Kabylake

[tp4tissue]

Well that was underwhelming....

Right around christmas..  nothing to buy...

[dante]

I'm 3-5 generations behind everything else on the market.  I'm waiting for a breakthrough.  (or my lappy to die...)

[tp4tissue]

I'm 3-5 generations behind everything else on the market.  I'm waiting for a breakthrough.  (or my lappy to die...)

I feel like even if there is a break through.

They wouldn't give it to you..   they'd just pace it out over 10 years slowly.

[YoungMichael88]

I got a new laptop about a month ago that has a kaby i5 7200U in it

[osi]

The 4790k is still going strong here

[clappingcactus]

The time to upgrade will be late 2018/early 2019. If you're on a 2500k you're fine until then. Only then when AVX 512 be fully implemented, and software will start using that instruction set to its full potential (leaving behind older generations of processors).

But that's not until Cannonlake. If you upgrade in the mean time, you should only do it to the highest level i5 from two generations ago if you're interested in gaming, or a medium range i7 from a generation ago (skylake) if you're interested in video rendering. That's the most bang for your buck.

[tp4tissue]

The time to upgrade will be late 2018/early 2019. If you're on a 2500k you're fine until then. Only then when AVX 512 be fully implemented, and software will start using that instruction set to its full potential (leaving behind older generations of processors).

But that's not until Cannonlake. If you upgrade in the mean time, you should only do it to the highest level i5 from two generations ago if you're interested in gaming, or a medium range i7 from a generation ago (skylake) if you're interested in video rendering. That's the most bang for your buck.

avx ? ... think 10 years before it really gets into consumer software.. hahahahhaha..


I don't think that avx really matters to consumer level software, because even if the performance is there..   The raw speed of the CPU with or without avx instruction set is enough to satisfy gaming/productivity.


Avx and more advanced stuff is less impactful in consumer space vs, science/ big data.

[clappingcactus]

The time to upgrade will be late 2018/early 2019. If you're on a 2500k you're fine until then. Only then when AVX 512 be fully implemented, and software will start using that instruction set to its full potential (leaving behind older generations of processors).

But that's not until Cannonlake. If you upgrade in the mean time, you should only do it to the highest level i5 from two generations ago if you're interested in gaming, or a medium range i7 from a generation ago (skylake) if you're interested in video rendering. That's the most bang for your buck.

avx ? ... think 10 years before it really gets into consumer software.. hahahahhaha..


I don't think that avx really matters to consumer level software, because even if the performance is there..   The raw speed of the CPU with or without avx instruction set is enough to satisfy gaming/productivity.


Avx and more advanced stuff is less impactful in consumer space vs, science/ big data.

Completely agreed ... if consumer software wasn't already moving towards having integrated neural networks. It won't be long before the kind of software that powers google dreaming computer and prisma's filtering app make it over to desktop software. You can bet that Adobe is already pouring ridiculous resources into getting it to work for their blending and masking tools and that Google's next Photos client will be the most advanced people have ever seen.

Blender already uses AVX and soon all those distributed computing networks (@Home et al.) will also be using AVX implementations. I think a majority of people who leave their computers on 24/7 have run at least one of those softwares at some point, and so it stands to reason that even under idle conditions, a majority of desktop owners will appreciate the upgrade. I know this is a completely niche and momentary advantage, but desktops are going to become more specialized than ever. And that new instruction set will be THE place to eke out performance gains as we hit the theoretical limit of die-shrinks. If Cannonlake is on 10nm, then we might only have one die-shrink to go, and best case scenario two, making it THE next platform for computing to evolve from.

[Coreda]

It won't be long before the kind of software that powers google dreaming computer and prisma's filtering app make it over to desktop software.

It already is though. Prisma appears to be based on Neutral Style with a custom set of reference filter images and style modifications (which also powers Ostagram, an arguably more impressive online fork but one which due to being able to use any filter requires more thought).

As for Google's Deep Dreaming that's also possible to run locally. If by desktop software you mean consumer friendly then yeah, there haven't been any easy-to-use front-ends I've seen. Pretty exciting developments.

[clappingcactus]

As for Google's Deep Dreaming that's also possible to run locally. If by desktop software you mean consumer friendly then yeah, there haven't been any easy-to-use front-ends I've seen. Pretty exciting developments.

Yeah that's more what I meant. Right now as it is, this stuff is just getting off the ground!

Btw thanks, had no idea that Prisma was only an implementation of something pre-existing (or that Ostagram existed).

[tp4tissue]

Can't wait to get my cybernetics implant.. 


I think the body runs on something like 40watthr

it's gonna be tough to compete using semiconductors..

[vivalarevolución]

Kaby Lake is just slightly beefed up Skylake.  The last couple generations seem focused on battery life improvement and better integrated graphics (which still aren't better than medium-range GPUs, from what I understand).   Performance improvements are incremental at this point.  For most users, they won't even notice the performance improvements, anyways.

[tp4tissue]

Kaby Lake is just slightly beefed up Skylake.  The last couple generations seem focused on battery life improvement and better integrated graphics (which still aren't better than medium-range GPUs, from what I understand).   Performance improvements are incremental at this point.  For most users, they won't even notice the performance improvements, anyways.

Zen is going to beat the i5 line on multicore tasks...

That's why they opened the i3 line for k series.


G4m3rs still going to buy intel..   Buh.. the gap is closing..


I think IDEALLY,  AMD should just do what it did with the HD4870, 

Price it at 50% of the competition.


They might not make money, but they'd create huge momentum in their direction..

And that's important because there's just no confidence in an AMD build right now.

We've had 10 years of Intel's total domination..



For $150 8 core 16 threads...  who wouldn't be on board..



The problem right now, if they price it at $300 is,    The CPU is only 25-30% of total system cost..


If you're down 10-20 % IPC, there's already no compelling advantage for your product..


But if you're down 10-20% ipc, with a 15% reduction in (TOTAL system price)..   That 's the only way to make parity.

That requires AMD to make the concession.. because motherboards don't have the margin of CPUs.. nothing else can be cut..

[vivalarevolución]

Zen?  What do you mean by Zen?  Sorry if I'm being too newbish here.

[Air tree]

Zen?  What do you mean by Zen?  Sorry if I'm being too newbish here.

Zen (Now under the name ryzen) is AMD's new line of CPU's.

[Belfong]

Just got myself a 7700K! Pretty excited about this upgrade. My last PC was 10 year old (Core 2 Quad), so there. It's long in the tooth, and now I have a ninja beast!

[tp4tissue]

Just got myself a 7700K! Pretty excited about this upgrade. My last PC was 10 year old (Core 2 Quad), so there. It's long in the tooth, and now I have a ninja beast!

Delid is going to give you approximately 15 to 20 Celcius Drop.


You can do it with hammer vise method,  OR you could diy a delid tool via some wood or 3d printer..


Take dat overclocking to 5GHZ..   

[Belfong]

I am not as adventurous tp4. I am happy with just 4.2Ghz on all four cores at this moment. Strangely, my Windows is not able to connect to the Microsoft activation servers, so I am running on an unactivated Windows 10. Sucks!

[SBJ]

The 4790k is still going strong here

Hell to the yeah.
I'm extremely pleased with that purchase and don't feel the need to upgrade for now.
Maybe in a couple generations.

[tp4tissue]

I am not as adventurous tp4. I am happy with just 4.2Ghz on all four cores at this moment. Strangely, my Windows is not able to connect to the Microsoft activation servers, so I am running on an unactivated Windows 10. Sucks!

but, you're leaving performance on the table !!


Need I remind you of my Classic thread..  Overclocking = Time Travel..

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61160.0

[Belfong]

Why is it that when the hdd is spinning in a lot of read/write activity that the system hang for a second or two? I could be clicking here and there but no response and then lots the screen starts flash with lots of activities as if it's catching up on all my clickings.

Sounds like my HDD is being a bottleneck but surely it won't hang the machine.

[tp4tissue]

Why is it that when the hdd is spinning in a lot of read/write activity that the system hang for a second or two? I could be clicking here and there but no response and then lots the screen starts flash with lots of activities as if it's catching up on all my clickings.

Sounds like my HDD is being a bottleneck but surely it won't hang the machine.

It does hang the machine if the program files need to be loaded from different spots.

HDD only have ~0.3 MB/s  random read performance.

SSD  have 25-35MB/s random read performance.   That's almost 100+ X  faster..



You want to upgrade to an SSD as soon as possible, Even if it's a small one like 512 Gigabyte..   That is more than enough for your programs.


You put your video and music on the Old HDD,  they are access in a linear manner, which does not require seeking.


The SSD will be your working drive with ALLLLLL Programs , Scratch files , Games. 

------- For example, if you're running photoshop,  you'd want the SSD to be set as scratch drive..

[Leslieann]

TP has it correct, GET AN SSD.
It will like you upgraded that same amount, again, or more, no kidding. It's by far the single biggest upgrade you can make to a computer.

First time people use an SSD they are blown away by the difference, everything is super snappy.

[tp4tissue]

TP has it correct, GET AN SSD.
It will like you upgraded that same amount, again, or more, no kidding. It's by far the single biggest upgrade you can make to a computer.

First time people use an SSD they are blown away by the difference, everything is super snappy.

First time I used an SSD,  I realized that the first half of my life was a complete waste of time..

So experiences will vary upon upgrade.. hahahahahahahhaha

[Belfong]

My C: is a very old SSD. I think a first or second gen Intel 80GB X.25 SSD or something like that. Even then, it struggles to keep up.
I'm guessing it's my other 2 spinning drives that I Store games and media stuff that's dragging the PC down. Is there any optimization I need to do? I check Defrag and they are ok.

[tp4tissue]

My C: is a very old SSD. I think a first or second gen Intel 80GB X.25 SSD or something like that. Even then, it struggles to keep up.
I'm guessing it's my other 2 spinning drives that I Store games and media stuff that's dragging the PC down. Is there any optimization I need to do? I check Defrag and they are ok.

hahaha

Don't store games on hdd..  Many of the new games hit a ton of random i/o..

the intel 80 is pretty old, I wouldn't call it STRUGGLE,  but it's miles behind the newest ssds.


X25m does not support trim, the x25m G2 support trim.  which one do you have.. ??


Either way,  You'd want to get a newer nvme sandisk pcie ssd..

They're the budget go to..


GET 512gb,  because you'll fill up 256 really fast these days with them 60gb games.

[Leslieann]

My C: is a very old SSD. I think a first or second gen Intel 80GB X.25 SSD or something like that. Even then, it struggles to keep up.
I'm guessing it's my other 2 spinning drives that I Store games and media stuff that's dragging the PC down. Is there any optimization I need to do? I check Defrag and they are ok.

Your read speeds are half what even low end ssd's are today (barely exceeding sata2), and your write speeds are even worse.

Almost any SSD is better than no ssd, but yours is a bottleneck in your system.

[tp4tissue]

My C: is a very old SSD. I think a first or second gen Intel 80GB X.25 SSD or something like that. Even then, it struggles to keep up.
I'm guessing it's my other 2 spinning drives that I Store games and media stuff that's dragging the PC down. Is there any optimization I need to do? I check Defrag and they are ok.

Your read speeds are half what even low end ssd's are today (barely exceeding sata2), and your write speeds are even worse.

Almost any SSD is better than no ssd, but yours is a bottleneck in your system.

if it's the G1 that's being used,  the non-trim is the problem , it's bogged down __forever__,  but if it's the G2, then there shouldn't be any issues with it.

[Belfong]

At work now, no view of the X25 that I have at home.
I figure the SSD and SATA drives are pretty old for the Ninja 7700K that I have running. Will replace them soon. Should I go for PCIe SSD, which cost a BOM, or just a M.2?

Even then, I don't understand why it will freeze Windows for 2-3 second. Don't we have multi tasking or something? Sometimes, just clicking the Start button will freeze. I am not sure what the HDD are doing!

[tp4tissue]

At work now, no view of the X25 that I have at home.
I figure the SSD and SATA drives are pretty old for the Ninja 7700K that I have running. Will replace them soon. Should I go for PCIe SSD, which cost a BOM, or just a M.2?

Even then, I don't understand why it will freeze Windows for 2-3 second. Don't we have multi tasking or something? Sometimes, just clicking the Start button will freeze. I am not sure what the HDD are doing!

Hrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm....


What's your entire parts list,


Did you do a fresh format ?

[Belfong]

I have one SSD (x25) and two SATA HDD. I have a puny nVidia GTX 550Ti. I upgraded just the mobo (Asus x270-Prime, Core i7-7700K and 16GB Corsair Vengeance LED).. and no, I did not do a fresh format yet, so there are almost 6 years of legacy OS junk in the HDD

p.s. reason of not upgrading is that my Win 10 is a free upgrade from Win 8, I don't have the license key.

[tp4tissue]

I have one SSD (x25) and two SATA HDD. I have a puny nVidia GTX 550Ti. I upgraded just the mobo (Asus x270-Prime, Core i7-7700K and 16GB Corsair Vengeance LED).. and no, I did not do a fresh format yet, so there are almost 6 years of legacy OS junk in the HDD

p.s. reason of not upgrading is that my Win 10 is a free upgrade from Win 8, I don't have the license key.

I'm pretty sure there is a way to obtain a key and transfer to a new pc..

There's no way around a fresh format..  it must be done.


But, you'd still need a New SSD if it's the x25m g1 ..


The nvme pcie is better

 sandisk is the budget one that's reliable..

[Belfong]

noted; will explore and report back.

[Belfong]

Just thinking - I think I have a setting such that my HDD will go slept after 30 min of inactivity. Maybe when I do access the files in the HDD, that it starts to wake up and that cause the hang due to the disk started to spin up. What do you think?

[tp4tissue]

Just thinking - I think I have a setting such that my HDD will go slept after 30 min of inactivity. Maybe when I do access the files in the HDD, that it starts to wake up and that cause the hang due to the disk started to spin up. What do you think?

If files come off the disk,  it will do that..

try turning it off by putting it in high performance mode

[Leslieann]

Trim or no trim, that ssd is still pretty slow.

You want M.2, however, M.2 is not as simple as sata, some are NVME, some are not and they are not interchangable usually. You probably have NVME though, which is the better one to have.

And yes, HDD lag is caused by sleep, especially when not the primary drive in the system. I never let my file server drives sleep because it REALLY lags them out over a network.

[Belfong]

My C: is a very old SSD. I think a first or second gen Intel 80GB X.25 SSD or something like that. Even then, it struggles to keep up.
I'm guessing it's my other 2 spinning drives that I Store games and media stuff that's dragging the PC down. Is there any optimization I need to do? I check Defrag and they are ok.

hahaha

Don't store games on hdd..  Many of the new games hit a ton of random i/o..

the intel 80 is pretty old, I wouldn't call it STRUGGLE,  but it's miles behind the newest ssds.


X25m does not support trim, the x25m G2 support trim.  which one do you have.. ??


Either way,  You'd want to get a newer nvme sandisk pcie ssd..

They're the budget go to..


GET 512gb,  because you'll fill up 256 really fast these days with them 60gb games.

Device Manager said that it is a INTEL SSDSA2M120G2GC - is that a G2 or not? Regardless, you guys are correct - it is just too old. I need to get a new one asap. But I will still have those spinning drives that might create bottleneck. I just can't get rid of them.

[tp4tissue]

Device Manager said that it is a INTEL SSDSA2M120G2GC - is that a G2 or not? Regardless, you guys are correct - it is just too old. I need to get a new one asap. But I will still have those spinning drives that might create bottleneck. I just can't get rid of them.

that's a g2

so you have trim..

Which means the problem is definitly either software, or the HDD sleep.



I would still get a new ssd for (Size)


But a newer ssd won't really performance much faster than that one  for your day to day.. unless you run virtual machines,

[Belfong]

Ok, so it probably looks like I need to do a clean install and remove the HDD sleep and see how it goes. Thanks @tp4!

[tp4tissue]

Ok, so it probably looks like I need to do a clean install and remove the HDD sleep and see how it goes. Thanks @tp4!

[Belfong]

****!

The damn SSD just died this morning. It was fine just the day before and I was gaming. I even had a proper shutdown and this morning it plainly refuse to boot. Damn it. What stupid luck.

Looks like I have no choice but to fork out money for a new drive. Here's what available..



Don't think I can afford NVME but between M2 PCIe and M2 SATA, which is the one to go and what brand? WD?

I don't even know if my Asus Z270-Prime supports M2. Any advise will be appreciated.

[tp4tissue]

I don't even know if my Asus Z270-Prime supports M2. Any advise will be appreciated.

if you're not getting nvme,  then just buy a regular sata ssd.. they're cheaper,  the msata is just sata over pcie.

[tp4tissue]

also, that ssd,  it's probably a software error,  check the smart values,  i doubt it's worn out..

[Belfong]

also, that ssd,  it's probably a software error,  check the smart values,  i doubt it's worn out..

What do you mean? I boot using another HDD and then reformat it? It looks like BIOS can't even detect it.

Now that you mentioned it, I have that Intel SSD doing a scheduled maintenance every Sat and perhaps my shutdown interrupted it. I'm not sure.

[tp4tissue]

also, that ssd,  it's probably a software error,  check the smart values,  i doubt it's worn out..

What do you mean? I boot using another HDD and then reformat it? It looks like BIOS can't even detect it.

Now that you mentioned it, I have that Intel SSD doing a scheduled maintenance every Sat and perhaps my shutdown interrupted it. I'm not sure.

write corrupt doesn't necessarily mean the drive is worn out.

SSDs are actually prone to corruption during power loss, which is why the enterprise end have $50 capacitors built in, in case of powerloss.

[Belfong]

Do you mean technically I could just boot it, detect it and format the SSD and it will work as new?!

[tp4tissue]

Do you mean technically I could just boot it, detect it and format the SSD and it will work as new?!

yes. pretty sure it will work fine.

unless something shows up in smart values that says the thing is borked.. unlikely


Next time though, since it's only 120gb,  you can full clone that before each shutdown, and you'd never have down time more than 10 minute restores.


Macrium reflect is the easiest clone software and is free.

[Belfong]

How long does it takes to clone? That's an interesting tip and I might just do this. But it also means shutdown will be slow unless it knows how to do incremental cloning.

[tp4tissue]

macrium can do that.


I keep 30 days of snapshots of my main drive.


As for how long it takes,  for a 120gb drive, not very long,   


But that doesn't really matter, because it's not like you have to watch it .. hahahaha, just go to bed.

[Findecanor]

I just built new PC (Kaby Lake) the other day, and last night my old mini-PC died. Timing!

I had not yet moved anything over, and I was at first afraid that I would not be able to recover anything from the encrypted home directory but it decrypted with the old login password. phew.

Before I chose Intel 7700, I had looked a lot into buying a Ryzen 1600 but it has been so frustrating with the platform not being very stable. Most of all though was the lack of any good mATX motherboard: all AM4 mATX boards had the wrong chipset which limited VRM capacity and some tech journalists/youtubers did not recommend anything bigger than a Ryzen 1500 on those... I already had a Jonsbo mATX case that I wanted to use, because it fits my small desk.