Best Anti-Spyware?

[quickcrx702]

.......Also, it's nice to see there are ladies in this industry as well.  I've been in IT professionally since 2000 in a bunch of different companies, and have never physically met a female tech or engineer.  This industry is dominated by weird dudes with no social skills.

Would you care to rephrase? LOL

No.  LOL.

No "except me." At the end?

Trust me, the irony isn't lost on me.  Yes I'm kind of trash talking, but at the same time confirming my own statement.  I'm a weird guy that collects keyboards, buys alcohol and ammunition at the same time, reads really boring technical books for fun, among other unusual hobbies.  When I shoot pool with my friends, we don't wager money, we wager wonder palms AKA iron palm(from the movie Iron Monkey) - the loser has to stand there and get palmed hard as F in the chest.  I also LOVE really bad jokes, like "Q:What's brown and sticky? A: A stick." or "Q:How do you make a plumber cry? A: Murder his family."  Seriously, I haven't met a normal person who doesn't find me unusual.  I'm actually much more of a jerk in real life, but somehow I do it in a way that makes people laugh, so people still somehow like me.

[Leslieann]

The only trouble with security programs that require a lot of user intervention, is that most people are impatient and not very smart.  I've installed various programs that require users to approve or deny applications, and almost always they end up clicking approve without even looking at what the program is, which can be infuriating.  This pretty much defeats the purpose of these programs for anyone but power users. 

I give a bit of on site training for it when In install Winpatrol, which helps. Things will always get through though and no matter what or how good the protection, they will get nailed at some point. You can only put so much protection before it's no longer increasing security at all. Which is why I do the multi-pronged approach.

The adblock alone makes a huge difference, Winpatrol and Avast are just insurance and makes them feel better. And yes, Avira is good, except when i tried it,  it nagged too much to buy the full version.

You're doing it right.  Word of mouth is the most powerful advertising there is.  When people see that you genuinely want to help, and that you don't just see their problems as a chance to capitalize, they tell all of their friends.  Having a good personality also helps, because people like doing business with people they like.  I also do zero advertising, and all of the business owners I work with always tell their other business owner friends.  Also, I charge $125/hr, which is much more than a lot of "tech guys" who usually charge anywhere from $25-$75/hr.  The way you justify the cost is with the quality of your work.  It's apples and oranges out there, and you don't want to compete with the person that charges $25/hr and takes 10 hours to do something that takes you one hour to do, because they are frantically searching google since they have no idea what to do.  The way I look at it is that I would rather have a few profitable customers, instead of tons of customers where I don't make a lot.

I rarely run into other techs at all. It's weird, you would think you would, but you don't. I do get called a lot to clean up their mess though.

I'm a bit above the 25-75 range, but I don't really do "hourly", I charge a set amount to arrive or dial in, and then go to a low hourly. This way I know I'm going to cover my gas, and the customer doesn't panic if things take a while. It works for both of us. I have lost a major contract to one of the bottom feeders. In fact one of the offices, the employees now pool their money to bring me in instead of the person the company pays for, they don't trust him after what the last two guys did.

I don't even understand how some of these guys make money at $25 an hour, unless you are charging for every minute, and charging insane rates for everything you do extra (which will anger the customers).  Many of my clients are 20-50 miles away, with gas prices like they are, a 20 minute job, 20 miles away means you pretty much make nothing.

[MOZ]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

[Turkishrambo]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

[IPT]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

[Turkishrambo]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

[MOZ]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

And you know this how?

[quickcrx702]

Many years of experience on MANY different computers at different client sites.  Maybe they are better now, but for the longest time Norton was a resource hog, interfered with tons of normal line of business programs, and was a real PITA all around.  However if it works for you, and doesn't cause any of your applications to break, then use it.  Virus protection is just a security layer, and none of them protect against user stupidity 100%.  Not going to stupid websites that you know are suspect, and not downloading "free" commercial programs, is the best way to avoid viruses. 

[MOZ]

Agreed, back until about 2010, I too would not have recommended it as I did not use it myself, but for the past couple of years it has been tremendous.

[IPT]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

[quickcrx702]

The adblock alone makes a huge difference, Winpatrol and Avast are just insurance and makes them feel better. And yes, Avira is good, except when i tried it,  it nagged too much to buy the full version.

Yes it does.  But if you tell people up front, they don't mind it as much.  I mostly install Avira on people's personal stuff.  Actually what I have for my managed services clients is the MSP version of Vipre.  I can manage all of the machines under my control with one central interface in GFI Max.

I rarely run into other techs at all. It's weird, you would think you would, but you don't. I do get called a lot to clean up their mess though.

I'm a bit above the 25-75 range, but I don't really do "hourly", I charge a set amount to arrive or dial in, and then go to a low hourly. This way I know I'm going to cover my gas, and the customer doesn't panic if things take a while. It works for both of us. I have lost a major contract to one of the bottom feeders. In fact one of the offices, the employees now pool their money to bring me in instead of the person the company pays for, they don't trust him after what the last two guys did.

I don't even understand how some of these guys make money at $25 an hour, unless you are charging for every minute, and charging insane rates for everything you do extra (which will anger the customers).  Many of my clients are 20-50 miles away, with gas prices like they are, a 20 minute job, 20 miles away means you pretty much make nothing.

Some of my customers that call me only sometimes are hourly, and some of them that call me all the time are on monthly service contracts for a flat fee.  For hourly customers, when people report an issue to me, I tell them upfront how long it will take.  After you've been doing this for a long time you can pretty accurately figure out how long a task would take.  For stuff like virus removal, I only charge for how long I or one of my techs work on the issue, not how long the scan runs - unless they insist I come on site and watch paint dry.  Usually I bill one hour for virus removal, most of the time I can do it remotely, and it only really takes up about 15 minutes of my actual time.  My service contracts range from $250/month for customers that I don't spend more than a couple hours a month on, to $4000/month for ones that call me daily.  Funny thing is that every time I do a rate increase, my business actually goes up.  I think psychologically people think that the company that charges more must be better all around, and they tell their colleagues that "the company I use is expensive but good."  You as the solutions provider just need to meet and exceed that expectation.  Also, I'm only giving out my numbers because you probably work in a different metro area, and for some reason most MSPs like to keep their pricing a secret, so I thought I'd share.  I'm glad you charge what you feel you are worth.  I hate when GOOD people charge really low rates, they cheat themselves and drive everyone's pricing down.

[Turkishrambo]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

How much resources it uses doesnt really matter. Norton just sucks. MSE is not all that good either. Paying for norton is just fail. The best virus removal tools are free.

[tp4tissue]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

How much resources it uses doesnt really matter. Norton just sucks. MSE is not all that good either. Paying for norton is just fail. The best virus removal tools are free.

well, this is not completely true... when they tested the "best virus removal", you notice that the best software that removes more stuff, being more sensitive, ALSO shows more false positives..

So that means, there's a difference in phylosophy... do you shotgun viruses killing some stuff along the way that are just bystanding animals...  or do you snipe...

Overall... antivirus is like wearing an internet condom...  it sorta works, but not 100%..

And reformating your PC is like Abortion...

And Backing up your PC is like signing a prenup when you're getting married.

Pretty much you want to do ALL THOSE THINGS. from time to time.

[IPT]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

How much resources it uses doesnt really matter. Norton just sucks. MSE is not all that good either. Paying for norton is just fail. The best virus removal tools are free.

im sorry, i thought I was talking to someone who's older than 12

[tp4tissue]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

How much resources it uses doesnt really matter. Norton just sucks. MSE is not all that good either. Paying for norton is just fail. The best virus removal tools are free.

im sorry, i thought I was talking to someone who's older than 12

He's right... most newer systems today have more than enough resources to cover the antivirus.. with no perceptible slowdowns.

Paying is fail,  this is true for everything if it WERE possible to get something for free

MSE isn't very good

AND

The best rated tools are technically free.

[Turkishrambo]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

How much resources it uses doesnt really matter. Norton just sucks. MSE is not all that good either. Paying for norton is just fail. The best virus removal tools are free.

im sorry, i thought I was talking to someone who's older than 12

Okay haha

and yeah tp4 i agree with almost everything in your post

[Trent]

Symantec EndPoint Protection for a standard PC/Server (this is not the same as the bloated Norton Antivirus suite)
MSE sometimes
Malware bytes for occasional scan
Linux to avoid it all 

[tp4tissue]

Symantec EndPoint Protection for a standard PC/Server (this is not the same as the bloated Norton Antivirus suite)
MSE sometimes
Malware bytes for occasional scan
Linux to avoid it all 

this is the standard rollout for most mid size IT departments.

Endpoint protection is good stuff..

[IPT]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

How much resources it uses doesnt really matter. Norton just sucks. MSE is not all that good either. Paying for norton is just fail. The best virus removal tools are free.

im sorry, i thought I was talking to someone who's older than 12

He's right... most newer systems today have more than enough resources to cover the antivirus.. with no perceptible slowdowns.

Paying is fail,  this is true for everything if it WERE possible to get something for free

MSE isn't very good

AND

The best rated tools are technically free.

personally I don't pay for my Norton IS IMO. I get the annual Fry's bundle with ghost that's always free after rebate. I then sell off the copy of ghost for 10-20 bucks.
Either way its silly to say Norton sucks and is bloated then argue that performance and system resources usage doesn't matter.
What is it? Norton sucks for being bloated and slowing down computers because of resource hogging or resource hogging doesn't matter?

[UniClown]

Norton's way too intrusive. Popups in the corner all day long. God help your soul if by some chain of events you don't renew your subscription before it runs out.

[Turkishrambo]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

How much resources it uses doesnt really matter. Norton just sucks. MSE is not all that good either. Paying for norton is just fail. The best virus removal tools are free.

im sorry, i thought I was talking to someone who's older than 12

He's right... most newer systems today have more than enough resources to cover the antivirus.. with no perceptible slowdowns.

Paying is fail,  this is true for everything if it WERE possible to get something for free

MSE isn't very good

AND

The best rated tools are technically free.

personally I don't pay for my Norton IS IMO. I get the annual Fry's bundle with ghost that's always free after rebate. I then sell off the copy of ghost for 10-20 bucks.
Either way its silly to say Norton sucks and is bloated then argue that performance and system resources usage doesn't matter.
What is it? Norton sucks for being bloated and slowing down computers because of resource hogging or resource hogging doesn't matter?

I never said it was a resource hog... -_-  In my experience, working in computer repairs and stuff like that, i have grown to not like Norton for multiple reasons.

[Turkishrambo]

Norton 360 works well too, low on resources as compared to the older Norton.

Also, best practice is smart surfing, nothing beats it.

lol norton is terrible.

only for those who follow the herd and don't actually do any reaearch

lol you certain about that?

because i've actually gone and done the research?
look up the reviews and research from comparison sites.
Norton AV uses less resources than MSE.

http://www.antivirusware.com/testing/performance/
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/which-free-antivirus-is-the-lightest-on-system-memory-usage/
http://www.passmark.com/ftp/totalprotectionsuites-apr2012.pdf

How much resources it uses doesnt really matter. Norton just sucks. MSE is not all that good either. Paying for norton is just fail. The best virus removal tools are free.

im sorry, i thought I was talking to someone who's older than 12

He's right... most newer systems today have more than enough resources to cover the antivirus.. with no perceptible slowdowns.

Paying is fail,  this is true for everything if it WERE possible to get something for free

MSE isn't very good

AND

The best rated tools are technically free.

personally I don't pay for my Norton IS IMO. I get the annual Fry's bundle with ghost that's always free after rebate. I then sell off the copy of ghost for 10-20 bucks.
Either way its silly to say Norton sucks and is bloated then argue that performance and system resources usage doesn't matter.
What is it? Norton sucks for being bloated and slowing down computers because of resource hogging or resource hogging doesn't matter?

I never said it was a resource hog... -_-  In my experience, working in computer repairs and stuff like that, i have grown to not like Norton for multiple reasons.

Norton's way too intrusive. Popups in the corner all day long. God help your soul if by some chain of events you don't renew your subscription before it runs out.

Yup.. popups that you can't close so u shove it off to the corner and try to forget about it lol

[Wildcard]

On the signature front AV is around 11% effective against new malware. Sometimes when you're downloading these older files, if they've been out awhile there is a better chance that signatures may detect the presence of malware. Some studies have said that they've found new malware that has brought this number down to as low as 5%. No joke. This is the reason why many companies choose to use a multi-layered security approach. AV detection engines can sometimes identify new malware which adds to their effectiveness. While I think there are many good options out there, I'd search for reviews on good malware detection engines that also include host based IDS. Also, many AV solutions out there do share signatures, so in some ways you're getting equal protection.

[tp4tissue]

On the signature front AV is around 11% effective against new malware. Sometimes when you're downloading these older files, if they've been out awhile there is a better chance that signatures may detect the presence of malware. Some studies have said that they've found new malware that has brought this number down to as low as 5%. No joke. This is the reason why many companies choose to use a multi-layered security approach. AV detection engines can sometimes identify new malware which adds to their effectiveness. While I think there are many good options out there, I'd search for reviews on good malware detection engines that also include host based IDS. Also, many AV solutions out there do share signatures, so in some ways you're getting equal protection.

Um.. stick with banking by mail.. Don't store work related stuff on personal line..  don't e trade with the same line you use for pr0n...

You're good to go.

[Trent]

Symantec EndPoint Protection for a standard PC/Server (this is not the same as the bloated Norton Antivirus suite)
MSE sometimes
Malware bytes for occasional scan
Linux to avoid it all 

this is the standard rollout for most mid size IT departments.

Endpoint protection is good stuff..

I've seen corporations with Panda before, made me giggle.

Endpoint really is great.

Protip: OP you should be using a dedicated Linux system for torrent downloading if you are serious about avoiding viruses.  Get a spare PC, install Ubuntu Server 12.04 (or your favorite Linux flavor), install Deluge and go to the go go.  If a whole other system is not feasible, use a VM and snapshots.  Or do it on a raspberri pi for that matter, thats what I'm setting one of mine up to do (although 10/100 networking kinda stinks).

[quickcrx702]

this is the standard rollout for most mid size IT departments.


Endpoint protection is good stuff..

I've seen corporations with Panda before, made me giggle.


Endpoint really is great.


Protip: OP you should be using a dedicated Linux system for torrent downloading if you are serious about avoiding viruses.  Get a spare PC, install Ubuntu Server 12.04 (or your favorite Linux flavor), install Deluge and go to the go go.  If a whole other system is not feasible, use a VM and snapshots.  Or do it on a raspberri pi for that matter, thats what I'm setting one of mine up to do (although 10/100 networking kinda stinks).

You know what makes me giggle?  Anti-Virus in general.  It reminds me of the TSA, they might catch obvious stuff, but really determined people can still break through.  I've worked with companies that have run pretty much everything from Symantec Endpoint Protection, corporate version of Panda, corporate version of Vipre, Microsoft Foreskin(Forefront), McAfee, and damn near any other commercial product you can think of.  Do you know what they have in common?  NONE of them really protect your users from their own stupidity.  There are always a few idiots that manage to mess things up no matter what you do.  I had one power loser reformat and reinstall Windows to get it out of lock down mode, then wondered why he couldn't get onto domain resources.  Another fun one was a conservative Christian VP that had "Vote the Bible" buttons next to his PC, which was FULL OF GBs and GBs of PORN and was the reason why I had to do virus removal.  People treat their work computers like it's their home PC, so I can only imagine how some people treat PCs at their home.  Some people are idiots, and no amount of protection will help being stupid.  At one point I worked with a guy that wrote his own FUD crypters, and packed/distributed trojans to people just for fun of spying on them - you could scan them all day with any antivirus, and it would come up clean.  I watched him log in to somebody's computer, and change their grocery list to a bunch of sexually explicit objects including anal lube, toys, etc.  He packed the trojans into "free" software that he uploaded to warez sites.  It made me chuckle, not only from what he was doing, but also at how useless antivirus really is.  Smart surfing habits are the best protection there is.

[Trent]

this is the standard rollout for most mid size IT departments.


Endpoint protection is good stuff..

I've seen corporations with Panda before, made me giggle.


Endpoint really is great.


Protip: OP you should be using a dedicated Linux system for torrent downloading if you are serious about avoiding viruses.  Get a spare PC, install Ubuntu Server 12.04 (or your favorite Linux flavor), install Deluge and go to the go go.  If a whole other system is not feasible, use a VM and snapshots.  Or do it on a raspberri pi for that matter, thats what I'm setting one of mine up to do (although 10/100 networking kinda stinks).

You know what makes me giggle?  Anti-Virus in general.  It reminds me of the TSA, they might catch obvious stuff, but really determined people can still break through.  I've worked with companies that have run pretty much everything from Symantec Endpoint Protection, corporate version of Panda, corporate version of Vipre, Microsoft Foreskin(Forefront), McAfee, and damn near any other commercial product you can think of.  Do you know what they have in common?  NONE of them really protect your users from their own stupidity.  There are always a few idiots that manage to mess things up no matter what you do.  I had one power loser reformat and reinstall Windows to get it out of lock down mode, then wondered why he couldn't get onto domain resources.  Another fun one was a conservative Christian VP that had "Vote the Bible" buttons next to his PC, which was FULL OF GBs and GBs of PORN and was the reason why I had to do virus removal.  People treat their work computers like it's their home PC, so I can only imagine how some people treat PCs at their home.  Some people are idiots, and no amount of protection will help being stupid.  At one point I worked with a guy that wrote his own FUD crypters, and packed/distributed trojans to people just for fun of spying on them - you could scan them all day with any antivirus, and it would come up clean.  I watched him log in to somebody's computer, and change their grocery list to a bunch of sexually explicit objects including anal lube, toys, etc.  He packed the trojans into "free" software that he uploaded to warez sites.  It made me chuckle, not only from what he was doing, but also at how useless antivirus really is.  Smart surfing habits are the best protection there is.

Any custom trojans will cut through most AV no problem.  But AV is very helpful in detecting and recognizing viruses, malware and spyware that have common, well known signatures.

[meiosis]

As someone who worked on the Norton Sonar system during my internship I am saddened. I believe we were the first to utilize sandboxing. Well I can't really talk about anything regarding my experience but....

Norton and many other AV's utilize the same databases so you can't say it is inferior.

But like projectD said, prove him wrong.

There was a lot of resource usage, but it was 95% efficient at protecting real-time.

Premium is much better than the free version sadly, if you want to be cheap: McAfee Free uses a good database

Speaking from the other side:

I know AVG is trash, Panda and that Kesper(sky?) were one of the best back in the day.

Honestly nothing will save you from a ring0 rootkit, but hackers who are capable of doing that are already working for AV companies, you have to know both sides of the story to work in the business.

MSE is light resource usage due to the fact they rarely update their database unless you manually allow it to update. (every 3 days a few years ago).

So do as you will, McAfee Free+Komodo+hijackthis = most of what you need.

Manually I debug any connections that seem sketch and sandbox on default.

Tip: Uninstall Java, drive-bys still exist sadly, bad code. =.=

[fohat.digs]

Anti-Virus in general.

The internet truly is Pandora's Box.

For millennia it was a myth, but now it is true. Nothing, except perhaps the harnessing of electricity, has changed the world more than the freeing and dissemination of information planet-wide. We have just begun to see the effects of it.

There have been unfortunate victims, such as the defense of "morality" and copyright protection, but that is hardly more than incidental collateral damage.

We have stepped into a brave and frightening new world.

You youngsters will feel it far more than I will. We have to get used to it - it is not going away.

[Trent]

Honestly nothing will save you from a ring0 rootkit, but hackers who are capable of doing that are already working for AV companies, you have to know both sides of the story to work in the business.

Truth right there.

[Tarzan]

I've been using ESET NOD32 for years now.  Processor light, runs in the background, rules-driven so I can define how to handle detected issues, and effective.  Norton used to be the go-to solution, but it's been bloated beyond all recognition.   Kaspersky almost locked up my entire system, couldn't uninstall it fast enough.