_5 fixes!  (Two cuts plus one jump.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi
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I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #234 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 20:55:24 »
ok Ron, and surprisingly i got it working except for one key doesnt work

the 4 key in your layout, Coumn 5, (row 2?)

when i press it, the keyboard looks like it shorts out or something, it no longer registers keystrokes after i press that key and i have to unplug it

man i hope its a simple fix because desoldering a teensy is a huge pain in the ass, i actually find it almost impossible to desolder it

edit: what makes me think i have to desolder the teensy is because its only a single key doing this, the entire rest of the row and column works. the key is under the teensy and i cant go in and check the points

unless its a firmware thing?
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 October 2014, 21:07:21 by Glod »

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #235 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 21:30:21 »
ok Ron, and surprisingly i got it working except for one key doesnt work

the 4 key in your layout, Coumn 5, (row 2?)

when i press it, the keyboard looks like it shorts out or something, it no longer registers keystrokes after i press that key and i have to unplug it

man i hope its a simple fix because desoldering a teensy is a huge pain in the ass, i actually find it almost impossible to desolder it

edit: what makes me think i have to desolder the teensy is because its only a single key doing this, the entire rest of the row and column works. the key is under the teensy and i cant go in and check the points

unless its a firmware thing?

Unlikely.  It sounds to me like a diode is missing, dead, or reversed.  Check those first.  The diode for that switch is visible just under the edge of the Teensy.

However, it might be more than that.  In my experience it is likely to be a problem with soldering the Teensy, not a switch.  Try the tests below with the keypad connected and a notepad document (or something) open:

#1 Does the 5% key work?  If so, Row 2 works.  If not, try 3#.  If neither work, then you have a problem with Row 2, probably the solder joint on the Teensy.

#2 Does the F5 key work?  If so, Column 5 works.  If not, try the R key.  If neither work, then you have a problem with Column 5, probably the solder joint on the Teensy.

#3  Does the firmware work?  Use a jumper wire to connect the same row and column on the expansion pads.  For the 4$ key (R2C5), connect the expansion pads labelled C5 and R2.  If that works, you will get a 4 on the screen.  And the firmware (and the Teensy) are fine.  However, you may have a problem with the switch, again, probably a bad solder joint.

#4  Does the switch work?  Unplug the keypad and attach a voltmeter or continuity tester to the same expansion pads (R2 and C5).  Press the switch, and you should get a buzz, a light, or zero Ohms resistance, depending on what you are using to do this test.  Because there is a diode in the circuit, try it with positive and negative swapped.  If either polarity works (and all the other tests worked as well, the switch is good.  Otherwise, you may have to undo that Teensy.

Good luck and keep me posted.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

p.s.  You DID do the Row 5 fixes first, correct?

p.p.s.  Note to others:  Test the two switches above the Teensy by using test #4 before you solder the Teensy!  That may prevent heartbreak.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 October 2014, 21:38:03 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #236 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 21:33:36 »
GH36x2 Connector Parts List

As promised, here are the parts you need to connect two GH36 Prototype PCBs.  I chose Pololu.com because you can get everything you need in one place, the prices are good, and they will crimp the connectors for you.

http://www.pololu.com/category/39/cables-and-wire

Qty 1:  0.1" (2.54mm) Crimp Connector Housing: 1x8-Pin 10-Pack ($0.99/pack)
http://www.pololu.com/product/1907

Qty 2:  Wires with Pre-crimped Terminals 10-Pack F-F 12" Black ($4.49/pack)
http://www.pololu.com/product/1840

The above will make a pair of cables, 12" long.  You can use other lengths or colors instead.  You will have some extra parts in case of mistakes.


Qty 1:  0.100" (2.54 mm) Breakaway Male Header: 1x40-Pin, Right Angle ($1.49)
http://www.pololu.com/product/967

That is enough to do all of the connectors on a pair of boards with some left over.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Glod

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #237 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 21:35:28 »
ok Ron, and surprisingly i got it working except for one key doesnt work

the 4 key in your layout, Coumn 5, (row 2?)

when i press it, the keyboard looks like it shorts out or something, it no longer registers keystrokes after i press that key and i have to unplug it

man i hope its a simple fix because desoldering a teensy is a huge pain in the ass, i actually find it almost impossible to desolder it

edit: what makes me think i have to desolder the teensy is because its only a single key doing this, the entire rest of the row and column works. the key is under the teensy and i cant go in and check the points

unless its a firmware thing?

Unlikely.  It sounds to me like a diode is missing, dead, or reversed.  Check those first.  The diode for that switch is visible just under the edge of the Teensy.

However, it might be more than that.  In my experience it is likely to be a problem with soldering the Teensy, not a switch.  Try the tests below with the keypad connected and a notepad document (or something) open:

#1 Does the 5% key work?  If so, Row 2 works.  If not, try 3#.  If neither work, then you have a problem with Row 2, probably the solder joint on the Teensy.

#2 Does the F5 key work?  If so, Column 5 works.  If not, try the R key.  If neither work, then you have a problem with Column 5, probably the solder joint on the Teensy.

#3  Does the firmware work?  Use a jumper wire to connect the same row and column on the expansion pads.  For the 4$ key (R2C5), connect the expansion pads labelled C5 and R2.  If that works, you will get a 4 on the screen.  And the firmware (and the Teensy) are fine.  However, you may have a problem with the switch, again, probably a bad solder joint.

#4  Does the switch work?  Unplug the keypad and attach a voltmeter or continuity tester to the same expansion pads (R2 and C5).  Press the switch, and you should get a buzz, a light, or zero Ohms resistance, depending on what you are using to do this test.  Because there is a diode in the circuit, try it with positive and negative swapped.  If either polarity works (and all the other tests worked as well, the switch is good.  Otherwise, you may have to undo that Teensy.

Good luck and keep me posted.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

p.s.  You DID do the Row 5 fixes first, correct?

all the keys and columns work for for the keypad except for that 4$ key, there is no problem with any other key

when i cross the 4$ manually from the back while plugged in, to test the switch, the keyboard literally shuts off, its as if it is crossing something it shouldn't, you have to replug it in for anything to work

i tried to desolder the teensy and gave up, it seems impossible, i tried with my soldapault and some wick, ill destroy the teensy and maybe the board trying

the diode is placed correctly but i guess it could be the diode itself, the tip i have is pointy but the iron still burns the teensy if i triy to get in there

ugh this sucks

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #238 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 21:46:50 »
Cut the diode off and solder a new on on the top of the board.  That will work fine.

Only one switch?  Not the row or column connections.  More likely a diode.

Hmmm.  I suppose you could have bridged pins on the Teensy with solder.  To check that, just de-solder two or three switches above and below the Teensy and look carefully at the connections.  Maybe even heat them up and suck some of the solder off.

Still sounding like a diode to me.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.

p.s.  Yes, de-soldering the Teensy is really hard.  If you got the one with pins pre-installed, I can give you some advice on how to remove it safely,  If not, my experience has always ended with a dead Teensy.  And sometimes a dead PCB as well.  (Thanks again JD for the replacement JD40 PCB!)  The GH36 PCB has pretty solid pads, so you can probably pull the Teensy and save the PCB.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Glod

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #239 on: Wed, 08 October 2014, 22:23:52 »
<... removed crazy rant >

« Last Edit: Thu, 09 October 2014, 00:49:18 by Glod »

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #240 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 01:58:28 »
when i cross the 4$ manually from the back while plugged in, to test the switch, the keyboard literally shuts off, its as if it is crossing something it shouldn't, you have to replug it in for anything to work

i tried to desolder the teensy and gave up, it seems impossible, i tried with my soldapault and some wick, ill destroy the teensy and maybe the board trying

the diode is placed correctly but i guess it could be the diode itself, the tip i have is pointy but the iron still burns the teensy if i triy to get in there

ugh this sucks

My goodness, you sound like me!

I feel so relieved that I never jumped on this opportunity. If experienced folks are getting hell, what hope do I have?
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #241 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 10:04:42 »
when i cross the 4$ manually from the back while plugged in, to test the switch, the keyboard literally shuts off, its as if it is crossing something it shouldn't, you have to replug it in for anything to work

i tried to desolder the teensy and gave up, it seems impossible, i tried with my soldapault and some wick, ill destroy the teensy and maybe the board trying

the diode is placed correctly but i guess it could be the diode itself, the tip i have is pointy but the iron still burns the teensy if i triy to get in there

ugh this sucks

My goodness, you sound like me!

I feel so relieved that I never jumped on this opportunity. If experienced folks are getting hell, what hope do I have?

This is the PROTOTYPE round!  It is supposed to be like this!

Everything we discover in this round is going into the next version (and from there into the GH-122/153).  For example, Glod's troubles last night resulted in me moving every component out from under the Teensy.  So in the Beta round, there will be no diodes hiding between the Teensy's legs.

By the time the PROD GH36 makes it to the world, it will be just be a soldering project.  And the GH-122/153 will be even easier.

Latest GH36 component placement shown below.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #242 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 12:48:06 »
Don't worry Ron, I knew it was always going to be far more difficult at the start. That's why I was never going to get involved too deeply until past all beta tests.  :))  That said I was surprised that only I seem to be suggesting going for something like ergodox. It seems far better designed, far more versatile, and far more usable than the ergodox but no one seems to have tried out the expansion pads that you created to add more keys.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #243 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 13:01:48 »
Don't worry Ron, I knew it was always going to be far more difficult at the start. That's why I was never going to get involved too deeply until past all beta tests.  :))  That said I was surprised that only I seem to be suggesting going for something like ergodox. It seems far better designed, far more versatile, and far more usable than the ergodox but no one seems to have tried out the expansion pads that you created to add more keys.

Actually, I have a pair in the hands of a very broad-shouldered person, and this is the first keyboard he has ever used that felt comfortable for him.  He does want to extend the expansion cable to three feet (he is big!), but that is easy to do.  Also, I guessed wrong on some of the key positions, and have been able to update the keyboard for him in real time.

I think once the Beta comes out, with full backlighting and a better interconnect, more people will try it out that way.

FYI, the 3D-printed wedge case prototype came in from Shapeways last night, and I have installed my LH keypad into it.  Very nice, and will be available via Shapeways for around $50 USD in a range of colors.  I'll post some photos later.

Cheers,

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Glod

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #244 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 13:52:51 »
i should mention i got the hand working 100%

Remember this http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61306.msg1450599#msg1450599

well it seems a very small trace remained, meaning when i pressed the 4 key, R2 and R6 crossed. exacto knife and it worked

i actually took off the teensy and re soldered it but it doesnt look like i needed to. it looks terrible now (the condition of the teensy) but it works

now to the next hand

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #245 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 14:43:02 »
How far from beta production would you estimate this to be?  I would like to get in on that for 3 boards please.
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #246 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 16:07:45 »
i should mention i got the hand working 100%

Remember this http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61306.msg1450599#msg1450599

well it seems a very small trace remained, meaning when i pressed the 4 key, R2 and R6 crossed. exacto knife and it worked

i actually took off the teensy and re soldered it but it doesnt look like i needed to. it looks terrible now (the condition of the teensy) but it works

now to the next hand

Yay!  Good job, and always test your cuts and jumps with a meter or continuity tester.  Those little traces hold on for dear life sometimes!

How far from beta production would you estimate this to be?  I would like to get in on that for 3 boards please.

The delay now is to get more experience from other people building boards.  At a guess, four weeks or so before I ask for Beta orders.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #247 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 16:59:44 »
alright so its built for a couple hours now. I used a mix of ergo-clears and clears i had laying around, so i have been trying different layouts and i think i have figured out what i want to do. it is similar to my ergodox layout https://flic.kr/p/onBsDc

i apologize ron for taking your idea to a different direction by moving up the key assignments and using 2 teensy instead of doing a connection in the middle

i am typing on it now though sucessfully




(look how much that teensy went through hell coming off)

i used some spare acrylic bars i had from a broken poker case to hold up the back, held on with mounting tape



i also used mounting tack/tape to add to bottom to level out the keyboard as there is a slight bend in the PCB, it also keeps the keyboard from sliding around



preferably i think having a case would be better, i know it would, but this is usable. a bit strange to type on compared to my ergodox. i like the way it feels for wasd gaming, ill give it a spin for awhile and see how it goes. i will most likely find i need a case.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #248 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 17:52:12 »
alright so its built for a couple hours now. I used a mix of ergo-clears and clears i had laying around, so i have been trying different layouts and i think i have figured out what i want to do. it is similar to my ergodox layout https://flic.kr/p/onBsDc

i apologize ron for taking your idea to a different direction by moving up the key assignments and using 2 teensy instead of doing a connection in the middle

i am typing on it now though sucessfully

Show Image


Show Image

(look how much that teensy went through hell coming off)

i used some spare acrylic bars i had from a broken poker case to hold up the back, held on with mounting tape

Show Image


i also used mounting tack/tape to add to bottom to level out the keyboard as there is a slight bend in the PCB, it also keeps the keyboard from sliding around

Show Image


preferably i think having a case would be better, i know it would, but this is usable. a bit strange to type on compared to my ergodox. i like the way it feels for wasd gaming, ill give it a spin for awhile and see how it goes. i will most likely find i need a case.

Awesome!  Now there are FIVE GH36 keypads built.

I like the F-key row at the bottom.  Interesting, that.  Do you want a couple of 2x Retro DSA keycaps for spacebars?  I am pretty sure I have some left.

Anyhow, congratulations!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Glod

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Re: Introducing the GH36 Programmable Matrix Keypad
« Reply #249 on: Thu, 09 October 2014, 17:57:30 »
i have some 2x retro, i actually want it like this, i want to have my function as a easily reachable thumb key :) i doubt id be able to get this to work for me without making it close to my ergodox layout

loving the way this feels with gaming compared to ergodox, however really not used to it for typing. i think a case would help