MiTo signing off, goodbye GeekHack.

[Synjin]

Sorry Mito but sometimes it only takes 1 mistake to ruin a man online. Unfortunately, you made more than one and kept digging your grave deeper and deeper which caused some to hold grudges against you and the others to simply not give a ****. I hope you enjoy the rest of your life doing whatever you choose to in the future and I hope you learned a lesson here

[ideus]

aww man i was enjoying the drama

has anyone that made a big deal about leaving gh ever actually left?  where making a new account counts as not leaving?

I've tried leaving several times.  GH is like an abusive girlfriend that is really good in the bed.

I like this pal, it makes me smile, an awesome imagination is needed to figure this metaphor out.

[Monidas]

Another member bullied into leaving due to drama that folks refuse to resolve like adults?

Boy, I would've never expected that from Geekhack.

My thoughts exactly.

[tbc]

Another member bullied into leaving due to drama that folks refuse to resolve like adults?

Boy, I would've never expected that from Geekhack.

he hasn't left...?

[frosty]

Well, good bye and good luck in your future endeavors. If you want to get Geekhack, DT, r/MK, whatever off your mind, don't check then.

[berserkfan]

Reading this, I can see the adults, the children, and the emotional youngsters in all their glory.

Because I often have conversations with 0 or low post count people (who want to buy something from me), once again let me urge all of you lurker guys out there, please join in, don't just lurk.

When you have conversations and reveal yourself, only then you can build credibility. One zero-post count guy I was talking to just got banned for suspicious activity. Now we will never know if he was just socially wrong (and therefore set off the wrong alarms in the mods' minds), but if you guys talk, get involved, discuss, put forward your views, it will all flesh you out as a human being and make it easier on you in the future when doing business.

[FrostyToast]

[heedpantsnow]

LOL I wonder if he's still reading this.  If so, Mito, do yourself a favor and don't keep looking.  You'll only get sucked back in!

[Krogenar]

It's never good to lose a member.

Well said.

I didn't follow this whole tempest, but what I take away from it is this:
To be a successful GB organizer (traditional or PMK) tt's not enough to be creative, you have to be diplomatic to some degree and have a capacity to eat some crap. I'm fine with the former, the latter is an unfortunate reality here on GH.

Also, MiTo, you seem to place nearly all the blame for your leaving on others -- not that that isn't necessarily true, but I feel a lot more confident in an organizer who doesn't blamestorm when things go south.

I predict he'll grow up a bit more, and be back, which would be a good thing.

[Matt3o]

I don't know what happened but what saddens me a little is that, even though the guy already apologized, people still tell him to "man up". He is a drama-queen, so what? Why humiliating him during his swan song?

- Help! they buried me alive!
- yeah, and they buried you very badly!

but --hey-- this is the internet! so I guess everything's fine.

[tp4tissue]

I don't know what happened but what saddens me a little is that, even though the guy already apologized, people still tell him to "man up". He is a drama-queen, so what? Why humiliating him during his swan song?

- Help! they buried me alive!
- yeah, and they buried you very badly!

but --hey-- this is the internet! so I guess everything's fine.

That's my point as well..

I will be extra upset, if in a couple days.. GH goes down again.. yes paranoia...

[iri]

LOL I wonder if he's still reading this.  If so, Mito, do yourself a favor and don't keep looking.  You'll only get sucked back in!

[ideus]

Drama queens don't make good social companions, even less group leaders. I do not know MiTo, and I am not referring to him/her, I am only pointing a lesson we should learned.

[Monidas]

I don't know what happened but what saddens me a little is that, even though the guy already apologized, people still tell him to "man up". He is a drama-queen, so what? Why humiliating him during his swan song?

- Help! they buried me alive!
- yeah, and they buried you very badly!

but --hey-- this is the internet! so I guess everything's fine.

I agree. For all I know, MiTo may have done things wrong and he may have been disrespectful towards others. The reaction to all that, however, has been a very sad thing to witness.

[jdcarpe]

If you really need to read the past record, it's all there, and either BunnyLake or I could provide you the links. But we have preferred to leave that stuff in the past and not trash a guy as he is leaving.

[Lurch]

GH is a special place.

[DrHubblePhD]

If you really need to read the past record, it's all there, and either BunnyLake or I could provide you the links. But we have preferred to leave that stuff in the past and not trash a guy as he is leaving.

I applaud you guys for this, bieng the better men.

[skrotnisse]

That's what happens when you dun goofed.

[ideus]

It is interesting that we are all talking as saints ready to throw some rocks on the only single ugly sinner that is leaving GH. Who is the one that has never made a mistake, that can hit him first?

[fohat.digs]

TL; DR

In coin collecting, it is acceptable to produce a perfect beautiful copy of a coin, as long as "COPY" is embossed into the metal.

If not, then you are counterfeiting, and counterfeiting is a huge crime in every country.

[trowels]

Hi everyone. Long time lurker here....


I don't really know what to say, since I found this thread while searching for some information on why Cospar never launched.

I discovered mech's about a year ago and I'm still clacking on a ****ty chinese model with browns. But, Cospar was the first set of caps that really made me excited. In fact, I'd planned for months to make it my first set.

So, this post is half cautionary tale, half gripe --

Cautionary Tale -- Casual fans, if you're like me -- participate!!! I checked the Cospar post daily, yet never contributed to it. Why? Well, part was a lack of understanding of the community. I was under the impression that if something had the votes on PMK, it was going to happen, and I didn't need to jump into a conversation of things that was WAY over my head -- just wait patiently and click "buy" when the GB went live. Now, I know it's not that simple.

Gripe -- This seems like an excellent way to make sure the mechanical keyboard community stays niche. As an "outsider," stumbling across this thread makes me want to turn and run the other way. If this is how the community treats each other, I'll find another hobby. Remember how I mentioned above my reluctance to participate in the thread? Well, it can be a less-than-inviting community, just based on the sort of "secret code" nature of the mech lexicon -- SA vs DSA vs DCS vs..... agh!!! Situations like this are definitely going to raise that barrier of entry.


Some other observations:

• MiTo did mention Signature being pretty "strange." As an outsider, I can definitely agree that the whole PMK situation is "strange," at best. Probably because you're looking at a boutique manufacturer trying to step into a market drastically different than the one they actually know how to market to. But the site's hosting has been spotty, he's right about mobile, and it's a little confusing who you're actually buying from. That said, it's a bit much to expect signature to change their entire business model on something that's exploded in the past 12-18 months.
• Sadly, it appears that while MiTo was a talented designer, he lacks similar ability as a businessman. His "taking my ball and going home" approach alienates potential customers like me and when he eventually wants to do another group buy, I'll just ignore him.
  
• What are the ethics/rules on someone else building Cospar SA? How does copyright work in this situation? Frankly, I've been picturing this set on my keyboard for a month, and I'm not ready to give up.
  

[FrostyToast]

Haha, trowels I actually didn't even know the difference between SA and DSA until a couple of months ago....
Pretty shameful really.

[trowels]

Haha, trowels I actually didn't even know the difference between SA and DSA until a couple of months ago....
Pretty shameful really.

I'm still in somewhat of the "...and now I'm afraid to ask" territory. :-)

[DrHubblePhD]

Hi everyone. Long time lurker here....


I don't really know what to say, since I found this thread while searching for some information on why Cospar never launched.

I discovered mech's about a year ago and I'm still clacking on a ****ty chinese model with browns. But, Cospar was the first set of caps that really made me excited. In fact, I'd planned for months to make it my first set.

So, this post is half cautionary tale, half gripe --

Cautionary Tale -- Casual fans, if you're like me -- participate!!! I checked the Cospar post daily, yet never contributed to it. Why? Well, part was a lack of understanding of the community. I was under the impression that if something had the votes on PMK, it was going to happen, and I didn't need to jump into a conversation of things that was WAY over my head -- just wait patiently and click "buy" when the GB went live. Now, I know it's not that simple.

Gripe -- This seems like an excellent way to make sure the mechanical keyboard community stays niche. As an "outsider," stumbling across this thread makes me want to turn and run the other way. If this is how the community treats each other, I'll find another hobby. Remember how I mentioned above my reluctance to participate in the thread? Well, it can be a less-than-inviting community, just based on the sort of "secret code" nature of the mech lexicon -- SA vs DSA vs DCS vs..... agh!!! Situations like this are definitely going to raise that barrier of entry.


Some other observations:

• MiTo did mention Signature being pretty "strange." As an outsider, I can definitely agree that the whole PMK situation is "strange," at best. Probably because you're looking at a boutique manufacturer trying to step into a market drastically different than the one they actually know how to market to. But the site's hosting has been spotty, he's right about mobile, and it's a little confusing who you're actually buying from. That said, it's a bit much to expect signature to change their entire business model on something that's exploded in the past 12-18 months.
• Sadly, it appears that while MiTo was a talented designer, he lacks similar ability as a businessman. His "taking my ball and going home" approach alienates potential customers like me and when he eventually wants to do another group buy, I'll just ignore him.
  
• What are the ethics/rules on someone else building Cospar SA? How does copyright work in this situation? Frankly, I've been picturing this set on my keyboard for a month, and I'm not ready to give up.
  

I really apreciate what you said here. For sure he may have had the right intention at the time, but the internet does not forget and what happens in the past instantly transfers to the future. I think if it was up to some of the senior members of the geekhack community, Mitto would have been kicked off a long time ago.

I was also a lurker for a little while, maybe not as long as you by the sound of it, and I feel how it can be uncomfortable to step into something so niche like this where everyone already has a preconception of everything. Overall, I think that we all need to be more willing to learn and accept when people need help, not discipline. Whenever we enter new, vast, quantities of information we must all be ready to make mistakes. The difference is that it seems Mitto never learned from his, and that is a capital crime.

P.S. this comes from an outsider regarding the true timeline of his actions, however I think my judgement is still just. 

[tbc]

correcr me if i'm wrong, but mito didn't realize the rshift problem.

he nearly ****ed over literally hundreds of buyers cause he didn't want to look stupid and admit he didn't understand how SA profile works.

[trowels]

Tbc -- learning opportunity for me. I see that there was some discussion about changing text on the shifts -- what was the "rshift problem?"

[FrostyToast]

Haha, trowels I actually didn't even know the difference between SA and DSA until a couple of months ago....
Pretty shameful really.

I'm still in somewhat of the "...and now I'm afraid to ask" territory. :-)

If you want to rapidly fire off a **** ton of questions, just add me on steam or skype and I will gladly take care of all of them to the best of my ability.
However the only problem is that I currently don't have a microphone.

[DrHubblePhD]

correcr me if i'm wrong, but mito didn't realize the rshift problem.

he nearly ****ed over literally hundreds of buyers cause he didn't want to look stupid and admit he didn't understand how SA profile works.

Im not sure, but this is precisely what I am talking about. Admitting you are wrong is difficult, especially in a place where everyone pretends to know everything (you know who you are).

[Novus]

TL; DR

In coin collecting, it is acceptable to produce a perfect beautiful copy of a coin, as long as "COPY" is embossed into the metal.

If not, then you are counterfeiting, and counterfeiting is a huge crime in every country.

Except money is its own different thing and is governed by financial regulations.
That coin collecting example doesn't really apply here because that falls more in line with counterfeiting money as opposed to another product.

Copyrights, patents and such are governed by different laws.
Morally it's wrong to copy designs and such but unless you've got a patent or copywrite or some other legal thing it's not technically wrong enforceable. Without making the proper prior arrangements, you won't be able to establish that your work has been infringed upon.

[Synjin]

Still rude of Mito to say the things he did though considering bunny and the others were entitled to their own opinion as was he.

[HoffmanMyster]

Haha, trowels I actually didn't even know the difference between SA and DSA until a couple of months ago....
Pretty shameful really.

I'm still in somewhat of the "...and now I'm afraid to ask" territory. :-)

If you want to rapidly fire off a **** ton of questions, just add me on steam or skype and I will gladly take care of all of them to the best of my ability.
However the only problem is that I currently don't have a microphone.

Also, don't be afraid to use the Simple Questions thread! If the information is not in the OP or obscenely Google-able, it's fair game.   

Also also, as many of you know, I'm always open to questions on a wide range of topics, from moderator things to simple keyboard questions. If I don't know the answer I'll point you to someone who does.    Feel free to PM me any time.

Just a random aside. 

[byker]

Haha, trowels I actually didn't even know the difference between SA and DSA until a couple of months ago....
Pretty shameful really.

I'm still in somewhat of the "...and now I'm afraid to ask" territory. :-)

If you want to rapidly fire off a **** ton of questions, just add me on steam or skype and I will gladly take care of all of them to the best of my ability.
However the only problem is that I currently don't have a microphone.

Also, don't be afraid to use the Simple Questions thread! If the information is not in the OP or obscenely Google-able, it's fair game.   

Also also, as many of you know, I'm always open to questions on a wide range of topics, from moderator things to simple keyboard questions. If I don't know the answer I'll point you to someone who does.    Feel free to PM me any time.

Just a random aside. 

You never answer my PMs. 

As an aside, Geekhack is the friendliest community I have seen, so don't get discouraged. I have seen probably 5? giveaways in the past week!

[HoffmanMyster]

Haha, trowels I actually didn't even know the difference between SA and DSA until a couple of months ago....
Pretty shameful really.

I'm still in somewhat of the "...and now I'm afraid to ask" territory. :-)

If you want to rapidly fire off a **** ton of questions, just add me on steam or skype and I will gladly take care of all of them to the best of my ability.
However the only problem is that I currently don't have a microphone.

Also, don't be afraid to use the Simple Questions thread! If the information is not in the OP or obscenely Google-able, it's fair game.   

Also also, as many of you know, I'm always open to questions on a wide range of topics, from moderator things to simple keyboard questions. If I don't know the answer I'll point you to someone who does.    Feel free to PM me any time.

Just a random aside. 

You never answer my PMs. 

I only have one outstanding from you! And I'm sorry about that, that's a big discussion point and isn't a quick response. There is a response coming. 

[byker]

No worries.. I was just teasing really.  )

[Synjin]

Haha, trowels I actually didn't even know the difference between SA and DSA until a couple of months ago....
Pretty shameful really.

I'm still in somewhat of the "...and now I'm afraid to ask" territory. :-)

Most of the people here are super nice amd Hoff is definately one of them. Ever since I started in this forums, I've asked him tons and tons of questions if not tried his best to help me out every single time .

[jacobolus]

Copyrights, patents and such are governed by laws.  That doesn't really apply here.  Morally it's wrong to copy designs and such but unless you've got a patent or copywrite or some other legal thing it's not technically wrong.

Keycap designs are absolutely covered under copyright, and copyright is automatic (that is, comes into force when a work is created, and does not need any explicit registration) and applies across borders in most of the world, and definitely applies to goods being sold in western countries. The copied keycap designs are absolutely copyright violations, and if anyone was inclined legal action could be brought against the violators.

However, real enforcement in this particular case is close to impossible: filing a lawsuit would be expensive, and I believe the guys making the counterfeit caps are in Malaysia (or was it Vietnam), a country where all kinds of pirate products proliferate. Getting Malaysian courts to punish a guy counterfeiting keycaps of all things would be a complicated and expensive process, without necessarily much chance of success.

Rolex or Prada can get US customs to (try to) seize counterfeit products at the border and confiscate them, but that also sounds pretty unlikely for some keycaps. Way too small scale to be worth going after.

However, selling these products is almost certainly illegal (in addition to being unethical). That is, contrary to your comment, it is indeed “technically wrong”.

[Novus]

Keycap designs are absolutely covered under copyright, and copyright is automatic (that is, comes into force when a work is created, and does not need any explicit registration) and applies across borders in most of the world, and definitely applies to goods being sold in western countries. The copied keycap designs are absolutely copyright violations, and if anyone was inclined legal action could be brought against the violators.

You can't actually seek significant legal action and claim damages if you don't formally register your work.
Automatic copyright doesn't actually cover your base in that regard.

[jacobolus]

You can't actually seek significant legal action and claim damages if you don't formally register your work. Automatic copyright doesn't actually cover your base in that regard.

That’s true, registering the design with the copyright office would be part of the process of actually doing something about the counterfeiting, and part of the reason why enforcement is unrealistic in this case: the amounts of money we’re talking about, however substantial to individual artisan keycap makers, are too trivial to make it worth going through registering with the copyright office and then figuring out how to file a lawsuit against a southeast asian counterfeiter. But the copyright infringement is nonetheless still illegal.

[whentheclouds]

I'm still in somewhat of the "...and now I'm afraid to ask" territory. :-)

Most of the people here are super nice amd Hoff is definately one of them. Ever since I started in this forums, I've asked him tons and tons of questions if not tried his best to help me out every single time .

yep, no reason to be afraid of something as simple as asking a question on a message board. CptBadass and Bluebar answer almost all of mine and i'm very grateful for their help

[berserkfan]

Not wanting to plough through lots of posts, can I just ask whether MiTo was actually supporting counterfeiting of clacks, or whether he was supporting Imitations with no intention of deceiving?

There's a difference here.

I feel sad that things got so emotional that someone just up and left. I think he was being emotional and suspect he's young/ immature, but still perhaps we could have handled this differently. MiTO was clearly the creative type more than the engineer type, and that type are more prone to histrionics.

[Matt3o]

it doesn't make much difference.

he apologized and subsequently changed his mind.

[MOZ]

I just want to say that geekhack is definitely one of the most friendly communities I've been on, if you want super friendly, then go to www.wtf.com.

[rioc]

Dude... so sad to hear this. I was really looking forward to the Cospar set until someone recently told me you quit "the game" and referred to this post...

edit: diplomatic adjustments

[trizkut]

Dude... so sad to hear this. I was really looking forward to the Cospar set until someone recently told me you quite "the game" and referred to this post...

Did this manage to make you quit entirely or have you just got enough with this specific community? You'd be more than welcome in other communities and be welcomed with open arms and warm greetings. We could even try to heal your wounds...?

If not, I don't blame you, some people can be so ruthless with no regards for the feelings of others (like the ones who made you quit) it makes me sick.

Kindest regards

PS: yes, I also expressed my opinion in other forums about this, if you want to search for it and keep the drama alive like little kids...

You know what's a good way of "keeping the drama alive like little kids"?  Bumping a 6 month old thread that everyone forgot about.

[MAR82]

PS: yes, I also expressed my opinion in other forums about this, if you want to search for it and keep the drama alive like little kids...

Saying this, make me think you're looking for the drama. Calm down dude, and read up a bit more on Mito or whatever he wants to call himself.
I liked his work, I have a Pulse set and love it. But he supports counterfeit cap makers (we all know who), thinks WAY too highly of himself, and just comes off like a prick

[rowdy]

Dude... so sad to hear this. I was really looking forward to the Cospar set until someone recently told me you quite "the game" and referred to this post...

Did this manage to make you quit entirely or have you just got enough with this specific community? You'd be more than welcome in other communities and be welcomed with open arms and warm greetings. We could even try to heal your wounds...?

If not, I don't blame you, some people can be so ruthless with no regards for the feelings of others (like the ones who made you quit) it makes me sick.

Kindest regards

PS: yes, I also expressed my opinion in other forums about this, if you want to search for it and keep the drama alive like little kids...

You know what's a good way of "keeping the drama alive like little kids"?  Bumping a 6 month old thread that everyone forgot about.

6 months and 2 days, actually

[Matt3o]

[dante]

[SpAmRaY]

Dude... so sad to hear this. I was really looking forward to the Cospar set until someone recently told me you quite "the game" and referred to this post...

Did this manage to make you quit entirely or have you just got enough with this specific community? You'd be more than welcome in other communities and be welcomed with open arms and warm greetings. We could even try to heal your wounds...?

If not, I don't blame you, some people can be so ruthless with no regards for the feelings of others (like the ones who made you quit) it makes me sick.

Kindest regards

PS: yes, I also expressed my opinion in other forums about this, if you want to search for it and keep the drama alive like little kids...

He is still around

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/35xoob/interest_check_dsa_keydset_by_mito/

Edited for clarification. 

[DrHubblePhD]

He is still around

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/35xoob/interest_check_dsa_keydset_by_mito/

Why did you necro this?

Edit: why isn't this thread locked?