Author Topic: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice  (Read 210360 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3283
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #150 on: Thu, 28 May 2020, 20:45:58 »
It's the standard D2fc or a slightly altered version, Microsoft did similar years ago. From what I saw it seems MS basically just had them up the lifespan, which is what we all use now.

You want the 75gram version.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline sdmf74

  • Posts: 2
  • Location: IOWA
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #151 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 06:51:44 »
Thanks for the reply guys! Can you elaborate on why the 75g's, Ill check out that link  :thumb:

Oh did I see someone posted a pic and another discussed Kailh & gateron mouse switches? I would be interested in
more info on those and a purchase link or heads up.

Jeez I hope I dont have to keep doing these post verifications for every post for ever  :confused:
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 May 2020, 06:55:11 by sdmf74 »

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3283
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #152 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 07:14:50 »
Because you don't want a 150g switch on your mouse.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 12968
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #153 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 10:39:56 »
Because you don't want a 150g switch on your mouse.

Well, some pro gamers use it, because they play with a lift off technique where they swipe and lift the mouse when they get wide.

The heavier switch helps prevent accidental triggering when the mouse air-drops.

Obviously, if a person doesn't need this function, they wouldn't want heavier switches.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3283
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #154 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 21:15:09 »
I thought about putting one in the right side of my G900 as it's just ridiculously sensitive, but 150g is a heck of a lot and woudl be even worse on a mouse using hinges.


I've done the lift, never had an issue with false clicks. G900 is the only mouse I've had this issue with and it happens at rest.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline chrisdewit

  • Posts: 1
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #155 on: Sat, 13 June 2020, 23:15:29 »
Hi everyone. I found this thread some time back when I was researching what I was sure was a micro switch failure on my Corsair M65. This thread helped me find the switch I wanted and move forward on my repair.

I made a write up about it and threw it up on Imgur.

Thanks for having this thread up.

https://imgur.com/a/SYoRHGR

Also I found this PDF in the process. Check out Page 6 for a laugh.

http://en.chanlin-ele.com/Uploads/201601/568ce2c9eeda4.pdf

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3283
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #156 on: Wed, 17 June 2020, 02:29:48 »
Guide updated for 2020.
Added info from chrisdewit and Keebon, corrected some other info and tried to make it a bit faster for those just wanting quick answers.


My current advice.
D2F-F or D2F-01-F (in that order) if you want the better sealed Japanese switch which happens to be 75gram (yes, it's stiffer) or if you still want a 60gram switch stick with the D2FC-F-K. Avoid every other D2FC, they just don't work well in modern mice. All are out of the recommended operating range but they are a lot closer than then the common D2FC (the K may or may not be as good as the Japanese D2F).

G900/903 owners (and those having accidental clicks), switch to the Japanese switches, it really helped me with that problem by adding just a bit more resistance.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline downtownHippie

  • Posts: 29
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #157 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 20:44:09 »
There is one less G903 with Chinese switches out there now.  I'd like to thank you all for your help.

Offline Filmore Graves

  • Posts: 3
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #158 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 00:01:43 »

...snip...



Popular Mice and what switches they use:
80% or more of all mice use them, and it's even more common at the high end.

Known to use alternatives:
Corsair
Razer
Steelseries

Exclusively use Omrons or almost exclusively:
Asus
Logitech
Cooler Master
Roccat

With Logitech, the newer and more expensive the mouse, the higher the lifespan rating as well.


...snip...

What do you mean by "alternatives"?

I am asking as I have been in the corsair forums reading up last years or so and it seems the corsair are having huge issues with double clicking and failing switch and I was under the impression they are using the chinese omron switches?

BTW Great guide I am quite happy I ran into this so ty for keeping it going!

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3283
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #159 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 02:01:17 »
You're welcome.

Some older Corsair models used some other switches but almost anything true gamer or high end is going to be using Omrons, it's a selling point. It's not that alternatives are rare, they're just rare in the mice we use (i.e. people who care about peripherals). It's VERY, VERY easy to damage these switches, it doesn't help we are now undervolting/amping them, so failure rates are way higher than than the 50m lifespans being promoted because the mice manufacturers are using them out of spec.

Which is another thing, don't let them tell you "they're probably dirty" (looking at you Logitech), it's BS and they know it. They're just brushing you off hoping to get you past warranty. These companies know it's out of spec, but they boxed themselves into a corner promoting these switches, look at how we reacted to Razed abandoning Cherry Switches.


As for alternatives they may be using:
Kinzu, Kana, Himake, Panasonic, Huanos, Zippy, Qiaoh and TTF
Keep in mind, not all of these are perfect direct fits and figuring it out is another rabbit hole.

My advice, buy a mouse you can access the switches in easily (G700 was a NIGHTMARE, G900/903 is pretty easy, Asus has some that make it easy) by checking teardowns and then upgrade to the Japanese switches once one of them dies. I do NOT condone doing it before then but I recommend doing both at the same time. Also check your warranty before doing anything, you may be able to finagle a free one then repair it.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Filmore Graves

  • Posts: 3
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #160 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 04:25:38 »
Ah yes I watched the hour long video so I can see how out of spec switches could be an issue. It's a little odd how out of spec switches could be a selling point though... lol  The technician in me just cringes when I think about that and how they sell mice for 100$ plus, well at least in my area, with switches they know are no longer appropriate for the circuitry they are using.

That said mice is not something I ever bothered fixing or trying to before I got my first original razer naga mouse and it started having left click issues, I fixed that by placing a thin sheet of metal over the tab that presses on the switch button as the plastic tab had a worn down indent on it.  Eventually I replaced that with a g600 which I just chucked as it was falling apart, I am a bit rough with my mice tbh though lol.  I am actually back to using the naga I had stored away. It works but the top is kind of yucky and gummy.

It's funny you mention Asus I was looking at maybe trying the ASUS ROG Gladius II 12000 DPI which has socketed switches which are simply pull n replace.

Still thinking about it though as I might like to try a Corsair Scimitar RGB Elite but I dunno if I wanna pay 130$ for a mouse that will have china omrons there's also the naga trinity which looks interesting however I definitely want a mouse I can remove the the china omrons when they fail/start messing up and solder in jap omrons.  Soldering isn't a problem for me.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3283
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #161 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 04:51:44 »
I dunno if I wanna pay 130$ for a mouse that will have china omrons
Not sure any come with Japanese Omrons pre-installed, but you should get a year or more from the Chinese ones.

I look at the Asus Galdius all the time and I always come back to one simple truth... I use wireless and for that no one beats Logitech, say what you will but their wireless systems are far and away the best out there.

By the way, while you do have to remove the feet and screws you can buy plug in Omrons for the g900/903 as well. They're mounted on tiny daughter boards that plug in. Not quite the Asus method but a step in the right direction. If only they wouldn't hide the screws under the feet. So close...
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 12968
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #162 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 06:03:07 »
Also with mouse pcbs, make sure you put something tough under the pins when you plug them in, sometimes it can pop the pin and break the trace.

Tp4 has done it,  it's not hard to fix becuz Tp4 = Xpert Wizard Lvl Mouser , but for anyone else, it could be trouble.

Offline Filmore Graves

  • Posts: 3
Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #163 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 10:35:22 »
I dunno if I wanna pay 130$ for a mouse that will have china omrons
Not sure any come with Japanese Omrons pre-installed, but you should get a year or more from the Chinese ones.

I look at the Asus Galdius all the time and I always come back to one simple truth... I use wireless and for that no one beats Logitech, say what you will but their wireless systems are far and away the best out there.

By the way, while you do have to remove the feet and screws you can buy plug in Omrons for the g900/903 as well. They're mounted on tiny daughter boards that plug in. Not quite the Asus method but a step in the right direction. If only they wouldn't hide the screws under the feet. So close...

Yeah the gladius comes with two extra jap omron's which is quite appealing and I don't care about wireless but I can see how it could be a priority for many and yeah I do not like screws hidden under feet or labels etc either!



Also with mouse pcbs, make sure you put something tough under the pins when you plug them in, sometimes it can pop the pin and break the trace.

Tp4 has done it,  it's not hard to fix becuz Tp4 = Xpert Wizard Lvl Mouser , but for anyone else, it could be trouble.


Thanks for the tip! I should be all good as I have been soldering for awhile, My first full time job was doing audio (cassette tapes) and vcr repair!  It's good to know ahead of time that they are fragile in mice and require an extra soft touch though. :)


Oh btw is the captcha image verification thing something we always have to do in these forums or is it just for newbies with newly created accounts?
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 August 2020, 10:37:55 by Filmore Graves »