Author Topic: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set  (Read 50299 times)

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Offline Nutty

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[IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:28:28 »
Hello Geekhack!
My name is Nutty/Jordan and today I would like to introduce a project that I've been working on:



GMK Harvest

This is a relaxed fall themed set taking place in a more medieval setting. Major aspects of the set are focused around the harvesting of crops and fruit along with the added themes of trading wares such as animal pelts and drinking in a tavern. The set also has some inspiration from Japanese Mythology of Inari Ookami, who is the god of harvest and is depicted as a fox.

Please fill out my IC Form to help me gauge interest as well as for any criticism, changes, suggestions, or feedback.
Additionally, if you're interested, I do have a Discord if you join, just go into the rules and roles and react to the keyboard role.

Colorway
RAL 060 50 50 as the mod cap color to match that of wheat or a fox.
RAL 080 90 10 is a light tan, almost white, which pairs well as an alpha color.
RAL 030 40 60 is a rich and vibrant red that resembles an apple.

Kits
This being my first set, I may have some issues with kitting. I have had some help and done a bit of research and I believe that I offered a substantial amount to the majority.


Base - Harvest
Hiragana - Inari (稲荷)
Novelties - Traveling Merchant
Spacebars - Wheat Fields
40% - Pups

Deskmats
Bountiful Harvest - illustrated by TomTC
Quiet Tavern - illustrated by TomTC

Collab x Harvest




GB Dates, Vendors, and Pricing
August 2021
USMekibo (formely TX)
EUMykeyboard
AsiazFrontier
SEAiLumkb
OceaniaDaily Clack
CanadaKeyspresso
JapanBasekeys

Renders
Sunsetter
Iron165
Fjell
TGR Jane

Special Thanks
With this being my first key cap set I had so many wonderful people help me through this project.
Xerpocalypse - Great friend who was a huge help with leading me in the right directions and introducing me to other members in community.
OneCreativeMind - A super nice person I had the pleasure to work with when designing my novelties.
trifelife - Nice friend who did with the calligraphy in the banner.
Bachoo - Great communication and was friendly while working on renders, and they turned out great.

Signature
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=109421.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/6HSGITu.png[/img][/url]
« Last Edit: Mon, 10 May 2021, 13:53:57 by Nutty »

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:28:56 »
To Do:
Feedback
Deskmats
Collab/Artisan
Get Vendor
Pricing
Dates
GB


Update Log:
11/4/2020 - Fixed some kitting issues. In base kit removed a set of Pg Up and Pg Dn. Added Yen sign to hiragana kit, added mod color |\, and added extra tab. Added 1.75u concave in spacebars kit. Added 1.25 tab in the 40% kit.
11/14/2020 - Gave an update to the vendors/proxies so far.
11/17/2020 - Added the deskmat mat design Bountiful Harvest.
11/20/2020 - Added the deskmat mat design Quiet Tavern.
11/21/2020 - Got a proxy/vendor for the Southeast Asia region.
12/01/2020 - Made some changes with the novelties. Removed some keys to cut cost while adding new designs for r4.
12/14/2020 - Update to novelties. Removed the wagon wheel, added pairs of 1u, 1.25u, and 1.5u. Included spacebars in 40's kit.
12/17/2020 - Got an NA vendor. Secured GB slot for August 2021.
12/18/2020 - Kit updates. Removed 4€ from base kit. Added 半角/全角, |\む¥, and ><ろ. Changed the を and ー to full width. Added two 3u c to the spacebar kit. A lot of revisions to 40's kit.
1/04/2021 - Kit updates. On base kits removed extra 1u Ctrl, added r3 PgUp and r4 PgDn. Changed Hiragana alt alpha kit to a Hiragana base kit. On Hiragana kit fixed missing ¥ on r3 \| and added r1 1u `~ー. On spacebars kit added accent color spacebars in 6.25u and 7u. 40's kits minimized. Additional thanks to konstantin and others in the 40's discord for this break down of coverage.
2/10/2021 - Still working on kitting, but in order to reach preferred pricing ISO-UK will be getting switched for generic ISO. Collab for keyboard sleeves announced with Mechfashion.
3/09/2021 - RAMA WORKS collab announced with renders of the design. Asero Foundry collab announced, in the works. Dealing with licensing stuff so no pricings yet or finalized kits. May have to drop certain novelties.
3/20/2021 - Collab with shirouu.caps added.
3/27/2021 - Collab with rtg_caps added.
3/31/2021 - Basekeys added as vendor in Japan.
4/02/2021 - Failed to get licensing. Renamed set. Placeholder for banner art. Rewrote flavor text to strictly a fall and harvest themed set with no other inspiration. Removed S and W keys from novelties kit. Deskmat of field switched to the version with no head peeking out among the wheat. Dealing with Mechfashion collab.
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 April 2021, 15:43:23 by Nutty »

Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:29:33 »
YOooooooo

very nice
(Forever) Illustrious.

Offline OtherAndrew

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:30:54 »
please consider ¥ on pipe

Offline self

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:32:52 »
Wooooow
This is amazing!! Good luck!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:33:47 »
Omg I love Holo

ne spice and wolf S3 avail T-T

that said, the kitting looks alright, though I'd probably remove some keys like
- Pg Up R3
- Pg Dn R4
- 1.5u Supers R4
- 2u Shift R4
for a bit of savings

And yes, yen sign on pipe please.

Other than that, definitely in my considerations. I'll post more if I get any more ideas (would suggest R5 bottom row but it'd probably get pricey)


Offline GreatKingNorann

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:34:21 »
Looking forward to the GB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:34:43 »
Yo this is mad cute

yes Jordan pls add ¥ on both pipe keys
« Last Edit: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:37:45 by Xerpocalypse »

Offline UXEN

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:36:20 »
Very nice!

Offline yogidrink

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:36:45 »
Very naisu

Offline dandruff

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:37:08 »
Only real issue I can see right now is that the colorway is the same as another set in IC : JTK space camp, but I love the theme and novelties! Great job!

Offline Raravin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:38:00 »
Yo I like it!

Offline Bachoo

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:40:05 »
Very nice  :thumb:

Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:40:32 »
Only real issue I can see right now is that the colorway is the same as another set in IC : JTK space camp, but I love the theme and novelties! Great job!

GMK > JTK :)

but all in all, I think the themes are far different and the novelties really make this set.

Offline Tyson

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 14:45:24 »
Only real issue I can see right now is that the colorway is the same as another set in IC : JTK space camp, but I love the theme and novelties! Great job!

Themes and colors are very different imo, Space Camp's mods look more brown than orange, where as this sets mods are close to a burnt orange color. I definitely like the look of this one, my only complaint would be the S, and W novelties, to me they don't really fit in with the rest of the novelties. But that could just be me, I might be in for Base Kit when this runs!
« Last Edit: Tue, 03 November 2020, 15:02:20 by Tyson »

Offline pwade3

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 15:10:32 »
Just some kitting thoughts:

Add an extra tab to your hiragana kit, it adds some flexibility so in theory someone can buy it and fill 2 different boards (e.g. 1 tsangan style, 1 standard style). Additionally, since you've got a mod colored ~` you might as well add a mod colored |\ key too.

For base, going with full UK iso, the extra 1.5u supers, 2u shift, and 2x1u ctrl/alt is making it pretty thicc and might push pricing.

Offline FaIIen

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 15:15:43 »
Why do you must forsake me like this...

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 15:24:53 »
rEsErVeD!!1!11

REEEEsErVed@@@!!!111!1

reserverserverservesrsersvers

Offline RyuDragoon

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 15:40:48 »
This reminds me of one of my favorite reddit posts...

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/33dxxq/z/cqk87rp

Offline hali

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 15:43:16 »
Just some kitting thoughts:

Add an extra tab to your hiragana kit, it adds some flexibility so in theory someone can buy it and fill 2 different boards (e.g. 1 tsangan style, 1 standard style).
yes please

Offline Esheu2

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 15:59:38 »
yes
Leaf60, Kei
Fallacy
Alpha65
Matrix 8x v1.2 OG, Mech27 v2
Coming soon: GSKT-00

Offline break

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:09:17 »
Congratulations on this IC! Seems there's a lot of love for this set in thread, so I hope getting it to GB is a straightforward process for you and others.

That said, I do find it challenging to overlook similarities between this and Space Camp. One of these color palettes belongs to JTK Space Camp: MARS. The other is GMK Wise Wolf.




It doesn't take a lot of effort to figure out which is which, because we've been handed all six swatches across both ICs, but you could likely swap novelties or accents from one onto the other with almost zero impact to the on-desk aesthetic.

It really seems like the similarity is unintentional. I don't mean to call you out!! I guess my Q is to the long-time participants of the community in thread. Folks seem to love both sets, and designers have put lots of effort into both. They seem to have emerged independently.
« Last Edit: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:28:04 by break »

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:13:19 »
WOW! Thank you all for the well received immediate feedback and support. This is my first set and I'm honestly quite giddy right now seeing it all. Really rewarding to see all this from almost a years worth of planning. From what I have seen so far, it seems I have a few kinks to fix mostly with kitting.

Offline low_key_keyboards

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:22:08 »
Oh man I loved this series!

It's about time a set was themed on this.

Can there be more 1.25U and 1.5U novelties with the same 1U art?

For example, more range of apple novelty keycap sizes?

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:26:48 »
Congratulations on this IC! Seems there's a lot of love for this set in thread, so I hope getting it to GB is a straightforward process for you and others.

That said, I do find it challenging to overlook similarities between this and Space Camp. One of these color palettes belongs to JTK Space Camp: MARS. The other is GMK Wise Wolf.

Show Image


Show Image

It doesn't take a lot of effort to figure out which is which, because we've been handed all six swatches across both ICs, but you could likely swap novelties or accents from one onto the other with almost zero impact to the on-desk aesthetic.

It really seems like the similarity is unintentional. I don't mean to call you out!! I guess my Q is to the long-time participants of the community in thread. Folks seem to love both sets, and designers have put lots of effort into both. They seem to have emerged independently. So...now what?

Here's a great example of another situation that was vaguely similar:

GMK Demon Sword was criticized a lot for looking like GMK Rudy. Raravin was also pressured heavily by Warren to change his colors even though Rudy's GB was long over, but ended up adding hiragana to the base kit to differentiate it, even though he didn't really want to.

Demon Sword reached MOQ and exceeded it handily.  IIRC his pre-extras numbers were better than Rudy.

These sets can coexist too.

Offline Visionaire

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:27:36 »
Congratulations on this IC! Seems there's a lot of love for this set in thread, so I hope getting it to GB is a straightforward process for you and others.

That said, I do find it challenging to overlook similarities between this and Space Camp. One of these color palettes belongs to JTK Space Camp: MARS. The other is GMK Wise Wolf.

Show Image


Show Image

It doesn't take a lot of effort to figure out which is which, because we've been handed all six swatches across both ICs, but you could likely swap novelties or accents from one onto the other with almost zero impact to the on-desk aesthetic.

It really seems like the similarity is unintentional. I don't mean to call you out!! I guess my Q is to the long-time participants of the community in thread. Folks seem to love both sets, and designers have put lots of effort into both. They seem to have emerged independently. So...now what?

While I am not really a fan of the color scheme of either... I did initially think this set was a rebrand of something I had seen before (which turns out to be Space Camp). While these may have been derived individually, it will set an interesting precedent should they both run. Could set the tone that similarities can be ignored in today's market.

Offline nvh2092

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:46:31 »
Please consider adding 1.25u Fn key to the base kit as it's widely used in TKL, full size keyboard and many 65% layouts

Offline Shinigamii

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:47:24 »
Beautiful set, would love to see this become successful! Will definitely be picking up a set when the time comes

Offline Auracity

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 16:54:39 »
Damn I **** with this hard

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 17:14:11 »
So I'd like to additionally address the comparison made to another set. I just learned about the other set today. While there are similarities color, it seems they have different values for Hue, Lightness, and Chroma, especially since Space Camp uses Pantone colors. Though, I don't have a pantone book to compare physical samples, only RAL. I have been working on this set for quite some time before the other IC was posted. Also I waited over 14 weeks in a render queue with someone else before Bachoo picked up my request and saved me from my over 14 week wait. If you want to see where I got my inspiration from enjoy this picture :)

Offline BapoDonu

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 17:21:21 »
So I'd like to additionally address the comparison made to another set. I just learned about the other set today. While there are similarities color, it seems they have different values for Hue, Lightness, and Chroma, especially since Space Camp uses Pantone colors. Though, I don't have a pantone book to compare physical samples, only RAL. I have been working on this set for quite some time before the other IC was posted. Also I waited over 14 weeks in a render queue with someone else before Bachoo picked up my request and saved me from my over 14 week wait. If you want to see where I got my inspiration from enjoy this picture :)
Show Image

Can we have the pic without the beige on the left

Offline illusixn

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 17:38:19 »
So I'd like to additionally address the comparison made to another set. I just learned about the other set today. While there are similarities color, it seems they have different values for Hue, Lightness, and Chroma, especially since Space Camp uses Pantone colors. Though, I don't have a pantone book to compare physical samples, only RAL. I have been working on this set for quite some time before the other IC was posted. Also I waited over 14 weeks in a render queue with someone else before Bachoo picked up my request and saved me from my over 14 week wait. If you want to see where I got my inspiration from enjoy this picture :)
Show Image


I could be wrong here, but I think most people would have believed you even if the scantily clothed figurines hadn't been included in your photo.

I am a fan of the colors tho, glwic

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 17:46:42 »
i love buying keycap sets based on a character the runner has most definitely jerked off to

Offline despairsray

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 18:38:14 »
Oh ****. 100% in on this.

Offline Janoma

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 18:47:13 »


I'm sorry, but these are the exact same.

I get that they are different in theme, but at the same time, these sets cannot run at the same time.

Rudy and Demon Sword were different, they have different accents and alpha colors, which sets them apart from each other. 

Offline Traveler

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 19:25:29 »
I love Spice & Wolf. Best of luck with this set; I'll be keeping a close eye on it. Unfortunately I agree that in it's current for it does look waaay too much like Space Camp. But that's what ICs are for.

Offline jack47

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 19:41:25 »
holo is best girl

Offline manaorme

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 19:42:40 »
Please consider Rama art.
Red alu, apple design, filled with white enamel paint.
« Last Edit: Tue, 03 November 2020, 22:17:16 by manaorme »

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 20:12:32 »
Show Image


I'm sorry, but these are the exact same.

I get that they are different in theme, but at the same time, these sets cannot run at the same time.

Rudy and Demon Sword were different, they have different accents and alpha colors, which sets them apart from each other.



lol

Offline Janoma

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 20:22:44 »
Show Image


I'm sorry, but these are the exact same.

I get that they are different in theme, but at the same time, these sets cannot run at the same time.

Rudy and Demon Sword were different, they have different accents and alpha colors, which sets them apart from each other.

Show Image


lol

I don't see your point here. Space Camp is an original color scheme that is SIMILAR to classic sets. Saying this and space camp are more different than space camp and lets say, Red Alert, is not correct.

Offline pool

  • Posts: 44
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 22:23:19 »
So I'd like to additionally address the comparison made to another set. I just learned about the other set today. While there are similarities color, it seems they have different values for Hue, Lightness, and Chroma, especially since Space Camp uses Pantone colors. Though, I don't have a pantone book to compare physical samples, only RAL. I have been working on this set for quite some time before the other IC was posted. Also I waited over 14 weeks in a render queue with someone else before Bachoo picked up my request and saved me from my over 14 week wait. If you want to see where I got my inspiration from enjoy this picture :)
Show Image


I may be wrong but this image didn't seem necessary to post, lol

Offline Shinigamii

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 03 November 2020, 22:46:23 »
I don't see why similar color ways are such a big deal, they clearly have different inspirations but were just made around the same time.  They also are targeting different markets considering this is directly inspired by an anime character.  If similar colorways means more people can get sets that they like, and are of the based on something they like, the better for the consumers since this is a hobby that most of us are in for fun. 

Offline lelasdfasdf

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 01:18:40 »
Congratulations on this IC! Seems there's a lot of love for this set in thread, so I hope getting it to GB is a straightforward process for you and others.

That said, I do find it challenging to overlook similarities between this and Space Camp. One of these color palettes belongs to JTK Space Camp: MARS. The other is GMK Wise Wolf.

Show Image


Show Image

It doesn't take a lot of effort to figure out which is which, because we've been handed all six swatches across both ICs, but you could likely swap novelties or accents from one onto the other with almost zero impact to the on-desk aesthetic.

It really seems like the similarity is unintentional. I don't mean to call you out!! I guess my Q is to the long-time participants of the community in thread. Folks seem to love both sets, and designers have put lots of effort into both. They seem to have emerged independently.

So both sets should run if they get the vendor support and if one of them doesn't make MOQ, then it doesn't make MOQ. If both of them don't make MOQ, both of them don't make MOQ. This is a creator's industry. Copying your youtube format is completely fine. Copying your twitch format is completely fine. And seriously, if the only thing that makes the set unique is the colorway, really should reconsider how much work is put into the set. Doesn't take a lot of time to put colors into KLE and buy some renders.

Don't want your colors taken? Go from IC -> GB -> Production quicker. Just like how keyboards are doing now. Look at D65 and Vega65. In-stock and ready to ship far before any GB is done. Sell -> Ship faster if one wants to guarantee the spot. I could see the issue if someone was copying novelties like with gmk sumi. BUT even then, it's not like these sets have any proper IP usage. If you're gonna go licensed, go licensed. Otherwise, stop trying to split hairs and pretend to have ownership to colors lmao.

Offline Ustinj

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 02:00:49 »
Damn this guy was getting dumped on for being 'similar to GMK Delta': https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=109334.0

yet look at the support here... not saying that this set isn't good, but I wish GH were not so rude to the other guy!

Offline hark

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 02:19:52 »
Damn this guy was getting dumped on for being 'similar to GMK Delta': https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=109334.0

yet look at the support here... not saying that this set isn't good, but I wish GH were not so rude to the other guy!

You're missing the point as to why that post was getting 'dumped' on. It was primarily not because it was similar to Delta, but because it was deemed low effort, without proper renders, kits, or actual physical colours such as Pantone or RAL colours. This on the other hand has proper renders, kits, and RAL colours. Delta has also already run while Space Camp is still in IC iirc.

Offline Raravin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 06:52:43 »
I dont see an issue, different inspirations. Sometimes cant  help cause it does match the inspiration. So many colorways go together that look good if we hate on everything that is similar we will run out of keysets.

Offline huey

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 07:25:39 »
It's unfortunate that you spent so much time creating this idea/IC, and how it so closely overlaps with Space Camp seems to be a coincidence. It's a shame.

But I do not think we, at large, should allow two sets that are nearly identical (without pulling out RAL/Pantone charts) to run - regardless of their manufacture.
It's not indicative of how the "respect system" we have unspokenly agreed upon, in this hobby, should operate.

Offline Bunn3y

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 07:56:48 »
This looks very pretty. Definitely keeping an eye out. GLWIC!

Offline //gainsborough

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 09:58:45 »
Outstanding - 100% in!

Gotta say though... missed opportunity to call it "GMK Korbo" =P

Offline Ace_Archer

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 10:13:02 »
I Love this! I would definitely build a board specifically for this set.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 12:47:36 »
Omg I love Holo

ne spice and wolf S3 avail T-T

that said, the kitting looks alright, though I'd probably remove some keys like
- Pg Up R3
- Pg Dn R4
- 1.5u Supers R4
- 2u Shift R4
for a bit of savings

And yes, yen sign on pipe please.

Other than that, definitely in my considerations. I'll post more if I get any more ideas (would suggest R5 bottom row but it'd probably get pricey)

Thank you for these suggestions. I have just updated the kitting and have uploaded the renders. These were thing's I overlooked during my kitting process.

Just some kitting thoughts:

Add an extra tab to your hiragana kit, it adds some flexibility so in theory someone can buy it and fill 2 different boards (e.g. 1 tsangan style, 1 standard style). Additionally, since you've got a mod colored ~` you might as well add a mod colored |\ key too.

For base, going with full UK iso, the extra 1.5u supers, 2u shift, and 2x1u ctrl/alt is making it pretty thicc and might push pricing.

Thank you for the suggestion about the extra tab the hiragana understand now why that's a thing. As for adding UK ISO in the base kit, as this is my first set, I feel having a separate MOQ for that kit may not be reaches. I did also remove a Pg Up and Pg Dn in my base kit to help with that cost.

Outstanding - 100% in!

Gotta say though... missed opportunity to call it "GMK Korbo" =P

LOL

Offline pwade3

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 12:52:04 »

Just some kitting thoughts:

Add an extra tab to your hiragana kit, it adds some flexibility so in theory someone can buy it and fill 2 different boards (e.g. 1 tsangan style, 1 standard style). Additionally, since you've got a mod colored ~` you might as well add a mod colored |\ key too.

For base, going with full UK iso, the extra 1.5u supers, 2u shift, and 2x1u ctrl/alt is making it pretty thicc and might push pricing.

Thank you for the suggestion about the extra tab the hiragana understand now why that's a thing. As for adding UK ISO in the base kit, as this is my first set, I feel having a separate MOQ for that kit may not be reaches. I did also remove a Pg Up and Pg Dn in my base kit to help with that cost.


I don't think you should do a separate ISO kit, for the reasons you mentioned.

I mean for most buyers, doing physical ISO support (via something like R3 |\ and r4 <>) is generally acceptable. The extra R1 caps just add a decent amount of fluff that don't really seem to make too much of a difference, in my experience at least.

Offline Space_Case88

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 12:57:57 »
This is great! Holo is certainly best girl. Also, you should definitely try for an apple RAMA cap. That would tip the scales for sure.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 13:06:59 »
This is great! Holo is certainly best girl. Also, you should definitely try for an apple RAMA cap. That would tip the scales for sure.

Great idea but I already had that planned out if it was possible! I just need to get vendors secured before I start reaching out to people for any collab work.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:27:56 »
Update Log:
11/4/2020 - Fixed some kitting issues. In base kit removed a set of Pg Up and Pg Dn. Added Yen sign to hiragana kit, added mod color |\, and added extra tab. Added 1.75u concave in spacebars kit. Added 1.25 tab in the 40% kit.


I'm sorry, but most of these seem backwards from what they should be, lol. I recommend reverting all of them, except for the mod-colored 1.5u pipe and the 1.25u Tab in 40s.

Rather than removing keys for the most popular layout in the community (R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn for 65%), you should remove keys that are completely unused by any modern ≥60% layout (second 1u Ctrl) or keys that less than 3% of users in the community have a use for (ISO-UK–specific keys).

Also, having a yen sign in an ANSI-based set with hiragana sublegends is inaccurate. That should also be removed.

Spacekeys in a 40s kit are a must with GMK pricing (2× 1c, 2c, 2.25c, 2.75c). 1.75c shouldn't be in the spacebar kit (since there are no non-40% boards that use it), but rather the 40s kit, and only optionally at that.

I don't think you should do a separate ISO kit, for the reasons you mentioned.

I mean for most buyers, doing physical ISO support (via something like R3 |\ and r4 <>) is generally acceptable. The extra R1 caps just add a decent amount of fluff that don't really seem to make too much of a difference, in my experience at least.
+1

Edit: links, wording
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:47:31 by konstantin »

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:48:11 »
Update Log:
11/4/2020 - Fixed some kitting issues. In base kit removed a set of Pg Up and Pg Dn. Added Yen sign to hiragana kit, added mod color |\, and added extra tab. Added 1.75u concave in spacebars kit. Added 1.25 tab in the 40% kit.


I'm sorry, but most of these are backwards from what they should be, lol. Revert all of them (except for the mod-colored 1.5u pipe and the 1.25u Tab in 40s).

Rather than removing keys for the most popular layout in the community (R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn for 65%), you should remove keys that are completely unused on any modern ≥60% board (second 1u Ctrl) or keys that less than 3% of users in the community can use (ISO-UK).

Also, having a yen sign in an ANSI-based set with hiragana sublegends is inaccurate. That should also be removed.

Spacekeys in a 40s kit are a must with GMK pricing (2× 1c, 2c, 2.25c, 2.75c). 1.75c shouldn't be in the spacebar kit (since there are no non-40% boards that use it), but rather the 40s kit, and only optionally at that.

The inclusion of ISO-UK here is thematic and practical. If you'd read the thread you would understand that. Statistics aren't everything.

The set has a full column for 65% support.

1u R4 CTRL is used in some 1800 layouts, and mainstream 65% boards, as well as 60%s with righthand arrows. Nutty owns 3 of the latter. Let the him design to his preferences as well, the base kit has a lot of mainstream compatibility.

As far as "correct legends" go, there are differing opinions regarding ¥ on pipe/backslash. It seems that despite the fact you speak and complain with an authoritative manner as to legends so often, you're not always right.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:49:42 by Xerpocalypse »

Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:53:55 »
Advocating for the absence of ¥ is like being in favor of getting rid of tertiary legends for sublegend base kits, like in PuLSE's Arabic and Hangul kits. JIS-JP should be the standard to follow.

Likewise, for the 65% support, it's at least what 65% users expect in a base kit, and won't complain about if that's all there is. If you wanted R3 Pg Up and R4 Pg Dn, perhaps you might want to push for an "Extension" or different child kit of sorts. I would rather see the OP trim the fat on the base kit to keep costs as low as possible while maintaining a minimal standard for support of most layouts.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:21:14 »
The inclusion of ISO-UK here is thematic and practical. If you'd read the thread you would understand that. Statistics aren't everything.

The set has a full column for 65% support.

1u R4 CTRL is used in some 1800 layouts, and mainstream 65% boards, as well as 60%s with righthand arrows. Nutty owns 3 of the latter. Let the him design to his preferences as well, the base kit has a lot of mainstream compatibility.

As far as "correct legends" go, there are differing opinions regarding ¥ on pipe/backslash. It seems that despite the fact you speak and complain with an authoritative manner as to legends so often, you're not always right.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

You'll notice that, in my post, I mentioned that only the second 1u Ctrl key should be removed. As far as I'm aware, only OG Cherry G80-1800 boards supported a layout with two 1u Ctrl keys. I also think the only modern 1800 PCB that supports that particular bottom row configuration is Maarten's open-source GH80-1800. Please correct me if I'm wrong and if you know of any others. But this is the reason why I said that the second 1u Ctrl is not useful for modern ≥60% boards. Those board types you mentioned (and several others) do indeed use 1u Ctrl, but only one of them. So, keeping one in the kit is definitely recommended, whereas the second one can be removed.

I have not watched the anime that this set is based on, but reading through the thread I did not equate it being based in a medieval European setting with it being based in England. Maybe the idea is that UK keys have something inherently more medieval or European about them compared to the other options? I don't think that's true. Perhaps you disagree, and that's fine, but I still feel it's totally within reason for me to point out objective reasons for why I think it's bad to include certain less popular keys over other more popular keys. The motivation behind this is that supporting more popular layouts generally tends to lead to a set selling more kits.
Trends change quickly in this community, though, and as soon as I see UK keys jump in popularity like small spacekeys, F13, alternative right column / bottom row options etc. have over the past year, I will be the first one to start asking people to include them in their base kits. But so far that hasn't happened yet.

This set does indeed have a full column for 65% support. It also has a full bottom row for WKL/Tsangan/HHKB support; #~ and \| for ISO support; alpha-colored `~ and \| for ANSI support; etc. — yet it also includes some extra keys (1.5u Supers, full ISO-UK, 2u Shift etc.) on top of those. Those extra keys are not necessary in much the same way that R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn are not necessary, yet they are still included in the kit.
My argument is that these keys are also worth including as much as, if not more so, than those other keys. This again is based on their current popularity in the community, which in turn is based on: how many people use them (photos on Discord, GH, r/mk), how many new sets include them, how many people ask for them in ICs, sales numbers of relevant keyboards, etc.
I also had another thought regarding these keys; see my reply to Mr. LightningXI below.

———

Now, taking a step back and reading through my post, I definitely sounded like an *******. I apologize, it was not my intention. The post was written in a hurry, and I edited it a whole bunch of times to try and get everything I wanted to say in. In hindsight, I should have waited until I had time to write a proper post in which I could relay my thoughts and suggestions in a more appropriate manner. Instead, I ended up sounding like an abrasive, authoritative ****. Again, I apologize. I had no ill intentions, neither towards Nutty nor anyone else who may have helped with the design of this set. Despite not agreeing with some of the recent kitting decisions, I actually like the colorway very much. This sort of was the reason why I was somewhat taken aback seeing those changes made to a base kit that at first looked really appealing to me.

Regarding the ¥ issue, perhaps you could point me to other places (besides the GMK JIS WoB thread) where this was discussed in the context of sets with sublegends of this type, and where these differing opinions may have been presented with some argumentation? Would love to discuss. Speaking of which, I recommend reading through the entirety of the discussion in the thread you linked to to get a fuller picture, in order to hopefully avoid taking things out of context like that again in the future.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:51:44 by konstantin »

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:21:25 »
Advocating for the absence of ¥ is like being in favor of getting rid of tertiary legends for sublegend base kits, like in PuLSE's Arabic and Hangul kits. JIS-JP should be the standard to follow.

Well, JIS-JP does not have ¥ anywhere on the same layer as kana characters. By that logic, it would be even less correct to have it as a quaternary legend in a set like this. If we were to follow JIS-JP in this regard (which isn't entirely appropriate to begin with since the layouts are physically incompatible, and you end up with crucial characters missing altogether; see the ModernJA thread), the correct legend for the pipe key would be ¥|ー, not \|む¥. Either way you look at it, putting ¥ in that top-right position in GMK is inaccurate/misleading/misrepresents the layout (in fact, misrepresents both layouts, JIS-based and ANSI-based).

Honestly, I'm not seeing how this is analogous to removing tertiary legends in Arabic or Hangul kits like you mentioned. It really isn't, in my opinion; not at all. Consider the following:
  • In kits with Arabic sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which Arabic letters you get when typing using the Arabic language layout.
    • Quaternary legends represent which Arabic letters you get while also holding Shift. (GMK Pulse did not have any quaternary legends in its Arabic kit.)

  • In kits with Hangul sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which jamo you get when typing using the Korean language layout, in Hangul mode (toggled using the RAlt 한/영 key by default).
    • Quaternary legends represent which jamo you get in Hangul mode while also holding Shift (double consonants).
    • The won sign is on neither the tertiary (Hangul) nor quaternary (Hangul+Shift) “layers”, therefore it is not appropriate to put it in either of those positions on a keycap.
      Instead, the won sign is displayed as a graphical representation of the regular backslash \ character on PCs with the system locale set to KR. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's possible to type the actual Unicode ₩ character using standard Korean IMEs on PC.

  • In kits with hiragana/katakana sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which kana or punctuation marks you get when typing using the Japanese language layout, in Kana mode (toggled using the Kana key on JIS, or Alt+~ on ANSI by default).
    • Quaternary legends represent which characters you get in kana mode while also holding Shift (small kana, を and a few additional punctuation marks).
    • The yen sign is on neither the tertiary (Kana) nor quaternary (Kana+Shift) “layers”, therefore it is not appropriate to put it in either of those positions on a keycap.
      Instead, the yen sign is available either as a graphical representation of the regular backslash character \ on PCs with the system locale set to JP; or as the base, non-Shifted output of the pipe key in IME mode (which is different from Kana mode).
For this reason, you could perhaps say that it would be appropriate to put ¥ (or, for that matter, ₩) in the base (bottom-left) position of the pipe keycap (¥|む, ₩|). That approach would be slightly more okay — but even then it's debatable, if the rest of the keycap set is based on US-ANSI. But as far as the top-right position for ¥ goes, that's inappropriate in any case.

But yeah, the point is that all of those layouts behave consistently, so I believe that our keycaps should be consistent with that behavior, too.

Of course, please feel free to correct me if I've gotten any of those specifics wrong, especially with regard to the Korean layout/IME (I've checked with two Korean users, but I don't use it myself so I can't be sure). This breakdown is primarily based on how these layouts work on Windows and Linux, and it doesn't take into account how they work on Mac (although it is similar) because layouts on Mac come with their own set of idiosyncrasies, and 99% of keycap sets are based on PC layouts anyway.


Likewise, for the 65% support, it's at least what 65% users expect in a base kit, and won't complain about if that's all there is. If you wanted R3 Pg Up and R4 Pg Dn, perhaps you might want to push for an "Extension" or different child kit of sorts. I would rather see the OP trim the fat on the base kit to keep costs as low as possible while maintaining a minimal standard for support of most layouts.

Well, first of all, they do complain. Here's a little compilation of posts asking for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn to be included in ICs here on GH (not including my own posts). These are the result of a quick search of posts in the IC subforum over the past 6 months. Let's compare that to, say, posts asking for 1.5u Supers in that same time period (again, not including my own posts).

Posts asking for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Posts asking for 1.5u Super/Code/Command: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Looks like it's pretty close.

Personally, I am a big fan of such “Extension” kits as it were, especially for “alternative” options such as R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn, 1.5u Supers, full ISO-UK support etc. There are two main reasons why I did not suggest going that route here (and in most other sets' cases thus far):
  • The runner chose to have a comprehensive base kit that covers most popular layouts, and included “alternative keys” for several of those layouts (as described in my reply to Xerpocalypse). Therefore, I think that R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn would be appropriate inclusions in such a base kit. To a lesser extent, I also don't want to suggest the runner add any additional kits, seeing as this is GMK and also their very first keyset project (which, by the way, great job for a first project!).

  • Such extension kits don't seem to sell well. For example, GMK MoDo 2 and GMK Minimal 2's Addition kits only sold 6.8% and 10.5% of base kit sales, respectively, despite these kits being everything I could ask for (especially as a R1 owner of both sets, you bet I grabbed a couple). It's a fair assumption that, had this been some other set — say, one that had barely met 250 MOQ in base kit sales — an Addition kit such as this would not have met its MOQ, or would have needed to be bought out by vendors.

    On the other hand, I noticed that GMK Dolch R5's Extension kit did quite well in comparison (which I found a bit surprising, given its size), so something like that would, in my opinion, definitely be worth exploring in future sets. Also, I'm a big fan of super tiny extension kits, such as the one found in GMK Yuri R2, and I'm looking forward to seeing how that does (and especially how it's going to be priced; you know my R1 Yuri is aching for those accent arrow keys ;)).
I also think that, as we move forward and as base kits keep getting larger on average, it might be worth experimenting with merging the two right column options into a single one, using keys with generic legends.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:25:30 by konstantin »

Offline VipermanGT2

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:24:10 »
Advocating for the absence of ¥ is like being in favor of getting rid of tertiary legends for sublegend base kits, like in PuLSE's Arabic and Hangul kits. JIS-JP should be the standard to follow.

Well, JIS-JP does not have ¥ anywhere on the same layer as kana characters. By that logic, it would be even less correct to have it as a quaternary legend in a set like this. If we were to follow JIS-JP in this regard (which isn't entirely appropriate to begin with since the layouts are physically incompatible, and you end up with crucial characters missing altogether; see the ModernJA thread), the correct legend for the pipe key would be ¥|ー, not \|む¥. Either way you look at it, putting ¥ in that top-right position in GMK is inaccurate/misleading/misrepresents the layout (in fact, misrepresents both layouts, JIS-based and ANSI-based).

Honestly, I'm not seeing how this is analogous to removing tertiary legends in Arabic or Hangul kits like you mentioned. It really isn't, in my opinion; not at all. Consider the following:
  • In kits with Arabic sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which Arabic letters you get when typing using the Arabic language layout.
    • Quaternary legends represent which Arabic letters you get while also holding Shift. (GMK Pulse did not have any quaternary legends in its Arabic kit.)

  • In kits with Hangul sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which jamo you get when typing using the Korean language layout, in Hangul mode (toggled using the RAlt 한/영 key by default).
    • Quaternary legends represent which jamo you get in Hangul mode while also holding Shift (double consonants).
    • The won sign is on neither the tertiary (Hangul) nor quaternary (Hangul+Shift) “layers”, therefore it is not appropriate to put it in either of those positions on a keycap.
      Instead, the won sign is displayed as a graphical representation of the regular backslash \ character on PCs with the system locale set to KR. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's possible to type the actual Unicode ₩ character using standard Korean IMEs on PC.

  • In kits with hiragana/katakana sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which kana or punctuation marks you get when typing using the Japanese language layout, in Kana mode (toggled using the Kana key on JIS, or Alt+~ on ANSI by default).
    • Quaternary legends represent which characters you get in kana mode while also holding Shift (small kana, を and a few additional punctuation marks).
    • The yen sign is on neither the tertiary (Kana) nor quaternary (Kana+Shift) “layers”, therefore it is not appropriate to put it in either of those positions on a keycap.
      Instead, the yen sign is available either as a graphical representation of the regular backslash character \ on PCs with the system locale set to JP; or as the base, non-Shifted output of the pipe key in IME mode (which is different from Kana mode).
For this reason, you could perhaps say that it would be appropriate to put ¥ (or, for that matter, ₩) in the base (bottom-left) position of the pipe keycap (¥|む, ₩|). That approach would be slightly more okay — but even then it's debatable, if the rest of the keycap set is based on US-ANSI. But as far as the top-right position for ¥ goes, that's inappropriate in any case.

But yeah, the point is that all of those layouts behave consistently, so I believe that our keycaps should be consistent with that behavior, too.

Of course, please feel free to correct me if I've gotten any of those specifics wrong, especially with regard to the Korean layout/IME (I've checked with two Korean users, but I don't use it myself so I can't be sure). This breakdown is primarily based on how these layouts work on Windows and Linux, and it doesn't take into account how they work on Mac (although it is similar) because layouts on Mac come with their own set of idiosyncrasies, and 99% of keycap sets are based on PC layouts anyway.


Likewise, for the 65% support, it's at least what 65% users expect in a base kit, and won't complain about if that's all there is. If you wanted R3 Pg Up and R4 Pg Dn, perhaps you might want to push for an "Extension" or different child kit of sorts. I would rather see the OP trim the fat on the base kit to keep costs as low as possible while maintaining a minimal standard for support of most layouts.

Well, first of all, they do complain. Here's a little compilation of posts asking for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn to be included in ICs here on GH (not including my own posts). These are the result of a quick search of posts in the IC subforum over the past 6 months. Let's compare that to, say, posts asking for 1.5u Supers in that same time period (again, not including my own posts).

Posts asking for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Posts asking for 1.5u Super/Code/Command: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Looks like it's pretty close.

Personally, I am a big fan of such “Extension” kits as it were, especially for situating “alternative” options such as R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn, 1.5u Supers, full ISO-UK support etc. There are two main reasons why I did not suggest going that route here (and in most other sets' cases thus far):
  • The runner chose to have a comprehensive base kit that covers most popular layouts, and included “alternative keys” for several of those layouts (as described in my reply to Xerpocalypse). Therefore, I think that R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn would be appropriate inclusions in such a base kit. To a lesser extent, I also don't want to suggest the runner add any additional kits, seeing as this is GMK and also their very first keyset project (which, by the way, great job for a first project!).

  • Such extension kits don't seem to sell well. For example, GMK MoDo 2 and GMK Minimal 2's Addition kits only sold 6.8% and 10.5% of base kit sales, respectively, despite these kits being everything I could ask for (especially as a R1 owner of both sets, you bet I grabbed a couple). It's a fair assumption that, had this been some other set — say, one that had barely met 250 MOQ in base kit sales — an Addition kit such as this would not have met its MOQ, or would have needed to be bought out by vendors.

    On the other hand, I noticed that GMK Dolch R5's Extension kit did quite well in comparison (which I found a bit surprising, given its size), so something like that would, in my opinion, definitely be worth exploring in future sets. Also, I'm a big fan of super tiny extension kits, such as the one found in GMK Yuri R2, and I'm looking forward to seeing how that does (and especially how it's going to be priced; you know my R1 Yuri is aching for those accent arrow keys ;)).

^^^ Plz include TLDR.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:32:28 »
^^^ Plz include TLDR.

tl;dr: I provide arguments for what I said previously and also apologize for coming off as an ******* initially.

Offline VipermanGT2

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 23:09:51 »
^^^ Plz include TLDR.

tl;dr: I provide arguments for what I said previously and also apologize for coming off as an ******* initially.

Thanks.  :thumb:

Offline greenranger17

  • Posts: 3
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 23:52:02 »
essay

relatively new geek here but you seem to comment everywhere asking for these things. looks like youre quite the niche keycap representative but who here actually really knows just how important these keycap preferences really are. for all i know none of these fellow geeks youre speaking up for are even interested in this spice and wolf keyset. if there are a bunch of them im sure they will fill out the google form asking for it themselves and would be nice for them to comment in here about it too and then nuttykids3 will take it into consideration. you post a lot for these geeks in all the threads flooding them with essays that never go unnoticed but maybe the geeks that want this can ask for themselves. just cuz the examples you linked before were asking for other sets doesnt automatically mean their request should transfer over. they might not even care about this one and your essays might feel as if its a bigger problem than you seem to make it.

and even out of your 20 ex you link for the r3 pgup and r4 pgdn thats only 11 unique people with leexy asking 4x and oldcat asking 5x and motte asking 2x. not as important with these 1.5u super/command/code but there are only 13 unique people out of the 17 ex you give with customersupport asking 5x.


enough of this essay of my own. this is a nice keyset and happen to like it so i think nuttykids3 did a good job  :thumb:

-gr
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 November 2020, 02:50:19 by greenranger17 »

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 02:46:43 »
```
[Clipping this down so the quote is a bit shorter]

Now, taking a step back and reading through my post, I definitely sounded like an *******. I apologize, it was not my intention. The post was written in a hurry, and I edited it a whole bunch of times to try and get everything I wanted to say in. In hindsight, I should have waited until I had time to write a proper post in which I could relay my thoughts and suggestions in a more appropriate manner. Instead, I ended up sounding like an abrasive, authoritative ****. Again, I apologize. I had no ill intentions, neither towards Nutty nor anyone else who may have helped with the design of this set. Despite not agreeing with some of the recent kitting decisions, I actually like the colorway very much. This sort of was the reason why I was somewhat taken aback seeing those changes made to a base kit that at first looked really appealing to me.
```

That was a lot to read through but thank you for that response. The original comment did come off a little harsh, however I do see now that you genuinely do care about the hobby. Those points you brought up gave me some information I didn’t know much about before. Additionally I was unaware about you and your track history of similar post, but now I see the context as why some stuff appeared there.

I will consider making a poll about the ¥ in the Google from about it in the future depending on how feedback goes. Lastly, I appreciate the apology and thank you for saying I’ve done great with the project so far and I’m glad your interested in this set.

Offline shimalazor

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 03:19:45 »
Guess I'm in and will buy everything I can  :))

Offline harlekein

  • Posts: 451
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 05:12:46 »
Oh boy, the xolor police is in full force now. Even trying to dictate whether you are allowed to run this set or not.

GMK another weeb set doesn't appeal to me, but I am really tired of these people trying to enforce non-existent laws.

Offline break

  • Posts: 361
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:27:32 »
Oh boy, the xolor police is in full force now. Even trying to dictate whether you are allowed to run this set or not.

GMK another weeb set doesn't appeal to me, but I am really tired of these people trying to enforce non-existent laws.

Frankly speaking, I only care about whether this + the other set run out of personal interest. My two keysets are scheduled for GB, and it'll be helpful to know how the community reacts to similar-looking keysets today versus even a year ago.

Luckily for nutty, every time I reply to some "color police" comment like this I bump their thread and provide a bit more visibility. :) Anyway: best of luck with GB, nutty.

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 10:54:35 »
I love Holo so much. I never thought I'd be interested in a colorway related to her.

Also, and I mean this as an absolute compliment, this set looks like the farm/barnyard cousin of GMK Camping.

Offline Mysteriya

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 21:57:56 »
There is absolutely zero question I'm in. If this launches I'm buying it no questions asked. I love holo

Offline noorejji

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 07:14:55 »
Horo best girl

Offline Click This

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 19:08:51 »
I've had this avatar on here for five years, my time has come

Matrix 1.2og | Matrix 2.0add | KFE CE | Justsystems x Evija HHKB | Realforce 91U | Canoe Gen.1

Offline Honey

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 20:52:24 »
Would love to see hiragana sublegends in the base kit as opposed to its own kit as the inspiration comes from an anime, just my preference.

Offline I.Hiyori

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 22:37:44 »
Definitely in on this, novelties got me hooked. Especially the tail at the corner of the spacebars. GLWIC

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #73 on: Sat, 14 November 2020, 19:34:27 »
Just wanted to give a little update. I have a handled most of my proxies, but I'm still looking for a main vendor for my region. Thank you to everyone for filling out the IC form, I have received just under 60 replies so far and that's awesome! Most replies that I saw and wanted address were wanting to see more from this set such as deskmats and a metal/brass cap. I have ideas for mat designs and I am currently looking for an artist. As for the metal/brass cap I do have a design for it, I was waiting to secure more vendors before reaching out for potential collabs. Addition to that, I am also potentially open to other collabs like artisans, cables, and maybe a keyboard sleeve. I look forward to being able to share more news coming soon.

Offline NaviUy

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 16 November 2020, 07:53:32 »
Oh my gosh! This is a must cop from me! Please release this!!!!!!

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #75 on: Tue, 17 November 2020, 18:23:55 »
I'm excited to share the new deskmat design with you all! I have one more in the works. I currently just added a mock up of it, but I will try to get actual renders done once I have both designs.

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 17 November 2020, 19:03:06 »
Please no centered design deskmat -- centered designs get covered when keyboards are placed on them  :))

Offline Traveler

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 18 November 2020, 19:37:58 »
Dang that mat looks nice. I'm definitely in for one of those.

Offline UberPlatypus

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 18 November 2020, 21:57:40 »
Gib

Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk


Offline UberPlatypus

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 18 November 2020, 21:59:44 »
Can we get a deskmat with Spice/Wise Wolf on it, she cute

Seeing a collab for an artisan keycap, if the escape novelty were aluminum and done by a company perhaps.

Regardless of collabs this is the cutest set in a while that I have seen and hope to pick this up.

Keep up the great work!
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 November 2020, 22:06:16 by UberPlatypus »

Offline crestia

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 19 November 2020, 01:18:35 »
If possible, pls have a SEA vendor for the set.

Btw, deskmat looking great :)

Offline Oddstag

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #81 on: Thu, 19 November 2020, 03:39:31 »
Novelty ISO enter key always gets bonus points from me.

Offline yenel

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 19 November 2020, 04:19:34 »
I've never watched spice and wolf, but this keyset makes me feel like i should
Love the color scheme, and thank you for adding an extra tab to the hiragana kit!

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 19 November 2020, 15:35:03 »
If possible, pls have a SEA vendor for the set.

Btw, deskmat looking great :)

+1 for SEA.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 03:45:02 »
Thank you for the feedback on both the IC thread and the form. I have now spoken with iLumkb and they will be happy to run the set for the SEA region. I also did add the second deskmat design.

Please no centered design deskmat -- centered designs get covered when keyboards are placed on them  :))

As for the new deskmat design, I decided to purposely go with this style of a “centered” design as in this case it’s not to block much since the major design aspect of it is the symmetry of the cluster being the focus in a somewhat U-shaped pattern.

Additionally, with both my deskmats, I wanted to stray away from the typical minimalist vector-y designs and try something kind of unique. I hope you all enjoy them!

Offline infornography

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 10:54:05 »
Only thing I'm not fond of on this set is the S,W novelty keys. To me they feel like they
clash a bit, but then again I'm the only one complaining lol. If I had my choice i'd switch it to
a paw print and maybe come coins


Offline donny_pete

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #86 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 11:36:52 »
This color combo is PogChamp  :thumb:

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #87 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 18:57:08 »
Only thing I'm not fond of on this set is the S,W novelty keys. To me they feel like they
clash a bit, but then again I'm the only one complaining lol. If I had my choice i'd switch it to
a paw print and maybe come coins

Nah, you're not alone. It's the only kit I didn't check in the IC Form. The Ye Olde English homage to Spice & Wolf feels liks it clashes with both the normal base kit and the hiragana kit imho. I think a redesign might sway me though. Even a simple [Spice] and [Wolf] would be nice replacements for Ctrl and Alt. Maybe a Wolf head icon for the Win/Super keys as well.

But I've said, I already like this set and colorway so let's see what the results of the IC are.

Offline Melanic

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #88 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 20:00:38 »
Oh, big fan of all things Spice and Wolf. Even backed the VR game which I never did get the key to...

I'm definitely in for at least the novelties. The red legends are a bit too bright for me and would have preferred having the same orange colour of the mods, maybe it's just the renders.

Question about the desk mats though. Could anyone tell me how these desk mats compare to common gaming style mouse pads like the Steelseries QCK in terms of usability/performance (friction, durability, cleanable?). It doesn't have to be these specific ones, which no one has yet, but similar themed desk mats you'd find with other keysets.

Offline infornography

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 07:41:59 »
Only thing I'm not fond of on this set is the S,W novelty keys. To me they feel like they
clash a bit, but then again I'm the only one complaining lol. If I had my choice i'd switch it to
a paw print and maybe come coins

Nah, you're not alone. It's the only kit I didn't check in the IC Form. The Ye Olde English homage to Spice & Wolf feels liks it clashes with both the normal base kit and the hiragana kit imho. I think a redesign might sway me though. Even a simple [Spice] and [Wolf] would be nice replacements for Ctrl and Alt. Maybe a Wolf head icon for the Win/Super keys as well.

But I've said, I already like this set and colorway so let's see what the results of the IC are.

Yea, I was thinking of a wolf head icon too and something else. I just wasn't sold on it since I see alot of key's with wolf's head icons too.I was also thinking of replacing one of them with a Cart's Wheel as an idea. But yea, I'm really hoping they change the S&W.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:32:03 »
I thought about a wolf head but it felt kinda meme-y to since all I could think about was generic wolf howling in the moonlight designs lol.

I’m currently working on some changes to the novelties. I will be removing some keys while adding some new novelties which are in the works which will related to aspects of the series for travel and economy which I realize I missed those motifs.

My biggest priority is compatibility to the majority. So I’m making some conscious decisions while deciding what to remove and add since I want to keep cost down. This being my first set, I’m just trying to make sure I appeal to most people. Thank you to everyone so far for the support and feedback.

Extra note, I’m my last senior semester of college and finals are coming up so bare with me if there is a little silence.

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:52:55 »
I thought about a wolf head but it felt kinda meme-y to since all I could think about was generic wolf howling in the moonlight designs lol.

I’m currently working on some changes to the novelties. I will be removing some keys while adding some new novelties which are in the works which will related to aspects of the series for travel and economy which I realize I missed those motifs.

My biggest priority is compatibility to the majority. So I’m making some conscious decisions while deciding what to remove and add since I want to keep cost down. This being my first set, I’m just trying to make sure I appeal to most people. Thank you to everyone so far for the support and feedback.

Extra note, I’m my last senior semester of college and finals are coming up so bare with me if there is a little silence.

Thanks for the heads up, man. Good luck with finals.

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 29 November 2020, 05:26:18 »
Good luck with finals and finishing up school things!

I look forward to more for this set.

Offline sojourntv

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 29 November 2020, 19:18:08 »
Definitely Buying this!

Offline Oddstag

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 30 November 2020, 09:29:27 »
I thought about a wolf head but it felt kinda meme-y to since all I could think about was generic wolf howling in the moonlight designs lol.

I’m currently working on some changes to the novelties. I will be removing some keys while adding some new novelties which are in the works which will related to aspects of the series for travel and economy which I realize I missed those motifs.

My biggest priority is compatibility to the majority. So I’m making some conscious decisions while deciding what to remove and add since I want to keep cost down. This being my first set, I’m just trying to make sure I appeal to most people. Thank you to everyone so far for the support and feedback.

Extra note, I’m my last senior semester of college and finals are coming up so bare with me if there is a little silence.

For what it's worth, the baked in UK ISO support is deeply appreciated.

Offline Space_Case88

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #95 on: Mon, 30 November 2020, 16:52:29 »
This will be my set of 2021. It looks so good!

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 01 December 2020, 13:04:24 »
Made some changes to the novelties. I removed the 2u tail, 2.25u wheat, 1u S, and 1u W. I added two new designs. A wagon wheel and a coin were added to symbolize travel and economics.

I felt that removing the 1u's made the most sense in terms of compatibility since the few layout that use the 1u keys usually are paired with 1.5u as well. As for the deletion of the 2u tail and 2.25u wheat, I thought this was a decent decision as I wanted to cut the cost down and felt that most people would use one novelty over the other. Additional I cut them to compensate for adding the new designs for r4 novelties since there was some feedback of people who were not a fan of the S and W keys.
Before

After
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 December 2020, 13:35:23 by Nutty »

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 01 December 2020, 16:17:16 »
Made some changes to the novelties. I removed the 2u tail, 2.25u wheat, 1u S, and 1u W. I added two new designs. A wagon wheel and a coin were added to symbolize travel and economics.

I felt that removing the 1u's made the most sense in terms of compatibility since the few layout that use the 1u keys usually are paired with 1.5u as well. As for the deletion of the 2u tail and 2.25u wheat, I thought this was a decent decision as I wanted to cut the cost down and felt that most people would use one novelty over the other. Additional I cut them to compensate for adding the new designs for r4 novelties since there was some feedback of people who were not a fan of the S and W keys.
Before
Show Image

After
Show Image


I dig the new bottom row novelties!

Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 04 December 2020, 23:36:43 »
Made some changes to the novelties. I removed the 2u tail, 2.25u wheat, 1u S, and 1u W. I added two new designs. A wagon wheel and a coin were added to symbolize travel and economics.

I felt that removing the 1u's made the most sense in terms of compatibility since the few layout that use the 1u keys usually are paired with 1.5u as well. As for the deletion of the 2u tail and 2.25u wheat, I thought this was a decent decision as I wanted to cut the cost down and felt that most people would use one novelty over the other. Additional I cut them to compensate for adding the new designs for r4 novelties since there was some feedback of people who were not a fan of the S and W keys.
Before
Show Image

After
Show Image

I wish we had at least 2x 1u novelties for the bottom row of a 7u layout (1.5/1/1.5/7/1.5/1/1.5) with no blockers. They can serve as Win/OS keys.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #99 on: Sat, 05 December 2020, 09:22:04 »
Any updates on the kitting in base, hiragana, spacebars and 40s? Those kits still have issues that we talked about earlier in the thread.

Offline iinko_mk

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #100 on: Tue, 08 December 2020, 17:50:42 »
nice!
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=110839.0][img width=300 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/GKL0Jxi.png[/img][/url]

Offline SkettyMed

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #101 on: Tue, 08 December 2020, 21:27:58 »
This is the set that I never knew I wanted! Hard buy for sure and it looks great!

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #102 on: Wed, 09 December 2020, 18:18:25 »
Any updates on the kitting in base, hiragana, spacebars and 40s? Those kits still have issues that we talked about earlier in the thread.

Not going to be making any changes in regards to the Yen on pipe, I personally like it.
As for the spacebar kit it will be staying the same as users of layouts like alice and some other unique layouts.
With the 40's kit I will be adding some of the spacebars into it to hopefully not require 40's to buy both 40's and the spacebar kit.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #103 on: Wed, 09 December 2020, 18:27:21 »
I wish we had at least 2x 1u novelties for the bottom row of a 7u layout (1.5/1/1.5/7/1.5/1/1.5) with no blockers. They can serve as Win/OS keys.

Getting some updated kit renders made currently. I will be adding a new poll into the IC form deciding on the novelties once the renders are in. I will have two options one being a little bigger than the other to include the wagon wheel as well as having pairs of the r4 novelties to have symmetry on boards. There will be a pair of the 1u coins being added to both options.
« Last Edit: Sun, 20 December 2020, 12:44:35 by Nutty »

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 14 December 2020, 13:04:40 »
I just made some kitting updates. The novelties I have the wagon wheel removed and added additional pairs of the r4 coin novelty for symmetry who won't be using the S and W. In the 40's kit I have now added the spacebars to avoid them buying both 40's and spacebars kit.

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 14 December 2020, 13:08:11 »
I just made some kitting updates. The novelties I have the wagon wheel removed and added additional pairs of the r4 coin novelty for symmetry who won't be using the S and W. In the 40's kit I have now added the spacebars to avoid them buying both 40's and spacebars kit.

Thank you so much for the Novelties + Spacebar kits updates! Excellent; I am excited for this set to run in the future.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #106 on: Mon, 14 December 2020, 15:40:02 »
Not going to be making any changes in regards to the Yen on pipe, I personally like it.
As for the spacebar kit it will be staying the same as users of layouts like alice and some other unique layouts.
With the 40's kit I will be adding some of the spacebars into it to hopefully not require 40's to buy both 40's and the spacebar kit.

Thanks for your response. I'd like to reiterate a few suggestions which you didn't touch on and which I believe are important, and I'd also like to add in a few new ones.

In the base kit, please consider removing the second R4 1u Ctrl — a key which isn't used by any modern keyboards (all ≥60% boards use at most one 1u Ctrl) — and in its place adding R3 Pg Up, R4 Pg Dn, which are keys preferred by many 65% and 75% users. The R2, R3 variants that are currently in the kit are not a viable substitute for these keys in most cases and for most people that use them.
The way I see it, not including R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn while including obscure things such as 2u Shift and second 1u Ctrl is not a very *cough* wise *cough* move. There are very few people that use those keys (even fewer than there are ISO-UK and 1.5u Super users), whereas 65% and 75% layouts are huge in the community, and a good portion of those users require R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn for their layouts.

Another thing to note in the base kit is that you should either add the missing ¦ sublegend to the R1 key, or remove the 4$€ key and go fully sublegend-free (note that UK support works just as well without it). The latter option is probably more advisable since not only would it let you cut a not-that-important key from an already large base kit, but also because you don't have any AltGr keys in the set, and sublegends in European layouts are inherently tied to AltGr.

You mentioned that you'd like to keep the yen sign out of personal preference — that's fine, but you should still update the 0)わを and -_ほー keys to have the correct sublegends. Namely, the glyph should be the same size as the below it, and the second key should have a in the top-right corner (this is a special character used when typing Japanese, not a regular dash). Here's an example.

I also recommend you include a R3 1u #~む key in the hiragana kit for basic ISO support with hiragana sublegends.

The following keys should be removed from the spacebars kit because they are not used outside of 40% boards (and 40% have their own kit):
  • 1.75c;
  • second 1c.
In their place, I recommend adding two 3c spacebars. This will allow the kit to cover boards that use 3u space, as well as boards that support standard split 7u configurations (3u+1u+3u).
You may also want to consider adding red accent 6.25c and 7c spacebars to this kit.

Finally, I see a few issues and have a few suggestions for the 40% kit:
  • The first issue is the lack of a R3 1.5u Enter, which is one of the essential 40s keys. Without it, the R2 1.75u Backspace and R4 1.75u Lock that are in the kit cannot be used.
  • The following keys can be removed:
    • R3 1.25u Control (very rarely used, def not worth including);
    • 1.25c space (never used on 40% boards).
  • The 40% community has recently started recommending that designers exclude R4 1.75u Lock and 1.75c space from their GMK 40% kits because these keys are realistically no longer used commonly enough to be justified. This would be my recommendation to you as well, and it should help keep the price of the kit more reasonable, while not sacrificing utility.
  • I suggest including a R4 1.5u Shift. This key is useful for UT47.2 (popular, widely available 40%), Whimsy (upcoming premium 40%) and similar 40s boards, as well as some larger boards: Evolv (75%), Raine (mini-1800).
  • It would be good to change the R3 1u Tab key to a more generic legend, e.g. Code, to give ortho users more flexibility and support more layouts. Tab, as it turns out, is one of the less popular options in this position on ortho boards.
  • Planck and Preonic users like to use a mod-colored R3 1u '"; it's a part of the default layouts for these boards. You may, optionally, want to include this key in the kit.
« Last Edit: Mon, 14 December 2020, 15:47:59 by konstantin »

Offline //gainsborough

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 14 December 2020, 21:38:34 »
Thank you so much for the Novelties + Spacebar kits updates! Excellent; I am excited for this set to run in the future.

+1

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 09:21:32 »
I saw your comment on the Hanami GB and made me discover this IC.

Awesome and cute looking set.

But same as Hanami Dango, I really don't think alternate Alphas work for GMK due to cost.

I strongly believe that the people prefering the Hiraganas sublegend would be about 50%. And being forced into a 130$+ base kit just to use under 15 keys (for a 65% or under), and even less if you go for the novelties feels horrible.

Please have the option between a Base Alpha kit and a Base Hiragana Kit. Or have the modifiers available as a separate kit so Hiragana buyers aren't forced to spend 130$+ for using just a few keys. It's also such a waste to let that many keys in the box.

The pricing on Hanami was 85$ for the alternate Alphas, and I assume this would be very similar.

I would really hate to have to pass on another set I like because of this.


ps: A rama would be awesome. A red espace key with an Apple like in the novelties with the vibrant color that alumium provides would be stunning.

   

Offline aldrinballado

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 10:58:37 »
I saw your comment on the Hanami GB and made me discover this IC.

Awesome and cute looking set.

But same as Hanami Dango, I really don't think alternate Alphas work for GMK due to cost.

I strongly believe that the people prefering the Hiraganas sublegend would be about 50%. And being forced into a 130$+ base kit just to use under 15 keys (for a 65% or under), and even less if you go for the novelties feels horrible.

Please have the option between a Base Alpha kit and a Base Hiragana Kit. Or have the modifiers available as a separate kit so Hiragana buyers aren't forced to spend 130$+ for using just a few keys. It's also such a waste to let that many keys in the box.

The pricing on Hanami was 85$ for the alternate Alphas, and I assume this would be very similar.

I would really hate to have to pass on another set I like because of this.


ps: A rama would be awesome. A red espace key with an Apple like in the novelties with the vibrant color that alumium provides would be stunning.



Quote from: Nutty
however I will not be including hiragana in the base set to keep it more natural to the setting of the series being based on medieval Europe.

Did you even read the IC?

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #110 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 11:47:23 »

Quote from: aldrinballado


Did you even read the IC?

Yes I read the IC.

Which also says that feedback is welcomed. While his point is that the medieval setting is more suited for standard Alphas, I think that the Japanese origin makes it also suited for the Hiragana sub legends, and I believe the split would be fairly 50/50 on who would prefer the regular Alphas or with the Hiragana Sublegends.

My other suggestions if he refuses to do 2 base kits, was to offer a small kit with the modifiers so people that want the Hiraganas aren't forced into purchasing the base kit.


If you also read what I said, the author of this IC agreed to a similar statement I made on Hanami Dango currently in GB that the separate Hiragana Alphas made the set extremely expensive for somebody that will never use the regular Alphas.
Read here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=110049.0

   

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #111 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 11:56:56 »
I really don't think alternate Alphas work for GMK due to cost.I strongly believe that the people prefering the Hiraganas sublegend would be about 50%. And being forced into a 130$+ base kit just to use under 15 keys (for a 65% or under), and even less if you go for the novelties feels horrible.

Please have the option between a Base Alpha kit and a Base Hiragana Kit. Or have the modifiers available as a separate kit so Hiragana buyers aren't forced to spend 130$+ for using just a few keys. It's also such a waste to let that many keys in the box.

The pricing on Hanami was 85$ for the alternate Alphas, and I assume this would be very similar.

I would really hate to have to pass on another set I like because of this.


ps: A rama would be awesome. A red espace key with an Apple like in the novelties with the vibrant color that alumium provides would be stunning.

To response to this, while I do agree that it is pricy for one to buy both a base and then an alpha kit, it is based off a more medieval setting so I find justice in keeping it the way it is.
Also there are more that are just interested in Latin versus hiragana. With forced hiragana, you have to pay more for a Latin alpha kit to remove/fix a set, versus paying for an additional feature that you want.
Additionally, as my this first set, I don't want to have two base kits one with Latin and one with Hiragana as it could be difficult to reach MOQ as a first timer. This is why I have opted out to do international kits and extension kits as well.

As for cost, I personally would suggest a little more research into other sets that do similar thing with alt alphas. I knew that was on the higher end compared to other sets I recall. I have generally seen prices around $60 for alt alphas, so I was unsure of why their kitting was so expensive in Hanami Dango at $85. I have generally noticed that Kono's pricing is a bit higher in regards to kitting. If you want to see other examples of some alt alphas here is a quick couple that I found from past GB's.
GMK Noel (hiragana kit) $58.99
GMK Analog Dreams (hiragana kit) $60
GMK Masterpiece (base katakana to Latin kit) $59
GMK Perestorika (less keys, but going back to Latin) $59
GMK Sumi (higher cost, also has spacebars in hiragana kit) $70

About the metal cap you suggested, I need to have a secured vendor and date before I can start to work on collab work. However, I already have a design made for a potential metal/aluminum/brass keycap if a company/maker will be willing to work with me.

Thanks for your response. I'd like to reiterate a few suggestions which you didn't touch on and which I believe are important, and I'd also like to add in a few new ones.
More
In the base kit, please consider removing the second R4 1u Ctrl — a key which isn't used by any modern keyboards (all ≥60% boards use at most one 1u Ctrl) — and in its place adding R3 Pg Up, R4 Pg Dn, which are keys preferred by many 65% and 75% users. The R2, R3 variants that are currently in the kit are not a viable substitute for these keys in most cases and for most people that use them.
The way I see it, not including R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn while including obscure things such as 2u Shift and second 1u Ctrl is not a very *cough* wise *cough* move. There are very few people that use those keys (even fewer than there are ISO-UK and 1.5u Super users), whereas 65% and 75% layouts are huge in the community, and a good portion of those users require R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn for their layouts.

Another thing to note in the base kit is that you should either add the missing ¦ sublegend to the R1 key, or remove the 4$€ key and go fully sublegend-free (note that UK support works just as well without it). The latter option is probably more advisable since not only would it let you cut a not-that-important key from an already large base kit, but also because you don't have any AltGr keys in the set, and sublegends in European layouts are inherently tied to AltGr.

You mentioned that you'd like to keep the yen sign out of personal preference — that's fine, but you should still update the 0)わを and -_ほー keys to have the correct sublegends. Namely, the glyph should be the same size as the below it, and the second key should have a in the top-right corner (this is a special character used when typing Japanese, not a regular dash). Here's an example.

I also recommend you include a R3 1u #~む key in the hiragana kit for basic ISO support with hiragana sublegends.

The following keys should be removed from the spacebars kit because they are not used outside of 40% boards (and 40% have their own kit):
  • 1.75c;
  • second 1c.
In their place, I recommend adding two 3c spacebars. This will allow the kit to cover boards that use 3u space, as well as boards that support standard split 7u configurations (3u+1u+3u).
You may also want to consider adding red accent 6.25c and 7c spacebars to this kit.

Finally, I see a few issues and have a few suggestions for the 40% kit:
  • The first issue is the lack of a R3 1.5u Enter, which is one of the essential 40s keys. Without it, the R2 1.75u Backspace and R4 1.75u Lock that are in the kit cannot be used.
  • The following keys can be removed:
    • R3 1.25u Control (very rarely used, def not worth including);
    • 1.25c space (never used on 40% boards).
  • The 40% community has recently started recommending that designers exclude R4 1.75u Lock and 1.75c space from their GMK 40% kits because these keys are realistically no longer used commonly enough to be justified. This would be my recommendation to you as well, and it should help keep the price of the kit more reasonable, while not sacrificing utility.
  • I suggest including a R4 1.5u Shift. This key is useful for UT47.2 (popular, widely available 40%), Whimsy (upcoming premium 40%) and similar 40s boards, as well as some larger boards: Evolv (75%), Raine (mini-1800).
  • It would be good to change the R3 1u Tab key to a more generic legend, e.g. Code, to give ortho users more flexibility and support more layouts. Tab, as it turns out, is one of the less popular options in this position on ortho boards.
  • Planck and Preonic users like to use a mod-colored R3 1u '"; it's a part of the default layouts for these boards. You may, optionally, want to include this key in the kit.

Thank you for you feedback. I will be looking into some changes and hopefully have an update coming soon.


An aside, I'm finished up with finals and I should be graduating in the next few days with my BS. With that being said, I will be more active and involved in my project again. I look forward to the future for this!
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2020, 12:48:31 by Nutty »

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #112 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 13:30:29 »
Thanks for the response.

Even if it's arguable, I understand the argument for the base Alpha instead of Hiragana. I'd have imagined the split would be pretty close to 50/50 but maybe not.
I really hope the Hiragana can be made more in line with those prices, but I fear that the price is increased with the newer molds.

Sadly lately, there seems to be quite a few sets I am interested in with separately sold Alphas, and it's getting really expensive and also feels so wasteful to have all these keys sit in a box, so I had to pass on them.

But if there is a beautiful Rama, I will probably not resist this one  <3
   

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #113 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 21:43:00 »
An aside, I'm finished up with finals and I should be graduating in the next few days with my BS. With that being said, I will be more active and involved in my project again. I look forward to the future for this!

Awesome, congratulations!

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Updated Novelties and 40's)
« Reply #114 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 13:31:47 »
Just one last thing, which I just learned today.

Apparently having a base kit without Alphas is possible. Then buyers can choose which Alphas they prefer.
It will most likely be slightly more expensive, but could be a good compromise.

One of the last GB I parted in was Yuru which offered 2 base kits and the split was 1072 Hiragana and 673 Alphas, which I why I thought most Japanese inspired kit seems pretty 50/50.
   

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (GB Expected August 2021)
« Reply #115 on: Thu, 17 December 2020, 23:18:53 »
Excited to announce an NA vendor and GB slot have been secured. GB is currently expected for August 2021.
New kitting fixes and renders coming soon to address some issues and feedback. All kits except for the novelties will have some changes, most are related to 40's and hiragana kits.

Offline Oddstag

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (GB Expected August 2021)
« Reply #116 on: Fri, 18 December 2020, 05:05:52 »
Excited to announce an NA vendor and GB slot have been secured. GB is currently expected for August 2021.
New kitting fixes and renders coming soon to address some issues and feedback. All kits except for the novelties will have some changes, most are related to 40's and hiragana kits.

Congrats on locking in a GB date! Wish it was sooner but isn't that always the way? Really impressed with the speed this kit has progressed and I'm 100% in.

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (GB Expected August 2021)
« Reply #117 on: Fri, 18 December 2020, 10:13:08 »
Excited to announce an NA vendor and GB slot have been secured. GB is currently expected for August 2021.
New kitting fixes and renders coming soon to address some issues and feedback. All kits except for the novelties will have some changes, most are related to 40's and hiragana kits.

Congratulations!!
There is still a ways to go, but I'm really excited to see this come to fruition.

Offline punyeon

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (GB Expected August 2021)
« Reply #118 on: Fri, 18 December 2020, 10:55:28 »
This look amazing! I'm a huge fan of the series, definitely looking forward to this set. The group buy date is so far! The only request I have is to make a Hiragana base kit along with the Latin base kit. Otherwise, amazing work!!

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #119 on: Fri, 18 December 2020, 22:00:55 »
Just made quite a few changes to the kitting. All the kit changes in the update log expect for the 40's overhaul.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #120 on: Sat, 19 December 2020, 13:28:16 »
Just made quite a few changes to the kitting. All the kit changes in the update log expect for the 40's overhaul.

Nice. :D

Since you added 半角/全角, your hiragana should also get a R1 1u `~ー key to complete JIS support (which is what the former key is used for). At that point, you might as well include 6.25c and 7c spacebars in the kit and make it viable as a standalone purchase (e.g. for combining with other sets).

Your base, spacebars and 40% kits still have a few keys that have no practical or justifiable uses. Specifically:
  • second 1u Ctrl in base;
  • 1.75c space in spacebars;
  • second 1c space in spacebars;
  • 1.25c space in 40%.
These can be removed.

As for the 40% kit:

After further considerations and discussions with 40% community members, I think your current 40% kit is still too large and will likely have trouble reaching MOQ. Note that, in Oct and Nov 2020, five GMK sets had to cancel their similarly-sized or larger 40% kits mid-GB due to poor sales. The recommendation of the 40% community is to cut down on uncommon keys (1.75u Lock, 1.75c space) and merge other keys together to reduce kit size while not sacrificing compatibility (e.g. R1 Back, TabOut; second R4 Shift, EnterSend). Please see the following examples of recommended kits:
  • Minimal viable variant (recommended):
  • Slightly expanded variant:

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #121 on: Sat, 19 December 2020, 14:29:57 »
Since you added 半角/全角, your hiragana should also get a R1 1u `~ー key to complete JIS support (which is what the former key is used for). At that point, you might as well include 6.25c and 7c spacebars in the kit and make it viable as a standalone purchase (e.g. for combining with other sets).

I'm not sure if the tooling for that key exists as of right now. GMK's catalogue isn't public, either. If the tooling doesn't exist, the cost of making it will be factored into both the kit's MOQ and ultimately the cost of the kit for buyers.

Kit bloat such as adding spacebars to hiragana kits, on top of tab, on top of ISO support (since GMK JIS tooling is in its infancy), is how we get to $70+ Hiragana alphas kits. From what I've seen, mixing keysets is a pretty uncommon practice.

Adding spacebars would not truly benefit people who want to have the set on multiple boards either, since you still have to contend with juggling different modifier layouts. It seems like this is already relatively rare.

Your base, spacebars and 40% kits still have a few keys that have no practical or justifiable uses. Specifically:
  • second 1u Ctrl in base;
  • 1.75c space in spacebars;
  • second 1c space in spacebars;
  • 1.25c space in 40%.
These can be removed.

On the other hand, removing the additional 1c and 1.75c spacebars from a kit designed to affordably extend compatibility to less common layouts, when it will not appreciably affect the cost of the kit to do so, is asinine.

The kit is small in comparison to many spacebar kits, contains a single color of spacebar, and does not include doubleshot keys. It won't be expensive. It's better to have that extra compatibility in this case, especially when you consider price.

As far as 40s are concerned, I'm not an expert but I referred Nutty to someone who I trust in the 40s community for kitting advice, and the 1.25c space stayed. Min/maxing a kit like 40s seems like a good idea, but it's definitely something that would be better polled with a larger sample of 40s users.
« Last Edit: Sat, 19 December 2020, 15:10:04 by Xerpocalypse »

Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #122 on: Sat, 19 December 2020, 17:18:10 »
As far as 40s are concerned, I'm not an expert but I referred Nutty to someone who I trust in the 40s community for kitting advice, and the 1.25c space stayed. Min/maxing a kit like 40s seems like a good idea, but it's definitely something that would be better polled with a larger sample of 40s users.

Speaking as someone highly active in the 40s community, the 1.25u convex space is not a thing. We have been working really hard to trim down our kitting suggestions because 40s kits have been getting super bloated recently. Of course in a perfect world every size and profile <2u would be represented, however with MOQ and cost concerns I don't think 1.25u bar is a priority

Offline //gainsborough

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #123 on: Sat, 19 December 2020, 19:02:16 »
Good to have a GB date!  Any specific reason it's so far off?  Either way, I'll be ready when the time comes!

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #124 on: Sat, 19 December 2020, 20:11:39 »
[...]

Fairly long post ahead, but I hope this'll make a few things clearer, as well as give some insight on why I made the exact suggestions that I did. To be clear, I still stand behind them 100%.


Re: hiragana

I'm not sure if the tooling for that key exists as of right now. GMK's catalogue isn't public, either. If the tooling doesn't exist, the cost of making it will be factored into both the kit's MOQ and ultimately the cost of the kit for buyers.

The tooling in question does exist (otherwise I wouldn't be suggesting it). The mold was introduced in GMK Mecha-01, which ran in July. Some other sets that use it are: GMK Devoted (scheduled to run in February), GMK Mashu (scheduled to run in April), GMK Retrowave.

Along with `~ー, Mecha-01 also introduced the 半/全 mold. The primary reason for the addition of these two keys was providing minimal JIS layout support in sets with Japanese sublegends. Having one key without the other undermines this, hence my suggestion to include the tilde as well in Wise Wolf's hiragana kit. The other reason for having `~ー in the kit is that it lets you avoid having a duplicate sublegend (on these keys) if you decide to use the hiragana keys in an ISO configuration. You can find more about these setups in this summary.

It's worth noting that GMK βeta had the half-width/full-width toggle key, but didn't have the tilde with chōonpu in its base kit. Hiney decided not to include the tilde in the end because the kit was already very large, and the extra keys would only benefit a small demographic (ISO / basic JIS). However, the 半角/全角 key was kept because the whole kit was thematically based around JustSystems HiPro caps, in which the red width toggle key plays a prominent visual role. So in that sense, this key was more like a novelty in βeta. However, in general, the two keys should not be included one without the other.


Kit bloat such as adding spacebars to hiragana kits, on top of tab, on top of ISO support (since GMK JIS tooling is in its infancy), is how we get to $70+ Hiragana alphas kits. From what I've seen, mixing keysets is a pretty uncommon practice.

Sure, I agree. But if avoiding kit bloat was the goal, why was the 半角/全角 key added? It has no function or utility by itself, so it's a key that directly bloats the kit. Perhaps its intended purpose was to be a Japanese-looking novelty key without offering actual utility, like in βeta, but that doesn't make sense in this set.

If the goal is to avoid bloat in the hiragana kit, the R1 半角/全角 and R4 <>ろ keys should be removed — the kit works for ANSI and ISO just as well without them. You can go a step further and also remove mod-colored tilde and pipe. Go a step beyond that and you can also remove the extra B and homing keys (though that's probably pushing it too far).

The point I was trying to make with the spacebars remark (which you misinterpreted as my main suggestion; although that's partly my fault for not phrasing it better) is as follows:
If you're already making the kit large by adding these extra keys (primarily the half-width/full-width toggle one), you might as well go all the way and:
1) add `~ー such that the addition of the toggle key at least makes functional/practical sense; and
2) add spacebars, which are about equally as useful as the aforementioned keys — which, as you describe, is not very.
Otherwise, those extra keys shouldn't be included in the kit either. In fact, at this point I think you should just remove 半角/全角 and call it a day.


By the way, I just noticed that the R3 \|む key in the hiragana kit is missing its ¥ sublegend in the top-right corner. @Nutty, you should probably fix that.


Re: extra spacekeys

On the other hand, removing the additional 1c and 1.75c spacebars from a kit designed to affordably extend compatibility to less common layouts, when it will not appreciably affect the cost of the kit to do so, is asinine.

The kit is small in comparison to many spacebar kits, contains a single color of spacebar, and does not include doubleshot keys. It won't be expensive. It's better to have that extra compatibility in this case, especially when you consider price.

As far as I'm aware, all layouts which use 1.75c and 2× 1c spaces are 40% layouts. Let's be specific here: 1.75c is used by Vortex Core, JD40, JD45, Prime_L; and 2× 1c is used by various 40% ortho boards. Those layouts all require the 40% kit, which already includes 2× 1c and 1.75c (as well as a second R4 1.75u key in the form of Lock). Therefore, including these keys in spacebars is quite unnecessary.

If you are aware of any 60% or larger boards that use these keys, please let me know. In that case, keeping these keys might be worth considering if the use case is common enough (though at that point I think I would have heard about it). Otherwise, the keys are dead weight and can be removed without significantly sacrificing compatibility for anyone.

For this exact reason, if you take a look at spacebars kits that ran over the past year, you'll notice that fewer and fewer of them included those keys as time went on. We're currently at the point where almost no new sets do it (1/13 of currently running sets have them; 0/10 if you consider just GMK). This is good, because it shows that over time kits have gotten more optimized. However, that's not to say that 1.75c can't become a thing again in the future if a board that uses it becomes really popular (we're kind of seeing that happen with 1.5u Shift now). But for now, it's best to avoid it because there simple isn't enough boards/demand for it.

By the way, even if you consider boards such as JD40/JD45 (which use 2× 1.75c bars but are very uncommon nowadays) and ortho setups with 4× 1c (also vanishingly rare), where extra 1.75c and 1c spaces could actually come in handy, your “affordably extend compatibility” argument still doesn't make sense — there is nothing affordable about needing to buy base + 40% + spacebars to cover your board. And, indeed, if you ask around among 40% users (which I have), almost no one does this.


As far as 40s are concerned, I'm not an expert but I referred Nutty to someone who I trust in the 40s community for kitting advice, and the 1.25c space stayed. Min/maxing a kit like 40s seems like a good idea, but it's definitely something that would be better polled with a larger sample of 40s users.

1.25c is not a thing in 40s, though, as anybody in the 40% community with an active interest in kitting will be able to tell you. To quote one 40s user: “1.25u space is pretty much relegated to an optionally smaller bar on boards which use a 1.5u space. Such as on Corne.” However, in those cases, you actually need two 1.25c keys, not one; and these layouts are pretty rare to boot, so these two keys are not worth including most of the time (especially so in a GMK kit).

I suspect that the idea behind keeping 1.25c in the kit was to allow for coverage of Alice and split 6.25u layouts with the 40% kit. This is common practice in sets that include alpha-colored spacekeys in the 40% kit, and accent-colored spacekeys in the spacebars kit (in those cases, the 40s kit is often dubbed “Extensions”). However, given the fact that in Wise Wolf spacekeys in both kits are alpha-colored; and the fact that the spacebars kit is, as you said, small and cheap; there is no incentive for Alice or split 6.25u users to buy the 40% kit over the spacebars kit to get the keys they need. Therefore, there is no reason to include 1.25c in 40s either.

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #125 on: Sat, 19 December 2020, 20:17:54 »
August is far away, but I guess GMK is overbooked at the moment, but happy that this set is confirmed.

Hoping for a beautiful Rama
   

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #126 on: Sun, 20 December 2020, 16:05:40 »
Render man is on vacation so I will have updated kit renders after the holidays. Hiragana will have the fix with the missing ¥ and the addition of the `~ー key. Spacebars will have the additional 1u c and the 1.75u c key removed. I changed the 40's kit to the min-max scheme. With these upcoming changes I hope to have solved most kitting issues.

Offline 4Holo

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #127 on: Sun, 20 December 2020, 19:51:57 »
Hi nutty, I wanted yo express my opinion and my other friends opinion. First I'd like to say thank you for making this set happen as an holo fan i approve. So far everything of the colors is on point. I've initinally worked on an set similar to this one before but couldn't come up with my own deskmats and also novelties. Im not the best drawer out there. So far the colors are almosr similar to the project I was working on but I'd like to add one final touch. I really would love to see if it's possible to have another pqair of alpha keys with the brown sublegends instead of red. I know that me and my friend have been looking to see if thats an possibility for you. As far an third deskmat something that would look more minilastic with just the silver coins, wheat and apple could also work.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kit updates)
« Reply #128 on: Sun, 03 January 2021, 22:35:52 »
I just wanted to give you a little update. I hope you all had a nice holiday season. I will be getting back to work on this set now.
There is currently a keyboard sleeve collab in the works, will share more information once sample is received.
Will start reaching out for additional potential collabs.
Changes to kits coming soon, renderman was also on vacation.
Stay tuned for more and Happy New Year!

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kits Finalizing)
« Reply #129 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 17:56:21 »
Kit updates are in. Requesting for pricing now. The only thing that I can think of that could potentially change in kitting is instead of offering ISO-UK I may change to generic ISO, however my preference is keeping ISO-UK.

I just noticed that my new renders seem a bit inconsistent. As compared to the board renders there is a difference and looks more orange than brown making it feel less natural. I will try to get this fixed up. When compared to my RAL deck, the new renders are more orange.

Edit: Fixed the colors to be more accurate.
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 January 2021, 21:40:02 by Nutty »

Offline NoteMakoti

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kits Finalizing)
« Reply #130 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 20:11:31 »
Hiragana has its own base kit now, nice.

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kits Finalizing)
« Reply #131 on: Mon, 04 January 2021, 21:00:23 »
Oh awesome, so happy to see a base Hiragana kit <3
   

Offline Oddstag

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kits Finalizing)
« Reply #132 on: Tue, 05 January 2021, 03:45:42 »
Kit updates are in. Requesting for pricing now. The only thing that I can think of that could potentially change in kitting is instead of offering ISO-UK I may change to generic ISO, however my preference is keeping ISO-UK.

I just noticed that my new renders seem a bit inconsistent. As compared to the board renders there is a difference and looks more orange than brown making it feel less natural. I will try to get this fixed up. When compared to my RAL deck, the new renders are more orange.

Edit: Fixed the colors to be more accurate.

Awesome stuff! For what it's worth my vote would be to keep ISO-UK.

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kits Finalizing)
« Reply #133 on: Sat, 09 January 2021, 18:12:09 »
August 2021? More than enough time to save up.

Offline hectellian

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kits Finalizing)
« Reply #134 on: Wed, 13 January 2021, 12:19:31 »
time to simp holo

Offline Asphroxia

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kits Finalizing)
« Reply #135 on: Mon, 25 January 2021, 17:43:30 »
Been tempted for a while to get into this hobby now, but after seeing this kit I was totally convinced and in love.
Thank you for making this great piece!
I'll just have to find a suitable board for it now haha!
I'm open to suggestions since everything is new to me, but I think I do prefer the low profile/floaty keys look.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB Expected August 2021 (Kits Finalizing)
« Reply #136 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 16:20:32 »
Sample unit for keyboard sleeve collab with Mechfashion has arrived.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 February 2021, 16:24:11 by Nutty »

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #137 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 16:27:04 »
To Do:
Feedback
Deskmats
Collab/Artisan
Get Vendor
Pricing
Dates
GB


Update Log:
11/4/2020 - Fixed some kitting issues. In base kit removed a set of Pg Up and Pg Dn. Added Yen sign to hiragana kit, added mod color |\, and added extra tab. Added 1.75u concave in spacebars kit. Added 1.25 tab in the 40% kit.
11/14/2020 - Gave an update to the vendors/proxies so far.
11/17/2020 - Added the deskmat mat design Bountiful Harvest.
11/20/2020 - Added the deskmat mat design Quiet Tavern.
11/21/2020 - Got a proxy/vendor for the Southeast Asia region.
12/01/2020 - Made some changes with the novelties. Removed some keys to cut cost while adding new designs for r4.
12/14/2020 - Update to novelties. Removed the wagon wheel, added pairs of 1u, 1.25u, and 1.5u. Included spacebars in 40's kit.
12/17/2020 - Got an NA vendor. Secured GB slot for August 2021.
12/18/2020 - Kit updates. Removed 4€ from base kit. Added 半角/全角, |\む¥, and ><ろ. Changed the を and ー to full width. Added two 3u c to the spacebar kit. A lot of revisions to 40's kit.
1/4/2021 - Kit updates. On base kits removed extra 1u Ctrl, added r3 PgUp and r4 PgDn. Changed Hiragana alt alpha kit to a Hiragana base kit. On Hiragana kit fixed missing ¥ on r3 \| and added r1 1u `~ー. On spacebars kit added accent color spacebars in 6.25u and 7u. 40's kits minimized. Additional thanks to konstantin and others in the 40's discord for this break down of coverage.
2/10/2021 - Still working on kitting, but in order to reach projected pricing ISO-UK will be getting switched for generic ISO. Collab for keyboard sleeves announced with Mechfashion.

I keep messing up and pressing reply instead of modify.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 February 2021, 16:32:27 by Nutty »

Offline Oddstag

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB 9/21 | Collab Announced
« Reply #138 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 03:19:28 »
Thanks for the update. Bummed about losing UK ISO, no chance of a return or a separate kit?

Offline the_lazy_bear

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB 8/21 | Collab Announced
« Reply #139 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 15:07:18 »
Super interested in this! Would it be possible to get more of the novelties in Emperor Cherry Red? :)
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 March 2021, 14:00:36 by the_lazy_bear »

Offline Hollow

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB 8/21 | Collab Announced
« Reply #140 on: Thu, 18 February 2021, 08:38:05 »
Love it! cant wait for your announcement for the collab :D
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 March 2021, 00:00:38 by Hollow »

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #141 on: Sat, 06 March 2021, 21:30:18 »
With all the discussion in the community surrounding the statement from GMK and the issues of unlicensed sets that are infringing on IP's/copyrights, I just wanted to let you know that I'm currently in the process of contacting the right parties. While I did have the GB planned for August, moving forward I would like to do this the legit way so that August date may or may not be correct depending on how stuff plans out with licensors. Hoping for the best! I would love see my dream of this set come to fruition.

Thank you for your support!

Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #142 on: Sat, 06 March 2021, 21:54:13 »
With all the discussion in the community surrounding the statement from GMK and the issues of unlicensed sets that are infringing on IP's/copyrights, I just wanted to let you know that I'm currently in the process of contacting the right parties. While I did have the GB planned for August, moving forward I would like to do this the legit way so that August date may or may not be correct depending on how stuff plans out with licensors. Hoping for the best! I would love see my dream of this set come to fruition.

Thank you for your support!

Thanks for your due diligence! Let's hope we can make it happen.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #143 on: Tue, 09 March 2021, 16:26:10 »
Two new collabs announced. RAMA WORKS and Asero Foundry.

RAMA WORKS renders in.


Asero Foundry in the works.

Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #144 on: Tue, 09 March 2021, 19:13:59 »
Not what I hoped for on the RAMA, but that's cool!

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #145 on: Tue, 09 March 2021, 22:44:26 »
With all the discussion in the community surrounding the statement from GMK and the issues of unlicensed sets that are infringing on IP's/copyrights, I just wanted to let you know that I'm currently in the process of contacting the right parties. While I did have the GB planned for August, moving forward I would like to do this the legit way so that August date may or may not be correct depending on how stuff plans out with licensors. Hoping for the best! I would love see my dream of this set come to fruition.

Thank you for your support!

Hope everything works out, I still really want this set.

Offline dimo

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #146 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 02:53:11 »
rama cap is severely underwhelming/lazy.
but a beautiful set otherwise!! glad it’s running nearer to fall

Offline Oddstag

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #147 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 03:56:16 »
Really looking forward to this set. This RAMA isn't for me though. I don't know if it's the render or what but it looks sort of off. And the design doesn't seem like a good match for the set.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #148 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 09:34:58 »
It seems that the RAMA design has not delivered the effect I was aiming to achieve.

The purpose of the design is supposed to be simple. I didn’t intend for it to come off as lazy.
The idea was how important money and exchanges of coins in the series it’s inspired from, so I felt it would be a great way to display that motif through a gold cap with only engravings like normal coins.

I will be watching over the opinions of the RAMA design and see if a replacement design will be necessary.

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #149 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 10:01:46 »
Same as others.

The rama is not really what I was expecting, the gold seems a bit out of place with the colors of the set (and we did have quite a lot of gold Ramas recently).

I was hoping for something like a vibrant Red Apple (maybe even Red PVD), something similar to the novelty one but with the Rama flair and metal shine.
Or something different ofc, but maybe Gold is not the color.
   

Offline prizeS

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #150 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 10:32:41 »
i feel like the design of the Rama would've been better complimented with alu + infill - maybe red for the apple or something like that.

doesn't feel lazy to me personally, but i agree with the sentiment that it doesn't seem to really suit the set, especially in all brass.
i lub 65% and wkl tkl.

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #151 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 13:44:16 »
Just make the RAMA novelty a gold-plated 6.25u brass spacebar engraved with the seal of the church 5head

Offline Oddstag

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #152 on: Sat, 13 March 2021, 16:22:34 »
Great idea, terrible pitch: UK-ISO in the hiragana base set?

Edit: A red apple novelty on r2 would be great for 40s. A 1u backspace on r2 too as long as I’m hoping.
« Last Edit: Sun, 14 March 2021, 05:15:14 by Oddstag »

Offline JPoc

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #153 on: Sat, 13 March 2021, 21:21:30 »
love Spice & Wolf so really into this set. I think the RAMA resembling a coin is a great idea, tho I think the current design needs to be pushed a bit more to give that impression. Good luck with the set!

Offline dimo

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[IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #154 on: Tue, 16 March 2021, 14:00:35 »
Same as others.

The rama is not really what I was expecting, the gold seems a bit out of place with the colors of the set (and we did have quite a lot of gold Ramas recently).

I was hoping for something like a vibrant Red Apple (maybe even Red PVD), something similar to the novelty one but with the Rama flair and metal shine.
Or something different ofc, but maybe Gold is not the color.
yes this. red

Offline I.Hiyori

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #155 on: Thu, 18 March 2021, 11:09:49 »
Would you consider getting an artisan with the wheat design?

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #156 on: Sun, 21 March 2021, 15:22:32 »
Here's a couple of serious ideas:

  • I maintain my "gold bars with church seal" as before, but apply it to the 2u backspace. Make it look like a real bar of gold.
  • How about Holo's pouch? Base it on the novelty cap, color/plate the base in to copper or rose gold, but make the icon a red infill. That would look so dope.

I still love this set.

Offline Harue

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf | GB August?
« Reply #157 on: Sun, 21 March 2021, 15:39:40 »
Yes

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #158 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 15:43:50 »
Unfortune news.
I was unable to make obtain licensing so the set has been renamed and revised to keep this strictly a fall and harvest themed set. Changes are being made as I would still like this set to run. Sadly, it won't be in its full intended design, but the changes made are minimal as much of the set was originally designed to copy any direct references. Only a few things needed to be changed that were too clear of an influence.

Notable changes are as followed:
Removed the S and W keys from the novelties kit.
The Bountiful Harvest deskmat has been changed ever so slightly, it previously had the head of some wolf or fox like humanoid in the  peeking semi-discreetly in the corner to now not having a head there.
Currently dealing with the Mechfashion sleeve collaboration as the design was based off of something else, I will update once figured out.

Additionally, I will be creating a new IC soon for some switches and stabilizers to match GMK Harvest. Here are the renders. Thank you Pupper for these renders.


Offline dimo

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #159 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 15:44:53 »
: I

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #160 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 15:46:19 »
Additionally. When looking into if GMK Harvest was a name used before, there was a reddit post by u/lovelyblonde. I reached out to them asking if they were still working on their project as I didn't see any other updates. They allowed for me to take that name as they were not continuing to work on that set.

Offline dimo

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[IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #161 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 15:46:29 »
unfortunate but the set is too good to be affected
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 April 2021, 15:51:02 by dimo »

Offline loop | esc lab

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #162 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 15:49:55 »
Controversy aside, I quite dig the colors of this set. Nice and warm. Good luck with IC and GB :)

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #163 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 16:17:07 »
I think some of those removal were not really necessary, but I guess they really want to take absolutely 0 risks.
But it doesn't really affect the set, it still looks great. I'm happy we are still getting some novelties.

Any updates on the Rama? Will the current one stay and maybe another one added? Or will it be replaced entirely?
   

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #164 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 16:26:04 »
I think some of those removal were not really necessary, but I guess they really want to take absolutely 0 risks.
But it doesn't really affect the set, it still looks great. I'm happy we are still getting some novelties.

Any updates on the Rama? Will the current one stay and maybe another one added? Or will it be replaced entirely?

Taking the zero risk route as per vendors request. One thing that may change, could be that we go back to the design of deskmats with the head peeking, but we are currently talking. Overall the feel the set has the same feel luckily.
As for the RAMA I plan to keep it as is. There will be other artisans and metal collabs in the works and if a certain design doesn't suit your fancy, you have options.

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #165 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 22:46:34 »
Too bad about the denial on the license, but set still captures the spirit of the original idea.

Cute looking new switches, though.


Offline //gainsborough

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #166 on: Sat, 03 April 2021, 01:48:37 »
Really unfortunate about the S and W =(  I wonder if you could have added a N and E in the same font and then just said "it's cardinal directions lol"

Still a great looking set, and I'm still in for base + novelties!

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #167 on: Sat, 03 April 2021, 07:24:39 »
Really unfortunate about the S and W =(  I wonder if you could have added a N and E in the same font and then just said "it's cardinal directions lol"

Still a great looking set, and I'm still in for base + novelties!

You know I’m starting to think this “might” work, I’d have to discuss with vendor. Would keep the set the same just an increase in cost to novelty kit. I have actually had a few people suggest this now and I see more people are interested in it.

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #168 on: Sun, 04 April 2021, 02:14:19 »
Are we still targeting an August GB Date?

Offline Inputism

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #169 on: Sun, 04 April 2021, 07:09:50 »
A huge bummer about denial of licensing... was already bad enough they won't give us any announcement for season 3

Offline harvest

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #170 on: Sun, 04 April 2021, 09:56:35 »
Not gonna lie upset you changed the name. I have a set in the making with this name lol, BUT  I love this set and gonna get for sure!

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #171 on: Sun, 04 April 2021, 14:00:17 »
Are we still targeting an August GB Date?

Yes August is still the expected GB date.

Not gonna lie upset you changed the name. I have a set in the making with this name lol, BUT  I love this set and gonna get for sure!


Sorry to hear that. But do note that there already was a project named GMK Harvest that someone previously was working on. I reached out to them seeing if they were continuing the project, and they were fine with me taking use of that name.

A huge bummer about denial of licensing... was already bad enough they won't give us any announcement for season 3

Season 3 :(

Just wanted to also thanks for the support as of lately. I know I was in silence for a little while I was trying to work out the licensing issues, even with the denial, I haven’t lost any motivation and am fully committed to this set.

Cheers!

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #172 on: Sun, 04 April 2021, 17:09:21 »
Are we still targeting an August GB Date?

Yes August is still the expected GB date.

That's good to know. I fell in love with the colors, so as long as you keep them, I'm happy with the changes.
That said, I'll still call it the old set name in private lol

Offline Hollow

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #173 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 01:40:11 »
Unfortune news.
I was unable to make obtain licensing so the set has been renamed and revised to keep this strictly a fall and harvest themed set. Changes are being made as I would still like this set to run. Sadly, it won't be in its full intended design, but the changes made are minimal as much of the set was originally designed to copy any direct references. Only a few things needed to be changed that were too clear of an influence.

Notable changes are as followed:
Removed the S and W keys from the novelties kit.
The Bountiful Harvest deskmat has been changed ever so slightly, it previously had the head of some wolf or fox like humanoid in the  peeking semi-discreetly in the corner to now not having a head there.
Currently dealing with the Mechfashion sleeve collaboration as the design was based off of something else, I will update once figured out.

Additionally, I will be creating a new IC soon for some switches and stabilizers to match GMK Harvest. Here are the renders. Thank you Pupper for these renders.
Show Image
Show Image

Show Image
Show Image


Are you interested in doing a collab with Ikki 68 aurora? They did a collab wtih GMK Devoted in R1 with matching colored case, switches and stabilizers. Its unfortunate that the S and W got removed from the novelties but please bring back peeking fox like humanoid silhouette on the deskmat.

Offline NixieTea

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Re: [IC] GMK Harvest (formerly Wise Wolf) | GB August | Revised Set
« Reply #174 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 23:58:55 »
HOW AM I JUST SEEING THIS?!?!?