Gaming PC Parts discussion thread.

[tp4tissue]

8K is a massive waste. But its anti-aliasing capacity is impressive.

Old games, 7680x4320 + 8xssaa. Almost 22K, 21722.3 x 12218.8

The screenshot is 8K, gives scale of how many pixels are rendered. Detail you absolutely CAN NOT SEE, especially if the picture is moving. The textures are a hair sharper too, but it's all a blur if it moves. Bottom right is 4K+8xssaa.

[tp4tissue]

Tp4's TV supports 4K 144hz, but it won't support 720p 144hz.

Awesome super design.  Top notch engineering going on here.

[tp4tissue]

Sega rally revo, some guy from 14 years ago, track time, 2:57:25, on a potato 640x480 barely 60fps.

Tp4, 7900xtx, 1000+ fps, track time, 2:59:67.  Losing by 2/3 second per lap, of 3 laps.

Hardware doesn't make you a better g4m3r. 

[tp4tissue]

Interesting, pushing a game through a software sound processor will throttle the game.

Don't think it's cpu related, but it might be.

[tp4tissue]

Ordered a 75" QM7 for the other room, it's on sale right now.

Excited. Haven't watched an LCD in a while. Considered the QM8 65 which is the same price, but can't go back to 65" after 77", which isn't very big at all.

Yes the QM8 has double the brightness and more dimming zones. But based on Tp4's experience with LCDs, brightness is a double edge sword due to leakage.

It's not just dimming zones, because lcds have off axis light leakage, there's gamma lift and color washout. The m0ar super power LEDs you drive behind there, the worse that wash out.


So in reality, even if you don't tonemap exactly to xxxx nits,  LESS will look better most of the time due to the preservation of saturation (color pop).

Hisense in Tp4's opinion does color preservation the best this generation of Tvs outside of Sony, but they're not on sale, so... TCL.

[phinix]

Ordered a 75" QM7 for the other room, it's on sale right now.

Excited. Haven't watched an LCD in a while. Considered the QM8 65 which is the same price, but can't go back to 65" after 77", which isn't very big at all.

Yes the QM8 has double the brightness and more dimming zones. But based on Tp4's experience with LCDs, brightness is a double edge sword due to leakage.

It's not just dimming zones, because lcds have off axis light leakage, there's gamma lift and color washout. The m0ar super power LEDs you drive behind there, the worse that wash out.


So in reality, even if you don't tonemap exactly to xxxx nits,  LESS will look better most of the time due to the preservation of saturation (color pop).

Hisense in Tp4's opinion does color preservation the best this generation of Tvs outside of Sony, but they're not on sale, so... TCL.

You dont like Samsung TVs?

[phinix]

I dont understadn why nowadays people keep recommending high power CPUs for gaming - when you play 4K with decent GPU card, you can run it with i3 CPU and get lets say 60fps, when using i9, you would gain maybe 8fps, but cost is like 5x. I noticed it maybe 5 years ago and keep using 4 core i3, which is fine.

[tp4tissue]

At 4K you can get away with cheaper cpus. But at 1440p games are pushing 120+ now, so faster cpus are definitely necessary.

But AMD cpus are super fast, super ch33p, so it's not really a decision point. 7700 or 7700x is the sweet spot, get these used is really good. They're not really abusable by the end user and they haven't been out that long, so they're safe to buy. 

Motherboard, get gigabyte aorus elite v2. Tp4 can vouch for this board. The MSIs are pretty good too. As long as they have 12phase and up, you can run the 16cores in the future if you decide to upgrade.

[tp4tissue]

You dont like Samsung TVs?

Their lcds are overpriced. TCL/Hisense are the only options.

[Leslieann]

I dont understadn why nowadays people keep recommending high power CPUs for gaming - when you play 4K with decent GPU card, you can run it with i3 CPU and get lets say 60fps, when using i9, you would gain maybe 8fps, but cost is like 5x. I noticed it maybe 5 years ago and keep using 4 core i3, which is fine.

Some games still use heavy CPU.
You also need that CPU to flow enough data for modern GPUs.

I don't think most people need a $500 cpu ($200-$300 should be more than enough in almost any situation), but there are instances where it really does matter, I've seen upper end GPU drag down low end systems while not even gaming just because of how data hungry they can be.

Here's the other side of that...
Okay you have an I3 and a 3080, is it still going to handle a 4080 let alone a 5080? You saved $50-$100 when you bought it but that money is a pittance now compared to what it will cost when you have to upgrade cpu, board and possibly ram. Constantly using that low end stuff means you have to upgrade more often and unlike GPUs, it's not a simple swap and as an entire package can be costly. Yes, you can now buy a used CPU cheap, and if that's your plan, great, but that always carries some risk and you're going to be on old architecture and you still haven't really haven't saved much money at all. $40 to put up with a slow cpu for 2-4 years, nah, I'll just spend it up front and get a better cpu.

[phinix]

At 4K you can get away with cheaper cpus. But at 1440p games are pushing 120+ now, so faster cpus are definitely necessary.

But AMD cpus are super fast, super ch33p, so it's not really a decision point. 7700 or 7700x is the sweet spot, get these used is really good. They're not really abusable by the end user and they haven't been out that long, so they're safe to buy. 

Motherboard, get gigabyte aorus elite v2. Tp4 can vouch for this board. The MSIs are pretty good too. As long as they have 12phase and up, you can run the 16cores in the future if you decide to upgrade.

Price wise if AMD, I would probably go AMD Ryzen 7 5700 max - dont want to spend more than that.
i dont need anything more. All I do is GH forum, watching YT, some photography editing and occasional gaming.

[tp4tissue]

You wouldn't get the 5700 because the B550 motherboards are the same price as B650.

B650 board + 7700/7700x is the only option for ANY-use case.

You can get the 7800x3d if you're Ms.Moneybags like the Leslieann.

The 5700 is a complete dead end. There's absolutely no reason to go lower than 7700.

[tp4tissue]

AMDs seems to have wanted to push $650-700,  Retailers are like, no way, we can't do that, delayed launch.

[tp4tissue]

Woah. Displayport splitters actually work great.

Weird stuff goin' on, The displayport splitter supports 2x HDMI 2.0 output, 4K 60hz @ 10bit. That should exceed the disp1.4 bandwidth. Guess they have some internal leeway in the specs. And it's RGB 444Full, Tp4 double checked with test images. 

[Leslieann]

You can get the 7800x3d if you're Ms.Moneybags like the Leslieann.

Says the guy with how many 4k screens and says 60hz gaming is dead.
I'd bet if you bought 30 less tv/monitors this year you too could also buy a real CPU/GPU. Heck, you might even be able to afford to eat something other than ramen.

[tp4tissue]

9070xt at $600 and 9070 at $500.

IDK.. kinda high. Drop $150 on each would be reasonable. Otherwise, people will just buy Ngreedia. 

[tp4tissue]

might even be able to afford to eat something other than ramen.

Show Image

Tp4 has not eaten ramen for months. He is a noodles addict in recovery, in and out of ramen rehab..

Talking about this is triggering for Tp4, but the doctor says it's good to be aware and always cognizant that addiction is forever, one never escapes it, and so the guard must always be up.

[TomahawkLabs]

might even be able to afford to eat something other than ramen.

Show Image

Tp4 has not eaten ramen for months. He is a noodles addict in recovery, in and out of ramen rehab..

Talking about this is triggering for Tp4, but the doctor says it's good to be aware and always cognizant that addiction is forever, one never escapes it, and so the guard must always be up.

Don't stop now, you've almost caught the dragon. Also, what do you do with all your "outdated" displays? Do you sell them or do you have a warehouse like RTings?

[tp4tissue]

They just go in the basement until there's a use for them.

[phinix]

I wonder if nvidia will release frame generation to 40x and 30x series - then I would not have to sell my 3070 and just stay with it for next year.

[tp4tissue]

Frame generation is just interpolation, your tv can do it.

[TomahawkLabs]

Are we finally getting to the point of GPU computational power that we will start optimizing games/engines vs brute forcing the processing?

[Leslieann]

Frame generation is just interpolation, your tv can do it.

It's the "sports setting" on TVs that gives the soap opera effect when watching anything other than sports.

I'm particularly sensitive to it and I HATE it.

[tp4tissue]

The GPU version of interpolation (frame gen), is much better than the TV's version, but it has limited usefulness.

For non-input-intensive games like Dragon Age Veilguard. It's fine, you can render 72 frames, let it double to 144. This works surprisingly well, and you can crank all the settings up to max.

For games where you care about input latency, frame gen is not a solution, because you're better off turning down the settings so you can get 144hz REAL frames.  You can absolutely feel a difference, it's night and day in terms of responsiveness.

It also doesn't work for slower GPUs, contrary to how it's advertised. The faster the screen pans/moves the more FPS you need to make the frame-gen look right. In any game that can't AT LEAST do 60fps in your target settings/resolution, it doesn't matter if the fps counter says 60fps after framegen doubling, the game plays really choppy, and the visual artifacts greatly increase.

Framegen does not make up for slower gpus. It's a limited tool with a narrow use case.


You can play with it on your 3070 phinix, the internet has patched AMD's FSR 3.1 into Nvidia DLSS supported games, This allows non-DLSS frame gen cards to USE Frame gen. and FSR3.1 actually looks pretty darn good.  Like in Veilguard.

So, any game that supports DLSS can do framegen with the AMD hacks.

[tp4tissue]

So, 5090, relative to a 79xtx will be 47% faster.  So it's 1.1 to 1.23x more $ per frame.

That's not wildly expensive perhaps, but Tp4 were expecting more performance out of the premium product.

[tp4tissue]

Couple days with the QM7 now, Must admit,  Any Fullfield snow/ beach scenes, the OLED just doesn't hit as hard as LCD.

HVA is coming out this or next year, rumored IPS like viewing angle w/ VA level contrast.

If that's true, it could become pretty difficult to sell OLEDs, it's hard even now, LG's losing money and uptake is slow. The B series is just their overstocked panels with software limited drive controls.

Makes sense why Sony has gone back to LCDs on Bravia,  they must know something.

If the viewing angles are honestly just 15 degrees better, There wouldn't be a huge-difference between LCD/Oled in real world use.

One would suspect they wouldn't bother with HVA if it couldn't at least do that much.

You definitely can see color washout on LCD still, but the brightness kind of makes up for it.

Hopefully the new HVA controls that backlight haze a bit better.

[Sniping]

So, 5090, relative to a 79xtx will be 47% faster.  So it's 1.1 to 1.23x more $ per frame.

That's not wildly expensive perhaps, but Tp4 were expecting more performance out of the premium product.

to me it seems a bit overkill for most folks. I've been on the hunt for a ~$600 4080 (4080 super fe looks sweet too but those are uncommon), and looking forward to the 5080 release. I think both are still at a somewhat reasonable pricepoint compared to the 5090, where I feel like the marginal utility is weakening with twice the price tag of the 5080.

in other news, I recently swapped out some parts in my rig but in the process somehow screwed up my riser cable, which took me a minute to figure out since I wasn't getting any video signal, and my ITX motherboard doesn't beep. sadly was bit in the back with SFF again. pcie 4.0 riser on the way, but kinda wish I didn't have to deal with a riser in the first place.

[tp4tissue]

They keep saying raytracing is going to take off. It CAN'T take off until everyone has something that's 4x faster than a 5090.

[tp4tissue]

New Tariff on Taiwan, China's semiconductors.

Ummm.. Tp4 has always had the stance buy m0ar GPUs, but prolly should do it soonish?

[Leslieann]

They keep saying raytracing is going to take off. It CAN'T take off until everyone has something that's 4x faster than a 5090.

It looks... nice(?), but it's so overblown, especially versus the resources it needs.

Only thing I play that can really use it is Cyberpunk and when I disabled it I actually couldn't tell a difference. It took a few times turning it on and off for me to notice the only difference was a reflection in some water. I mean, it did look better, not gonna lie, but did it change my game, nope. My rig can handle it so I left it on, but if it couldn't I really wouldn't care. So kind of neat but seriously the most over-rated tech in a while.

As for the 5090, ray tracing already peaked, it's going to get diminishing returns as you add more and more cores to it. It will use less resources be less of a performance hit but it's already shown it's potential from a user standpoint. It's a developer tool, not really a performance feature, it allows developers to be more lazy and auto generate reflections without having to create them, that's really it. For users, the RT revolution already came and went with a yawn.

[phinix]

Quick question - not gaming PC to be honest, but I'm after a mini PC, like those old intel NUC ones.
I only use it for browsing on living room tv, play movies or youtube, torrent, that's it, so not a power monster needed.
I picked this MSI Cubi 5 12M with i3-1215U, gonna slap in 16GB of ram and some 1TB ssd (for downloading movies etc). Going to pay around £320 for a whole set.
I dont want to spend a lot of money on it, but wanted to ask you guys in case you know of any better configuration than this for same money.
I've seen those AMD Ryzen mini PCs but actual brand is not familar, so dont know if its worth investing in something if company is dodgy. I guess having Ryzen cpu in it, I would get better internal GPU for some simple gaming, but not planning to game on that PC, but just in case I could play like some Sims 4 or similar, it might be advantage

[tp4tissue]

It looks... nice(?), but it's so overblown, especially versus the resources it needs.

Only thing I play that can really use it is Cyberpunk and when I disabled it I actually couldn't tell a difference. It took a few times turning it on and off for me to notice the only difference was a reflection in some water. I mean, it did look better, not gonna lie, but did it change my game, nope. My rig can handle it so I left it on, but if it couldn't I really wouldn't care. So kind of neat but seriously the most over-rated tech in a while.

As for the 5090, ray tracing already peaked, it's going to get diminishing returns as you add more and more cores to it. It will use less resources be less of a performance hit but it's already shown it's potential from a user standpoint. It's a developer tool, not really a performance feature, it allows developers to be more lazy and auto generate reflections without having to create them, that's really it. For users, the RT revolution already came and went with a yawn.

Doom Eternal Raytracing, looks great, runs great.

Cyberpunk Raytracing, looks ok, runs horrible.

[phinix]

It looks... nice(?), but it's so overblown, especially versus the resources it needs.

Only thing I play that can really use it is Cyberpunk and when I disabled it I actually couldn't tell a difference. It took a few times turning it on and off for me to notice the only difference was a reflection in some water. I mean, it did look better, not gonna lie, but did it change my game, nope. My rig can handle it so I left it on, but if it couldn't I really wouldn't care. So kind of neat but seriously the most over-rated tech in a while.

As for the 5090, ray tracing already peaked, it's going to get diminishing returns as you add more and more cores to it. It will use less resources be less of a performance hit but it's already shown it's potential from a user standpoint. It's a developer tool, not really a performance feature, it allows developers to be more lazy and auto generate reflections without having to create them, that's really it. For users, the RT revolution already came and went with a yawn.

Doom Eternal Raytracing, looks great, runs great.

Cyberpunk Raytracing, looks ok, runs horrible.

I need to finally try that new Doom. Never played it.
But there is even newer coming out, like medieval or something?

[tp4tissue]

5080 Benchmarks. Tp4 is a little confused.. Did they forget to release a new card?

[Leslieann]

Quick question - not gaming PC to be honest, but I'm after a mini PC, like those old intel NUC ones.
I only use it for browsing on living room tv, play movies or youtube, torrent, that's it, so not a power monster needed.
I picked this MSI Cubi 5 12M with i3-1215U, gonna slap in 16GB of ram and some 1TB ssd (for downloading movies etc). Going to pay around £320 for a whole set.
I dont want to spend a lot of money on it, but wanted to ask you guys in case you know of any better configuration than this for same money.
I've seen those AMD Ryzen mini PCs but actual brand is not familar, so dont know if its worth investing in something if company is dodgy. I guess having Ryzen cpu in it, I would get better internal GPU for some simple gaming, but not planning to game on that PC, but just in case I could play like some Sims 4 or similar, it might be advantage

These things are decent, I've sold people ones similar to these and while I have heard of them not lasting as long as laptops and desktops I've only personally seen one fail due to a power spike due to faulty wiring in the house (a consumer grade model like you're looking at). My customers liked them, I like them, I have a few of the Lenovo Thinkcentre Tiny and the one one hit by lightning (all of which I got free) the only real problem I have found is when there is a problem there is no parts and they aren't protected as a laptop electrically. The lightning one probably would have survived had it been a laptop or a Lenovo or HP enterprise model.

All of that is why I will say, if you do this, look at the slightly larger enterprise models like Lenovo Thinkcentre Tiny or the equivalent HP (try used?). Both have parts you can get (usually cheap). The other option I would recommend would be a slightly older Lenovo or equivalent HP enterprise grade laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad T or X) and just run it with the lid closed (just disable standby when lid is closed) and stick it someplace safe under your desk or behind your monitor (you can also get docks for these for more ports). You can get all of them for reasonable prices and replacement parts can be had for cheap. The consumer grade may now be getting spare parts but nothing like the enterprise stuff.

Note a lack of Dell, Dell does weird stuff, like odd volted ram, bios issues, etc... You really want HP or Lenovo for enterprise stuff long term or used.

[tp4tissue]

People buying B580s, such a huge mistake.

[tp4tissue]

I need to finally try that new Doom. Never played it.
But there is even newer coming out, like medieval or something?

It runs great on pretty much everything, and even with raytracing turned on you can get 60fps out of it on mid-tier cards..

[tp4tissue]

c

[phinix]

Quick question - not gaming PC to be honest, but I'm after a mini PC, like those old intel NUC ones.
I only use it for browsing on living room tv, play movies or youtube, torrent, that's it, so not a power monster needed.
I picked this MSI Cubi 5 12M with i3-1215U, gonna slap in 16GB of ram and some 1TB ssd (for downloading movies etc). Going to pay around £320 for a whole set.
I dont want to spend a lot of money on it, but wanted to ask you guys in case you know of any better configuration than this for same money.
I've seen those AMD Ryzen mini PCs but actual brand is not familar, so dont know if its worth investing in something if company is dodgy. I guess having Ryzen cpu in it, I would get better internal GPU for some simple gaming, but not planning to game on that PC, but just in case I could play like some Sims 4 or similar, it might be advantage

These things are decent, I've sold people ones similar to these and while I have heard of them not lasting as long as laptops and desktops I've only personally seen one fail due to a power spike due to faulty wiring in the house (a consumer grade model like you're looking at). My customers liked them, I like them, I have a few of the Lenovo Thinkcentre Tiny and the one one hit by lightning (all of which I got free) the only real problem I have found is when there is a problem there is no parts and they aren't protected as a laptop electrically. The lightning one probably would have survived had it been a laptop or a Lenovo or HP enterprise model.

All of that is why I will say, if you do this, look at the slightly larger enterprise models like Lenovo Thinkcentre Tiny or the equivalent HP (try used?). Both have parts you can get (usually cheap). The other option I would recommend would be a slightly older Lenovo or equivalent HP enterprise grade laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad T or X) and just run it with the lid closed (just disable standby when lid is closed) and stick it someplace safe under your desk or behind your monitor (you can also get docks for these for more ports). You can get all of them for reasonable prices and replacement parts can be had for cheap. The consumer grade may now be getting spare parts but nothing like the enterprise stuff.

Note a lack of Dell, Dell does weird stuff, like odd volted ram, bios issues, etc... You really want HP or Lenovo for enterprise stuff long term or used.

Thanks Leslieann, I'll look into those too.

[tp4tissue]

Media PCs should have discreet AMD gpus. No forced DSC.

[tp4tissue]

Want to emphasize. AMD platform has pretty gud' device latency these days. Older chips had more problems if you push audio through software transform.. 

[phinix]

I remember using Telegram app to get notifications for rtx3070.
Do you guys know hot to do it again, now for 50xx series?

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 recommends at least 5080 at msrp if possible. 5070 is going to be soft.

Or 7900xtx, as raytracing still isn't a mature tech.

[phinix]

Tp4 recommends at least 5080 at msrp if possible. 5070 is going to be soft.

Or 7900xtx, as raytracing still isn't a mature tech.

if tp sends some golden coins to phinix, phinix will buy 5080

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 recommends at least 5080 at msrp if possible. 5070 is going to be soft.

Or 7900xtx, as raytracing still isn't a mature tech.

if tp sends some golden coins to phinix, phinix will buy 5080

Let's review the Tp4 GPU savings plan.

Count the number of offspring/ females dining at your socialist (home) cafeteria.

#1 Reduce the calories by 30% because we could all use it.
#2 Switch to Beans and Veggies
#3 Reduce net cooking fuel use by making large batches and freezing them in fixed meal portions.
#4 Turn down the thermalstat to 60 degrees.
#5 Dress warmly
#6 No name brand snacks, crushed Top Ramen + sprinkled seasoning will replace potato chips.
#7 Attempt to make plain bake potatoes with salt/pepper 85% of total calories.
#8 Reassure your consituents that this is for the greater happiness of the family
#9 Buy 5090.

You will achieve 5090 in approximately 3 months.

[phinix]

Tp4 recommends at least 5080 at msrp if possible. 5070 is going to be soft.

Or 7900xtx, as raytracing still isn't a mature tech.

if tp sends some golden coins to phinix, phinix will buy 5080

Let's review the Tp4 GPU savings plan.

Count the number of offspring/ females dining at your socialist (home) cafeteria.

#1 Reduce the calories by 30% because we could all use it.
#2 Switch to Beans and Veggies
#3 Reduce net cooking fuel use by making large batches and freezing them in fixed meal portions.
#4 Turn down the thermalstat to 60 degrees.
#5 Dress warmly
#6 No name brand snacks, crushed Top Ramen + sprinkled seasoning will replace potato chips.
#7 Attempt to make plain bake potatoes with salt/pepper 85% of total calories.
#8 Reassure your consituents that this is for the greater happiness of the family
#9 Buy 5090.

You will achieve 5090 in approximately 3 months.

phinix, being Polish, already incorporated some of those "moves" in his home, but still not enough, plus hard to explain to missus, that phinix needs more frames per second to play Dead Space and kill all those monsters :|

If the rumor will become true - "9070 XT Rumored to Outpace RTX 5070 Ti by Almost 15%" - there is a chance phinix will come over to red side and buys 9070XT.

(not sure it phinix is as good as tp in 3rd person sentences.. )

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 is a minor momentum in the universe, neither first nor third person.

The sentences merely convey this minute energy transfer.

[tp4tissue]

Where do you even get quality Sata cables nemore.

They're all sooooo bad these days.

[phinix]

Where do you even get quality Sata cables nemore.

They're all sooooo bad these days.

Last time I bought SATA cable was back in the days when I was a PC modder, like 10 years ago. I remember last ones were Akasa slim cables, were really nice, thin and lovely color etc
I have not used SATA for 8 years now.

[tp4tissue]

xxhash3 / AMAZING. So fast.....